PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Friday, February 3,1854. The Council met again at 7 o'clock.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IX, Issue 890, 11 February 1854, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Friday, February 3, 1854. The Council met again at 7 o'clock.

•" steSam communication. The house' went into Committee of Supply, on the Prov. Seeretaiy's motion, as follows : That in the event of the Executive being enabled to make arrangements respecting Steam Communication with the others-Provinces, or other neighbouring Colonies, in accordance with a recommendation made by this House to his Honor, this Council sanctions the expenditure of a sum of money not exceeding Two thousand pounds.

STEAM GRANT. The Puov. Skcretary explained that, as an opinion had already been expressed by the Council in favour of this object, the resolution was intended to give practicability to that opinion, and to enable the Government to effect, if possible and expedient, an union with other provinces, as Auckland and Nelson, which had agreed to similar votes. Mr. Wakefield drew attention to the fact that the Auckland Council had voted a grant specially to induce one of the companies running steamers between Panama and Australia to touch at Auckland. He regretted that this Council could not take means to meet present circumstauces, by inducing one of those companies to let the>r vessels touch here. This was' a most vital question for Wellington. If the steamers between Panama and Melbourne were to touch here, Wellington would at once enjoy all the advantages of its naturally central position with regard to these islands, and it would become the real, as it is the natural seat of government. The question would be set at rest by bringing Us within 60 days of England. '] he Melbourne Legislature had voted £50,000 a yeiir to any Company that would establish direct comnHyHCation ,vwth England in 60 days, via Panama, without touching at Sydney. He regretted that, we were not in a position to negotiate with any Company that might accept the ofiv,r of the Melbourne Government. lie meant no reflection on the Council for not having effected this, for such a reflection would be one on himself also. They had transacted a a large amount of useful business. Still he could not help- regretting that they were not prepared to avail themselves of the above circumstances, s If the Government thought fit to make it, he would support a proposal for enabling the Superintendent to go beyond the sum of £2.000 if he should find it necessary. If the object he had described were effected, there could be no doubt that the revenue of tie Province would increase very largely, so as to enable it to meet with ease such further expenditure. He had ventured to express these opinions, in order that the Government might, if it thought fit, make a corresponding change in the terms of the resolution. Mr. Brown, having originated the motion on which the present resolution was fourided, said his object had been to'join with the other provinces to maintain steam communication amongst them. Wellington was the natural centre of them all, and as such held out a most tempting bait to the long-sea companies. But though nature had so placed this port, circumstances might certainly divert the line of traffic from it; and hVwould, inojii c whether it was intended to expend tiie sum asked for in accordance with his (Mr.. B.s) motion, or in any other way that might seem advisable. The Puov. SiJcretaky said the resolution had been purposely .worded in general terms, so as- to give discretionary sanction to any expenditure by the Government for the encouragement of *steanV commu,ni';ation, according to circumstances, and to meet, any .emergencies that might arise: k One Company, whose manager was^noW at Slydtiey, and night, ne understood, soon -be respected hece in a' steamer, pro; posed, h~e believed,; Jo, touch alternately at Wellington and Auckland on their way betweeta Panama and Sydney.. It might be advisable to encourage that .-Company, or any other, either by grant ,',Qr _by obtaining a supply of coaX If it should-.- appear necessary, the Government would, npt hesitate to spend as much as £4,000, -and/-. then come to the Council for their approval. „,.-• Mr. Ludlam, .thought the Government should be- fully empowered to meet any case that might arise, and should not be confined to any particular mode- of expenditure.- The Lst Government had projected the building of a eteam wharf, .and thatmight prove desirable. The Government should be enabled to enter into any arrangements which would make Wellington the port -of call for any Panama and Australian line: as that would add immensely to the revenue and importance of the Prcvince. The vote was then agreed to, and the house resumed.

' NBW ZEALAND COMPANY S DEBT. The Prov. Secretary moved the following resolution : — . That until the General Assembly shall have deliberately considered the position of the Colony in re pest of the debt of the New Zealand Company, His Excellency the Governor be requested to refrain troin remitting to EngUud the one ibuith part of the proceeds

of sales of JanrPin this Province ns provided for in clause 74 of the Constitution Act. The Committee on this, subject had procured enobffh information to justify, n 'request to his Excellency for the cletentioi/of the money. He did not know whether ativ Governor would think himself justified in detaining it ; but we ought to.- leave no stone unturned to prevent the payment of the money until the question had been fully and fairly inquired into ; since it -was always difficult to get money refunded which had been once paid away, whether to a rightful creditor,pr, not. • Mr. Wakefield apologised for expressing 1 his opinions on this subject at any ( length. But "he found it necessary to explain on what grounds, he difesented from the resolution. He did not approve of the debt as inflicted on the colony. He had made strenuous efforts in England .to avert its infliction, and was ready to join as cordially as any man in resistance to the payment of so much of it as shou\d be found, orT'due, inquiry, .an. unjust ehaige on the eolcny of any par^of it/ But he could not take part in recommending the Governor 0 co^mit'/a breach , of the Constitution Act, ancL to ' seize "money in transitu x — because it happened $6 puss"|]|rougb, # ,hi,8 hands, for parties to wlio'nrtt did .'rib* 'legally belong. Such a course woul(Tprejudice Ji the % colony's case when a proper enquiry should be made. So ne gentlemen were of opinion that this money should be taken whenever and however we can. He thought, on the contrary, any Governor might be justly reprehended who should listen to such a request. Such an argument would just.fy a pickpocket. If the Governor were to assume" the support, of the colony as his authority for seizing the money when merely passing through his hands, the claim of the colony for the reduction or cancelment of the debt/when hereafter made by the General Assembly, would, he thought, be seriously prejudiced. 1 '' ' Mr. Brown considered the resolution in the light of a protest There - was a process by which money, whether rightly due or not, is being paid. That payment, wanted, in fact, auditing. In this case the Prov. Secretary appeared to desire an Audit of the accounts, and that no 'payment should be made in the meanwhile. T here was no General Assembly, and if they were to hold their tongues entirely, it would appear like letting- the money go by consent. There would be a better chance of justice, "if* the money were not spent in the meanwhile. [ Mr. Moore said they were entitled to make such a protest, and should take the stronges means to do so. As to the Governor's authority to detain the money, he had already done so at Auckland, and had thus recognised the right of the colonists to protest, and his own right to listen to them. He allowed, however, that Auckland had a stronger claim than this province to be freed from the debt. Mr. Revans reminded the House that his hon. colleague, (Mr. Bell) had selected lands for the Company at Auckland, \v,hich lands had been given up to the^ Government, and which, if now 'valued i would be found to be worth about £300.000, or more than the whole debt of the Company. But' the question was, whether the, Council was in justice called on to protest", and to call on the Governor to withhold payment?. Any just debt the colony ought to pay,' even though ruined by it, and leave it to the generosity of the just creditors how far they would press their claim. But it became the Council to represent the community here, as there was no General Assembly, by" supporting the resolution. By so doing they wou'd not vio'ate the Constitution, as his hon". friend (Mr. Wakefield) seemed to fear. The late Governor had already broken three Acts of Parliament deliberately, whether for the advantage of the colony or not was foieign to the question. He (Mr. R.) must f say lhat he had a , great respect for the decrees of the Parliament of our great country. He thought this Council a higher authority than any one individual, especially if he were an alien to the colony, as all Governors were. If the law is to* be violated as Sir-Gaorge Grey has done, let the colonists do a themselves through th ir representatives. Acts of Parlnment should be respected, even by Governors, whom hs did not consider as representatives of the Crown, but as agents of the Colonial Office. He did not respect a Colonial office Governor as ,he did the Queen. He feltthe highest respect for the Queen hers.'lf; he could respect a Constitutional monarchy ; and the British, ' Constitution had never, in his opinion, been carried into full force till that girl sate on the"* British throne! He had been called a rebeli but he .ne.er had been one against Qaeen Victoria. His respect for Constitutional monarchy made him all the more jealous of any infringement of the authority of Parliament. But if it was necessary to infiinge it, this_,Co.uncil was .more justified in that course than an individual Governor. A declaration' 'was wanted, as to whether Acts of Parjiamen^are, op are not, to be violated. -- Mr. LifDLAsr supported the resolution. Thfs was an account settled atjhome, but not settled with the concurrence of .the colonists. The Governor,- if be receive the opinion of this Council in. "favor of such a course, would he quite right not to pay over any of the proceeds of land sales to 'the Comp'any'until the accounts were properly settled. The Prov. Secretary explained that this was not a question of repudiating a just debt! The Government Was the channel b& which one- fourth of the proceeds of^|^j^aies was being transmitted to the GJ^^^^BBut no adjustment of this debt, in^^^^^^Mjtfons among the several P ro .^^^^^^^^B%" x made. The Provincesj^^^^^^^M^*t(j^ the fund in very djJ^^^^^^^^BTan^, those that sold^^^^^^^^^^H^ne paying up thj^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^HLgh^ its bearingjJ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^B **'" vernor's, h^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Bt^" fund, it '?j^^^^^^^^^^^^^L lhC part of tjj^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^H 1 " might sa^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^E^ wish for^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^f a proper^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| (Mr. f |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^H accoun^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^l

this Council of their difference with Mr. St. Hill. He wished to take the opportunity of saying, that he had no personal feeling against that gentleman. He had known him for 15 years 5 as a feKow colonist, and not an angry word had, passed between them' during the whole of that time. The expression which he had used the other day was not intended to reflect on Mr. 'St. Hill" individually. But he (Mr. R.) had enjoyed 30 years experience in colouies; and he had become aware of the existence of a class of persons, who, though British subjects and believing in the greatness of their country, did not feel that they were not at liberty to compromise those great principles' of free government which distinguished that country, and ■■who, therefore, aided and abetted Governors in injuring those principles. It was in regard to that opinion of a class, and not as to Mr. St. Hill personally, that his expressions were made. He had never been personally opposed to Mr. St. Hill ; but had, on the contrary, declared him to be a most efficient officer, though he confessed to having laughed at him for holding so many offices. He had, then, been animated by no personal feeling, but by a repugnance to a party which, by its want of faith in the ad"vantages of self-government, had succeeded in postponing its advent. H.e^(Mr. R.), in 30 years of colonial life, had experienced a "tolerable •amount of persecution,' and- had had ample opportunity to serve himself 'by repudiating the principle of self-government; but he never "would. He would always assert that Englishmen are better fitted to manage then* own affairs than any one else for them. The -PrOV. Secretary, in reply, said the hon. member's question occasioned him a painful feeling on one or two grounds. In the first place, he" was unable. to satisfy the hon. gentleman or the Council to-day by stating any specific -result of the investigation which had taken place before the Executive Council. The "-question • had received their serious consideration ; and they had examined Mr. St. Hill, and v other persons, in relation thereto. It was a -^question of great importance, on which they 'had not desired hastily to decide. They wished that an interval should elapse between the examination and their decision, in order that that decision" should not be unconsidered : for, if it were so, either injustice might be done to an estimable gentleman, and excellent officer, or there might occur some lapse of that dignity •and supremacy of the Executive, which the present Government were determined at all 'hazards to maintain. He should thereforesay nothing now to promote discussion on the subject ; although, if he had been in a position to make any statement, he should have had : things to say which 'would, he doubted not lead to discussion. Mr. Brown desired entirely to exculpate Mr. St. Hill from any blame which might attach to him from a supposition that he had "sought an occasion to give him (Mr. B.) the information which he had communicated to the Council. On the contrary, he (Mr. 8.-) gratuitously sought out Mr. St. Hill; and the blame -of the conversation, if any, should not fall on -Mr. St. Hill, bat on him. The reports of the Emigration and Library 'Committees were adopted.

APPROPRIATION ACT. The Appropriation Bill"was then read a se» *cond time. On the motion of the Provincial Secretary the Standing Orders were suspended and the Appropriation Bill was considered in Committee, the report brought up and adopted, and ■ the bill read a third time and passed.

SCAB AMENDMENT ACT. "On the third reading of the Scab Amendment Bill, Mr. Bell moved a clause by iray of rider, for the relief of those stockowners whose flocks were now in motion, which was adopted, and the bill was read a third time and passed. The 'following acts were also read a third time: — The Thistle Act, Road Act, Audit Act, Streets Amendment Act, New Zealand ComDebt Act, Licensing Amendment Act, and' the Contractors' Act. Mr. Wakefield's resolution referring to the '-"Correspoiitling Committee under the Agent Act was then unanimously adopted, after which -on the motion of the Provincial Secretary the fHouse adjourned to that day fortnight.