LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume III, Issue 146, 23 December 1846, Page 3

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

The Governor's Establishment, In reply to a question from Mr. Domett, the Governor stated, that the interpreter was the only person attached to his establishment that was not paid from home funds. Amount agreed to — £756. . Superintendent of the Southern Division. Mr. Domett rose to object to this item, not that be expected to see it expunged from the estimates, for perhaps it might as well continue for the short time the office was to remain — but he merely wished to show tho feeling that was entertained at Wellington towards the Superintendent. That officer did nothing to entitle him to such a salary ; for while the Governor for the time being happened to be at Wellington, the work was performed by himself; but in the absence of his Excellency there was nothing whatever done, except, indeed, so much as invariably produced more mischief than good. The people at Wellington never looked upon this officer as one appointed for their benefit ; on the contrary, their interests were retarded by bis interference.

The Governor said that it was necessary tbatthere should be an officer at Wellington, not only to hear the coraplaiuts of the inhabitants, both native and European, but also to conespond with the Government at Auckland; and such an officer oould not be dispensed with. A' clerk and interpreter was required, where native complaints were so numerous, and this expense, with the rent of an office, and a small sum for contingencies, were all included in the item set down for the Superintendent's department. His Honor's salary was £500, and when the forage for a horse was taken from that sum, he, the Governor, did not think that it was at all too high. It would be desirable that an officer of intelligence and ability should be at the head of affairs at each settlement, for the purpose of hearing and deciding upon differences that might arise on the spot ; and a very great amount of business of this nature had to be performed by the officer at Wellington. Mr. Domett did not wish to persist in his opposition, but if the services of the Superintendent had been hitherto confined to the arrangement of differences between the natives and the settlers, he had done very little towards a reconciliation. The Governor said he was always glad to stand up and speakfor absent officers who had no opportunity of replying for themselves. It •would be right that the council and the public should know the difficulties under which the Superintendent had laboured in his office. Within twelve months he had no less than three different protectors sent him from Auckland, two of whom had objected to his plans and arrangements respecting the natives, and remonstrated with him on the subject. These opinions, no doubt conscientiously, and perhaps properly made, were the source of great difficulty to that officer — and he might be said to have 'had nothing to do with the management of the natives. He, the Governor, upo.u his arrival at Wellington, saw that the Superintendent was labouring under the same disad- • vantages in dealing with the natives, that he himself had felt at Auckland, which had induced him to dispense with the services of the protectors, and appoint a native secretary. He had, therefore, appointed a clerk and interpreter to the Superintendent, who would be under his control, to act instead of the protector, who had been hitherto an ambassador from Auckland, and was not responsible to the Superintendent. He would like to see an officer, similar to that of Superintendent, also at Nelson, and hoped that such would soon be the case. Such a class of officers would be exceedingly desirable; their appointment would prevent the necessity of referring all little matters of dispute to the Governor, for such affairs coulil be tried upon their own k merits, 'and arranged with greater satisfaction, and less delay, upon the spot. The Attorney General said that the appointment of Superintendent was made at the solicitation of the New Zealand Company. Mr. Domett begged to differ from the learned Attorney General ; the New Zealand Company applied for a very different appointment — it was a Lieutenant-Governor they - required. After some remarks from Mr. Donnelly, in snpport of the -Attorney General's ■statement, the item of £888 was agreed to. Colonial Secretary. Mr. Kennedy thought the salary of the Co- ' lonial Secretary was too low when compared with that of. the> Colonial Treasurer and Surveyor General. The Colonial Secretary was *the next highest, on the civil establishment, to ■>tbe Governor, and his salary should not certainly be lower than that of the officers he had named. The Governor observed, that the salaries of the officers mentioned by the hon. member, increased annually from the date of their appointment. That of the Colonial Secretary, for the present year, amounted to £620 ; the .reason why it was lower than the others was, ■because the Colonial Secretary had been but a short -time in office. Upon the item for the Native Secretary, the Governor observed, that on his arrival here he found that the management of the natives of the country was in the hands of a Protectorate department, and he at once felt, with the Superintendent at the southward, that the difficulties which would arise in governing the natives in connexion with the protectors would be great., He could easily see that in a country 'where there were 120,000 of a native population to govern, it would be necessary that he should have direct control, and that his policy should be carried out without restraint or interference ; or else, thert should be two Governors — one of whom «hould be for the natives alone. The office of Native Secretary was, therefore, instituted instead of the former, protectors, because he conceived that a qualified individual holding this office under his own immediate control, would be all that Was necessary for carrying on a correspondence with the natives. If, for instance, the question of peace or war

should erise, or tbe taxation oi the natives became necessary, so long as tbe protectorate remained he would be subject to their interference, which, doubtless, might be made upon conscientious grounds — but then his plans which, perhaps, would require immediate execution, by such delay might be frustrated. The Government then, he conceived, who were responsible for their acts, should have immediate control over the natives without any secondary interference whatever. The amount of £1535 was then agreed to for the Colonial Secretary's department. Colonial Treasurer. Mr. Kennedy thought that as there was an alteration proposed in the Treasury department, by the appointment of Sub- Treasurers at Wellington and Nelson, the salary of the Colonial Treasurer here would bear reduction. He would, therefore, propose that the salary for that officer should be reduced £100. Mr. Donnelly seconded the motion. The Colonial Secretary contended that although the Treasurer's salary was not piovided for by the Parliamentary grant, yet as it had been fixed at home, the Council should not interfere. When men were appointed to offices in the colonies by the Home Govern<ment, and they accepted these offices upon of receiving certain salaries, it would »be manifestly unjust to at once deprive them of a portion of the amount for which they engaged to perform the duties of the office. The hon. Colonial Treasurer's duties would not be materially relieved by appointments at the south, for all the accounts from those districts would still be forwarded for examination to the Colonial Treasury. He would, therefore, most strenuously oppose thereduction proposed. Mr. Donnelly objected to the principle laid down by the hon. Colonial Secretary, that the salaries fixed at home, but levied in this colony, should not be subject to the revision of the Council. If this principle was once admitted, there might as well be no Council -convened to vote upon the expenditure of the colony. Really, it was a most absurd position, and one which, if it could be maintained, would tend to swamp the resources of the colony in providing for whatever number of officers the .Government at home should think fit to impose upon us. He was astonished to hear such a statement from the Colonial Secretary. It was, no doubt, the duty of the Governor to exercise a paternal solicitude for the officers of his government : but it was equally his bounden duty to see that no >extravagance should take place in the appropriation of the funds of the colonists. The Governor said he would confess that he had been wanting in tact in giving cause for this discussion. He was not aware till that moment, that the Colonial Treasurer's salary was not included in the Government grantj; if he had known that the salary was chargeable upon the colony, he would have made such previous arrangements as would have saved an honorable member of thatcoun--cil the unpleasantness of listening to a discussion, like the present, relative to himself. Mr. Domett thought that if the Home Government appointed officers for the colony, they should pay their salaries. The Governor remarked, that his honorable friend, the Colonial Secretary, and the other members who had stated their views on the subject, had all seemed to misunderstand the relation in which the colony stood to the Home Government respecting these salaries. Now, he was prepared to say, that if the colony had to provide for all its officers, then he, would come down to that council determined most .unflinchingly to oppose the grant of a single farthing more than what the colonists could really afford to pay. But the real state of the case was, that the- Home Government had most liberally granted for the use of tbe colony a large sum annually — but upon this condition, that the colony should pay the engagements which had been entered into for its government. It was hardly fair to reduce the pay of officers so appointed, for'their prospects would thus be subject to continual change, if their salaries were made liable to annual alteration. The fairest way would be, if the council deemed it wise to make reductions, to recommend sucii course to the Home Government, and in all likelihood arrangements would be made that would give satisfaction to all concerned. The Attorney General said, the Charter of the Colony prevented even the Governor from reducing the salaries of officers appointed by Her Majesty. If he had not seen that the general wish was, at any rate, to preclude additional expense for the Treasurer's department, he would have proposed a sum for an additional clerk ; he believed it was now necessary for the hon. Colonial Treasurer to pay a clerk out of his own salary, in order that the business of his office should be properly attended to. The Governor said, that no officer should be suffered to incur the expense of an individual to perform public duties of the Government; he did not like that system;, and if

really required another clerk, he would take cafe that there should be one provided. He might say, however, that in South Australia, where there had been an expenditure varying in several years from, £30,000 to £80,000, the Treasurer, with one clerk, did the business efficiently ; and, yet, he was enabled to perform the duties of Registrar of Deeds also. The council should remember that, if they voted any increase in the Treasurer's department here, they should be prepare 1 to make a similar allowance for Wellington ; but he really thought there was no necessity for the addition, as he was confident that the work of the office could be performed by the Treasurer himself, with the help of an efficient clerk, and he appealed to the hon. member, Mr. Kennedy, who had had considerable experience in banking, whether his opinion was not correct. The Colonial Treasurer would only remark upon what had fallen from bis Excellency. He wished that the Governor would appoint any four persons to inspect the business of the Treasury, and he would be bound to say that their opinion would go to the effect, that any two individuals were totally incompetent to perform the duties of the Treasury. He was aware that it appeared very strange that so large an establishment should be required to manage the accounts of an expenditure of £40,000; but it was the arrangement and ■supervision of the accounts ifom the other settlements, re-adjusting those often returned from England, and the great mass of work, had arisen out of the Debenture system, that had caused such an accumulation of business in his office. No two clerks under the Government were more industrious than the gentlemen employed in his office, one of whom he was obliged to maintain at his own expense ; yet, the business was now so ; greatly in arrears that, in order to bring it up, he would even be obliged to employ another. Mr. Kennedy believed that under the new arrangement, the Treasurer and one clerk would be amply sufficient to discharge the duties of the Treasnry office. The Colonial Secretary had observed the industry and uniform attention of the gentlemen in the Treasury to their duties, and yet they could not prevent the arrears of work from accumulating. In addition to their ordinary work, they were continually receiving "Queries" from home, and Colonial "Queries" that lequired answering; and from his knowledge of the business now at the Treasury, he thought it impossible for the Treasurer with one clerk to perform it, although they might be able to do so after the new arrangements had been brought into action. Mr. Domett remarked, that the sum cf five pounds only appeared for the Treasurer at Nelson. The Colonial Treasurer said that it ccst ten pounds to re-adjust the Nelson accounts. The Governor said, that the whole of the hon. Colonial Treasurer's remarks had amounted to this — that his accounts, which had taken four persons to prepare, had been returned to the Colony as inaccurate. The Colonial Treasurer observed, that his accounts had been revised by the Audit Board here before they were forwarded home. The Governor continued, — then it appeared that in addition to the four clerks at the Treasury, there had been the Board of Audit as well, making io all ten individuals concerned in preparing the accounts, — and yet they had been returned to the Colony on account of their inaccuracy. Mr. Domett, in reply to what had been said by the Colonial Treasurer on the Nelson accounts, said, that a more zealous officer than the Sub-Treasurer at Nelson was not in Government employ ; and if, as it appeared, the accounts of the Treasury were inaccurate, where they were prepared by men of long experience in the office, it was not to be wondered if a few blunders crept into the accounts of an individual who had spent a great part of his life at sea. The amount of £1,217 was then agreed to. i Audit. The amount of £465 was voted for the Audit department. The Committee then adjourned. The Weights and Measures bill, and the Desiitute Persons Relief bill, were read a third time and passed. The Council adjourned till Tuesday.