GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEW ZEALAND. [From the Southern Cross, July 7.] HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. FRIDAY, JUNE 30. Waste Lands Bill.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IX, Issue 944, 19 August 1854, Page 4

GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEW ZEALAND. [From the Southern Cross, July 7.] HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. FRIDAY, JUNE 30. Waste Lands Bill.

Mr. Fitzgerald, in moving that the Wa«te Lands Bill, be now read a second time,. observed that the labonrs of the Ministry were so heavy,that for the future he should, be obliged to confine himself in introducing his measures to a dry statement of the case. He would remind the house, tbit there was no question that wonld be discussed by them, "that, tad been so fully.considered by the colonists'as this. There were two parties included in this, bill, first, the General Government, secondly,; the Provincial Government. So far as be had been able to form an opinion of the wishes. of the settlers, he believed that the great majority, in fact nearly the whole, had manifested an anxious desire that the management of the waste lands should be banded over to the Provincial Councils. A large majority of the members of that house had declared on the hustings, that they would vote for the Provincial Council* 'having tbt management of the waste lands. But from the state of the law, they were not able to .give up the management of the waste landi to the Provinces, as it had been stated on high legal antbority, that a bill transferring the management of 'the waste lan Is to the Provincial 'Councils, would have to be sent home for Her Majesty's approval. If the principle of giving up tbe waste >lands to the provinces, was to be acted on, it was better to do it at once as far as possible, rather than postpone it, for the sake of giving more ample powers, in the end. From his own knowledge be felt convinced, that there was no grievance so great as that of being governed at a distance, and he bad seen many grievances disappear, when large powers of ilocal self-govern-ment had been granted. But ths grievance was ■infinitely greater in connection with the management of tbe land, than with anything else. There has been more maladministration in the land than in any other department. There was only one mode of avoiding 'this, — by making the parties who had the management responsible, and by making them responsible to those who are more immediately interested. It required local knowledge to be able to tay whether the Government were right or wrong, even in laying out a road, choosing reserves tor towns, &c. Responsibility U a distant authority, was in fact no responsibility at all". And these were matters of importance to the every-day life of tbe settlers. Another question was the different state of the land fund throughout tbe Colony. A different system had existed io nearly every province. Tbe settlements had been formed on different plans, and he wished to give fair play to the various system*. (Hear, hear). He would wait to bear why the management of the waste lands should not virtually I>e given to the provinces. He would however remark, that by the 19th clause of the Constitution Act it was not lawful for the Superintendent of any province to make laws for tbe management of the waste lands of the Crown, and by the 62nd clause, tbe Governor was empowered to pay out of the land fund all expense* incurred in their management. They were bound by these two provisions. The principle of the bill was this, that tbe Provincial Councils should agree on the price that Crown land should be *old for, and the mode of 6 ale, the terms for pasturage, &c, &c. t and that the Governor should then empower tbe Superintendent ;to carry out -the views of the Council by selling at the price, and in the manner agreed on by | them. H« proposed that the power should be immediately exercised by the Governor, The ; Superintendent was to appoint officers for the management of waste lands, and to issue Crown grant*. He hoped he had sufficiently explained the object of tbe bill ; lie 4th and sth clauses make valid the old laws, until the period (to be named by proclamation,) when the new law should come in force in tbe various provinces. Drl Monro, would be sorry that the house should silently agree to the bill. He would make one or two remarks on the principle of the measure before the bouse, as that principle had been stated by the hon. member at tbe bead of the Government. He did not think that what had taken place in other places six months ago, should have been alluded to in that house. He believed that the colonist* generally, would not have been so anxious to hate the 'management of the waste land* transferred to the Provincial Councils, had tfiey beea aware that the General Assembly would be sitting at the present time« The feeling at that time was, that if they were to have self-government at all, it must be through the Provincial Council*, but that the General Assembly having been now called, he thought the general feeling amongst tbe settlers, was not for the Provinces having power to make organic laws, but for having power to administer them. He had yet to leara <hat the smallest amount of grumbling was an evidence of the best Government. It was because Provincial interests wete inseparably linked with this question, that he wished to see laws for the management of the waste lands made by the General Government, He wished to see the land administered in all the Provinces on one principle, and "the effect of this bill would be to perpetuate tbe present system of different management in the various. Provinces. This bill proposed in fact, to give the whole control of the waste lands to the. Provinces. It had, indeed, been argued that "three several check* were placed upon tbe Provincial administration ; but be . was unable to find them in the bill. The minimum price of ssi an acre, was no check, it was only pacing tbe waste land, r such as was not worth ss. per acre, under the protection ol that bouse. Although some land would not /etch ss. other land would fetch £5 per acre, so that ii was no hindrance upon the best lands being thrown 'away by the Pro-

vinclal Legislatures. It was highly desirable that the House should consider the position of the colonists in regard to the waste lands ; it would be a fatal error, if the colonists considered them' as their own, instead of feeling that they >ere held only od trust. He conceived that if Parliament could have supposed that at their jfirst meeting they would hand over the waste lands to the Provinces, it would never have given the lands up to the management of the General Assembly. He distrusted Provincial Councils with reference to the management of land. Canterbury and Otago' were religious clais settlements. (No, no.) Decidedly they were so; the first settlers came out to propagate different religious views. (No, no.) He could not see why one uniform system should not be adopted for the disposal of the waste land*. He was opposed to conferring too great power on the .provinces, as there was a great tendency to Provincial independence. He therefore, could not support the bill. Mr. Forsaith wished the hon. member at the head of the Government to adjourn the debate. Mr. Wakefield also wished thesdebate adjourned. Mr. Revaws said if they continued to adjourn' as they had done, the session would never bo at' an end. Mr. Cutten said that the management of tbt' waste land was a most important matter ; he considered they should be under local control. The hon. member for the Waimea (Dr. Monro) hid objected to popular government, and appeared to wish to look round the world to find some' one 1 who was disinterested, to maaage the waste lands of the colony ; it would perhaps have been better !to have entrusted them to the Colonial Office, that office was never interested, and we know how they were managed. The value of the land could only be known to local bodies, and if the General Assembly retained the management, it must be left with the members of the different Provinces who bad local i knowledge. Canterbury and Otago were m fa- ' your of a high price, and having a portion of the j proceeds expended on emigration. The ion. j menrber had also objected to class settlements : 1 Otago was not one, a provision had been toade for educational and religious purposes, bdt be was one of the first purchasers in that settlement, and be was a member of the Church of England. (Hear, hear.) In that settfement they never asked a man what bis religion was ; but sold him the land, and out of the purchase money ss. per acre was set apart for religious services, but even that was no longer desired, as the religious establishment was now wf 11 endowed. The bon. member concluded by stating that be should support the bill. Mr. Wortlet said, the general feeling was, that the waste lands would be better managed by the Provincial Councils than by the General Assembly alone 4 he considered that those who had the management of the wa^te lands should be under double responsibility ; first, to the Provincial, and next to the General Government. The 'General Government could disallow any unfair or partial regulation that any Provincial Council might enact. (Dr. Monro, "" over administration.") This was a check, the Parliament might just as well have distrusted the Graerri Assembly of New Zealand, as that house to distrust the Provincial Councils, the members of which htd been elected by the same constituencies as the members of that bouse had. H« should support the bill. Mr. PicAßD,Bir,l fee* that the«question under discussion is beyond all comparison the most important that can occupy the attention of the house; and it is therefore my intention to vote for the second reading of this bill ; but I shall do so with much doubt, much hesitation, and with very great regret, Such being my feelings on this question, I am sure the gentlemee occupying tbt ministerial bench will not think that, io expressing them, 1 desire in any way to embarrass them, and I must ask for their indulgence, and that of this, house, while I make some general observations on the subject, and endeavour to show some reason for my doubts, some grounds for my hesitation, and why I feel regret. I would remark in (he first place that this is a matter expreisly excepted from the control of the Provincial Councils by the Constitntion Act, and I believe wisely so, I think that removed from local influences, and unaffected by local prejudices and •local interests, it was believed there wbnld be more security for a calm and dispassionate consideration of the subject. I regard, Sir, the waste lands as an almost sacred trust commiitedto the people of this colony : but more especially to myself and every member of this house, to be held not merely for the handful of men who now occupy them, but for the thousands of my fellow subjects, the sons and daughters of toil and misery, who shall hereafter seek in these islands a resting place and a home (hear, bear.) I shall proceed, sir, to state circumstances which may show some grounds for my feelings on tbis question. I, though one of the later settlers in the Province of Nelson, have been compelled to remain a spectator, while a large portion "of the lands in that Province have been squandered and watted: first, by the giant of compensation to their resident hand purchasers, the most valuable lands were taken to pay ,the debts of the New Zealand' Company, without any -contribution to the public funds' of the colony. The next blow was the grant of compensation to their absentee purchasers, though protested against by a large portion of the settlers ;— and lastly comes the land proclamation of Sir George Grey, lowering the price to one-fourth. And what time did be choose for this ? Why, sir, when the Province was flooded with compensation scrip : when every article of production was more than doubled in value, and money in the greatest plenty. Under this proclamation land was sold, not by the acre or the section, but by the mile, and in a great part at a price which, if invested, would produce little more than could be obtained from the lands as an annual payment for pasturage, or for timber licenses (hear, hear). Do I blame, sir, the purchasers of these lands ? Not for a moment ; many ot them,' the most honorable men in the colony, have assured me that they fell the injury which was being done, but had no choice than either to do so, or seethe lands'tield by them for pasturage purchased by others \ but 1 do blame that proclamation; and I say that by it Sir George, Grey dealt a deadly stab to (be fuI ture prosperity of the Nelson Province. " Can bon. members wonder tbat I should feel doubt or hesitation on this question, or desire some security that such lands of the Province as may remain,-—

regarding thtra ai I do ns almost the only source from which we can obtain funds for emigration, for roads,- or for, other public purposes, — should not share a similar fatt (hear, bear). Let me not be mistaken ; I, sirj hive been an advocate for a low price of land, bnt for whom I for the speculator, for those who would allow that land to be unsettled and oseltai for many years? No, i sir* bnt for the men of nerves and sinews, of the 'strong arm, and the stout heart, to turn that soil, Midas-like, into gold (bear, hear.) I, sir, detest the very name of a land speculator. It is my belief rhat the waste wild lands of a colony sbonld be like God's light and God's air*, free for all to share who can use them, subject off course to pocb rales as public order and ' policy may demand (hear, bear). Well, sir, all real) control or power over these waste lamfe, our spe--cial trust, all exercise of the most important privilege confided to this Assembly by the Queen/ and Parliament of England, this Bill calls uponus virtually, to give up to the Provincial Councils* I' desire tp speak of these Councils with all possible respect, bnt still 1 must assert that this* Wouse, having a larger number of members chosenri from the whole colony, possesses powers of legislation superior to any of them, and- I do feel strongly the dangers I- have before adverted to "of local influences, local prejudices, and Joca) interests. With many members of this bouse imJeed r who are members. of the Provincial Councils also,, it will be but a passing of this trnst' s fronv one hand to the other, in tbose Councils they will have the' fullest opportunity of advocating any 'rules or restrictions' they may desire in this master ; but I, sir, am not so fortunate, and this isthe only opportunity which I shall enjoy of expressing my opinion on this question. But, sir r be this ss it may, I cannot see why the laws for regulating the sale of their lands should not beframed by this Assembly, nor why one set of regulations should be in force on one side of these air-drawn lines' which separate Province from Province, and not on the other | and while I cannot entirely agree with the hon. member for the Waitnea as to the great resemblance of the natural features of the whole cslony, I sm convinced that these natural features da not differ more in the various Provinces, than in different parts of the same Province. With great deference, too, to the opinion of the hon. member for Lyttelton, I cannot agree that the local interests of the different Provinces cannot be sufficiently attended to in this Assembly ; for what teason do we sit here from every part ot this colony, but to attend to these local interests ? And the same objection, it appears to me, would apply to every question of importance. I iear greatly that, so far from this measure tending to the union of the Provinces, nothing will tend more to disunite them, to perpetuate local prejudices, tnd to keep alive their jealousies, which I had hoped wwild be buried iv oblivion. Another important consideration to me is this, that if you give up this and other important powers of this Assembly to the Provinces, and thereby make it a mere registry for their acts, you will not induce the men in this colony best qualified to legislate to leave their homes and occupations, for several months in each year, to attend the meeting of this Assembly (hear, bear). Further, sir, it is my belief that had . the people of this Colony known that my hon. friends would have occupied tht ministerial bench in this House, many of them would have come to a different decition on the question; what tbey< desired was the transfer *tf the powers over the Waste lands from an irresponsible General, to responsible Provincial Executives. Whether- my doulttsand hesitation upon this question be causeless or not, I am persuaded that I -do not overrate its importance, that too much time and care cannot be bestowed upon it, and I would earnestly entreat this House, and especially the hon. gentlemen representing tht Government, to consider what amendments or restrictions nay be introduced into the measure when .committed. Lastly, sir, should the future prove my doubts upon this qutsuon to be unfounded, and my hesitation groundless, none will more rejoice than I ; but yet my regret remains, that this first Parliament of New Zealand should have 1 been unable to exercise the most important powers confided to it by their Sovereign. (Cheers.) Mr. Cahgill said,* the Provincial Council of Otago at present consisted of nine members, be considered the Provincial Councils should be enlarged, and the electoral districts remodelled before such great powers were given to these Councils, and ihe members ought to return to their constituencies, in order to give them an opportunity to express their opinion as to how the waste lands should be managed, before the bill was brought into operation. Mr. Glbdhtll was hsppy to support the Bill, he would have supported it bad it been less liberal, 'and he wonld have supported it had it been more liberal; it would do away with the present system of managing' the waste lands, the maogement would change bands, and that was desirable in bis Province (New Plymouth), there was land there which had been reserved tot persons who bsd good connexions at home, and a district had been locked up for twelve months because the Commissioner had put a wrong construction on-one word in his instructions, and he only opened the district 'when compelled to do so by law proceedings" being taken against him. He did not think that any Provincial Council could be got together' who woull misappropriate the waste lands. He WBs in favour, of a low price system ; and if. any one deserved to have land cheap, it was those who formed new settlements. He thought the NewZealand Company's scrip ought to be paid, many parties had been ruined by that Company, and the scrip they held was all the recompense they could obtain after waiting for years. He did not think the settlers would grumble without cause i they had good reason to' grumble in New Plymouth about the way the land had been managed, nine out of ten of the settlers wished the management 'transferred to the Provincial Council. .The members of that Council were as competent to manage jhe waste lands as that House. (Cheers.) ; Mr. Hart wished to inform the hon. member at the head of the Government that, when the bill was in Committee, be would move that the minimum upset price be 10s. per acre. Mr. Weld moved the House do now adjourn till six o'clock.— Carried. Adjourned to Tuesday, 4th instant.