Wednesday Morning Nov. 2. EXECUTIVE BILL.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IX, Issue 862, 5 November 1853, Page 3

Wednesday Morning Nov. 2. EXECUTIVE BILL.

On the motion that this Bill he read a second time , . „■%_, Mr. Wakefield said he. understood that the present was the right occasion for discussing the principles, of the Bill, and not its details. He should, therefore, confine himself to general considerations, except as he might refer to particular plauses of the Bill as illustrating its principles. The right time for cons dering details would he when the Bill should be in Committee o^the whole House. He perceived that some suph measure was indispensably required. He^had heard it said, that the Superintendent was authorisecLby the Constitution Act to perform" tne , functions of head of, tble ..Provincial,.. Executive/ He believed" that this. .Qpfrjid&j'was entirely mistaken/ The Constitution' B 'Act differed from other instruments/ dfa fiWkind, as respects the Provincial Governments, inasmuch "as it did not create any ProvinciaffExecutive, but left that work to be perforrii&f by the Provincial Legislatures, which were^So far constituent bodies. At present the Superintendent could not lawfully create any office, or appoint any officer whatever, not evenc &■ constable. Nor was there now, in the absence of the General Assembly, any legislative^ authority in New Zealand, excepting only the provincial legislatures, which could lawfully invest the Superintendents with Executive powers. Nothing, therefore, could be plainef than the necessity of this measure and of promptitude in disposing of it. In another -point of view, it was a most important measure;" since it involved the whole question of the means by which responsible government was to" tfe established. The House would, he trusted; bear in mind -that there is no general legislature for New Zealand. The great subject of responsible government might probably have been most satisfactorily dealt with, in the beginning, by the General Assembly, which would have set an useful example to the Provincial' Legislatures ; but as things, had- turned (Aq use words which had lately fallen from an honorable friend of his, a member of thef'House for Wellington) the colony had fiow got six supreme Provincial Legislatures and one subordinate [ General Legislature. Indeed it was worse than

that: the f six provincial governments were substantial ; * the one 1 general government a mere shadow. Therefore it behdved the 'Council to be very careful and considerate in dealing with the question of responsible 'government. It appeared t6 him t;hat there was a deficiency in the Bill, which deserved Tseridtfs attention* The first clause, %hi6h vested all executive authority in the Superintendent-, did riot provide that Ms "acts should only be done by and with the advice of an Executive Cduricil. In England, there was no written provision, for preventing the Crown from acting without the advice of responsible ministers ; but rid part of the constitution was better understood* or more firmly established. Tn all colonies, where responsible government exists, such a provision, in the constitution itself, was regarded as the main security for responsibility in the Executive. He knew of no colonial constitution, which did not contain this provision. ' That Council was, on^the present occasion, acting as a" constituent "body ; * and it behoved them not tO'"omit what ini^ht be /considered one of the chief securities for responsible government.-.,', When- the Bill should be in Committee, he would" move to amend the first clause bo as to supply this deficiency. The Bill provided that members of- the fexecutive , Council should retire from -office along with the , Superintendent. Why? He saw no -reason for this provision. In England, some pnn- 1 cipal offices were vacated by the demise of the Crown, but the retirement of a Governor whether by death or removal was, in no colonial constitution, made the cause of retirement from office by members of the Executive. If the provision were ' retained, executive government would be brougnt to a stand still, whenever the office of Superintendent should ' be vacant. He trusted that the Council would, ' in committee, be induced to expunge the clause. A third and very important question] remained — that of whether or not the -Act ought to provide for the retirement of members of that Council accepting office of trust or emolument under the Superintendent. His Honor, in his speech to the had specially left the question for their decision, though he seemed to be of opinion himself, that it was not expedient to send back to their constituents, for re-election, members of Council who should accept office. He (Mr. Wakefield) partially agreed with his Honor. He cJould not but see that, at least in the present state of affairs, it would be most inconvenient that the House should be adjourned in order to enable members accepting office to be re-elected. But at the same time he had a jealous regard for that principle of Responsible government, on which a law provided that members of the representative body accepting office should return to their constituents for re-election. He trusted that some means might be '&e vised, -whereby that most valuable principle wofild be maintained, without subjecting the Province to the evils of a long adjournment of the Council justat, this time, when prompt legislation was so much needed, and the public expected so much good from the labours of the Council ; and unless, as he", trusted might be t"he case,, this matter : were taken out of his .hands by the honorable and learned ni ember who introduced the Bill (Mr Brandon), he should 'endeavour, in Committee, to franfe a clause which would preserve the principle of the responsibility of members of that house to their constituents, and yet render unnecessary any interruption, of the labours of the 'Council at the present time. He trusted that the matter would be considered by honorable members connected with the 'Government, before the Council should go into Committee on the Bill. Mr. Brown was glad the principle was mooted; as he thought no countenance should be given to the shadow of irresponsible power ; . he conceived they ought to be very jealous of any departure from the principles practised in England. Mr. Ludlam felt it the duty of every member not to give a silent vote on s6 important a subject las that now before the Council. The hon. member for the Hutt (Mr.Wakefield)had expressed a wish that some member of longer residence and more experience in the Colony would have spoken on this subject before him ; but he (Mr! L.) considered the hon. member's experience of responsible government in Canada and the mother country entitled to great weight-, and was of opinion that such a Bystem should, under whatever difficulties, be adopted at once in this Province-. He (Mir. L.) admitted there were inconveniences and difficulties in adopting it, and doubted whether there were sufficient materials at present in the Province to carry it out successfully at first. • It was true they expected additions to their population, but at present very few persons were in a position to devote sufficient leisure to party politics. ' He thought if this system were adopted, it should be adopted, in its, integrity, and that it should -be imperative for members to resign their seats oil accepting office under his Honor the Superintendent ; they should nbt adopt one part of a systeni, and leave the inconvenient part to another period. If a member, on 'accepting office", resigned'his seat, if he were 1 re-elected it'would be an intimation that his constituents approved of his appointment It might be a i question whether all the members of tfae Exe- ' ctitive Government should not be members of the Council. He agreed with his colleague (Mr. Wakefield) that " an inconvenience Would arise with the Executive, if they resigned their I seats at this period of the Session, but if they desired responsible government, they would carry it out in good faith. Mr. FiT^iiEßßEtiT hoped, aftet the full and clear statements he had made yesterday on the subject of responsible government, "that he would have been spared the necessity, on the present occasion, of entering into further explanations on this subject, that tlie attempt on the part of those who acted with him to carry on the Government would have been considered worthy of cordial co-operation and support. He trusted the spirit of yesterday's discussion would forward the bill with the utmost speed ; he hoped the principle would not be pressed, it being Understood that an alteration would be made in committee, if deemed expedient. With reference to that part- relating to the re-tirement-of the Executive, it must be left to their good faith ; he thought sufficient guarantees had been given that there would be no

want of good faitfe, coupled as they were with distinct assuraifc&s on the one part. It had been said that w&e'n it became apparent the Executive had . lost the confidence of the 5 'CtftfßcsS if should be )eft to them te--resign ? hut he'tfeotrglrt the responsibility of calling on' the Exeewtire'to resign thould rest with thosethat opposed them-; he thongirt; it exceedingly undesirable that any.^set of men, if he might be pardoned tbe expression, sfaould stink irt office ; and t"he opposition irould be the bestjudges "whether tiiose? in office fated lost confidence. He thought a certain degree 'of respon^ sibility Vested on thfr opposition as well as on those whd held office. He thought it was not only competent in them to-pass a vote "of "want of confidence tinder vttch circnmstatncßs^- "baft that it Would be their duty i& da so. ' He '(Mr. F.) gloried in responsibility, 'but he would ndt diminish the responsibility of those on tlie other side the house. On this" question he would not give a VOte, but it was impossible heshould hereafter be misunderstood, "fhe principle would be attended with a certain practical inconvenience, and he would suggest that it should be merely suspended for a. time, to allow this experiment to be fairly carried 'out, Mr.WAKEFrtsiJ) would not enter 1 largely into the question of moral responsibility ; he conceived it would be absurd for the Executive toresign every time it was out- Voted. • He ' adverted to the circumstances of yesterday when. the question was decided in favour of -the 'Go* I vernment party by the Speaker's' casting vote. Every one would Understand when the Government was in a minority-; but it would not be necessary on such occasions to come to a vote of want of confidence, which was always irritating, and ought «lways, where .possible, tobe avoided. Mr. Mookb, 'On a 'question 'of -such .great importance, thought, in accordance with what had just been said , by the mejnber.for the Hutt '(Mr. I/adlam-,) that it- was the 'duty*of every member to give his reasons' for his vote, and therefore, however imperfectly he might do« 0, he would endeavour to state his views. This question, involving as it did dn his mind the fnost vital principle of 'responsible government, ought to be oarried out in its' integrity, of 'only abandoned under the strongest plea of necessity. It had been proposed to 'hold it in suspension or abeyance, 'to -postpone it for some indefinite period ; he thought this would produce great dissatisfaction 'in the public mind, -and a feeling df disappointment of the expectations always held out in .regard to free institutions would remain in his mind, if a full and fre"e recognition of the principle was not adopted. On all the occasions during past years, when the "parties who assumed to have taken the most -active part- in struggling for and advocating the introduction of representative and responsible government, put forth their sentiments, not one word had been hinted, not a doubt put forward abjout the inconvenience or impracticability of their full and free enjoyment; on the contrary, it had always been asserted, if the Obstacles were once removed; if the'pOwer sought 'for was' once obtained, that was all that was required. , Iv the address of his itonorthe 'Superintendent on the day of his election, > he had noted an expression 6f something bearing, upon . tbis, which he would quote. After alluding to the great advantages and privflegeß conferred by the Constitution' Act, Ms Honor said, '" had ysu not, in Tact, declared your determination never to rest satisfied with any thing short of a full and complete measure of responsible government, depend upon 'it New Zealand wtiuld not have heard of such a constitution 'ior years to come." Now, he would ask, was it ft full and complete measure if this great principle were to* be left -in abeyance ? If in fact only an instalment was to be had, he. felt quite sure much, disappointment wOuld be- the refcult, more' especially as fae believed the late elections were all carried on/ in the belief .on the part of the electors, that the fullest and freest scope would be given to the principle of responsibility in our future government. If, in" its working, inconveniences arose, and he admitted that might be the case, he thdught they would be, and ought to be, submitted to for the sake of the principle ; and ujho would feel them, who would suffer from them m*re than the people themselves ; and they, would 3oon find the remedy for'tifciem. At any rate, it was better to suffer some inconvenience than, to" begin on V wrong track, upon, which it would be difficult to go back. If ever the principle were to be acted upon,, if ever its introduction were practicable^ the time for.it was now ; he would alway« v be content to rely on. the votes and voice of the. people for his position ; and he believed,, as a rule, that those who accepted office might fearlessly do so ; heshould therefore strongly support the adoption of .the '••'.. • ' - Mr. KenaiX spoke in favour of the principle of re-election, on members accepting office. Mr. RbvanS- thought they should be careful in placing themselves in a difficulty. In the English Government, ,a portion of the ministry had seats in the House of Lords, and, therefore there was always a part of, the ministry left to conduct the Government. Here there were only three members of the Executive in the Council, and if, for the sake of argument, one of these waa supposed to represent a distant country dis* trict, a suspension of business might occur of a month or six weeks, and if he were not reelected, another appointment must take place, and consequently another delay. From the limited number^ of members, he thought tha principle at this stage would be attended with serious practical difficulties, and on this ground, ris a practical man of business, he Was opposed to its introduction at present The Bill was then read a second time, and the Council having gone into committee, afterwards adjourned to 3 o'clock" p.m-.