LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume I, Issue 34, 31 May 1845, Page 3

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Tuesday, April 8. Minutes of last Council read and confirmed. The Govefnor observed, that before proceeding to the regular business of the day, he wished to make a few observations in reference tfo the various reports spread during the morning, and to state, as far as information went, the real state of the case, which he thought was not for the worse, but for the better. There Were two large parties contending at the Bay of Islands, and there had been some skirmishing, in which a few lives had been lost on both sides, on the day the North Star left. There was to be another battle yesterday. The chiefs who have taken up arms, are those who have been in regular communication with the Government, and' indeed, all the chiefs in that district, excepting' Heki and Kowaiti, are well disposed. There was a strong feeling among those who are well disposed, to uphold the Government; for they avowed, that rather than be governed by a native <* chief, who should, like Heki, attain an ascendancy for a time, they would much prefer that the British Government should govern allthe chiefs. He then stated, that he had received from the honorable member, Mr. Heale, a letter 1 according to the Bth clause of the Royal instructions, which states, that no subject shall tt& brought before the Legislative Council 1 for discussion' but through the Governor, and that any member may propose in writing to the Governor any matter which he wishes the Council to discuss. The clerk then read the letter, which requested that the issue of the large debentures, as applied to the payment of arrears of salaries, instead of the purpose directed by Lord Stanley — namely, the redemption of small debentures — should be brought under consideration of the , Legislative Council.

The Governor then moved, that the subject to the letter referred, should be taken into on Thursday next. The Governor then laid on the table a Bill for 'the repeal of the Property Rate Ordinance. He then moved, that the protests of Dr. Martin, JVIr. Brown, and Mr. Clifford, on the Customs' -Amendment Bill be read. The Clerk read the protests. The Governor observed, that the reasons expressed in those protests, were some that weighed on his own mind when the first insurrection took place at the Bay, and he had hoped by removing the cause to have checked the discontent. But it was very clear that the reasons then given, as the cause of discord, were not correct, and it was merely a fulcrum of agitation, and the real object was originally the removal of British authority from the Bay of Islands. It had been observed, why make so much stir about the flag-staff? but it was only part and parcel of Heki's plan, for if he had not had the n*2g-staff, he would have proceeded to other aneasures. He {Heki) had given notice that he would burn the jail, and send away all the Government officers. He (the Governor) hadtaken himself, it the time, the responsibility of a step unprecedented, perhaps, in the history of colonization,— the abolition of the Customs; and the Legislative Council unanimously concurred in it. The result has proved that he was 'wrong, for there were other causes, deeply-rooted and widely-spread, than that which he had conceived to be the origin. There were other circumstances which would operate in favour of return to Customs ; he alludedto the great reduction in the Government expenditure — to the concentration of the settlers that would now take place, and to the great increase of the military force. Six months ago there was great tendency to dispersion among the settlers ; now •the case was widely different, and therefore smuggling would be more difficult, as supplies could be brought but to few ports. The Government had reduced the expenditure as low as possible, and in addition to that reduction, there would be a very much reduced scale of expenditnre in the Customs. The expense had formerly been £4,200 per annum -: now it would be only £1,800, which would be provided for by the supplimentary estimate. Without entering into discussion whether Free Trade or Customs should be adopted, he should merely observe, that Customs was the less of two evils. He was still an advocate for free trade : but he could not carry out the plan of direct taxation. It was an old saying in England, that it is folly to go to law with a township ; so it would be here, for the Government would have had to go to law with two-thirds of the population to enforce direct taxes. In a few years hence the principles of free trade might be carried out in this colony, hut at present no revenue could be raised but by •Customs. The Licensing Dealers' Bill would have realized very little, and the parties would prefer Customs. It was similar to a Bill in Norway, and he thought it might be carried into effect, but the opinions of others was different. With that Bill, and with &n amended Property Hate Ordinance, and other sources of revenue, he did not think that more than five or six thousand pounds would be raised. Reverting to the system of Customs, perhaps eight or ten thousand pounds^ would be received. The Executive Council had struggled very hard to do their duty, and if the Local Government had not varied their measures according to circumstances, they would have been very much to blame. As circumstances changed, so should measures be changed; and, although it was impossible to prevent disastrous events, they should endeavour to repair them. He was quite willing to bear the blame of inconsistency and of wavering, and vacillating; but he will always look to what will or may be for the benefit of the colony at large. If any honorable member ■would move the suspending of the standing orders, the Bill he had to lay on the table might be read a first time, but he would not himself •move it. Mr. Donnelly observed, that the Property Kate Ordinance had been passed six months, and was >then received with approbation, and now it vpas unpopular. He had strong objections to the Customs' Amendment Bill as expressed in the protests which had beefi^read.; There were two circumstances which operated in ids mind against the Customs ; one was the supposed feeling of the native population against it, and the effect it 3 re-enactment might have on them at this time : and the other reason was, the h vish expenditure of the public money, when the Customs formerly existed. The expenditure never could have been reduced while the Customs existed. The Property Rate Ordinance, by its non-productiveness, has tended to accomplish the great reduction. Ac a permanent measure, the Property Rate Ordinance was quite impracticable as it was unjcsl, for property and income were equally taxed, while income arising from various sources was similarly taxed. r iiether a person was receiving £300 per annu a, or worth only £300, yet he paid the same amount. The details were well known to be perfectly inoperative ; hut it had enabled his Excellency to snake great reductions in the Estimates. Mr. Heale moved, that the standing orders be suspended, and the Bill read a first time. The Governor said, that the Bill was merely a repeal of one act, and a substitution of a pre-

vious act. It should take place at once, and the best plan was to take every body by surprise, and to bring the Customs into operation at once, by passing the Bill through all its stages this day. Mr. Heale observed, that he should oppose the Bill being read a second time ; he thought further time should be given for consideration. He had no wish to follow the example of some of the honorable members, and to be dragged through the mire of double recantation within four months. The Colonial Treasurer moved the second reading of the Bill. The Attorney General observed, that it was very desirable that the Bill should pass without delay, as the first vessel might go to Wellington direct, and any person might buy up all the goods. He thought by passing the Bill much mischief would be prevented. Mr. Donnelly observed, that some time should be given for consideration, and likewise to amend the Customs' Bill. The Governor stated, it was merely a question of repeal — not to amend — it -was not his intention to lay a Bill before the Council to amend a Bill of the Customs. Mr. WJjitaker remarked, that when the resolution was proposed on Saturday, he was quite aware that 'it was incorrect then to discuss any question at all. By the resolution, he pledged himself to the system of indirect taxation, and not to any specific duties already fixed. It was only when he came into the Council this day, that he found that the resolution went only to a repeal of the Property Rate Ordinaace, and the substitution of the two acts of Customs previously in operation. The point on -Saturday, in his mind, was whether he should support the Property Rate Amendment Bill, and the Licensing Dealers' Bill, or re-establish a system of Customs ; and he had such decided objection to ! the two former, that he conceived any system of taxation but those would be preferable. He found to-day that the question was quite different. It was not whether he should consider • anew a, system of Customs in preference to the two other proposed Ordinances, but to decide, either to re-establish the old acts of Customs, or to support the Property Rate Ordinance and Licensing Dealers' Bill. He thought some little time ought to be given for him to consider on the subject, and to postpone the discussion until Thursday, would not be much delay. If the vessel was going to Port Nicholson, it would not do much mischief, for it was not likely that persons would dispose hastily of their property when it was anticipated that Customs were about being re-established. On Thursday he should be quite prepared to state his decision ; but he was quite aware that his Excellency could say, you must have this system of indirect taxation, and no other. The Governor observed, that he mast protect the personal interests of aIL The resolution pledged honorable members to support indirect taxation. To meet the views of honorable members, he was not unwilling hereafter to discuss the Customs by an amended act, but it was expedient to bring the new system into immediate operation, to prevent private speculation. Mr. Heale observed, that what had fallen from his Excellency proved that the Customs required amendment. The Governor remarked that such was not his assertion ; he had only said that he would have no objection subsequently, if any lion, member thought that the Customs' Ordinance might be amended beneficially for the public, to entertain such discussion. These were not times for lion, members to refrain from assisting the Government — they were critical times, and he saw no reason on the present occasion to give way to the non-official members : he should call upon the official members to support the Government, if pressed to a division, and notified that he shouliicarry the measure through to-day. Mr. Whitaker wished to repel the charge of inconsistency — a Bill had for the first time been put into his hands, and he was then asked to carry it quite through' all the stages. One very serious consideration with him was, how the Customs' Ordinance may affect the Natives at this juncture and whether the duties on tobacco and blankets might not be subject worthy of reconsideration. The Attorney General thought that the objections of the non-official members were more specious than real. The system proposed was not new — one Bill had been three years in existence, and the other nine months, therefore they could not be unacquainted with them. The Governor said, that from all the informa* ; tion he could collect, there was no reason to apprehend any material difference on articles to the natives by the re-enactment of Customs, except tobacco. Whether that might be reduced at some future time, would be matter for consideration hereafter. Jf the joative paid the same as the European, he did not think there would be complaints. Blankets had not become cheaper by the abolition of customs — their price was always regulated by the stocks of the merchants. The trade of the nativ.es here and at .the Bay of Islands was widely different. Formerly at the Bay, before customs were established, the natives went with their produce on board the whalers, and were paid for every thing

in tobacco — therefore when customs prevented such course, they complained. Here the natives do not go on board ships, but sell their produce, in the town, and then buy their tobacco. The Colonial Treasurer then moved, that the standing orders be suspended for the Bill to go through the subsequent stages. The Bill was then read second and third time, and passed. The Governor then moved, that the Property Rate Amendment Ordinance and Licensing Dealers' Bill be read a second time this day six months. Council adjourned to Thursday.

Thursday, April 10, 1845. His Excellency opened the business by giving the most positive assurance, brought by Mr. Meurant, from the chiefs of the Waikato tribe, of their firm friendship and alliance in case of an affray. Jabez Bunting, Whero-whero, Abrahams, and all the chiefs were unanimous in this determination. Their sensitive minds had been much grieved at our supposing the possibility of their infidelity to our bonds of friendship ! Several of them were coming to Auckland, but without force or numbers, for fear of giving alarm, in order to consult with the Governor, and make arrangements for the preservation of peace. His Excellency said all his information and correspondence was highly satisfactory ; there were reports and rumours going about which it was degradatory to contradict — they were in themselves so absurd ; for instance, the report that an attack would be made on the 21st instant by Heki and his people. This was physically impossible, considering time and distance, and the necessity of preparation. Mr. Whitaker had much confidence in Mr. Meurant's opinion, but, by the Russell this morning, it was reported that the recent collision among the opponent natives had ceased — a reconciliation had taken place — and a coalition against Auckland would probably be the result. The Governor attached no importance to one in ten of the rumours he received ; they were generally undeserving of credit; for instance, Mr. Merritt had excited considerable alarm by spreading certain reports of an interview with the Maories, at which a missionary was present whose name he did not know. This gentleman afterwards proved to be Mr. Kemp, but, on being questioned, Mr. K. declared that there was not the least foundation for M. Merritt's statement. In like manner, one Hawkins went out expressly to see what he could contrive to put together, and after setting the whole place in alarm, it was found that his story had not the shadow of truth in it. In fact, all the natives in our neighbourhood were not only exceedingly quiet, but zealous in their friendship, the land arrangements had satisfied every murmur amongst them. Mr. Heale was desirous to put a question to his Excellency, upon the question of the recently constructed fortifications, — they would be perfectly useless and untenable if they were not provisioned — much public anxiety prevailed upon this subject. The Governor said — " there is three montlis' provisions for two hundred and fifty men" and therefore quite sufficient supply for any temporary emergency, there was abundance of water, or if not, it was only necessary to dig for it. His Excellency compared himself to a spider in his web, where he sat perpetually on the watch, with his susceptible*lines of information on every side, in such a manner that it was impossible for any movement to escape his notice. Martial law, he continued, can be called into operation in five minutes upon the Governor's command, at any time, and the resources of town and country pressed into the public service, but he was sure that ample notice would arrive before any serious movement could take place. Mr. Heale thanked his Excellency for his explanation — the the assurance .that there was three months' provisions in the barracks, would tend greatly to allay those apprehensions, which had prompted his enquiry. The Governor could not see any present danger, and any extraordinary bustle of preparation was only calculated to excite alarm. Besides, ajstore of provisions was not to be bought without^ mdffey, and" he saw no present necessity for piitting the Government to expense, in other words, for wasting the property of the public. 1 Mr. Whitaker could not agree with his Ex1 cellency, that instant preparation was calculated I to excite alarm, on the contrary, he thought it the best means of allaying it. The Attorney General said that the outlay of money might be averted by building a store in the barracks, and inviting the merchants who | were holders of provisions to place them there, for safe keeping, in case of emergency. The Governor saw no necessity for such a course, it would take fourteen days at least to build such a place, besides the expense. Mr. Heale said that the time required for such a purpose, was just the reason why it should not be delayed, it would always be useful hereafter, except indeed that the barracks had been built where they were quite out of place, they ought to cover the town, and cut k off from the country. In their present position they were quite as likely to injure the town as to protect it. The Governor agreed with the latter remark, and said that ground in a proper position had

been reserved for future fortifications, but this was not a time to discuss that matter. The Colonial Treasurer thought the Attorney General's suggestion worthy of consideration 4 in case of insidious attempt to fire the town, the provisions would be thus secure. The Governor said that salt pork 'and flour were not very combustible, and he did riot attach much value to the argument, to which Mr. Heale rejoined it was not the combusts bility of the pork, but the wooden buildings that contained it, that were to be thought of < if the houses were burnt down, even though the goods be metal instead of pork, it would destroy them. Mr. Whitaker had yet another question to ask, if his Excellency would give him leave. It was generally understood that fhe North Stat 1 was ordered for China, if our security was so complete as his Excellency represented it to be, why did ShvEverard Home linger here ? is he detained by his Excellency's desire ? would our security be complete in his absence ? The Governor said the North Star is in these seas for the general protection of British life and interest. Sir E. Home would stay or de-part-as the Governor of this or any other colony might represent the necessity. " I am sure (added he) he would not leave here till I cordially consent." We have a strong force here now, and a reinforcement is expected, but if the ships of war are sent away now, I shall not have that confidence in our safety which I have so boldly expressed. The subject was dropped here, and the Council proceeded to a discussion upon the new debentures as suggested by Lord Stanley.

Saturday, April 12, 1845. His Excellency explained a mistake he had made, about the provisions in the barracks, on Thursday last. There were no provisions/ When he wrote for the troops, he desired they might bring down three months' supplies with them, and he thought of course they had done so ; but it appeared, for some reason which he could not explain, they had not come. His Excellency continued — he would set about erecting a store-house, and creating a supply in the barracks forthwith — thus reversing every word he said two days before. o