PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. MONDAY, OCTOBER 31ST.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IX, Issue 861, 2 November 1853, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. MONDAY, OCTOBER 31ST.

The Council met at 3 o'clock. I

STAVDIKG ORDEKS. The Council having . resolved itself iato. Committee on the Standing Orders—Mr. Fitzhkbbcrt said -he would submitfor their adoption the Standing Orders of the Legislative Council at Sydney, which had; been for several years in use,, and which had been found to work well. After some discussion it was agreed that the the Standing Orders of the Sydney Council should be read -over, and afterwards considered seriatim. The first clauses were read and agreed to. On the clause referring to the admission of Strangers being read — -Mr. Ludlak said he considered the public had -a right -to be admitted into the gallery without asking Admission of any one. On. the clause as to the number of members which should -form a' quorum being read, it was Agreed that not less than six members should form & quorum. Copies of Despatches were received from the Superintendent explaining the financial arrangements entered into between the General and Provincial Government — Ordered to lie on the table. Ithe Committee having resumed, on the clause referring to Strangers being ordered to withdraw on divisions of the Council being read. Mr. Wake>fj£ld .objected to this rale that it would cause unnecessary inconvenience. Thte House of Commons always assumed that -no strangers were present and practically the rule wits found to be very inooriirvnient. Mr. Clifford said the rale only referred to strangers in the body of the House, in order that their presence might not interfere with the taking of divisions. The rales as to motions and Public Bills having been agreed to. On the 42nd clause being read, ' i "That every petition must be written in the English language, or be accompanied by a •■ translation certified by the member who shall i present it." I Mr. Fitzheubebt said he did not profess to • understand all the rules, but he supposed this ,; was framed for some wise purpose. Mr. Wakef i*ld thought the rule involved important -considerations, and should not be • hastily d sposed of, he was not .prepared to . give a decided 'opinion, and would suggest that its consideration should be postponed. Clause postponed. On clause 44 being read, f; "That no tetters, affidavit!, or other doi euments eh*U be attached to any petition, ex- "' peptin tbe case of .private Bill*, as hereinafter '! mentioned." l. | Mr. Bbow-n wished for some information as ' j to this rale. » Mr. Brandon said such documents wei'e ne7\7 \ cessary in private Bills to shew the forms of 5! the House had been complied with.

Mr. Wakefield thought another reason was that, to pre\ent the petitions from Wing overlonded with a quantity of matter, the rule compelled the petitioner to put his case in a clear form. On the 4Gth clause being read, " That no petition shall, directly or mdi • rectly, pray for a grant of public money." Mr. FiTZHERBEttT s.iid it appeai-ed at first sight that petitions praying for grants of money should be addressed to the Council, which was invested with the control of money. But by the 25th clause of the Constitution Act it was not lawful for the Piwincial Council to pa«.s, or for the Superintendent to assent to any bill appiopviatnig any money to the public service unless the Superintendent shall first have recommended to the Council to make provision for the specilic sen ice to which such money was to be appropriated. The effect of the rule was, therefore, to spare the Council unnecessary trouble, as ultimately such petitions must he referred to the Superintendent. Mr. Ludlam wished this point to be fully considered. No amount could be placed ,ou the estimates except by the Superintendent, but all money must be voted by the Council, by whose advice the Superintendent was to act. He was of opinion the petition should be considered by the Council, and if approved of by them, they might pass a resolution referring it to the Superintendent. If the petition were referred to the Superintendent in the first instance, he might not approve of it, and the petition might be laid aside. He would wish to fece the clause struck out. Mr. FiTZHEitBERT said that would be in direct opposition to the first standing order. Mr. WaiiEfield said this was another occasion which cabled for a repetition of his former remark. The rale involved a number of constitutional principles, and he was not prepared to go into the subject now. He would mention that in Canada along with responsible Government it was settled that no vote of money could be introduced in the House except by the Governor. No doubt this rule was taken by the New South Wales Council from the orders of the House of Commons. I Mr. Moore was one of those who did not feel disposed to adopt these orders as a whole, and therefore thought it better that a discut - sion should be raised upon them. He was of opinion that this Council was the legitimate channel through which petitions should pass ; it would be more in accordance with his own feelings, and he believed it would be so with the public generally, that this should be the case ; at any rate, it ought to be competent to this Council to recommend to the Superintendent th it grants of money for proper objects be placed upon the estimates, and there ought to be no objection to the receiving of [ petitions to that effect. He thought it a privilege of the people, and would be sorry to see it closed against them. He should be glad to see the further consideration of this rule postponed. The further consideration -of the clause was then postponed. On the clause referring to £ rivdte Bills i>eing rciul, " That no private Bill shall be "brought linto this Council but upon a petition first 'presented, with a printed copy of the proposed Bill annexed'; and such petition shall be signed by one or more of the parties app'viug'for'the Bill* Mr. LfrDLAM wished to be Informed what was to be considered a private Bill. Mr. Brown was of opinion that everything not under the head of. public expenditure 'was. to be included under this head. Mr. Brandon explained that any Bill affecting any particular locality would be regarded as a private Bill. Mr. Renall thought the definition by the last speaker incorrect ; if the Bettlers in the Wairarapa required an Act to be passed for that district, the Council could hardly come to the decision that it was a private bill. Mr. Brown considered that those bills must be regarded as private Bills -which affected private interests only. Mr. Wakefield said it was apparent there was a want of definition in this order, and that it was one which might very properly be reserved for further consideration. The Council might reserve the right to determine what was a private bill, but unless the Public clearly understood what bills were to be considered private, and what public, it would be productive of great inconvenience. If the clause •were framed so as to determine clearly -what were private bills, the business of the Council \rould go' on smoothly enough. Clause withdrawn, Mr. Fitzherbert suggested that a Select Committee should be appointed for the further of the Standing Or. ders.

VOTE 'OP MONET. A message was received from the Superintendent .asking of the Council the appropriation of the sum of £'900 to pay the several sums due by the Government the Ist of November. Mi\ Fitzherbert moved, in conformity with the message, that the Superintendent be authorized to issue his warrants for payment* not exceeding in amount the sum of £900 ; he would further observe this vote Mas in anticipation of the Appropriation Bill, but the necessity of the case was a justification, in order that the- credit of the Piovince should be maintained, that a resolution should be passed to pay current expenses. Mr. Brown objected to the passing of a resolution of such importance in so hasty & manner. Mr. Revans supported the resolution on the ground of necessity ; if the Council had < met a fortnight earlier, more time would have been allowed for consideration, but if the resolution were now postponed it would discredit the Province, and place the Superintendent and Council in a false position. Mr. Ludlam agreed in a great measure with what had fallen from Mr. Brown, but ho also thought with Mr. Revans that they should not allow the credit of the Pro\ince to suffer b) r not passing this \<>tt\ Tt vwis <i lncisaie ot' ex >edn.'iic\ and voukl not brad them tv anj print ipk

Mi. lloohe was sorry to find the Council called upon in this hurried 'manner to pass a \ote of such importance. Whether a necessity existed for such haste or nor, or whether it might not by a little foresight ha\e been premiglit he matter for 'opinion, and it was only under the plea of the urgent necessity which had heen stated that he consented to pass, such a vote at a minute's notice. Mr. Bjuunov explained that many salaries were due to-morrow, and whatever sums the Superintendent was authorised to pay now would ho brought before- them in the Estimates The Superintendent was compelled' to bring the question before them in this form, as he did not wish to begin his reign with an illegal act. In all cases where supplies were asked for, time should be "given for consideration ; but it was simply to obviate incom enienco to the different parties to whom the payments were to be made that the question was brought forward. After some further discussion the resolution was agreed to.

SUPERINTENDENT S SPEECH. ' The Speaker said Mr. Wakefield was in possession of the House to move the consideration of the Superintendent's speech. Mr. Wakefield explained his motion was to the effect that the consideration of the Superintendent's speech should be the first business transacted after the passing of the standing orders. A supposition had got ahrood that he was going to raise a debate 'on the Superintendent's speech, but his object in making the motion had simply been that the Council should not separate without fixing a time for taking the speech into consideration. On the motion of Mr. Wakefield it was agreed that until the rales and standing or-, ders be settled, all questions of order shall be determined by the Speaker.

NOTICES OP MOTION. i Mr. Wakefield — to move, on an early day, that the number of members of this Council oujyKt to be increased. ' Mr. Be vans— to take into consideration tomorrow (Tuesday) t"he Superintendent's speech. Mr. Brandon — for leave to brinsj in a Bill for the establishment of an Executive for this Province, and a Bill "to vest in the Superintendent certain powers vested in the Gbverndr or Lieutenant Governor of the late Province of New Munster. Mr. — For the appointment of a' select committee to take evidence with a "view to the introduction of an Education Bill for this Province. Adjourned to to-morrow at 3 o'clock. !