Wednesday, December 21.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IX, Issue 876, 24 December 1853, Page 4

Wednesday, December 21.

Ts n Speaker informed the Council fre hail re« ceived the opinion of his Honor Judge Stephen on the question proposed to him, relating'to the style or titfe of the lava made by them. The opinion which is -very long concludes by stating his Honor to be of opinion, " that there is pothing contained in that Act which makes it imperative that their law* sheuld be styled € Ordinances.'* The opinion was read and, on the motion of the Provincial Secretary, ordered to be printed. i Several notices of motion were given, when the Council went into a

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. -On the item of Cotitingenciei to Superb, tendent's department. Mr. Waitt proposed that one general sum should be voted to include the contingencies the several departments. The Fro. Secretary was of opinion that the plan now pursued was one more likely to ensm s bringing home the expenses of each department. He thought it would be objectionable to vote one lamp sum, and even under the head of Miscellaneous, if any means could be adopted by which that sum could be analysed, it would be highly desirable. -On the sum of £400 beiug proposed as the salary of Provincial Secretary. Mr. Wakefiblo thought it right on al occasions when he could 'do so, to give the Government a fair support, snd he wished to express his opinion that this vote was moderate and creditable to the Government. Mr, Moors rose to ask the Provincial Secretarywhether, in the sum named in the Estimates as Salary for the Provincial Secretary, anything tr«s taken into account for the duties of Provincial Treasurer, which were now performed by him ? The Pao. Secretary acknowledged the -appreciation of the Estimates shewn by the hon. member for the Hutt (Mr. Wakefield), which was the more gratifying 1 in proportion to their frequent difference of opinion. In answer to the inquiry of the hon. member who spoke last, he meant it to be understood that he (the I Secretary) had charge of the Provincial Trea- • surer's department merely ad interim, and that probably before the next session a Provincial i Treasurer would be appointed. Mr. Moore felt compelled by a sense of i duty to object to the amo.unt as too high, he 1 did feailessly because he felt he was doing it i honestly — if in the amount anything had Wen 1 considered as attached to the de- i partraenr, he would have been glad to have \ agreed to it, but as that was not the case he i felt bound to state that it was to him one of i the exceptional items, and should therefore pro- 1 pose that it be reduced to £300. As the Pro- < vir.cial Secretary had intimated that he wai do- » incr th» Tr*»t»«nror*e 4int\r ttiitknn* «m«> _/n~. ' .

ration, he begged as a member of that Council and also as a member of the community to thank him for doing so, nevertheless as it was also clearly stated by him that the arrangement was a mere provisional one, he inferred that at no distant date* and perhaps a tery short one, the Government would flee fit to appoint a Treasurer, and considering therefore the amount as only in legard to the Secretary's .Depart* meot he thought the scale too high for various reasons, and hoped the motion for it» redaction would be supported. He was now quite prepared for the shower of indignation which his remarks might draw from the Hon. Provincial Secretary. He wouM simply observe that he hoped he would confine hit attacks to himself, and not travel out of his way, as yesterday, to level sweeping aspersions and imputations against those who were not there to answer him. The Chairman (Mr. Revaus) said he thought this was out of order. Mr. MooaE would bow to his authority, and would move that the sum be £300. The Pao. Sbcritakt said it was a delicate matter for any member to speak respecting his own salary. He assured the hon. member if he imagined he was about to discharge a shower of indignation on him and had brought an j umbrella, he was mistaken. He should not ' give any vote on this . question, and was per- [ fectly regardless whether the committee voted £300 or any other sura. He was glad the question of diminution of salary was raised in his own case rather than that of any other member of Government, as it would alloir him to speak on a question in his opinion almost forming part of Responsible Government. He held his present office, and would continue to hold it as long as he was backed by the conßdence of the public; as soon as that was withdrawn some other hon. member would take bis j seat ; it necessarily followed that the salaries of officers of Government dhouM be fired by a permanent Act. It would be unseemly for officers placed in high positions annually to squabble or higgle over their salaries. If a permanent Act were now before the House, he should speak oat plainly as to the sufficiency or : insufficiency of the sura proposed, as be should not be then discussing the salary as that proposed to be given to himself, but merely as the present tenant in office, and 'he regarded this as an additional argument to those used by kirn yesterday. Capt. Daniill read the Estimates of the Colonial Secretary's and Treasurer's departments of the Government of 1851 and contrasted with them the Estimates now before the Council. Mr. Cx,irroiu>aaid, whenever an opportunity occurred for congratulation on tha change which had taken place in the Government it should not be passed over, andlie thought ftere could nofbe a better one than the present. He then read some remarks from Lieut. Governor Eyre's address to his Provincial Council referring to the Estimates, when, -te said, the whole arnouat of revenue was spent in salaries, and among the mort important public works provided for in those 'Estimates was that of Government Gardener ; and thought such arguments in favor of paying Government Officers adeqaately might be urged Hjaite as moch now aSTfien. "Mr. BudwN said this 'reference to the past was most disgusting. 'Let them consider the Estimates like men of business without *uch invidious remarks as had just been made. Mr. Lcdlau -sard he did ndt rise to support the amendment of the hon. member '.(Mr. Moore) because he ihoughfwhile the Provincial Secretary carried on the work of the Treasury he was entitled 'to 'receive a salary of £400 a year. 'but io«oo& as a Provincial Treasurer was appointed, then he should consider the sum of £400 as too high a -salary for the Provincial Secretary. The hon. member for Waaganui (Captain* Daniel!) bad nulled the attention of the House to a statement of (he Colonial Secretary and Treasurer's department in the Estimates of New Munster. with a*iew of shewing how high they were against those now recommended. It must be borne in mind that those departments did the work of the Province of New Munster which was now divided into four Provinces, besides all the General Government business. The -cost of the Colonial Secretary's department, a* stated in the Estimates of 1881 was £948, under the Provincial Government it was £625. 1316 Treasurer's department of New Minister cost £57© ; now supposing the a«m of '£3oo as a salary to the Treasurer, the <jost to this Province would be £485. He <Mr. L.) considered that the present coat of the foor Provinces for officers, with the addition <\f the expences of General Government will far, exceed the cost of governing the Province of New Munster under the' old aysten. As * member of the Council of New Munster he had often objected to sums on the Estimates, but the Lieutenant-Governor: where ht found any sum unpalatable to the Council, placed it <m the Civil List which was, beyond their control, fie had often protested * agMflst the practice but to no avail, any ques- c tkm that was raised was shelved by putting it F on the Civi) List. It was the system 'that was l bad, which made it expensive. *

• Amendment lost. On the salary nf the clerk in Secretary's office being proposed The Provincial Secrktart said whenever a principle was involved he would beg to be allowed to offer a few observations, even at the risk of being considered tedious. He thought that an annual increase of the salaries Q f permanent offices would be & recognition of a principle of vital importance in carrying qq the Go* vernment. There were two modes of dealing with this question. One wn« to h,old out something for the future as a retiring salary, the other was by giving an annual jucrease of salaries rising to a maximum, so that if a person were prudent be jnjght lav fry •omething out

! oi ms annual income. Iftlurapsum were proposed to be given on retirement, or loss of office, it would be ft temptation to men to slip oat, and if a retinngsalary were to be granted, it would be" a means of saddling the Provinces with state patipers. He woald oat begm td bring fa the evil* contemplated by either of the modes he ha.l alluded to. and would propose to accomplish the end be had m view by fusing the salaries of permanent officers ami! they reached a maximam. It would be necessary ihe House should comer to some decision on this question for the gmdanee of Government,*™! to prevent raising/ what might prove to be delate hope*. On the 1 cowrtigencirt for the BWd of Audit being proposed Mr. Brown thotfgfrf tfee progttaeti Hoard, should be constructed on mote liberal tfrraci-' pies ; if some of the Magistrates were added to" the Board of Audit the pnblic woufdf te statist fied with the open and straightforward course" pursued by Government. The pROTiNCiAi Secbbtart said if the hon. member woald reflect on his proposition he would find it to be * very impracticable mode of auditing accounts, a« the duties of the board) woald practically be performed by one or twopersons. The appearance of publicity would bearaere shadow. The proposed! board would consist of the Resident Magistrate, Provincial Secretary, and one other member not yet naa^dIt might be found a better plan to appoint a. paid auditor, but the Government could on no consideration consent to the appointment of a board of magistrates, or any other gentlemen, forauditing accounts for which they were not strictly responsible. Mr. Moons perfectly concurred in the opinion, that the Auditor should be a paid officer, as of* fering the best possible guarantee to the public. He was sorry at first to see a blank in the es - timates under this head, and had taken an earlyopportunity of enquiring into the circumstances r and when he found a board was to be constituted, of which the Resident Magistrate (Mr. St. Hill) was to be a member, his mind was perfectly set at rest. The Provincial Sboretart' said if on a question of examining and auditing accounts it were the opinion even of a strong minority of that House that ft paid auditor should be appointed, especially as a loan would be raised and a large expenditure incurred, the Government would not oppose the appointment. Mr. Wakkvikld had been struck by what be deemed an omission in the new machinery of Provincial Government — that of a real and responsible Audit of accounts. He could not believe that the object would be obtained bymeans of a Board; still less, if the Board were composed of the heads of other departments, who would thus, in fact, audit their own accounts. Hie believed, too, that any Board, however composed, might prove rather a screen than a check ; for though it was true, as the Hon. Secretary had observed, that when work is entrusted to many, it is commonly p-rforroed briefly by only one, yet all were responsible ; and a responsibility divided, nmonjrst many was notoriously ineffectonl. He therefore agreed with the hon. member for Wellington (Mr. Moore) that they ought to have an a'idit office, in which some one person would be responsible. That might cause some expense, but not much, because the duties womW be neither constant nor very laborious; and probably a gentleman tm'gbt be found for the office, in whom the public wocld confide, and who, having other pursuits, would be content with a smalt salary by way of addition to tois income. The Pitrtf. Secretary was -quite prepared, if a morion were made to that effect, <o leave to the consideration of a future tiny the question whether a paid Auditor was more desirable than an unpaid Board. Generally speaking,- a paid officer was better than an unpaid Board, and a saving was sometimes found not to be consistent with true economy. On the consideration of the items -off Harbor department, a."ter some discussion on the pilot's salary, ft was agreed that he shoald receive £100 a year and half the pilotage, and that previous to the appointment of a pilot he should be subject to an examination. On the discussion of contingencies connected with the Lighthouse, it was suggested that a select Committee should lie appointed to obtain information, andtnata^aftwar signal lamp should be obtained in order to render the present building thoroughly efficient. Under the head of Judicial, h answer to a question from Mr. Bell, The P*ovinczai< Secretary said the fees of the Supreme Court had nothing to do with the office of Registrar General. The present Re-gistrar-General also performed the duties of Registrar of the Supreme Court, but the offices were totally separate. The Provincial Government objected to receiving over the department of Registrar- General, on the undertaking that the Fees should be paid, and the balance of payment of salaries made good. He considered no Government should be called on to pay any department over which they had no con1 trol. Although the Provincial Government declined to take over the Registrar- General's department, they still required the fees received by that department should be paid over under the Registration Ordinance. He contended it .was imperative on the Registrar-General to pay over to the Provincial Government the fee* he received. In the department of Registrar of deeds, the fees received formed a fee fund, which went towards paying the expenses of the department. On the item, Provincial Solicitor a,t 45200 * year, beiug proposed Mr. Wakefikld aaid he thought the «urn proposed exceedingly moderate. In the department of Armed Police it was, explained that after 31st January ]854 it was, proposed to i educe the force from 80, to lft privates; the police station, at FahataUanui which had been kept up, chiefly on account of forwarding the Wanganui mail, should 6e done away with, and the mail forwarded, by Native polipemen on horse*., which would, give oneclear extra day at Vfanganui far answering letters ; and that a lock up should be provided at TeAro, The Chairman then reported progress, snd the house adjourned.