PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Thursday, 3rd November.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IX, Issue 863, 9 November 1853, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Thursday, 3rd November.

The Council met at 3 o'clock.

STANDING ORDERS. Mr. FiTZHEBBEftr rose to move the postponement of the further consideration of the Standing Orders. He was of opinion there ■would be no utility in proceeding with the Standmg Orders, until the motion he w.is about to make t\ as disposed of one way or the other. Mr. Wake held, from the statement made by the hon. member, could see no necessity for postponing the fuither consideration of the Standing Orders, as his motion might come on afterwards. But if, provided the motion of the hon. member was carried, it was the intention of Government to adjourn the House for two or three weeks, there would be no necessity for proceeding at present with the consideration of the Standing Orders. Mr. Fitzherbert rose in explanation, and, in answer to the hon. member, to make the frank avowal that if his motion were carried it was the intention of Government to move the adjournment of the House for such a period as would meet the convenience of members, and the exigencies of the case. Mr. Wakefteld inquired if the Executive Bill had received the Superintendent's assent, and was answered in the affirmative. Motion agreed to.

GENERAL ASSEMBLY. Mr. Brown read the following resolution Avith reference to the General Assembly :—: — That while this Council might cordially adopt tbe various useful suggestions contained in the address of his Honor the Superintendent, itexceedingly regrets that, from the delay (intentional or otherwise) that has taken place in calling together the General Assembly, in accordance with the provisions of the " Constitution Act," and the express desire of the Secretary of State, it has, as yet, no legal authority lo interfere with the public funds, and no power, constitutionally, to sanction their particular application by his Honor the Superintendent. That however keenly it may_ feel the necessity of the public service, and the delicate and trying situation of his Honor the Superintendent, it cannot attempt to assume, nor endeavour to use, those functions, which hare not yet been legally and constitutionally conferred upon it. That being aware of disorders, and serious injuries inflicted on this community by the irregular manner in which the Constitution has been partially introduced, this Council cannot refrain from -expressing, in the strongest and most unqualified terms, its disapprobation of the culpable delay that has occurred in calling, together the General Assembly, who alone have the power, in the first in-

stance, of appropriating the revenue, and apportioning the surplus to the Provincial Councils. That a respectful address be presented to His Excellency the Governor, urging on his attention, the indispensable necessity that exi3ts for immediately calling together the General Assembly, that this state cf things may speedily determine; and that those blessings of law and Constitutional Government, which the wisdom of the Imperial Pailiament designed for, and the Constitution Act in its integrity is so well calculated to confer upon New Zealand, may no longer he withheld from our use and enjoyment. The lion, member commented on the resolution at considerable length, and concluded by stating it was not his intention to press the motion to a division ; he wi&hcd to call the attention of the House to this important subject, and -would lea%o them to deal with it as they might think fit. He then gave notice he *Vould move the consideration of this question at an early day. Mr. WaUefield rose to second the motion, and as the consideration of the question was postponed he would, according to established practice, not remark upon it now. He had expected that some member of the Government would have said something on this subject, It was a matter for regret that this Council should have met and separated without having beard any opinion from authority ; that no legal gentleman connected with the Government should have stated his opinion on this important subject. Mr. Wakcfield then referred to information he had that day received as to the course about to be pursued by one of the Provincial Councils, which had taken the subject into their earnest consideration. Mr. W. then read a minute by the head of the Executive of the Province referred to, on which he said he would not at present pass an opinion, except remarking that it appeared to him very carefully and logically drawn up, and that the course it recommended would, he had no doubt, be adopted in the Province to which he alluded. As had been remarked, there wero now six supreme Provincial Governments, and one subordinate General Government, a state of things which was clearly not contemplated by the Act. As the motion was withdrawn for the present, it would be unwise before the Go- \ eminent was constituted to pursue the subject further. Mr. Fitzherbert said that as it was not the intention of the mover to press the question to a division, he thought the present was not a happy opportunity for discussing it. If there had been any delay in calling the General Assembly together it was chargeable to the head of the Executive. He had listened with great attention to the document read by the hon. member, and without pretending to speak with legal authority, he would observe the subject had not escaped the attention of the Government of this Province. By clause 18 of the Constitution Act it was provided " That it shall be lawful for the Superintendent of each Province, with the ad\ice and consent of the Piwincial Council thereof, to make and ordain all such laws and ordinances, (except and subject as hereinafter mentioned), as may be required for the peace, order, and good government of such Province." And by clause 53, "It shall be competent to the said General Assembly, (o\Ce«pt and subject as hereinafter mentioned,) to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of New Zealand." By comparing the clauses it would be seen that, save and except on thirteen subjects, equal powers were given to the Provincial and General Legislatures, but while the powers were equal, that of the Provincial Council was limited to the Pro\ince in which it was constituted, while the power of the General Legislature extended over the whole Colony. He believed the highest legal opinion had been taken on the subject, and the public need not be frightened by the bugbear of the Provincial Council being hampored and brought to a dead lock, consequent on the non-assembling of the General Legislature. He hoped the hon. member (Mr. Brown) would withdraw his motion for the present. Motion withdrawn.

RESIGNATION OF MEMBERS. Mr. Fitztierrert in rising to move pursuant to notice "That membors on accepting appointment of emolument, should resign their scats, and pass through the ordeal of a fresh election" — said he had to inform the Council he had received from his Honor the Superintendent the appointment of Provincial Secretary which he had accepted, and he hoped, if his motion should be carried and he should be reelected) he should receive the fair, candid, and generous support of the Council. In bringing forward the present motion he wished to make one observation in explanation of the part he took in yesterday's debate. He then vdted against a modified system having reference to the resignation of their seats by members of the Executive on accepting office, and he had less difficulty in giving his vote, as he considered it much more desirable to bring forward a substantive proposition, that all officers of Government who were members of that House, on receiving any office of emolument should resign their seats, and submit to the ordeal of a fresh election. He thought this course would be the most desirable if it could be carried out without embarrassment. A great principle was embodied in the motion, but at the same time it should be borne in mind it was one which, if adopted in the present circumstances, would subject the Council and the Province to special inconvenience. If his motion were carried it would be necessary for him to move the adjournment of the Council, and before doing so it would be absolutely necessary for the Council to pass a resolution, to empower His Honor the Superintendent to issue his warrants to meet the current expenses of the Government for another month. This course was exceedingly undesirable, but the success of his motion would render it absolutely necessary for the credit of the Government and the Province. It was right the Council should know what they were about to do. On the one side was a great constitutional principle, on the other a great temporary inconvenience, and by accepting one he could see no alternative but to accept both. Another inconvenience was the expense and interruption to business which often repeated elections would cause. He wished the. Council to take a dispassionate view of the subject, as it would

give a greater weight to their decision. He hoped also hon. members would be fully alive to the responsibility which his motion, if carried, would impose upon fevery member- of the House: He hoped, if this motion were carried, there would be no difficulty in passing either the vote he had alluded to, or the,adjournment of the Council, which was less to be regretted as they had not the full number of the Council, and if they adjourned for a nionth it would allow time for the vacancies which had occurred to be filled tip. Mr. Bkaxdox, in seconding the motion, had also to announce that he had been appointed by the Superintendent to the office of Solicitor of the Province. He entirely concurred with all that had fallen from the hon. Secretary, and would only add he should endeavour, if ro-elected, so to conduct the public business as not to engender ill feeling, and to attain the fullest prosperity of the Province. He should not retract from the opinions he had advanced yesterday, and expressed his conviction that no member should hold office one minute longer than he possessed the confidence of the Council and his constituents. Mr. Bkown was desirous that some plan should be adopted of carry ing out the principle of the motion, without the inconvenience of adjourning the Council or resorting to a re-elec-tion ; and suggested that on a member's accepting office, instead of a fresh election, it should be left to his constituents, during a li- ; mited period, to express their dissent to his appointment if they thought proper. j Mr. Hevans v> as strongly opposed to the suggestion that had just been made, A\hich, if carried out to its fullest extent, would go to establish mob law, perhaps Lynch law, over their proceedings. Considering their small number, he felt it to be exceedingly desirable to be content to remain as they were at present, and feared the issue of the proceeding would be "to defeat the responsibility Which otherwise might have existed. He could not but regard the present motion with regret, as being productive of great inconvenience, but under the circvimstances he felt bound to vote in favor of it. Mr. Moore said when the discussion upon this question was first raised, he was very strongly impressed with the necessity of recognising the principle embodied in the motion now before the Council — upon the discussion, however, arguments had been brought forward to shew the great inconvenience and obstruction which would attend its being brought into a"ctive operation. These same arguments had again just been adverted to by the Hon. the Provincial Secretary, and most forcibly by the hon. member for Wa'rarapa—he admitted the inconveniences, but it was the first time he had ever heard them alluded to in the quarter where they now were so strongly insisted on, and he therefore had listened to them with considerable surprise. Years ago he had expressed doubts and misgivings as td the inconveniences that might nrise in the introduction of a full and complete system of representative and responsible Government — but he had always been met by the assertion that all the inconvenience and all the disadvantages were nothing, compared with the advantages of free government, and the establishment of sound principles ; — the one was never for one moment to be allowed to weigh against the other. Still these arguments oi inconvenience had had great weight with him, and he felt bound to say, had excited some apprehension in his mind, and he saw in them a serious responsibil ty ; — but he also saw that it was a question between expediency and principle, and no doubt remained 'on his mind which should give way. During one of the adjournments of the house he had endeavoured to think of some plan by which, still retaining the principle, the inconvenience might be got rid of — but his own ingenuity had failed to discover any such means. He had a passing conversation with an hon. member, who suggested that it would perhaps meet the case if it were proposed that members accepting office should resign at the end of the current Session. He thought this a good suggestion and came back to the Council prepared to submit an i amendment to! that effect in the event of some one better qualified for the task not doing so, but when on entering the Council the amendment of the hon. member for the Hutt (Mr. W.) was shown to him, he at once adopted it, for he saw in it a complete escape from the difficulty, and felt quite pleased to second it. He was very surprised and very sorry to find it was not met in the spirit which he had expected, he could not understand why it _ was not at once accepted, he thought it ought to have been; and all would have gone on smoothly, the principle maintained, and the mischief obviated. He must distinctly charge upon those who refused the amendment, the responsibility of any inconvenience which may arise in this matter. The Province of Canter- ! bury had been held up as* furnishing sonic exanrples worthy our imitation, by the hon. Provincial Secretary' in the discussion upon the Standing Orders. He would point to that Province as having furnished another good example ill their adoption of this great feature of responsible government. He for one would be sorry to fc'ee that Wellington, having always assumed to be the first and foremost in conI tending for popular privileges and responsibility to the people, should be the first to deny them in their full and free extent. Mr. Ludlam said the minority in the Council had supported an amendment yesterday by which they were willing to defer the re-election of those members who had accepted office to the end of the session, but the" members supportirig the Government had thought proper to bring forward a resolution of their otvn. He considered three weeks to be the outside period to which the Council should be adjourned. Something had been said about obstruction to the Government, but he considered the almost unanimous vole of £500 by the Council a sufficient answer to such a charge. It was not an obstructive motion to move that the Superintendent's Speech should be fully considered by the Council. He thought the Council should not be adjourned for a longer period than three weeks, when the Provincial Secretary should be prepared , to submit the Estimates to the Council. . . Mr. Wakefibld, though he would not give

a silent vote on the question before the House should say bdt a few words now. He could, not but repeat the expression of his regret that the course proposed by him yesterday had not been adopted. Let them see what a position the Council ha<l got into in a sitting of only a week. When they first met, his Honor the Superintendent addressed them on the subject of the resignation of members taking office. His Honor rather condemned than approved of the principle. Merrihcrs of that House connected with the Government had spoken against it. Nobody imagined, when the Council met, that it would, after sitting a week, be adjourned for a month. The Provincial Secretary now pro- | posed a corrse, to which his Honor the Superintendent and the membeis of his Government had, till now, been opposed. As he (Mr. Wakefield) had failed in his attempt to avert the evils of an immediate adjournment, his only course was now to support the main point of his own proposal — which was that members who took office should resign their seats. Unless that measure of responsibility were secured in some way, the members of that House, elected for four years, might be brought wholly under the influence of the Executive, and there would be the anomaly of representation without responsibility. Whilst on that topic, he wished to notice a circumstance of great importance, which belonged to it. A high officer of the General Government wa« now seeking to obtain a seat in that House. He (Mr. Wakefield) could only speak of him individually, with the respect which he felt for his talents, and with the warm personal regard which he felt towards him ; but he would say, on general constitutional grounds, that if that gentleman were elected, they should have a member of that Council holding office, but total'y free from that responsibility towards the people, which they were now imposing on members of Council holding office in the Provincial Government. He would not dwell on the subject now; but it was manifestly one to which the House would have to return. He would take that opportunity of again drawing the attention of the Council to the frequent repetition by the Hon. the Provincial Secretary of a charge against that side of the hou°e, that they were a factious opposition obstructing the measures of Government. He was wholly unconscious of any foundation for the accusation. Instead of obstructing the Government, the independent members of Council had done all they could to assist them. They had cheerfully granted supplies without enquiry. They had passed the Executive Bill through all its stages in a single day ; and the proposal that they should do so had come, not from the Government side", but from independent members. He would ca'l attention to the fact that whilst gentlemen who supported Government were banded together as a party, there was no party on the other side of the House. He would not say a word against government by party, because he fully accepted the doctrine of a great English statesman, Lord John Russell, who had said, that whatever might be the evils of party, they were the price which the people paid for freedom. He did not, therefore, object to party combination on the other side ; but he declared most seriously, that among the members of that house unconnected with the Government, there had been nothing like combination, or concert, or even agreement, beforehand. What they had done in the House, had been altogether unplanned, and even unpremeditated. Their endeavour^ had been made without any preparation, and had been exclusively directed to the two objects of suggesting improvements in measures brought before the Council, (most of which the Government party had recognised as improvements, and cheerfully adopted) and of facilitating the progress of business. With the same desire now, he supported the present motion in order that the principal members of the Executive might be re-elected, and the whole machine of Government he got into working order, as soon as possible. Mr. Renall concurred with what had fallen from the previous speaker, and regretted the amendment of yesterday had not been carried. Mr. Fitzherbert, in reference to the observations made by the hon. member for Wellington CMr. Moore) could not avoid observing that he had proved himself quite an adept in the new science of table turning. This electro biology or whatever else it was, had certainly been largely imbibed by him. The speech of the hon. gentleman was table turning outright. Metaphysicians had debated as to the personal identity of man, and on hearing the hon. gentleman now, and comparing- him with what he had been in former days, it was impossible to identify him, He could not permit such remarks, from such a quarter, on the conduct of those who had ever struggled enthusiastically at Wellington in the cause of Constitutional Freedom, to pass without notice. They had been told that the Province of Canterbury had set an example of Responsible Government which they were called upon to imitate, but however reluctant he might be to s-iy anything in disparagement of a neighbouring Province, he must remark that from the policy that had ' been adopted there, he could only come to the conclusion that Responsible Government was thoroughly misunderstood at Canterbury. The heads of departments did not hold seats in the Council of that Province, and therefore they had not even the shadow of Responsible Government. As to the proposition they had been invited to accept, it would have stultified them and rendered them unworthy of holding office, and have degraded them in the public estimation. If the amendment were thoroughly sifted it went to this effect, that members accepting office should not vacate their seats until the end of a session, s-o that hon. mercbers might sit down for twelve months, and might have defied the public without the possibility of being turned out. What woulJ be thought of such conduct ? Would not the public justly have said, here are men who pretend to be in favor of Responsible Government passing a resolution, the effect of which would be to allow them to slip into office without the possibility of interfering in the matter ? .Then as regarded the obstruction offered by the other side to the propositions introduced on his side the house ; amendment upon amendment had been moved on the very first resolution that had been proposed, that certain funds at present placed undei the management of the Land Commissioner should be placed under the control of the Council, under the paltry pretence that it involved the appropriation of money ; and other

examples might be given of the exhibition of a spirit of obstruction. The manner of dealing with the address of the Superintendent had been to him a mutter of considerable surprise. It had been moved by the h >n. member for the Hutt (Mr. Wakefield) that the Superintendent's speech should be taken into consideration immediately after the passing of the standing orders. But on the day appointed for the purpose, instead of doing so he professed to betaken by surprise, and asserted the clerk had mistaken the object of his motion. Mr. Revans then offered to take the motion off his hands, and moved a resolution in accordance with the first suggestion contained in the address, this had bdcn met by amendment upon amendment not involving one matter of principle, which had in his opinion plainly exhibited a desire to stifle discussion. After the first resolution had been disposed df, he (Mr. F.) had intended to move resolutions on the two other questions specially referred to by the Superintendent, the thir.l. as would be seen by reference to the notes he had prepared, being "the one now before the House* These three subjects having been disposed of one way or the other, it had been his intention to move the consideration of the remaining portion of the address. It was under the pretence that "a resolution like the one he had referred to was a call for the appropriation of money, that these futile arguments, or he might call them, obstructive arguments, had been used. The result was the address had never been gone into at all. It had been stated by the other side that they had not acted in concert. They had a perfect right to act in concert, but he (Mr. F.) made a great distinction between dividing the House on paltry questions, and on measures in which a great principle was involved, and this it was that he complained of. The conduct of the other side with reference to the Superintendent's speech was like that of a set of little dogs with a hedge hog, no one would go in and tackle it. Or, he might compare their opposition to a pudding made by an inexperi-^ enced housewife without a sufficient number of eggs, the moment it was placed on the table it would tumble to pieces. He would not have entered into these statements if he had not been provoked, but he was of opinion that there was nothing like hitting the nail on the head. It was impossible for the same members who had hitherto acted in concert to agree *o the address as a whole, and that perhaps was why they had agreed together to burke the address. There was a clause in the address relating to the £1 an acre system, and the reservation of hind for the purpose of trying the experiment of small freehold, there was^-albO the suggestion of a land tux, and he could easily imagine, from the pre\ious political career and previous political opinions of some of the membeis who were now acting in concert, that they would not agree on those°points, and this rni^ht be the reason for their voting in this obstructive manner. He might perhaps be wrong ; they might all have acted for the best according to their judgment, and from the pressure of circumstances had been forced to act in this makeshift way. Mr. Wakkfield begged to observe the speech of the hon. Provincial Secretary had nothing to do with the question before the hou^e. Mr. Ludlam rose fo explain, and was proceeding to notice Mr. Fitzherbert's speech, when Mr. Fitzh erbert rose to order, and objected i that, Mr. Ludlam was not entitled to speak twice on the same motion. Mr. Ludlam said that he was going to speak in explanation. The Speaker appealed to Mr. Wakefield, as having expeiience in the debates of legislative bodies, and -asked, whether in his opinion, on the plea of rising to explain, a member could speak twice on the same motion. Mr. Wakefield could not entertain a doubt that it was improper for a member to speak twice on the same motion, except really in explanation of something said by himself during that debate, which had been misapprehended°by another member. That was not the object of his honorable colleague from the Hutt, and therefore he appeared to be quite out of oider. But as the Speaker had done him (Mr. Wakefield) the honor to ask his^opinion on the subject, he would venture to add the expression of hh trust, that, as the Speaker had allowed Mr. Fitzherbert, when speaking in reply at the very close of the debate, when he could not be answered, to dwell at length on topics wholly foreign to the subject before the House, so he (the Speaker) would not fail to give members who were attacked by that speech, some opponunity of noticing it. Such an opportunity would occur presenth , when there should be another motion before the House. The present debate was closed by Mr. Fitzherbert's reply. Mr. Fitzherbert's resolution was then put and carried.

VOTE OF MONEY. The Provincial Secretary then submitted a resolution for the suoi of £900 to meet the current expenses of the month, he regretted from not having yet been installed in office it was scarcely possible for him to afford the necessary information as to different items, but he believed the money was required for works on the roads, for police and other departments. Mr. Wmcefield observed, that this motion for a supply of money was made in the House* The usual course was to begin by moving that the House should go into Committee of the whole House on supply. Resolution for going into Committee was then carried.

The Provincial Secretary moved a resolution empowering the Superintendent to issue his warrants for the sum of £900 for the expences of Government for the current mooth. Mr. Mooub rose for the purpose of making one or two remafks expressive of his regret that the necessity appeared to exist for this vote, which came before them in the same hurried manner, and in the same urgent haste as the former vote of appropriation, without, to his mind, the same reasons to be urged in its favour. It was another instance of the mischief arising from the rejection of the amendment of the hon. member for the Hutt. He should consent to the voce, but only with regret, and upon the distinct assurance of the hoo. the Provincial Secretary of its absolute necessity.

The Povinciae Secretarst— that was tho sole plea on which he submitted the resolution,Mr. Wakeeicld begged le^ve. to^skfor what

purpose was wanted the £50 under the head of Harbour Department.

The Provincial Secretary was unable to supply any infoimation. Mr. Wakefteld wished to ascertain how the money was to be expended. That Council could not meddle with harbour dues, or their collection, without a manifest violation of the Constitution Act. He should not oppose the vote, notwithstanding its utter illegality ; but he could not help noticing that, at a s time when it especially behoved that Council to be guided by a regard for Constitutional law, they were forced into a position in which they frequently treated the fundamental law of the colony with disrespect, not to say contempt.

The Provincial Secretary was willing to withdraw the last item. Mr. Wakepield said that his objection to the particular item was special, as applying to the provision of the Constitution which expressly forbad the Provincial Governments to meddle with Harbour management; but there was a general objection to the whole supply, which would not be lemoved by withdrawing the item for Harbour management. They were appropriating the geneial revenue contrary to law : they were ignoring the only authority in the country which could legally make such an appropriation. He only noticed the fact, and should support the motion, on the principle of submitting to necessity, but solemnly protesting against the unavoidable illegality. The resolution was then passed.

ADJOURNMENT OP HOUSE. The Provincial Secretary moved the adjournment of the Council to the 3rd December. Mr. Wakefield said that what they were now doing seemed to him very irregular. The Council was, he feared, getting into an absurd position. They were about to adjourn the House for the purpose of sending back to their constituents two members who had not resigned their seats. Tt was perfectly clear that the members ought to resign before any motion for an adjournment. They were making n precedent; and it might happen, on such an occasion, that after the House had adjourned, the members would not resign. He prayed the House to have more regard for Constitutional forms; and he especially appealed to those members who had always evinced the warmest attachment to Constitutional Govern- - ment. He trusted that they would correct the irregularity, and not expose the Council to be ridiculed for ignorance of one of the best understood usages of Parliament. He prayed of them not to force on a division, but to' with- * draw the motion for an adjournment until the members who were about to resign, had actually done so. Mr. Brandon said in order to have constitutionally appointed Executive officers, they had announced their acceptance of office, and were consequently bound to resign. It was desirable to have everything in order, and that the house should not be put to inconvenience. Mr. Wakefield said they were proceeding most irregularly. They were discussing a motion for adjournment in committee. Such a motion should be before the House itself, with ' the Speaker in the chair. Two honorable mem- * bers were present in defiance of that resolution which the Council had passed, which enjoined members who accepted office to resign their seats. He would suggest as a means of restor- ' ing order to their proceedings, that the House should resume,andbe adjourned until to-morrow, giving official members time to resign, and basing the adjournment for a month on the fact of their resignations. By the delay of only a few hours, their proceedings would thus - be placed on a proper footing. The Chairman reported progress, and the House resumed ; when the Provincial Secretary * moved the adjournment of the House until 3rd December. Mr. Wakefield moved, as an amendment, the adjournment of the House to to-morrow. After some discussion Mr. Wakefield was very unwilling to trouble the house again, but he could not help availing himself of the opportunity which the motion presented, of making a few observations on that speech of the hon. the Provincial Secretaay, by which he (Mr. Wakefield) and others were accused of having burked discussion on the Superintendent's speech to Council. In making those observations, he would not follow the example which had been set of using irritating language, but would endeavour to keep his temper, and to speak with that self-command and good humour which were essential to the orderly proceedings of that House. The members, who were independent of the Government, instead of seeking to prevent a complete discussion of the Superintendent's speech, and the policy of the Government, had done all in their power to bring on such discussion ; and their efforts towards that end had been, he thought he might say, pertinaciously resisted by the other side of the house. •Now, indeed, when it was too late, the hon. the Provincial Secretary turned round upon them, and claimed for himself and his friends that they had been anxious for such discussion, and spoke as if the Council had been deprived of it by the independent members. In like manner, the bon. Secretary seemed to accuse he independent members of having objected to the resignation of their seats by members taking office, and to claim for himself and his friends the merit of having originated that part of responsible government. Ofcoui'se he had forgotten that it was the independent members who had first proposed, and constantly insisted on.the necessity of resignation upon acceptance of office, whilst on the other hand, that measure had been rather condemned than approved by the Superintendent in his speech, and by the honorable members who were now in office. It could not be doubted that the first imppressions of the Government party were hostile to the resignation of seats as a consequence of taking office, though now they took a diametrically opposita view of the subject. The honorable Secretary had talked about "table turning" on that side of the House. Surely his observations were more applicable to himself and his friends, who, on the two great questions of discussing the Superintendent's speech, and the resignation of seats by members taking office, had at last turned to opinions exactly opposite to those which they held at first. Mr. Ludlam rose to answer some remarks made by the hon. the Provincial Secretary, in which he charged the members of this side the

House with being afraid to express an opinion on the Superintendent's speech, and with having tried to burke it. On the minute book of the Council would be found an amendment proposed by himself, to consider his Honor's speech as a'whole. -He (Mr. L.) came in late, and found a resolution just being put from the chair. He read it, and not objecting to it made no observations upon it, believing the hon. mover would afterwards enter into a full discussion on the speech, and not take it seriatim by resolutions. He (Mr. L.) would ask what would be thought, if the speech from the throne in England was proposed to be consideied by a resolution on any part of- it ? Why those who made such a proposal would be laughed at. He (Mr. L.) maintained that the whole of the divisions in that Council had arisen from the bad policy of the Government, in not having brought forward his Honor's speech for consideration as a whole, instead of trying to catch the votes of this Council on particular parts of it. Had such a course been adopted, they would now be in possession of the opinions of the whole House, and he believed the general policy of his Honor's speech would have been affirmed without a single dissentient voice, members reserving to themselves the right of differing on points of detail. He (Mr. L.) threw back to the Government side of the House the charge of having burked the speech. He had come to the House prepared to give a vote according to his conscience, and he would not be prevented from so doing, by being told that he was offeiing a factious opposition. Mr. Moons, in reference to what had fallen from the Provincial Secretary about burking his Honor's address, begged to repeat most distinctly what he had said before upon that question ; and if his word was worth anything in that Council then, or if it was worth anything now, he would say that he came to that debate expecting to see some influential member of the Government bring forward that address, that discussion would take place upon it, and that each member of that Council would have bad an opportunity of stating his views upon the general or particular policy contained in it, without being compelled to bring forward a motion upon it. He, for one, was quite unprepared with any motion or amendment, but he had been prepared to state his views on several points, and must remind the Council that he, at the time, complained that he was deceived by the effect of the motion of the hon. member for Wairarapa, which, as it were, shut him out from the discussion. He thought such discussion would have shewn the opinion of the Council generally, that some general resolution embodying that opinion might have been arrived at, or otherwise, in the event of any amendment, which he did not believe was contemplated, and the whole would then have gone on, in what his limited information on these subjects had led him to believe, was the usual and proper way. Mr. Renall complained of the want of courtesy and temper displayed by the hon. Provincial Secretary. He hoped these angry feelings would be forgotten, and for his part he would always curb his temper so as not willingly to give offence to any one. The motion for adjournment was then agreed to.