GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEW ZEALAND. [From the New-Zealander, June 24.) HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, June 20. Order of the Day, Address to Governor. Responsible Government. (Concluded from our) last.)

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IX, Issue 940, 5 August 1854, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEW ZEALAND. [From the New-Zealander, June 24.) HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, June 20. Order of the Day, Address to Governor. Responsible Government. (Concluded from our) last.)

Mr. Fitzgerald said — Sir, I shall make very few observations in reply to the long speech which has been delivered hy the honourable gentleman, criticizing the statement of the policy of ihe Government which I made a few days ago. I cannot sympathise in the fear expressed t y the honourable gentleman that (his house is likely to rush into any violent course under the influence of joy at the recent changes. I see no symptoms of such conduct on the part of the house ; stil less can I agree with the honourable gentleman that this house is in the position which lias been described of a young officer in the army or navy raised suddenly to a position of -importance for which he is wholly unfitted, because I do not think this house is unfitted to fulfil the duties with which it is charged. Indeed so singularly inapplicable was the simile to the circumstances and position of this house, that I cannot but think the honourable gentleman really intended, under the type and syrnbf 1 of this house) to express his sense of the incapacity of myself and my colleaguesj (Laughter.) Mr. Wakefeld : I did not mean that : it is quite a mistake. Mr. Fitzgerald : I am quite willing to belieTe that such was not the honourable gentleman's meaning. When I remember the assurance which he uttered a few days ago of the friendly spirit in which he intended to treat the Government, the same assurance which he has repeated just now, I am quite willing to believe that be did not intend bis language to bear the construction I have put upon it. Ido not agree with the honourable gentleman that the present is a proper tims fnr the observations he has made. Such a ctiticisra might have been very proper upon the occasion of the statement of our policy ; but I confess I do not think it was worth while to have set aside a particular day for the purpose of such a general criticism, with no apparent object or result. (Hear, hear.) A great part of the" honourable gentleman's observations were upon matters to which it is hardly worth referring-. And with regard to the rest the difficulty I have in replying to them arises from the fact that they w.ll be sufficiently answered at the proper time by the measures which we shall introduce. (Hear, hear.) I entirely agree in all that has been said as to the unsatisfactory nature of the present provisional arrangements. We have stated our position fairly to the house ; and the honourable gentleman himself said that he would be quite satisfied with such a provisional arrangement as that which exists. (Hear, hear.) All I can say is, we have made the best arrangements we could under the circumstances, and we can do no more. (Hear, hear.) I admit the incongruity of the arrangements respec ing the Upper House, but I canuot create the whole machinery I should wish hy an enchanter's wand. We are doing our best 5 and they must really be accepted unless the whole of the present arrangements are lo be upset. I can only state again what I distinctly staled before that my firm belief i? that as soon as the necessary arrangements are made the members of the Sxecjtive Council will become identical with the heads of Departments, and both responsible Ito this house and to the people. My conviction is that this result will be attained, although not with inconsiderate or indecent haste. (Hear^ hear.) That is what we desire to see accomplished, and more than this I cannot and ought not to say. (Cheers.) I now come to the objections, or rather criticism, which have b?en made on the statement of our policy. The first objection is that it promises too much, that it ouiibt to have been made? in consultation wiih the house. Ido not think it a right or dignified course for any one charged with the duty of performing a policy on the part of the government to go about asking 1 for oD*inion». It is my duty to frame my o*n opinions, if they agree with those of the house I they will be accepted, if not we must resign to 1 others whose opinions are more acceptable. But that one in the position in which I am placer! should go about asking for opinions from members out of the house, I can hardly conceive a more undignified course. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Wakefield : Not out of the house. Mr. Fitzgerald: Why there was no raepting of the house in the meantime, so how could I ! have ascertained opinions except privately. I pass to the next objection, that we propose the General Assembly should not meet until after a year. The hon. gentleman thinks there should be a meetirg in a few months. I must remind him that thf re sre few v.'lio are placed in so favorp.hle a position as he is for legislating. The other members in this house have for the most uaxt

their own private matters lo attend to, and I am persuaded that if the Genera! Assembly were called together at such short intervals arthebon. gentleman proposes, a new danger would arise no less to be dreaded than that to which the hon. gentlemen has alluded, namely that the business of legislation would fall into the hands of the few who could afford to attend its sittings. (Hear, hear.) I do not see why the custom in England of passing the estimates from year to year should be departed from,— namely that the estimates shoul-1 he passed by this house from year to year. Again, with regard to the objection to the law we propose with regard to the Superintendency not being administered by a temporary governor ; I will not go into this question till the proper time shall arrive further than to remark, that ray own position *5 a Superintendent is simply this, that if the bouse considers thst an objection to my present position, I am in their hands. With regard to other questions, the waste lands for instance, I have a difficulty in dealing with the honourable gentleman's remarks, because they will really be answered by the measures themselves ; (hear, hear) ; but I must notice one point in reference to the waste lands. | The hon. gentleman conceives our plan would lead to land jobbing and »peculation ; he s»ys the ss. an acre minimum price we propose would bo a mere farce, and that the land may ns well be given away. In the first place Ido not think the*ss. is a farce for this reason ;—lf; — If yon handed the lands over to the provinces you would have no guarantee for the New Zealand Company's debt, and the bill would beyond doubt be disallowed by the Crown in England. But the hon. gentleman says he is pledged to rote for the ; lowest price proposed by the General Assembly, at the same time be says he would not allow the jrovinces to make laws for the waste lands. Then j if the law of the General Assembly enacted that lands should bl sold for Is. 4d. an acre, and the Provinces could not alter the law, the hon. gentleman would be content that they should be sold at that price. I differ altogether with the bon. gentleman in saying that our plan will not be acceptable to other Provinces than Canterbury, j Canter-bury is the only province where my own peculiar views are not iv question, for we have got dear land there ; and if I wished to force my j own peculiar views, I might be content to let matters alone there } but to Otago, Taranaki, | Nelson, and Wellington, I am certain this power j of legislating, particularly on the subject of Waste Lands, will be most gladly accepted. The hon. gentleman concluded by some brief observations on the subject of steam, the Supreme Court, the Post Office, and by begging that he might postpone any further reply to the remarks of the hon. gentleman until a proper occasion was offered by the introduction of each bill. (Cheers.) Mr. Hart would not trouble the house for many minutes. When be had heard tbe pledge given in that house by the hon. mover of the address, that if one or two gentlemen out of the house should be called to the Executive Council to conduct the business of the Government in the house, they should receive his earnest support, he (Mr. Hart) did not anticipate such a criticism as they had that rooming heard. He did not expect to hear every possible seam ripped up. Eor his own part, he understood the pledges given, and by which the house was bound in a different sense, and to be performed in a heartier spirit j and if he had seen any defect in the Government scheme, he would rather have given his advice in the way of private suggestion. But for a prepossession on his mind to the contrary, the speech they had heard would have led him to infer, that although they had secured a great Loon, yet as far as the ministry was concerned, it was in form unsatisfactory, in its nature temporary, and in its policy defective ; and this from one who was pledged to support it. He (Mr. Hart) would not have considered it to be his duty so to expose sores which tbe lapse of a few days would have healed. (Hear, hear.) v Mr. Bartley was by no means overwhelmed by the magnitude of the concession made by the Officer Administering the Government ; the house had asked manfully what they thought they were entitled to receive — and it had been granted. The hon. member commented upon various points of the questions that had been raised ; and especially with reference to appointing Law Officers of the Crown from members of tbe inferior branch of the legal profession. Remarks bad been passed respecting no Northern member having been included in the new ministry ; and as he had himself been personally alluded to, he begged to state that he would have been exceedingly reluctant to have taken office, and be was satisfied with what had been done. The address had his full concurrence. The Officer Administering the Government had done his duty : and he hoped that this house and tbe ministry would do theirs. Mr. SEWELtwas led to suppose the member for Wellington (Mr. Hari) had a little misunderstood the member for the Hutt. With reference to his own personal relatious with that hon. gentleman, he would not soy thst that description was correct of his being his alter ego. His opinions had been mainly formed in tbe school of bis hon. fr'end, whom he looked upon as a disciple would upon a master, and besides he entertained a strong personal regard for him ; — these feelings lie was sure were reciprocal, and would be extended to his colleagues. He could not for these reasons accept the reading given by the hon. member for Wellington to the speech of his hon. friend ; at the same time he was hound to say, that he had observed with regret a certain undertone of discontent and dissatisfaction pervading that speech. That dissatisfaction appeared to refer to three points. First the manner in which the formation of tbe government had been brought ahout. In that he had taken no part ; but nothing had occurred in the arrangements which could imply blame or reproach to any parties. The position of all parties was a novel, a difficult one ; and v/bat tbey had to do, was to accept the case as it stood, and make the best of it. His hon. friend, the member for Lyitelton, had asked him to assist in forming a government, and he had consented to do so, relying upon the assurance of this bouse for support. Another subject of apparent dissatisfaction to the hou. member for the Hutt, wts the personal position of those forming the ministry ; that it ,was temporary and precarious. No doubt it was so. The member for Lyttelton was the Superintendent of one of the Provinces, and his relations with that Province -were at present fixed ; he had avqwed thai from the beginning. With regard to himself, the hon.

member for Auckland had spoken of him very kindly, and had advanced reasons with reference to the Law Officer of the Crown being filled by members of the inferior branch of the profession, leading to an opposite conclusion from his own. The hon. member here entered at length into explanations of his reasons for dissent, declariog that the offices should be held out as a temptation to induce a stream of the highest quality of law from England. But irrespective of his objec r tions to these offices being filled by members of the inferior branch, his own engagements, which would necessitate his return to England, were a grave objection. These were the defects of an impromptu Government. He regretted that there should be no gentleman in the Government absolutely identified with Auckland. He roust however, notice the fact that the Attorney General might be considered as holding the position of representing Auckland. (Hear, bear, hear, with an almost inaudible *• No.") With reference to that gentleman there might have keen a little overstatement as to his being prepared immediately to identify himself with the new governm? ut ; — that no doubt arose from a misunderstanding; at the same time he was bound to say that nothing could be more courteous or friendly in co-opera-tion than that gentleman's conduct with reference to the government, through difficult and somewhat trying circumstances. He did not mean to say that the present state of things was the most absolutely desirable, hot they must do the best they could for the prestnt. Wilh respect to the policy of tbe Government, he looked upon the remarks of the member for the Hutt as made in a spirit of friendly counsel, and, looking at them so, he was sure that he and his colleagues would be grateful to tbe boose tot all suggestions made in that spirit. He did not know in what way his hon. friend would have tbe policy of the Government plactd before tbe house [Mr. Wakefield,, " By resolutions."] His hon. friend spoke of resolutions ; but resolutions only affirmed a prin* ciple ; be thought it better to embody propo»ed measures in the form of bills, which indicated their precise practical working form. It was not meant by that to put measures cut and dried, as if to say to the house, you must take them or leave them ; tbe object was to produce them in the best shape, and they would be grateful for assistance from all quarters, in what would be a very difficult and responsible task. Another objection was that the Government policy was too comprehensive, — that it undertook too much and too many subjects. If so, it must be inadvertently. The inconvenience of the present state of things was fully admitted ; and their business was only to deal rith matters of pressing importance. They had determined to defer many subjects } and in others yet unripe for legislation, they proposed to initiate inquiries. It had been objected that the Committees had been left without regulation or order. There might be grounds for that remark, but he trusted the house would obtain valuable information through them, and considered it very desirable to reduce their proceeding into order ; he could, therefore, have wished that his hon. friend would have undertaken tbe generalship of them. By means of Committees, they had placed many subjects in the train for inquiry, and should have to propose otheis in detail. As to the objection that the Government were precipitating measures, he would ask, were they prepared to defer dealing with Steam — to remit the Executive Government Bill to another session — or the Waste Lands Bill — or the question of local reserves — or the adjustment of General and Provincial powers. All the questions of finance were of immediate necessity. Then as to the purchasing of lands from tbe natives, were they to stave off that measure for another session, raising up the cry against the Crown's pre-emptive right? The whole progress of the Northern Provinces depended on that question. The Government considered it their duty to deal with these subjects notwithstanding the difficulties of their position, and for enabling them to meet such difficulties they relied on tbe cordial assurances of support which they had received. [The hon. member resumed bis seat amidst repeated cheers.] Mr. Hart said, that after what the hon.. member (Mr. Sewell) bad said about the observations of the bon. member for the Hult (Mr. Wakefield) he saw that he had put a construction on those criticisms which did not agree with that of some whom they more immediately affected ; and he therefore wished to ackowledge that mistaken assumption on his part. Mr. ForsaitH said, the position he had taken, and the sentiments he had expressed on tbe day when the hon. member for Lyttelton laid the exposition of his intended policy before tbe house, would have exempted him (Mr. F.) from the responsibility of saying anything on the present occasion, and it had been bis purpose to sit a silent listener to the present debate. This purpose he should have adhered to had it not been for tbe marked allusioD to himself made by the honourable member who moved the present question. The honourable member said that he (Mr.F.) bad offered but one objection to the introduction of ministerial responsibility — a legal objection — but be must be allowed to tell tbe hon. member that this was a great mistake. He did not intend to recapitulate tbe objections he had urged, but just to convince the hoa. member of his assertion,, lie would but request him to carry back his memory, and recall those apprehensions with which his own mind bad been vividly impressed some few months before. In a letter to the editor of tbe Sydney Morning Herald, the hon. member had dwelt, in anticipation, upon tbe difficulties and dangers that would attend the introduction of the new Constitution. He bad expressed his apprehensions of the consequences that might arise out of the operation of this house — the danger of one portion of its members being guilty of injustice tow-jrds another. He seemed to consider tin's risk so imminent that it coulil only be averted by a course of conduct, which he admitted would be "a political rarity," — "absolute justice from thestronger in their relation to the weaker party." It now appeared that the honourable member's apprehensions bad assumed a more potential character ; he had that morning invested them with a more substantive form ; for now that the step had been tukon which the honourable member seemed formerly to regard as the only remedy against his dreaded anticipations — now that ministerial responsibility has been introduced, the honourable member tells U9 that he is filled with consternation. (Hear, hear.) Tbe hon. member, it is true, did not explain the exact nature and dimensions of bis new consternation, but he (Mr. F.) thought it might be assumed that Ms

consternation was akin to that of Frankenstein," when the result of his occult labours suddenly started up before him. (Laughter and cheers.) Now he (Mr. F.) did not believe in political miracles. He had entertained apprehensions similar to those of the honourable member, and it was because be did not wish to run the risk of failing to see a realization of that " political rarity, absolute jostice from the majority in their relations to the minority," that he had objected to the introduction, without proper precaution, of ministerial responsibility. Hating disposed of the personal portion of the snbjecf, be would beg permission, before resuming bis seat, to offer one or .two brief remarks upon the general question. The bon. merrber for the Holt, by the course he bad taken that morning, bad placed himself in • very- anomalous position. His position was so doubtful, that be (Mr. F.) could hardly determine whether, the house had decided on regarding the honourable member as an object deserving the censure or the corn passion 'of tbe house. (Hear, hear.) He, (Mr. F.) thought that it would be necessary to view the boo. member's position under hoth these aspects. The honourable mem-, ber for Wellington (Mr. Hart) had already taken the former view, and bad adminiitered rather a cutting reproof, and he (Mr, F.) must confess that the justice of the rebnke could not be altogether denied, without banishing from his mem« ory the reiterated assurances which,' in the course of tbe former debate bad been given by jht hon. member for the Hutt himaelf, as well as by oth r bon. members, that tbe measures of the ministry — whoever tbe men forming the ministry might be — should be received with the utmost candour and confidence. (Hear, bear.) The reproof of the hon. member for Wellington had, however, been sufficiently caustic, and th«r«fore he (Mr. F.) should not enlarge upon the topic. In fact, he considered the hon. member for the Halt to stand in quite as much, if not more need of compassion than reproach. (Laughter.) The hon. member for Christchurch (Mr. Sewsll) tbe Solicitor-General ** in estt "— Mr. Sewelx.. — " In posse." Mr. Forsaith. — "Well, the Solicitor-General | "in posse " has told us that be is comparatively a novice in political science — that he has not given much attention to political subjects until within tbe last three or four years — and that his knowledge, such as it is, has been principally derived from tbe hon. member for tbe Hutt, whom he regards as his teacher and master (Laughter.) Now he (Mr. F.) considered it to be a fact that could not be controverted, tbat the hoa. member for the Hutt had been tbe principal instrument in effecting the recent change* (Hear, hear.) Seting aside the question of the expediency of the introduction of responsible government, he believed that its introduction was mainly attributable to tbe labour and tbe akill of tbe kon. member /or tbe Hutt ; and if it were true that the ministry, or at least one important member of it, was merely a disciple of the principal agent in the change, surely the master — tbe hon. member for the Hutt — stood in need of the sympathy and compassion of the bouse, for it was evident that he bad not been treated with tbe deference and respect which bis position entitled him to expect. (Hear, hear.) This was not the only fault the new ministry bad committed. They bad undoubtedly been guilty of another political blunder. Indeed the bon. member for Lyttelion, who might perhaps be designated the premier, bad indirectly admitted the factMr. Fitzgerald, — No, no. Mr. Forsaith— He (Mr. F.) would proceed to show how the fact bad been indirectly admitted. (Hear, hear.) When tbe hon. member for Lyttelton made his statement to tbe house be carefully abstained from making any allusion to tbe" A.B. " blunder, and by thus glossing over tbe fact that the introduction of A.B. into the Cabinet had been contemplattJ^'-tbe blunder was indirectly admitted. He (Mr. F.) had, at tbe time, admired the sagacity and prudence with which the hon, member got over this blunder, by not attempting to explain a step that admitted of no explanation (hear, hear.) Recurring, however, to tbe general question, and to the position which he (Mr. F.) intended to take, be would merely remind the house of the pledge be had already given ; that when the measures which had been exhibited or hinted at in the exposition of the bon. member for Lyttelton, came in detail belore the bouse, he would support the good and oppose the bad (bear, bear.) Mr. Seweli said he had not spoken of the hou. member for the Hutt (Mr. Wakefield) as his master ff — he meant that be belonged to tbat school (Langhter.) Mr. Ludlam said — The hon. member for the Hutt had declared the opinion of the Wellington members to be tbat the General Government should make laws, and that the Provincial Governments should manage the Waste Lands. His own opinion was that the General Government should make organic laws, and that the provinces should be left at liberty to legislate further on local land questions. With respect to inefficient surveys, the Surveying Staff of Wellington was hardly to be blamed, as the New Zealand Company's surveys had to be made ovei again. - He felt bound to support tbe Government as fai as bis opinions would allow him* (Cheers.) Mr. Picard said be was very far from being surprised at any omissioa in tbe speech of the hon. gentleman at the head of the government, or disposed to cavil at what he might deem imperfections in tbe scheme of policy which be had submitted to the house ; for to bave laid a settled, well-digested, and complete scheme of policy before the house in the time allotted for the purpose, would have required superhuman energy, and superhuman talent. Whatever support it might be in his power to give to the lion, gentleman and his colleagues, representing the Executive in th) 9 house, without tbe abandonment of settled politick opinions, he would most cordially tender them ', and the more so because he wa? about, as the present appeared a filling opportunity for doing so, to notice one or two subjects on whirh be differed in some degree from the hon. gentleman, and also to make some observations on one or two other matters which had been mentioned in the course of this debate. Ou the first subject, that of Emigration, tbe bon. member for Lyttehon had held out no hope that any general measure is in contemplation, ,bui he (Mr. P.) trusted that this may not be the final decision of the government on the suhjeci. He regarded Emigration as of vital importance to tbat Province of which he was one of the representatives ; they had mines of copper in that Province, but they cannot be worked for want oi

labour ; coal mines, but they are standing still for want of labour ; even there had been the greyest difficulty in expending the monies voted by the Provincial Council for the repair of the roads, for vrant of labour ; and nearly one thousand less acres of wheat were gTown in the province of Nelson in the last year than in that preceding, mainly from want of labour. (Hear, hear.) His fixed opinion was that if ever this Colony is to obtain the supply of labour that it needs, n tnnst be effected by appointing agents in the mother country for the purpose of promoting Emigration, that a scheme supported by the general government, would have great advantages overany which could be adopted by the separate Provinces, and that it would be possible to devise such a scheme without doing injustice to the claims of any particular Province. For these reasons he hoped that the hon. gentlemen forming the ministry would take this Bubject into, further consideration. Education had been mentioned by the hon. gentleman at the bead of the government as essentially a Provincial question ; but in this opinion he could not agree. He believed that a scheme for promoting education in this Colony on a general plan, 1 might be adopted without undue interference with Provincial legislation, and that lome such measure is greatly needed. In hie own neighbourhood were many men for whom be had the highest respect, unable to obtain education for thfir children, though most desirous to do so j although they have erected a schoolhouse, they have been unable "to induce any schoolmaster to settle amongst them. He was acquainted with the difficulties which bad arisen on the discussion of this question at home and which might also attend it -here, but he believed i they might be overcome, and he asked the government to reconsider this matter also. With regard to the observations which had fallen from the hon. member for the Hult, as to the propriety of this bouse being called together again it a very early period, he (Mr. P.) could not agrea with them, though fnlly alive to the importance of the reasons he had stated. He must remind the hon. gentleman that members had other duties besides legislative ones to attend to. From the opiniou stated by the hon. member for Christchurch that the highes* offices connected with the profession of which be (Mr. P.) was a member, should be reserved for members of the higher branch of that profession at home, be was compelled to dissent, not from its effect on any views of hi» own, but because be thought that those offices should be open to the talents and exertions of their children who may adopt that profession in this Colony, and he should regret if »uch a precedent should be established by the government in this matter. (Hear, bear.) Lastly be wished once more to tender his support to the hon. gentlemen the member for Lyttehon and his colleagues representing the government in that bouse. (Cheers). Mr. WrrD said that, after the very courteous manner in which his honourable friend the member for Motueka had offered every fair support to the Government, he should ill repay that good feeling and courtesy, did he not at once candid' y state to him the position in which his honourable colleagues and himself were placed in respect to the two important subjects he had •lluded to ; and which had been but lightly touched upon in the opening statement of his honourable friend the member for Lyttelton, only because of the press of business, and the brief space of time they had since they entered on their duties for consideration of other important questions. They fully admitted the obvious advantages of emigration, on a large and extended scale; and, if they could see their way to give greater effect to the efforts of the Provinces, by superadding some general machinery, which without impeding their efiorts might give them greater efficiency and unision, that course, he thought, would be the proper one to pursue; but, he was suie the hon. member would see that any premature or ill-considered scheme would have the effect of discomposing those arrangements which have been already made by several of the Provinces, without securing any commensurate advantages in return. With regard to the second question of his honourable friend, he could assure him, that if the subject of education was but lightly touched upon by the hon. member for Lyttelton, it wa» not because that subject was underrated by the Government, on the contrary, it was the magnitude of that subject, a subject on which the future of this Colony, in great part depends,, (hear, hear) that prevented his honourable friend from doing more than alluding to it in his statement of policy. (Hear, hear.) It would, he was sure, be most undesirable that a question of such moment should be hastily dealt with. The various topics of discussion raised that day by his honourable friend, the member for the Hutt, had been already so fully sifted, that it would be unnecessary for him to enter into them at length, but, before he sat down, he should wish to make one or two observations upon what had fallen from that honourable member. He had cautioned them against undertaking too much and reminded them that they were but a provisional gorerninent. He could hare wished that in asserting the necessity of confining their immediate legislation to objects of pressing importance, he had not limited himself to the enunciation of what was admitted as a truism, but had carried his criticism to the practical test of pointing out to the house the particular measures he wished to hare postponed. (Hear, hear.) But there vras one piece of advice offered by the honourable member for the Hutt, that he (Mr. Weld) could not pass over without comment ; he had advised them to seek counsel and assistance in preparing their measures from the various non-official members of that house. They would be always ready to receive in a friendly spirit suggestions made to them in that house ; but, with his honourable friend the head of the Executive in that house, he totally dissented from the honourable member for the Hutt,— as to the duties of the members of the Government. It was not, in his opinion, their duty to ascertain by any indirect means, whether their measures would or would not be acceptable to that house, it was not their duty to feel their way by consultations with this or that member, who might be supposed to command the respect of this or that subdivision of the house, — that would be shifting the responsibility ; they must lay their measures before that house, and stand or fall by the result. To his mind the course proposed by the honourable member for the Hutt, would be government by out of door committees, government by clique, — anything but Responsible Government. The honourable member for the Hutt had alludfd to what fell from the honourable member for Lyttelton, on the practical financial effect of natives re-purchasing lands from the Crown, as if some scheme for demoralizing the natives, by inducing them to speculate in land, were in the contemplation of the Government. Mr. Wakefield : no, no. Mr. Weld : then he was really at a loss to understand the hon. member's objection. Surely he would not prohibit natives from purchasing lands of the Crown T Mr. Wakefiei.d » certainly not. Mr. Weld : the only remaining point he would touch upon was that iaibed in reference to the Waste Lands Bil'. He believed that the Provinces without exception, desire that the disposal of the Waste Lands should be handed over to them ; he held a petition from the Provincial Council of Nelson to that effect ; and he believed such a desire was almost universal in the colony, and was largely represented in that house. (Hear,, hear.) But not only the Constitution Act, but ' also he believed the welfare of, the colony, demanded that a strong, general, controlling power should remain vested in the General Government, and in that house, he believed, although the hon. member for the Hutt appeared to think ditterently, it would be fouud when the Waste Land's Bill came under discussion, that the measure met that requirement and was not un-

worthy of the consideration of that honourable house_ (Cheers.) Mr. Gledhill would, at this advanced stage of thedebate, only trouble the house with one idea in support of a statement which fell from the hon. member for the Hutt in reference to land jobbing with the nativeswhen they were once allowed to sell their lands as individuals. He thought that if the Bill which was to be laid before the house for the disposal of the waste lands was to become a law, there ought to be some stringent clause introduced upon the subject; if there were nothe was afraid there would be an opening left for tampering with the native owners 5 and this would naturally increase the difficulties which were already found to exist. In the district of Taranaki a block of land hadbeen bought of the natives for a certain sum of money. Those natives were to give one thousand pounds for two thousand acres, which were to be taken in two slicesthrough the block, including sandy beach, fern land, and forest land ; in other words, they were to take good and indifferent land. Prior ' to the selection of" the land, a gentleman, learning what native it was who had a right to the first choice of selection, made him an offer of nearly three pounds per acre for a considerable quantity if he would select a certain locality; but to accept this tempting offer, the native must needs repudiate the first arrangement, which he did, so as to secure the high price tendered him. Care should therefore be taken, if it were possible, to prevent partiesinterfering with the arrangements of the Crowfc withthe natives. When the selections were actually made by the natives, the boundaries of the allotments defined, and the Crown grants issued, then there could be no objection to any party buying their land ; for he thought the difficulties which were always found to exist in the way of purchasing the aboriginal's land were in themselves sufficiently numerous and great, and the whitepeople should not add to them or increase them in any way. (Hear, hear ) Mr Porter hoped a committee would be formed to take evidence before the matter was finally brought before the house, and the question settled as to how the Crown lands should be managed. Mr. Fitzgerald thought no committee could obtain further information than what was generally known. Mr. Warbfield said — As there is no amendment I hardly know whether it is quite proper for me to reply, but at any rate, if the house will indulge me, I shall trouble them for the sole purpose of correcting some misapprehensions. In comparing this house to the elated captain, I did not suppose that we might resemble him in his ignorance, but only in elation of mind and consequent over-confidence. I thought that the house, after effecting so startling a revolution as the sudden change from bureaucracy to democracy, might easily think too highly of itself. The hon. member (Mr. Forsaith) is mistaken in supposing that I am frightened at that enormous change. It is no Frankenstein to me ; and if it were, as he does me the honour to say, a child of mine, I should glory in it. (Cheers ) All I meant to say, is that so immense a change coming so suddenly, and so unexpectedly to most of us, makes subsequent caution highly necessary. (Hear, hear.) As my hon. friend (Mr. Hart) has been so good as to withdraw his remarks, I will not notice them, except for the purpose of assuring the hon. member (Mr. Forsaith) that I did not feel those remarks as "caustic." My hon. friend and I differ in opinion ; he 'thinks that silence would have best become me ; that I ought to have kept quiet to day; I think otherwise ; and he was fully entitled to express his difference of opinion with me. I did not feel that he did so in a caustic manner. Let me now assure the hon, and learned member (Mr. Bartley) that I did not imagine the contingency of his being called on, as seconder of the Address, to become a member of the Executive Council. I only supposed that if he had seconded the Address he would hare been brought into confidential communication with his Excellency, to give his opinion about the formation of such a government as would be likely to enjoy the confidence of the houae. I "was only explaining my own opinion that, instead, of calling ontwo members of antagonistic political views to form a government themselves, it would have been better if only advice about forming a government had been desired by his Excellency ; and that for giving such adyice the hon. and learned gentleman is highly qualified by the respect and confidence with which he is regarded in this part of the colony. (Cheers.) On another point, I would just observe, that the suggestion that a certain meeting should come to an opinion about one A.8., did not come from us, but was really made to us. (Hear.) I am very glad to remark that my hon friend's (Mr. Sewell's) long intimacy with me has enabled him to interpret aright the spirit in which my remarks on the composition and policy of the Government were uttered. With regard to the expression "too much" which fell from me, I referred rather to time than quantity ; to the gestation of only forty eight hours. Mr. Sewell — A week. Mr. Wakeficld — Well, suppose it were a week ; but I meant the time since they were sworn in. I meant only that three members, having to form a general policy for the decision of the house — three members not better known to us than many others — should have taken more time to consult with the house, and should not have merely laid before us their own policy, without knowing whether or not it would be agreeable to the house. The hon. member (Mr. Forsaith) says that I have laid myself open to " censure or compassion." Ido not feel that at all ; but as to censure for having done what may be injurious to the Government, I venture to remark, that the hon. member's own conduct, in saying that my hon. friend (Mr. Sewell) has no will or judgment of his own, is about as much calculated to damage the Government as anything I can imagine. (Cheers.) The real truth is that our relative position is one of independence of mind for both of us, which fully admits i>f our having different opinions, though I am sure that in most things we shall cordially agree. (Hear, hear.) Addressing my hon. colleague from the Hutt (Mr. Ludlam) 1 must earnestly assure him that I had no intention to cast the slightest reflection on the Wellington Commissioner of Crown Lands, whom I hold to be perfectly blameless in the matter. But I am sure he also will acknowledge that the Company deserves no blame for the present state of surveys at Wellington. (Hear, from Mr. Ludlam.) I alluded more especially to the Wairarapa, with which the Company never had any concern ; and with regard to Mr. Bell, I thought no more of blaming him th^n of blaming another Wellington Commissioner of Crown Lands, who has been left in a waste district 200 miles from any protection, with positive orders to receive on the spot all money paid for land (and the amount may be immense) but with no place of safe custody for it except an iron, box, which has been already broken open by thieves, though by good luck it happened to be empty — another sample of that Augean stable of Crown Lands' management which needs to be swept clean. • (Hear, hear.) Turning to my hon. friend (Mr. Weld) I beg leave to assure him that he is quite mistaken if he thinks 1 want Ministers to shift their responsibility upon the house. I should be among the last to propose anything of the sort. What 1 intended to say is, that, tinder the very peculiar circumstances of a Provincial Government, the Ministers ought rather to devise means of ascertaining the opinions of the house, than lay their own before us in a cut and dried shape. I think even that time would be saved by that course, as it would if members of the Government took a lead in the enquiries of Select Committees. In this way, after sufficient consideration, every Bill would ultimately be proposed on the responsibility of ministers. 1 think that there is no other point which much requires any notice by me ; but I will not sit down without assuring the house that the most true interpretation of my motives in addressing them.is that of my hon friend (Mr. Sewell) and the most incorrect that of my hon. and learned friend (Mr. Hart) . Sir I have laid open all these subjects for discussion even in the streets ; and I cannot believe that any thing but good will ever result from free discussion. The motion was then put and carried unanimously. Mr Wakefield then moved and Mr. Crompton seconded that the Address be presented to his Excellency by the Speaker and a deputation of as many members as might choose to accompany him. Agreed to. The house adjourned till Wednesday at 5 p.m.