LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Monday, October 12, 1816.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume III, Issue 142, 9 December 1846, Page 3

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Monday, October 12, 1816.

Council met at 12 o'clock. Present : All the members. Mr. Kennedy moved for the following returns :—: — " 1. A Return of the total number of acres of land, from the commencement of the colony, sold by the Government in each year, vviih the gross proceeds of sales. '*2- A Return of the total number of acres of land granted by the Government in each year, distinguishing whether to purchasers, by way of exchange to Land Claimants, or to the New Zealand Company. '• 3. A Return of the total number of acres of Crown Land surveyed by the Government. " 4. A Return showing the number of acres of laud, within the Northern district, which, having been surveyed, and oi cc offered for sale at Public Auction, are now opeued to purchasers at a fixed puce. 4 *5. A Return of ttie estimated number of acres of land purchased by the Crown m the Northern district, direct from the Natives. "6 A Return of the total expenditure of the Survey depaitment for each year, since the establishment of the Colony. "7. A Return of the total expenditure for each year in making wharfs, roads, and bridges, in the Northern district of the Colony. "8. A Return of the total Government expenditure for each year hi immigration." After some observations from his Excellency, the returns were ordered to be laid on the table. The Council then went into Committee on the Prisons Bill. The 4th clause was read, and subjected to discussion ; it was as follows :—: — "It shall be lawful for the Sheriff of the District, or the Visiting Justice of any Public Gaol, to order any person who may have been sentenced to imprisonment without being sentenced to hard labour, and who shall not maintain himself, to be set to some work or labour, the same being* not severe ; and no such Prisoner who has the means of maintaining himself, shall have any c aim to be supported at the Public expense." Mr. Donnelly thought that the Sheriff should not be empowered to add to the sentence of the Judge ; and that no additional puuishment ihould be inflicted witbwft the

concurrence of two Visiting Justices. Tt,e ■ honorable member proposed an amendment to ; that effect. The Colonial Secretary thought that the Justices visiting once a mon'h would be cogni>ant of all that would transpire relative to the nature of the work which the prisoners would be required to do. He, the Colonial Secretary, had had some experience in the management of prisoners, and he could sifely say, that it would work badly for the Sheriff to be obliged to call in a third party to in.erfere in the discipline of the Gaol. The Attorney General would certainly hesitate to agree to ihe amendment. It was absolutely necessary that the Sheriff should act promptly on the spot, to enforce the strict discipline of the Gad, without reference to a third party. He should be placed in a similar position to the Captain of a ship, whose commands were imperative, and admitted of no interference. The utmost confusion and disorder would prevail if the Captain of a vessel was not invested with the entire command, or if his orders were liable to be questioned, and cavilled at by others. In like manner, the Sheriff should have the uncontrolled management of the inmates of the Gaol. The Governor said, that he thought the tendency of the proposed amendment would be to upset the Bill altogether. The principle of the Bill was as follows : — to place large powers in the hands of the Sheriff, that he might be enabled to exert a proper influence over the prisoners under his control, and the conduct of the Sheriff would be subject to the revision of the Visitiug Justices, who would report to the Governor on all abuses ; so that a proper check would be held over the several officers, from the Gaoler upwards. This system had been instituted in other Colonies, and had been approved of at home, not only by the Imperial Government, but also by persons who took an interest in the discipline of Gaols. In England, and in the Colonies it was customary to g've the control of Gaols into the hands of" Superintendents," or "Governors;" but from what he, the Governor, had observed in other places, he thought it more desirable to restrict the powers of such officers, and allow no punishment to be inflicted on the prisoner, except such as was ordered by the Sheriff, who would be held responsible to the Kxecutive for the equitable discharge of his duties. The amendment supposed that all Justices of the Peace were good tempered and humane men. Now, he did not wish to cast any imputation upon the Magistrates, but he corsidered that there were to be found among that body as great a proportion of illtempered individuals as there were araougthe same number of any other class of men. He agieed with the honorable Colonial Secretary that the greatest possible authority should be exercised over prisoners: and should the amendment be adopted, he knew not how the business of the Gaols could be safely conducted, for prisoners might refuse with impunity to obey the orders ot the Sheriff, without such ordeis had the concurrence of two Justices of the Peace. He therefore thought the clause had better stand as read. The Attorney Geueral understood the Bill to provide for Visiting Justices, who, among other things, would receive all complaints preferred by ihe prisoners in the Gaol. Mr. Donnelly did not wish to destroy the general efficiency of Gaols. The amendment proposed by him only applied to isolated cases, where he thought it desirable to^preclude the S) eriff from adding to the sentence of the Judge wbo had committed the prisoner ; he had no wish whatever to interfere in the general discipline of the Gaol. The Colonial Secretary had visited Gaols aud Hospitals in most parts of Europe, bat I ha had never known it to be the case that a third party was called in to interfere with the commands of the person having the management. After some few observations from the C,olonial Treasurer, Mr. Domett, aud Mr. Don- ' nelly, it was proposed that the further conci- } deration of the clause should be postponed. The Governor had no objection to the postponement, but, he might remind the Council that they were not called upon to consent to any new system, for the same law existed in other colonies, &nd had beeu agreed to at home; yet, he would not say, that because such was the case, no alteration should be made to answer this colony : other lules might be reI quired for New Zealand ; but he did not wish the members to imagine that he was introducing new or arbitrary measures which were unknown elsewhere. Further consideration of the clause was postponed. Upon the 11th clause being read, which provides that " Such Visiting Justices sb*U once at least in every quarter of a year, make a Report in writing to his Excellency the Go« vernor, or to the Superintendent of the Southern Division" &c, the Attorney •General suggested, that as there was a probability of I the Colony being divided, the wordf w Super1 imendent of the Southern Division," should

stand "or other officer, appointed by the Governor from time to time." ~Mr. Domett thought the word ** Governor" might as well now be substituted lor Superintendent. The Attorney -General's amendment was agreed to, and after some discussion, of no great irajo.lance, upon the other clauses, the Bill was postponed till another day. The Supreme Court Amendment Ordinance was read a third time and passed. On the third reading of the Sheriff's Bill, Mr. Donnelly said that any observation* he thought necessary to make on this Bill, during Us progress, were only of a general character, and did not apply to any individual personally. * Bill passed. The Governor laid on the table a Return of Fees received by the Sheriff and Sheriff's Bailiff. The Attorney- General gave notice of the first reading of a Bill to allow the importation of Wines duty free for the use of the Naval and Military Officers serving in the colony of New Zealand. Mr. Kennedy moved the second reading of the Destitute persons relief bill, and further consideration of Prisons Hill for Tuesday. Council adjourned till Tuesday, 12 o'clock.