PARLIAMENTARY INTELLIGENCE. House Of Commons, Wednesday, July 30.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume II, Issue 68, 24 January 1846, Page 3

P ARLIAMEN TARY INTELLIGENCE. House Of Commons, Wednesday, July 30.

On the vote for a snn> of £22,565 for the colony of New Zealand, -Mr. J. A. Smith was anxious to know how the House stood in regard to the question respecting that important colony. JJe under-

stood tie New^zWand" Comp»Dy relied UJXW ; the fiDceritjc^of the right honourable baronet I at the head of the Qoy.erijment. :, Siace' th» j last disciissipn- certain .proposal*, had' < beea .made on tfen'alf of the New Zealand "Gqmpany to her Majesty's Government for, a settlement of differences. Upon the receipt, of those proposals, the Under-Secretary for the Colonies expressed a wish to re-open negotiation*, 1 and a deputation from the Company waited [ upon him. A proposition, was then made, I which now stood over for the consideration and approval of Lord Stanley, who .was, unfortunately absent* He trusted that, for the good | of all, the proposals which had' been mad* i, would meet with the Acceptance of the 'noble I lord. But he wanted to know whether, in | the event of those hopes not being realized, ! the right honourable baronet would give another opportunity for discussing the state of the colony in the present session, if they omitted to make those remarks they might think it their duty to do upon that vote ? Sir R. Peel had a very strong wish to avoid [ a discussion under present circumstances, as he considered it of great importance to .. the well-being of the colony that it should be ! avoided if possible* No man regretted more i than he did the differences which had sprang ug, between the New Zealand Company and I her Majesty's Government. Communications were now passing between the Colonial Office I and the Company. The probability was* that ! there would be an amicable conclusion of those differences : but, if unfortunately it should happen that a different -result were arrived at, he had no hesitation in giving , an assurance that another opportunity for discussing the I whole question would be afforded during the present session. Mr. Hope begged to set the honourable gentleman opposite right on one point. It was not because of the absence of Lord Stanley that the proposal had not been decided upon. The reason was, that a gentleman had been called in, who was totally unconnected with the past history of the dispute, who .was now engaged in arranging the difference, and the proposal was before him. Mr. Roebuck had always been anxious th%t the question should not be discussed- as a' dispute between the New Zealand Company and the Government. He was convinced, that, with a little care, they might strike out a selfsustaining system of colonisation. Let there .be a Governor, and Executive Council appointed by the Crown, and a Legislative Assenjbly elected by the colonist?. Let tfiese;;be . the Legislature ; and the administration be in the Governor, with-the advice, not by the consent, of the Council. Let the colonists, in local matters, govern themselves. A general law should be prepared, so that each county, as it received its population, should receive the law from the law and from nothing else. He entrea-" ted the Government not to allow aa hour to pass before they formed a uniform system for the whole of the colony. . «► ' - .-< Mr. Hume concurred in the remarks of tke honourable and learned gentleman who had just addressed the house. After the manner in which the colonists in New Zealand had been treated, it was incumbent on Parliament to pass an act defining what rights they were to enjoy, and under what form of government' tbey were to be placed. He considered that the first care of Government should .have been to survey New Zealand, and to grant titles to land in the colony ; for unless such measures were adopted, colonization could not succeed in any part of the world. He was convipced that the honourable baronet (Sir Robert Peel)must regret and lament the disappointment and misery which had been inflicted upon the colonists in New Zealand. The whole country looked to the right honourable baronet to devise some remedy. for the existing evils, for nobody trusted the noble lord at the head of the Colonial Department [a laugh.] Mr. Sheil entered at considerable length into the past history and present state of New Zealand, and concluded to the following-effects — What was the object of these observations ? A greatqnistake had been committed. It ,wa» to show the Government that, if they would not go the entire length with the. committee, the right honourable gentleman perhaps might use his influence to induce" Lord Stanley to retrace his course [hear, hear]. He wti the last man in that House to say that Lord Stan*: ley should be treated with -disrespect. His talents were great, and, as a parliamentary dcr! bater, he waS far superior to almost anyone' he (Mr. Sheil) had ever heard; but if Lord Stanley were as calm and as unimpassioned as he was beyond doubt, prompt, .dexterous, and agile ; and if his talents were not as peculiarly remarkable in every department in which he had been engaged, still he (Mr.- Sheil) yen-; tured to say that New Zealand-ought .not to be sacrificed to him ; and that, in choosing bei tween the retention of the great .patrician in. the Cabinet and the maintenance andhappiness of a great-British possession of the Crown, the latter ought to be preferred [cheers]. - , Sir if. Peel apologised for Lord Stanley.

A« to the constitution of the supreme authority, it w*?"a difficult* questtbii; 'alid he Tjopfeo 1 'that! it w6»ld besettWd'aVtHe S&iie'st possible pe*r&dMo* • the Intofft^ofrhe'cdlbfyv fei?HJKt A^/tlie great« ( ai^'' paramount -q'iiestfoH 1 ;#h|i them«all. • -la^otae^y 6rdfhelc ! 'aes^e^Pf *ive~ Council ought^ to- represent 'the ;pufclfc opinion of thec6l<Sn'y. ( He must conclude by* saying that 'he' did TioTf think" k would be for ( the advantage of the colony that fKis discus-, sion should: be continued. . : Nr. Roebuck explained. ( : Mr. Hawes was glad to hear ffcfcTihere was i a prospect of a satisfactory, settlement' of the s •disputed between 'the f C6l6hial Office and the Company.' He was ■one 'who had never imputed paltry or petty motives to; the Colonial] Office"; and, now that the n'figociation ' Had | once commenced, he' :had every hope that it, would be brought to a satisfactory conclusion. Mr. C. Buller liked the tone in which this subject had been discussed. He was glad to hear from the right honourable baronet a reference made to the negociation between the New Zealand Company and the Colonials Office; and he must say that he was glad to hear that the matter had taken that turn ; and he should be extremely disappointed if these dis.putes, which they all regretted, had not at last that happy result which he ventured to anticipate. As to the estimates immediately before the committee, he concurred with what his right honourable friend had said respecting •them. There were some charges to be regarded rather as imperial than colonial. They ought to' recollect that for a new settlement they required as a Governor a man of great ability, and £1,200 a year was not sufficient for 1 a gentleman going out as Governor of New Zealand — a taxing officer in one of the law -courts in Dublin, his right honourable friend informed them, got as high a salary [hear]. While they were voting the estimates for New Zealand, they ought to take as much as would jpay the debt at once. Now, the present estimates did not give a fair notion of 'what the colony required. In some papers from Capt. Fitzßoy the expenditure of this year was estimated at from £36,000 to £40*0,00, and the only revenue to meet that. was £14,000, leaving a deficit of £22,000. But of the £14,000, Captain Fitzßoy calculated on receiving £8,000 from property-tax, and £2,000 from land titles. The first return showed that the property-tax would hot produce £4,000 instead of £8,000 ; and as to the revenue from >land title*, by allowing parties to purchase from the natives it was swept away altogether. Thus, then, all they had was £8,000 as a revenue, with an expenditure of £36,000 or £40,000, leaving a deficit of £32,000. The •present estimate was only for £22,000 and -odd, and they had a debt of £15,000, for which they had issued their debentures. He did not think that there could be a less deficiency •than £40jO00in amount. He wished to call the attention of the committee to another point. Captain ' Fitzßoy had .made a reduction in every one's salary in the colony. He had stakenofi^-foarth'of eachperson's salary. They had, for instance, sent out Mr. *Chapman &a a judge, with a salary of £800 a year ,• by Captain Fitzßoy '« regulationsthathad beenreduced below £600 a year. This he consider ed a very hard case [hear, hear]. "Why was a difference to be made between judges.!? What right had this gentleman to expect that ~the Crovernor would have swept the customs from £22,000 down to £8,000, and that he should be made to suffer for it ? They ought to keep faith with the public servants ; and in this instance they ought to take such an estimate as would enable them, amongst other things, to pay this gentleman the salary they had contracted to give him. •Mr. Aglionby,- in defending the character and proceedings of the New Zealand Company, observed that there appeared to him to be very little difference between the opinions of the -honourable and learned member for Bath and -the right honourable baronet, to that species of representative government which should be* giVen to New Zealand. He hoped that the result of the proceedings that had been alluded; to would be good 'government, under which the colony would prosper. . Xord Ebrington rejoiced heartily that there was a prospect of a settlement between the Company, and the Colonial Office ; but he did not expect that anything he done' with a -good effect until some plain principle was laid 'down. as to the waste lands [hear, hear, hearQ; . i ■ - Mr;G~ W. Hope, leavingthegeneralquestion as having been already sufficiently discussed, would confine himself to the amount- of the present estimate.- He agreed whh the -honourable and learned member for Liskeard, that the smallness of the vote required justification. The. fact was, that among the many other difficulties' in which the -late Governor had left the Government (and he wished not tcpress unduly jjpon-Gaptain Fitzßoy) [hear], was that' of- great uncertainty as to the state of the finances 'of !the«oloiiy[hear;' hear]. He was not prepared to say that the calculations \

upon which this vote was founded would, prove to be *drr<ftt, Bfrt in preparing the estimates fot^arlwiben't 1 the l Cplohiar Office' could otalyl ■proceed TipbtT sucn°docum'ents as Had been fotaishe^io'tlefe? : And the only stst&nttiti f in reference "to -this, the financial question,! which had been supplied to 1 the Gbveriinieriti by Captain Fitzroy,- was that which, tljajd been referred to by the honourable and learned ! member for Liskeard himself. ' - ' Mr. J. A. Smith said a few wor&r/wlf&h ,were inaudible in the gallery. Mr. W. Williams ha - come down to the .house' expecting that this vote was to be opposed [no, no]j.> Butit appestoedtxdw that wte Company having got • their million of acres of land secured to them, as ' he supposed they had or would have under the renewed negotiation with the Colonial Office, they were for increasing instead of opposing the estimates, knowing very well that the more money was expended in the colony the better it would be for themselves. He had no doubt, if the session lasted much longer, they would have a -supplemental estimate brought in for $few Zealand. For his part he thought we were already' taxed enough for this mismanaged colony. Would the honourable gentleman say whether this vote included all that this country would be called upon to pay on accountof the present year, or whether he intended io propose a supplemental estimate ? Mr. Hope had already stated that the calculations upon which the present estimate was framed were made upon very imperfect information. Mr. Mangles believed, if the colonies of New Zealand were allowed to govern themselves, ther would be a revenue more than sufficient to meet all the expenses of the colony, without calling for any aid from this country. Mr. JB. Osborne was somewhat surprised at the turn the discussion had taken. 'It appeared now that the attention of the house had been taken up in a mere squabble he- | tween the .New Zealand Company and the | Government, and, now that that dispute was in a fair way for settlement, the more important question of whether the Colonial Department as now -constituted was fit to be entrusted with the destinies of our vast colenial empire, was altogether lost sight of£hear, bear!]. Mr. Hindley complained that the present Bishop of New Zealand had consecrated, for the exclusive burial of Protestants, a portion of the cemetery which had hitherto been used for the interment of the inhabitants of the colony generally, without regard to religious distinctions. He (Mr. Hindley) had received communications stating that this act of the bishop had I given great dissatisfaction, and that a petition | would be forwarded to him for presentation to the House of Commons on the subject. The Chancellor of the Exchequer thought the petitioners, in witholding their petition, had exhibited more discretion than the honourable member. Admiral Dundas could not allow any aspersions to -be 'Cast on the character of the present Bkhop of New Zealand without standing up in his defence. He believed =no .man had ever excercised the functions of his office with greater .zeal and devotion — no man bad been more successful in the performance -of his sacred duties — and there was no man T/hose character was in every respect more exemplary than that of the right reverend prelate [hear, hear]. Mr. Brotheroe asked, was it intended that this country should be saddled with the ecclesiastical -establishments of New Zealand i Mr. Hope was understood to say, that, m the present state of the colony, it was necessary that the means of .religious instruction for the inhabitants should be provided by this-country. Mt. B. Osborne wished to know whether the present Governor was to have any increase of salary, as compared with the former Governors. ; - Mr. Hope said the present Governor went -out on a special mission, and he would therefore receive a special allowance. That special allowance -would be £2,500 a year, instead of £1,200 a year, which was the salary of the late Governor. Mr. W. Williams observed that, from all he had heard, he believed the present Bishop of New Zealand to be a most estimable person, And in. every way fitted for the duties of liis stcred ; bat he thought the charge for the ecclesiastical establishment of the colony ought not to be placed upon this country. He hoped that means would be taken to provide for the payment of the clergy out of the revenue arising from the waste lands of thecolony. Tiicount Sandon agreed that it would be impossible for this country to maintain the ecclesiastical establishments of all the colonies. He believed that, by an appropriation of the waste-latads, means might be provided for the religious training and education- of the people, and for all clerical purposes ; and he considered that the colonists ought to' be put in a

position, as soon as possible, taj>royide a, re-, 'ligidu^Wabli&meift^for tnfe'mseWs'ttfy those, means [hear; Ittaifj. 1 , ,'" Mr. Hindiey 'was tin advocate' for Ithe volutf r , tary principle, in^all cases. ( JSfit'he believed' the New Zealand 1 Com^anyjbad\aiyead^turned their attention to the subject, arid had/ invented • J^7,000 in thehands'Sf trustees %f church in New Zealand. , Under these circuitts'tances he thought it was hard "that the charge should be thrown on this country. Mr. Aglionby said, his honourable friend was quite' correct in supposing that the New Zealand Company' nad set apart a "large sum, for the purposes dfr-eligious instruction, and they Bad granted assistance in this respect without regard to any feelings of partiality for one religion more than another. ;They had been guided only -by the proportionate numbers of each sect in the particular locality io which the grant- was made, and they' had given the largest- division of the funds to the members of the Established Church, as being the largest body. The Vote was then agreed to.