LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wellington, Saturday, Dec. 23, 1848.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume V, Issue 355, 27 December 1848, Page 2

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wellington, Saturday, Dec. 23, 1848.

The Council met at three o'clock. AULthe Members we're present. His Excelleripy^Jtbe Governor-in- Chief opened the proceedings by reading the following reply to the address of the Legislative Council : — "~ "" I feel much pleasure in complying with the wishes of the Legislative Council, as expressed in their address of the 22nd inst., by informing them, 1. That, I have reported it to Her Majesty's Government, as my opinion, that a complete system of representative government, of the form aftermentioned, may with safety be introduced into the' whole of the New Zealand Islands, at the date when the act suspending the Constitution recently conferred upon these Islands expires. . IA/.< ,'n 2. That Fflafte rejcohimended that; at thatdate,,a general assembly should be constituted for the, whole : lslands, consisting of a legislative council composed of persons sqmm.oned thereto by Her Majesty ; and of an assembly to be composed of representatives, returned by the several provinces into which New Zealand may be divided, in such proportions.' as the, European population of each province' may' bear to the European population of the whole Islands, in so nearly as these several amounts of population can be ascertained. 3. That I have further recommended that a legislative council, consisting of one chamber, should be constituted in each province j into which New Zealand may be divided,, to be composed. of persons summoned thereto- by Majesty, and of representatives elected thereto by the electors of the province ; in which chamber the Governor should not have a seat. • • ' '• ' 4... That I Have recommended that the General Assembly for the New Zealand Islands should possess in full the ample powers of legislation which are usually conferred upon such assemblies ; and that I have further recommended that the provincial legislative councils should have (until any alteration on that subject should be made by the General Assembly) the same powers of legislation as are conferred on the provincial legislative councils, by the ordinance which provides'; for the establishment of provincial legislative councils in the colony of New Zealand. 5. That I have recommended that those districts which desire to have municipal corporations, should have such institutions bestowed upon them ; but that the possession of the advantage of a provincial legislative council should in na way be made, dependent upon, a district accepting ' a Municipal corporation, or not : on the contrary, I have recommended that the , representatives sliould be returned by direct election, both to the .General Assembly and to the Provincial .Legislative Councils. t s"^ 6. That I have recommended that theirigfct of voting at elections should be exercised by . such European subjects of Her Majesty, as have either a small estate, of., freehold in possession,'in lands, or tenements, situated within the district for which suck vote is to be given, or are householders within such district, occupying a dwellings -'of a small annual* value ; and that I have further recommended that the right of voting at suck election* shoujd be

exercised by such Native subjects of ths Queen as are possessed of property, in Government securities, in vessels, or in tenements, within such district for which such vote is to be given, of the clear value of two hundred pounds, or who may be authorised to exercise such vote by a certificate granted to them for that purpose by the Governor-in-Chief; 7. In v reference to that portion of the address of the Council, inwhich they request me to state whether I have it in contemplation to take any immediate steps in conjunction with the Council, to secure' the adoption, at the earliest possible period, of the measures which I propose, — I have to state that I shall be glad, -?n conjunction with this Council, to request Her Majesty's advisers to cause the provisions of such a form of representative government, as I have detailed, to be embodied in an act of Parliament, to take effect from the period which I have named, or at such earlier date, as may for that- purpose; be proclaimed by the Governor- in- Chief, if in his opinion the state of the colony would justify him in so doing ; — but upon this latter point lam anxious' not to be considered as holding out any expectations which it may not be in my power to fulfil. His Excellency then stated that having read to the Council the general principles which he had recommended for the adoption of her Majesty's {Government, he would proceed to give some explanations- of bis reasons for that recommendation. The first point was as to the time at which he recommended this system to bejntroduced. In doing this it was almost necessary to travel back over the few last' years' in order that the whole plan' of por licy which he had adopted might ■be brought completely under their observation.' He would 'therefore remind hon. gentlemen that the period of bis arrival was one of almost universal distress. In the North the natives had been allowed to accumulate military stores. An, unfortunate event had taken place at' Wairau. There was open rebellion in the North; and there had been various skirmishes between .the military aad the natives. In the Southern Province the native population had been threatened that force would be us^.d to dislodge them from the Hutt, which-trhreat they not only treated with derision, but even made preparations for resistance. It was doubtful by what system a revenue could be raised ; various plans had been tried, and the financial state of the country had been further embarrassed by the issue of debentures which had been made a legal tender, and which were in a depreciated state. Such, in brief, was the general aspect of the country at the time of his arrival. Each part of the colony had also its peculiar difficulties. He would not go into detail, but would merely mention a few facts. The European population could hardly be said to possess any land ; that which had been purchased from the natives they refused to give up, and in addition there was scarcely a European settler but had his own disputes with the natives from these causes ; and further, a large body of natives had congregated at Porirua, a place at that time almost inaccessible by land. In the Noith, in addition to these, other difficulties prevailed almost worse than those he had named. In such a state of things he thereupon formed an extensive plan, and one which would require a series of years for its development. One portion of that plan was "that the native population should be taxed as-Avell -as the European, and that they should be enriched and civilized. He concluded! therefore, that the duty of Great Britain was to establish an effective government in these islands, and to pay by foreign funds the -cost of that government until they shauld.be in a position to bear such a charge themselves. That plan had been; approved and pursued by the Home Government. He' would now state what means he had taken to effect these objects. In the first place he applied himself to adjust, the differences between; the Europeaus and the natives. In the second place, it was necessary that Wellington should be' connected with extensive tracts of land, and. that woxks of magnitude should be completed -without delay. Those works were not only immediately Commenced, but natives were employed in, their execution with a view to civilize them and make them look jo. the Government as benefactors, to accustom them to the use of European tools and implements, and to enable them to bring their produce to market much better, than before, and .hereafter to supply;. labour to the colonists by" their having been accustomed to the use of. European tools. ; Another point was the improvement of the lower class of the European population ; to teach the natives European labour and to work with Europeans by employing a large number of Europeans with the natives, and by employing the Europeans on the roads leading to. their own farm's,- to, give them, the mean's "of improving and extending their cultivations.' He could point to other features in his plan of- policy bearing on the amalgamation of the tvro'^vifcei, but he thought he had stated enough tV4!iew'' his plan of policy. "- He would appeal to hon.

( gentlemen whether that plan had not been effective. (Hear, hear.) His plan also contained other and ulterior views. In the first i place little could be done unless they secured , the rising generation, and therefore a plan of education was also necessary. That had been carried out to some extent in the North of the island, a"nd he hoped soon to see it carried out also in the South.' l His main object, was to shew that the plan 'of policy which he had adopted required a series of years for its complete fulfilment. . These circumstances led to the belief that to attempt any change could only lead to disastrous consequences. , He wolald' remark that at the present moment no One could say whac were the boundaries of the Provinces. He would also point oqt that the European population, in proportion to the native, was small, but that every year would decrease that disproportion, and that if the present state of prosperity were suffered to continue, the influx of immigration would cause that disproportion to cease, at the same time that the native's were becoming daily ra.ore assimilated to European's. There was however one obvious defect in this plan of policy. It provided only for putting New Zealand into a state of order, bat it provided nothing for the future Government of the country, and it was clear 'that when the country had been put into a state of- perfect order 'and., tranquillity, people might- vbe- dissatisfied! with that form of Government which at' present existed. 'It "'was % therefore proper .that > some changes should' be made in the- existing form of Government, J So'that a representative!system of Government might gradually be developed concurrently with the plans for securing the prosperity of the country which« were going on, so that when that' prosperity was assured,' a' guarantee for its maintenance might be afforded in 1 the complete representative form of Government which then existed.' 'He attributed his success in a great measure to the Various naval and military officers employed in carrying out his policy. It was his opinion her Majesty had never been better served in any colony than in New' Zealand, and to them he would look for completing the development of his plans. What course he proposed to pursue for the future was contained in the paper which he had read. He 'had do doubt hou. gentlemen would see the objects he had in view were, first, to complete the pacification of these islands, and further, to' form those institutions which would 'be further developed m hen thoseendswere attained. He had stated to hon. gentlemen that the Representative -Assembly would consist of a Legislative Council composed of persons summoned thereto by her Majesty, and ofanassembly to be 'composed "of representatives returned by the several provinces into which New Zealand may be divided ;and in another part that the representatives should l)e returned by direct election both to the General Assembly and to the Provincial Legislative Councils. What induced him to recommend that ihe provinces should be all under one government consisting of two chambers, one nominated by the Crown 'and the other by the people, was that thai form of Government prevailed most extensively and was found to answer best throughout the British colonies, and it might also 1 be 4esirable to return to the Provincial Councils persons who would not be •suitable for the General 1 Assembly. He had told the Council that he had recommended a Legislative Council cou's'isting of one chamber in> each Province, .to be composed of persons summoned thereto by her Majesty, and of representatives- elected by the electors of; the Province, lq which chamber the Governorshould not;hav.ej,a seat.. He should, in stating the composition of these .Provincial CouncUsj.have stated the-powtrs' conferred on them, • which were those- of the present Council. The reason he had not recommended two Councils in each Province was, first, that there might be great difficulty in obtaining fit persons for two chambers-?— secondly, with settlements at so great a distance large powers should, in the first instance, be given to the separate Councils. That eventually the General' Assembly would absorb a great portion of those powers and they would relapse into mere Provincial Councils. He had informed the Council that- he did not consider sdch Provincial L'^gislative Council should be made dependent on the district accepting a Municipal Corporation or not. The reasons were obvious. It might be distasteful to many settlements to have a corporation, and secondly, a person might be an excellent membet of a corporation but a very Bad represent tative, of.a Province. The settlers would probably rather choose representatives themselves than a Council who should elect- those representatives. 'He then proceeded to the question of the franchise. He had recommended that the right of voting should be exercised by suclv -European' subjects of her Majesty as have' either a sraa'U estate- of' freehold in, posjsgssiph m Taisds!or tenements situated within .ttie district, for, which soph vote is'-givej^or are householders within such, district occupying a dwelling' of a small annualvalue. He

had not touched on the educational qualifications contained in Lord Grey's scheme, the only points'were that the franchise shoulJ be given to persons holding small estates or who were 'smill householders. The qualificuion should be as small as possible, for he had observed that persons of the labouring class leaving England and settling in the colonies w«re more competent to be trusted with the powers of election than the same class at home. This he ascribed to several causes. First, to the activity of the religious bodies and the share which each man took in the management of the affairs of his church. Sei condly, the possession of a small landed estate compelled persons, in looking after their affairs, to obtain a greater degree of information ; for example, it was seldom that persons of that class in England were concerned in the conveyance of an estate, it was almost universally found that persons possessed of a small property in a colony took an active interest in its prosperity, and in the management of its affaiis, much more so than in England, and it was generally found that persons of that class take just views of public questions, in fact he (the Governor) would rather throw hiaiself on them than on the inhabitants of seaport towns. For these reasons, therefore, he had recommended that as far as Europeans are concerned, the franchise 'should be extensive. Next, as to the natives. He had only thrown out a hint, as some natives might wish to have a share in the legislation, but he would leave that point to the .General Assembly; hon. gentlemen would see that this plan presented some advantages. For some years questions of delicacy might arise as to the natives, such questions for the present would be left to the General Assembly. He believed New Zealand would be divided into four Provinces, he knew that it would be' divided into three. — If into four, then there' would be three of those Provinces in which there were .comparatively few or no natives, and consequently in the chamber there would be a majority who might be supposed to take dispassionate views of the native question. He would also point out, that should the Governor be induced by apy extraordinary pres- i sure to give his as-ent to measures injurious to the natives, such measures must be sent home, where they would be fully discussed in the British papers, and the negative of the Crown would no doubt prevent their coming into operation. He would add a few other remarks, first, he thought it an essential part of his plan that as far as possible the native question should be adjusted before Representive Institutions were introduced, and for that purpose the Government were making every exertion to arrange the different native questions in this Province, and to procure such land as might be required for the use of the settlers. Anotherpoint was the establishment of a complete system of education, and he hoped in the summer to see, two colleges established in the Southern Province. The Council had asked him to give them some guarantee that the plan which he had recommended should be adopted at the earliest period. The .Council would see that the form of constitution in New Zealand at the preseut moment Was similar to that proposed, with the single exception that now the whole Council consisted of persons Hamed by the Government, I without reference to those holding office. Secondly, there was at the present moment in each Province a Provincial Legislative Council which represented in the extent of its powe'fs those proposed, and by these an experiment would be tried to see if they work _well, and How this form of Government would answer; — further, hon. gentlemen would see that all he could do would be to sketch out a "skeleton, leaving the details to be filled in by other persons ; these details could only be , decided by such a Council as the present, rsucn power could only be exercised by persons of local experience, conducting their deliberations in public/ and" responsible to the public for the advice they might give to the Government. He thought, therefore, he acted wisely in pursuing that course, and in obtaining the advice of the present Council. He had now answered all their questions, and should be happy at any future time to give them further details. He would only mentionone other point. He had pledged himself to reconimend the adoption of measures containing the general principles he had stated ; whether he cojald recommend any other plan was another question ; but he felt confident that this plan would satisfy a large portion- of the community, and that it would work well for the prosperity of the country. > Mr. Bell enquired whether the session was to be adjourned, or whether its sittings' were to^be permanent.

'His Excellency stated that he proposed to adjourn the 1 Council sine die, bat if the Council 'wished to enter into any further discussion on this subject they- could do so in his absence as well as in his presence. He thought he had made himself so far understood that the Council would not require any further expla-nation-'from himself personally.

Mr. Bell then moved that his Excellency's reply be printed.

The Colonial Secretary then gave notice of the following motion : — That the Council do resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council 'for the purpose of taking into consideration the reply of His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief to the address of the Legislative Council of the 22nd inst. Some further discussion ensued in the course of which his Excellency stated that the persons composing the Councils of the Provinces of Otago and Canterbury, would probably be appointed from home, and would bring with them a number of valuable laws, particularly those relating to the conveyance of property, in which they would be assisted by the ablest lawyers, and it might hereafter be found desirable to borrow many suggestions from them. The Councilthen resumed the consideration of the standing orders, when the Rules from No. 34 to 46 inclusive were adopted. The Council then adjourned until 2 o'clock Tuesday. (The proceedings of the Council on Tuesday will be reported in our next number.)