SUMMARY OF MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE ON NEW ZEALAND. (Continued from No. 35.)

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume I, Issue 43, 2 August 1845, Page 4

SUMMARY OF MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE ON NEW ZEALAND. (Continued from No. 35.)

This week we publish, in continuation of our summary, the evidence of Mr. Heale. We have thought proper to deviate from tli'e order in which the witnesses were examined, and propose to publish first the evidence of -the witnesses examined on the part of the Government, to establish their case, and afterwards that of the witnesses examined on the part of the New Zealand Company. T. Heale, Esq., is examined,as to native customs with reference to titles in land. States that alienation of property from one individual native to another is entirely unknown, and that alienation by tribes in the way of purchase, where a consideration passes is also unknown : That in making- over laud from one tribe to another, it is a .mere -voluntary concession, if it <takes place at all ; and that when it lias taken place, it is not completed, hut leaves it open to the paity making the concession to revive their claim at a future period — that the tenure of land is by their traditions ; tradition >takes the place of title : thus if at a korero it be admitted by one tribe that the other did conquer them, ,and drive them out of possession of a piece of land, it would be inferred that that piece o£

land belonged to the conquerors ; and that fac would be as perfect a title to possession by.tlu conquerors, as' an/deeds could give. Obtainec his knowledge from his late partner Captaii Symonds, who was acquainted with those mat ters, and also from Mr. White and many others Mr. White was formerly a Wesleyan missionary and was discharged from the mission in consequence of his dealing in land contrary to theii orders. Is not a land-claimant. Has a gmal town allotment in the town of Auckland, and claims a small piece of land of thirteen acres, or which his sawmill stands at Manakau. Was promised a ten years' lease of that land. Captain Hobson volunteered it. "He said he understood I was going to take the mill away ; I said probably I should ; and I told him that one reason for that was, that I had some difficulty in getting a site; he said, "Do not let that disturb you, for I will give you a piece of land." First he said he would give me a renewable lease, but he subsequently reduced that in his letter to a ten years' lease." Has written a book in which he had stated that nearly 900,000 broad acres were granted to the Company without payment. That statement is substantially cor- ' reel ; they got it for nothing at all, or next to nothing. Had also stated, "In short, this prince of charters made them the absolute proprietors of this vast estate, to be selected by themselves in whatever part of the islands they might think proper, without check or control." Is perfectly aware that statement is now incorrect. He relies very much upon Mr. White's information ; believes he made a considerable trade in buying land. He was considered to understand the native language better than any individual in New Zealand, and would know their customs and prejudices. Mr. White gave him these statements as Ihe result of his experience in. his vocation of a land-shark. Was not on. the spot at the time of the Treaty of Waitangi. The idea of the natives is, that Government has pledged itself not to take their lands without their consent. His experience, as regards all points, is almost exclusively confined to the northern part of the island. Is opposed to the policy of the Waitangi Treaty. Conceives the effect of it is to give to the natives a sort of tenure of the land not beneficial to themselves, but merely giving them the power of preventing the Government from getting a beneficial title ; it is not beneficial to themselves, inasmuch as the only benefit they can derive from the vast majority of the lands is by sale to individuals, and that they are not permitted to do ; but, at the same time, they have a troublesome power of stopping colonization entirely, by refusing to sell to Government. Thinks it would be very difficult to set aside the Treaty of Waitangi, but that the natives might easily be convinced of the disadvantages under which both parties labour, if you could fairly get at them without left-handed influence. His knowledge of the feelings of the natives respecting the Treaty of Waitangi does not extend to the southern part of the island. Some of the natives at the great meeting at Waitangi were persons of the highest authority ; the tribes of that neighbourhood are by far the principal in the whole island ; it was they that originated all the great warlike movements ; they attacked some of the tribes, and threw them upon the south, and then those of the south went further down, and in their turn did the same thing to others. Is examined as to his previous statements about tradition. States that one gentleman in particular assured him he has repeatedly, all over the island, traced their genealogy back for fifteen generations. Believes it is perfectly well known that savages are greater genealogists than we are with all the facilities we have of writing. It is notorious, that among many ancient nations, traditions have been maintained for many generations in a very uninterrupted state. Has not the slightest notion ' of the nnmber of inhabitants in the northern island ; the opinions of parties in the island vary so exceedingly. The island at large .cannot he considered inhabited, except in portions here and there. The quantity under cultivation by the natives is so small, that not one acre in a thousand of available land is cultivated by natives, and "the remaining land is not turned" to any earthly use whatever. The witness corroborates Mr. Brodie's statement about the affair at Manganui, and also the case of Mr. Fairburn the missionary, who obtained the grant of a district of about 90,000 acres from three contending tribes, as the only way of establishing peace among them. Mr. Fairburn attempted to prove his claim before the Commissioners, and had an award made of 3,000 acres, the rest by the rules adopted in the colony falling to the «Cjown. On a portion of this land Mr. Terry attempted to set up a flax-mill by the permission x>f the Government, who were led to believe, that in case of his flax machine answering, his company were prepared to take a special grant, but the natives and Mr. Fairburn himself attempted to molest him, until it was intimated to Mr. Fairburn that by persisting in such a course his own grant of a portion of the land, might be delayed. The mill was afterwards .given up ; it proved a failure. (To be continued.)