INTERVIEW BETWEEN KOSSUTH & CLAY.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume VIII, Issue 740, 4 September 1852, Page 4

INTERVIEW BETWEEN KOSSUTH & CLAY.

We extract the following interesting account of an interview between Kossath and the veteran Statesman of America, from the Washington National Intelligencer : — M. Kossutb was introduced by Mr. Cass. On being presented to Mr. Clay, wbo rose to receive him,—" Sir," said be, " I thank you for the honour of this interview." "I beg you to believe," said Mr. Clay, interrupting him, " that it is 1 who am honoured. Will you be pleased to be seated ? " After the mutual interchange of civilities, — "I owe you, Sir," said Mr. Clay, "an apology for not >having acceded before to the desire you were kind enough to intimate more than orice to' see me. But really my health has been so feeble that I did not dare to hazard the'ex-citement of so interesting an interview. Besides, Sir," he added with some pleat antiy, "your wonderful and fascinating eloquence has mesmerised so large apportion -of our people, wherever you have gone, and even some of our Members of Congressj" — wayjng his hand towards the two or three , gentlemen who were present — "that I ; feared to conre under its influence, lest.you might 'shake my faith in some principles in regard to uhe foreign policy of this Government, which I . have long and constantly cherished. And in regard to this matter, you will allow me, I hope, to speak wi'h that sincerity and candour which become the interest the subject has Tor you and for myself, and which are due to us Loth, as the votaries of freedom. I trust you will believe me, too, when I tell you that I entertain ever the liveliest sympathies in every struggle for liberty — in Hungary, and in every country. And in this, I believe, I express the universal sentimeßt of my countrymen. But, Sir, for the sake -of my country, you must allow me to protest against the policy you propose to her. Waiving the grave and momentous question of the right of one nation to assume the executive power among nations, for the enforcement of international law, or of the right of the United States to dictate to Russia, the character of her relations with the nations around her, let us come at once to the practical consideration of the matter. You tell us yourself with great truth and propriety, that mere sympathy, or the expression of sympathy, , cannot advance your purposes. You require material aid. And, indeed, it is manifest that the' mere declarations of the sympathy of the Congress or of the President, or of the public, would be of little avail, unless we were prepared to enforce those declarations by a resort to arms, and unless other nations -could see that preparation and determination upon our part. Well, Sir, suppose that war should be the issue of the course you propose to us, could we then effect anything for you, ourselves, or the cause of liberty? To transport men and arms across the ocean in sufficient numbers and quantities to be effective against Russia and Austria would be impossible. It is a fact, which perEaps may not be generally known, that the most imperative reason with Great Britain for the close of her last war with us wai the immense cost of the transportation and maintenance of forces and the munitions of war on such a distant theatre ; and yet she had not, perhaps, more than thirty thousand men upon this continent at any time. Upon land Russia is invulnerable to us, as we are to her. Upon the ocean, a war between Russia and this country would result in the mutual annoyance to commerce, but probably in little else. I learned recently that lier war marine is superior to that of any nation in Europe, except, perhaps, Great Britain. Her port* are few, her commerce limited ; while we, on our part, would offer as a prey to her cruisers a rich and extensive commerce. Thus, Sir, after effectiug nothing in such a war, after abandoning 4)ur .ancient policy of amity and non-intervention* in -the affairs of other nations, and thus justifying them in abandoning: ''the terras of forbearance and non-interference which they have hitherto preserved towards vs — after the downfall, perhaps, of the friends of liberal institutions in Europe — her despots imitating and provoked by our fatal example, may turn upon ut in the lionr of our weakness and exhaustion, and, with an almost equally irresistible force.of reason and of arms, they may say to nsj 1 Yon have set ns the example; you bavfquit your own to stand on foreign ground ; you have abandoned the policy you professed in the day of your weakness, to interfere in the affairs of the people upon this continent, in behalf of those principles the supremacy of which you say ii ne-

. cessary to yoar prosperity, to your existence. ■- We, in oar tma, believing that your anarchical doctrines are destructive of, and that monarchical principles are essential to, the peace, security, and happiness of our subjects, will obliterate the bed which has nourished such noxious weeds : we will crush you, as the propagandists of doctrines so destructive of the peace and good order of the world/ The indomitable spirit of our people might and would be equal to the emergency, and we might remain unsubdued even by so tremendous a combination, but the consequences to us would be terrible enorigh. You , must allow me, Sir, to speak thus freely, as I feel deeply, though my opinion may be of but little import, as the expression of a dying man. Sir, the recent melancholy subversion of the republican government of France, and that enlightened nation voluntarily placing its neck under the yoke of despotism, teach us to despair of any present success for liberal institutions in Europe ; it gives us an impressive warning not to rely upon others for the vindication of our principles, but to look to ourselves, and to cherish with more care than ever the security of our institutions and the preservation of our policy and principles. By the policy to which we Lave adhered since the days of Washington, we have prospered beyond precedent ; we have done more fortbe cause of liberty in the Old World than arms could effect ; we have shown to other nations the way to greatness and happiness. And if we .Jbut continue united as one people, and persevere in i the policy which our experience has so clearly and triumphantly vindicated, we may in another quarter of a century furnish an example which the reason of the world cannot resist. But if we should involve ourselves in the tangled web of European politics, in a war in which we could effect nothing, and if in that struggle Hungary should go down, and we should go down with her, where then would be the last hope of the friends of freedom throughout the world ? Far better is it for ourselves, for Hungary, and for the cause of liberty, that, adhering to our wise pacific system, and avoiding the distant wars of Europe, we should keep our lamp burning brightly on this western shore, as a light to all nations, than to hazard its utter extinction amid the ruin* of fallen or failing -republics in Europe." Throughout Mr. Clay's remarks, M. Kossuib listened with the utmost interest and attention ; and, indeed, throughout the whole interview, he illustrated the rare combination of the profoundest respect without the smallest sacrifice of his personal dignity, exhibiting in all his hearing the most finished and attractive stamp which can be given to the true metal of genius. He did not enter, in bis turn, upon a controversy of Mr. Clay's views, but began by stating what he thought the reasons of the repeated failures to establish liberal institutions in France. Education and political information, he said, did not descend very deep into the masses of the French people ; as an illustration of which fact he stated that hundreds of thousands, when voting for the first time to elevate tbuis Napoleon to tbe Presidency, thought the old Emperor was still alive and imprisoned, and that the vote they then gave would effect his deliverance. He gradually diverted his remarks- to the affairs of Hungary, Austria, Russia and Turkey ; speaking of the exaggerated estimate of tbe strength of Russia,* of the strength and weakness of Turkey — her strength, which consisted in her immense land force, and especially in her militia, or landwehr, as he termed it; her weakness, which was the liability of the assault of Constantinople by sea. And here, apparently in allasion, to Mr. Clay's conviction of our being unable to effect anything in a European, war, he spoke of tbe material aid which might be rendered Turkey in a war with Russia, by a naval force for tbe protection of her capital. After a series of entertaining and instructive remarks about tbe condition and prospects of Europe generally, he rose and departed. Mr. Clay rose and bade him farewell for ever, with the utmost cordiality and kindliest sympathy beaming in his face and suffusing bis eye ; and, grasping Kossath's hand, he said, "God bless you and your family J <sod bless your country — may she yet be free." Kosauth, apparently overwhelmed by the warm and earnest sympathy thus exhibited for himself, his suffering family and country, profoundly bowing, pressed Mr. Clay** band to his heart, and replied in tones of deep emotion, " I thank, you, honoured sir ; I shall pray for you every day that your health may be restored, and that God may prolong your life!" Mr. Clay's eyes filled with tears, he again pressed the hand which clasped his own, probably for the last time, but be could say no more. Thus closed one of the most interesting scenes it has ever been the fortune of the writer to witness. Two such men rarely meet in this world ■ —the one, having finished the course of his destiny, having lived and acted through the better part of his country's lifetime, and with its growing greatness and renown having achieved his own ; the sun of his glorious career just going, down in unclouded brilliancy, and sending back the rays of its declining glory upon a happy land; ' the other, still acting, still "hoping and feafhlg, bis star just rising amid storms, and clouds, and darkness ; before him* all the vicissitudes of an uncertain future for himself and for his country ; the one, like a prophet of old, proclaiming the principles of the fathers of this country, to whom he was shortly to be gathered — those principles,, living by which that country had achieved her greatness ; the other, , like a scholar listening to catch the words of wisdom, and bear the lessons of experience, which should be treasured up, and which might yet one .day profit his country in ber pupilage. To pourtray that scene aright would challenge the skill of the poet . and the painter. The writer would rival too, the' art of a Handel and a Haydn, could he transmit to this paper tbe sweet melancholy cadence of tbe voice of the Hungarian exile, sounding, like tbe low melancholy wail of tbe stricken children of freedom, or the trumpet* toned voice of the old statesman, gathering some of its ancient strength,' and ringing almost as full and sonorous as - when in days of old its clarion peal sounded its note of cheer and: courage to m nation in its triumphal march to glory and to greatnesi. .