PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 43, 18 November 1871, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, November 9. The Speaker took the chair at half-past one o’clock. COLONIAL CONFERENCE. Mr MURRAY asked the Government,' if they would, during the recess, correspond •with the Governments of Australia and Tasmania, with a view to arranging questions of colonial importance and advancing colonial interests upon the basis of a federal conference ? ~ Mr FOX said the only answer he could give was that the Government had no intention of entering into any abstract questions of the kind. He was afraid if they have to rush to the other colonies with unnecessary propositions of the kind, they would be looked upon as schoolboys or enthusiastic members of a debating society. If by the action of any of the other colonies the question assumed a form which would justify the Government in entering into the matter, they would have no objection whatever to do so. COAL FIELDS. Mr HARRISON asked the Minister of Public Works, if the General Government had had their attention drawn to the advisability of assuming authority in the disposal of the principal coal fields of the colony, and whether the Government intend taking any steps in that direction ?' It had occurred to him that in the working of their coal mines large sums of money had been spent and were about to be spent, and no provision had been made for the control of the moneys to be spent. He felt there would be great necessity for some such control as he had suggested in the case of the Bruuner coal mine, where, as soon as the expenditure under the act was commenced, they would have part conducted under the direction of the County Chairman of the County Council of Westland, and part under the Superintendent of the province of Nelson. Under such circumstances he wished to point out that there was a great necessity for uniform action.

Mr GISBORNE said the Government quite recognised the importance of the matter to which tlip hon member had drawn attention. It was a subject to which they bad not directed their attention, but it was one, in connection with the railways to be considered, to which they would have to ctevote a considerable amount of care, and with that view would communicate with the Superintendent of Nelson on the subject. Not having had their attentiou previously drawn to the particular point, he could not at present give a more definite reply. AMENDMENTS BY LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The amendments made by the Legislative Counci l in the Municipal Corporations Bill, the Wellington City Reserves Bill, the Civil Service Act Amendment Bill, and the Native District Road Boards Bill. MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS REGISTRATION BILL. This bill, introduced to meet complaints similar to those contained in petitions presented to the House early in the session, was read a second time, committed, read a third time, and passed. LUNDON AND WHITAKER CLAIMS BILL. The House went into committee on this bill. The claims of Messrs Whitaker and Lundon were keenly debated from one side. Mr G. M‘Lean, Mr Gillies, Mr J. E. Brown, Mr Calder, Mr Reynolds and Mr T. Kelly stated that it was their intention not to have taken any part in the discussion of the bill, but the special advocacy of MiBell in behalf of the claimants compelled them to watch the passage of the bill in the interests of the colony. Mr Bell openly confessed that he did not pretend to be impartial this case, and quite admitted that he was arguing for one side, because he supposed there were members on the other side doing the same. A proposal by Mr Brandon that the judge to whom the matter was to be submitted for settlement should have power to call evidence to enable him to arrive at a just decision, was negatived, the numbers on division being 27 to 24. Mr Reynolds complained of the unsatisfactory way in which the votes had been obtained on the question just decided. The bill was then reported to the House, and the motion for the third reading having been put,

Mi’ SHEPHERD hoped the Government would take such steps as would secure that when the case Mas tried before the Judge at Auckland, tlie necessary witnesses should be called, and that the case should be.conducted in such a manner as would satisfy the public as well as those who were doubtful as to the nature of the claims of Messrs Lundon and Whitaker. Everything that took place in connection with the case would be very carefully scrutinised, and he hoped for that reason that the proceedings would be of an impartial nature. He hoped the Government would give him an assurance that such a course would be observed. Mr U-ISBORNE said the Government would do everything they could to have a thorough, searching, and impartial investigation into the whole case, and that they would take care to do full justice to the interests of the colony. PAYMENTS TO PEOVINCES BILE. Mr EOX brought up the reason for disagreeing with the amendment of the Legislative Council in this bill. The reason assigned was that the Legislative Council has not power to expunge the clauses. NEW BAILWAYS. The House went into committee to consider proposals for new railways. Mr GISBORNE announced that whatever lines might be agreed to in this committee would only be taken as suggestions, and that when the Railwi ys Bill was further considered in committee the Government would definitely announce its opinions on the lines proposed.

He then proposed the following new clause, which was agreed to :—The. Government may construct and maintain,. or cause to be constructed or maintained under the provisions of the said act and this act, the several lines of railway in the province of Canterbury, specified in the third schedule, hereto, and to meet the cost of such construction, there shall, and may from time to time be issued in the construction of such railways mentioned in the said schedule, any sum or sums of money, not exceeding in the whole the sum of ninety thousand pounds,' and such sum or sums, shall be issued and applied out of any moneys for the time being available from the Middle Island railway fund for the construction of railways in the Province of Canterbury, and out of the sum of forty-two thousand pounds, appropriated by the Superintendent and Provincial Council of Canterbury towards the cost of the construction of the said railways, which sums so appropriated, the Superintendent of the said province is hereby authorised to pay into the Public Works aocounfc, and so far as the moneys for the time being available from the said several funds are insufficient to meet any of such costs as shall for the time being come in course of payment, then such deficiency, shall and may be issued and applied out of any moneys for the time being standing to the credit of the Public Works account. The cost of the construction of such railways and of the maintenance and working thereof, so lar as the same, shall be defrayed out of other moneys than the Middle Island Railway Fund, and the said moneys appropriated by the Provincial Legislature of Canterbury shall be charged against the Province of Canterbury in the same manner as provided by the said amending Act with regard to main railways. Mr J. C. BROWN proposed the insertion in the first schedule of a line from Tokomariro to Lawrence, in the province of Otago. Mr SHEPHERD seconded the motion. He considered the proposed line would be one of the most important that could be constructed, not only to the interests of the province, but to the interests of the whole colony. He considered it a great mistake to have left the recommendations of the lines to be constructed to the Provincial Councils of the colony. _ It was now obvious that those recommendations had for their object the benefiting of private property. . Mr GISBORNE said that looking at the nature of the country through which the line would pass, they had come to the conclusion that it could not be considered as a branch line, but was essentially and substanially a main line, and should not be treated as a branch line. Therefore the Government w-ere prepared to ask the Assembly to put the line in the schedule of main lines. The motion was agreed to. Mr T. KELLY proposed £the ■ addition to the schedule of the line between Taranaki and Wanganui. He would therefore move the addition of the words “ Waitara, in the province of Taranaki, to Wanganui. j Mr GISBORNE would at once state that the Government were willing to agree to the proposal and would recommend the Assembly to sanction the construction of the line. Of course the parts to be constructed and the time of their construction, must be left to the Government, Mr CARRINGTON hoped the railway would be commenced at botli ends simultaneously. The motion was agreed to. Mr BELL proposed the following motion : —“ That this committee recommmends that provision should be made for the construction of a line between the Ashburton and Temuka, so as to continue the line of communication between Rangiora and Timaru. Mr STAFFORD announced at this point of the discussion that it was by sheer accident that he happened to be in the House. He would now repeat that it was his intention not to take any part in the scramble into which the great scheme of the Government had degenerated. He might prefix many adjectives to the word “ scramble,” but he would leave that scrambling to members to whom such an occupation was congenial. [Mr Stafford walked out of the House.] The motion of Mr Bell was agreed to. Mr G. M‘LEAN proposed that the line between Moeraki and Waikouait should be surveyed so as to continue the communication with Port Chalmers or Dunedin.

Mr GILLIES said that as recommendations seemed to be given from all quarters he would make a recommendation “ That in the opinion of the Council the country generally ought to be surveyed in order to ascertain where lines of railway would be useful and profitable, and that a report should be made in a future session.” Mr YOGEL said the best plan now would be to move that the Chairman do report progress. Then every member could make his suggestions, and the Government would come down to the House to-morrow and say which they would be prepared to accept. Those proposals which were not handed in to-night would not be entertained. Mr GISBORNE said the principle the Government had acted upon was that only (hose lines which had been surveyed should be gone on with. Some of those railways even might not be gone on with for six or seven years, and it would be useless to receive suggestions for an indefinite number of railways, Mr REYNOLDS hoped the Wellington and Masterton line would be one of those not to be undertaken for six or seven years. Mr REID said, as the Government did not seem to confine themselves to the schedule, he had a railway to propose. As the question of railways had 'now resolved itself into a scramble, he had a duty to perform to his constituents, and he would propose the addition to the schedule of a line from Mosgiel to Outram. This would be a very important

line, and as every line already proposed was going to create a great amount of traffic., he could assure the House that this line would create an enormous amount of traffic. Mr REYNOLDS thought the Government should at once definitely say which lines were to be constructed and which were not. Mr RHODES said he would propose a line that would be a very beneficial one —that from Christchurch to Akaroa.

Mr VOGEL said he had observed a smile on the face of the hon member for Taieri when he mad his proposal. He hoped the hon member would not (urn the Government proposals into buffoonery. Mr REID objected to the Colonial Treasurer attempting to put members down by snubbing. His occupation of a seat on the Government benches for the time being did not confer the right to treat members in any such manner. His position in the House was quite as important as that of Mr Vogel. Mr BELL said the Government had brought the difficulty on themselves. They had come down to the Houfo with proposals which he, as a thick and thin supporter of the Government, was bound to support, and now they were inviting suggestions from members on all sides, instead of confining themselves to, and taking a stand upon their own schedule. They were, in fact, by the present action, asking the House to completely reverse the policy enunciated in the financial statement. Mr O’CONOR gave notice of his intention to move that a line should be constructed from Mount Rochfort to the Buller. The House having resumed, the Chairman reported that the committee had come to certain resolutions, which were ordered to be considered to-morrow. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. A number of messages were received from the Legislative Council, amongst which was one announcing that the Upper House insisted on its amendments made in the Public Revenues Bill, which contained an objection to the union of the offices of ControllerGeneral and Auditor-General, on the ground that it was not consistent with the public interest, and would effect no saving, of public money, to permit the amalgamation of the offices. Mr VOGEL said that whilst he could not at all agree that it was to the interest of the country that the other branch of the Legislature should interfere in a subject of which it was quite impossible they could be possessed of any accurate knowledge, the Controller being an officer of the House of Representatives, having the control of funds appropriated by the House on behalf of the taxpayers of the country, and -whilst he could not conceal from himself that such an interference -was of an unwise nature, he must admit that it was not absolutely an interference with the appropriation of funds, and therefore was not quite unconstitutional.' He could not allow the matter to pass without remarking that whilst; members were quite willing to moralise and talk of reducing the public expenditure the moment the House came to reduce that expenditure by proposing to touch the salary of any particular person, and that person was fortunate enough to have friends in the House, there was at once an impediment in the way of reduction. This proposal, however, was not to reduce expenditure, but to alter an unwise provision, which he might say had, by accident, got into the Public Revenues Act. It was not because he agreed with the proposal of the other branch of the Legislative, or because he considered that body bad been very well advised, or that he had taken into consideration how strong the personal influence which had been brought to bear to cause an interference in the matter, that he now moved that the amendments be agreed to, but because it was now too late in the session to interfere in the matter. He would, therefore, ask the House to agree with him when he moved that the amendments of the other branch of the Legislative be agreed to.

Mr ROLLESTON said he must protest most strongly against the statements of the Colonial Treasurer. He entirely disagreed with what had fallen from the hon gentleman, and considered that it was a very wrong thing that the question of personal influence should have been brought in by the Government. The Colonial Treasurer had stated that the striking out of the clause was the result of personal influence, and that because individuals had friends in the Legislature therefore changes of this kind, which were advantageous to the country, were prevented. The hon gentleman knew, and nobody knew better, that the change effected by the bill was deprecated by the Public Accounts Committee — that there was, in fact, an understanding with that committee that the clause should be struck out. At anyrate he thought it was objectionable that the Government should state in the House that personal influence had been brought to bear by the members of both branches of the Legislature to carry out objects detrimental to the public interests. Mr J. E. BROWN though the questions of personal influence should not have been referred to, but they were indebted to no one member of the House for that kind of influence more than to the hon member for Avon. When it was proposed that any reduction should be made in the estimates, when they were before the House, the hon member was the first to urge personal considerations ; in fact it was a hobby with the hon member, and yet he objected to any reference being made to it in the House. He could tell the hon member that the civil servants had nothing to thank him for ; his advocacy of their interest in the House had done more to injure their cause than anything else, and he could hardly complain when the Colontal Treasurer told him of the result of his action. Mr YOGEL said the hon member must have been mistaken in what he stated about the Public Accounts Committee having come to sucha decision ashe hadmentioned, or that the

Government had entered into any such agreement as that he had spoken of. It might be very agreeable to him to suppose what he had stated. The hon member did not surprise him at all by his protest against the objections of the Government to the exercise of personal influence in the House, because the very life of the hon member was embraced in the exercise of bis personal influence in the House. When an important discussion came on in the House the hon member failed altogether to listen to any arguments adduced, but immediately began buzzing about, saying to hon members, “Oh, you must do so and so ; never mind the speeches that are being made.” He was not speaking without warrant when he stated that there was a large amount of personal influence exercised in this matter. He thought he was not incorrect in saying that the hon member had written a letter on the subject, which was read in the other branch of the Legislature when the matter came before it. He would repeat that personal influence had had a great deal to do with the throwing out of the clause in the other House. He was quite aware that some hon members had read the dause upon its merits, but he certainly did not expect that the other branch of the Legislature would have interfered in a way which certainly this House would not have expected them to interfered in a matter in which they had not the same means of judging as had the members of that House. He said that such an interference barely fell short of an unconstitutional proceeding, and he only regretted that the lateness of the session prevented him fighting out the question as it should be fought out. THIRD READINGS. The following bills were read a third time : The Representation Act Amendment Bill, the Provincial Acts Validation Continuance Bill (to enable the Provincial Councils to adapt their acts to the Highway Boards Bill), the East Coast, District Land Titles Validation Bill, the Poverty Bay Grants Act Amendment Bill, the Plan of Towns Regulation Bill (with a new clause, providing that any person laying down a street in contravention of the act should be guilty of a misdemeanor), the Timaru and Gladstone Board of Works Act Amendment Bill.

Friday, November 10. The Speaker took the chair at half-past 1 o’clock. PAYMENT OF MEMBERS. Mr FITZHERBERT, the House having gone into committee, moved “ that the payment of members be fixed at £lO5 per regular session, 40s per diem being deducted for each sitting-day a member may be absent from attendance, unless he be prevented from attending by illness. Special sessions, if any, to be paid for at the rate of 20s per day. That tlieibove rule of payment shall continue in force during the present Parliament and apply to the present session, and be exclusive of travelling expenses to and from Parliament, the above proposed scale ot payment not to refer to the Speakers of the two Houses, Ministers of the Crown, and to the Chairman of Committees.” The Select Committee appointed by the House had met and discussed the matter, and had requested him as chairman, to propose the above resolution, which was founded on the report of the committee. He would observe that although it was now late in the session, it would he very undesirable that the matter should be tided over till the next session, when there would be a repetition of the discussion which took place at the early part of the present session. The investigations of the committee had led them to this conclusion : that whereas the general opinion was that the principle of payment of members was an exceptional custom, they found, on the contrary, that the payment of members was the rule, and that the non-payment was the exception. A discussion on the motion ensued. Au amendment moved by Mr O’Conor, that instead of 40s per diem being deducted for non-attendance of members, an amount proportionate to the length of the session should be deducted, was carried. The payment is to extend to members who reside in the place where the Parliament is held, Mr Fitzherbert stating that the question had been discussed in the committee, and the special stipulation unanimously agreed to. The motion was then agreed to. CONSTUCTION OF RAILWAYS. Mr REID asked the Minister for Public Works whether the Government had considered Messrs Connor, M‘Kay & Proudfoot’s offer to construct railways ; if so, whether they are of opinion that the terms of that offer are as favorable to the colony as those of the agreements made or about to be made with the Messrs Brogden, assuming that payment is to made in cash or debentures? Also, what action the Government intend to take in reference to the above or any similar offer ? Mr GISBORNE said the Government had been so pressed with legislative duties during the last few days that they had not been able to consider the offer, and he did not think they would be able to do so until the session closed. The railways to be gone on with would then have been decided on, and they would then come to a decision on the matter. In the meantime it was impossible that the Government could have arrived at Buch a definite conclusion as was due to so important a matter. Mr REID said as it seemed impossible to get any answer from the Government during the session, he would repeat the question “ after the session.” THE TELEGRAPH INQUIRY. Mr STAFFORD brought up the report of the Telegraph Committee, which will be found elsewhere. The hon gentleman stated that he had been very anxious to get the report in time to be laid before the House that day. He moved that the report be received. On the motion of Mr Yogel, the report was read.

Mr VOGEL desired to know whether the hon member intended to move that the report be adopted. After the great attention which had been bestowed on the subject, the House would be rather stultifying itself by not adopting the report of the committee. If the hon member did not move that the report be adopted he should be compelled to do so himself. ... Mr STAFFORD had no objection to move the adoption of the report, but whatever day was fixed there should be sufficient time given to members to consider the evidence, and those who desired to do so should have an opportunity of reading the whole of it before entering into a discussion on the consideration of the report. As a general rule the House, of course, could express an opinion with regard to reports, but nothing was more absurd than the motions made by some hon members that the House should concur in the reports immediately they are brought up, because that assumed that the Hou«e had done what the Committee had done, viz, that they had heard the evidence. He was quite willing thatthe report should be willing because it was desirable that the House and the country should be made aware that the charges had, as he himself believed, been substantially removed. He was not prepared to move the adoption of the report at that moment, but would move that the report be considered tomorrow. , , i Mr CREIGHTON thought there would not be sufficient time to consider the evidence before to-morrow. He must-' say that, for one, he had heard the contents of the report read with a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction, and he had no doubt it would be received with the same feelings when it was circulated throughout the country. The hon member for Timaru had certainly not moved the motion in any friendly spirit to the G-overnment, and he hoped the report would be bound up and printed with the journals of the House. Mr M‘LEAN thought it would be nothing but right that the hon member for Timaru should move that the report be adopted tomorrow. Hon members had had plenty of opportunity of hearing the evidence, and as it was all in print now, those members who desired to debate the question would' have plenty of time to consider the evidence before to-morrow. After all that had taken place, it was extremely desirable that the report should be adopted, and that it should go to the country in an authoritative form. Mr SHEPHERD said he was perfectly satisfied with the report of the committee, and was quite prepared to accept it as giving a fair statement of all the facts of the case. He did not desire to read the evidence to enable them to debate the question. He quite agreed that the report should be adopted by the House in order to set aside the injurious influences which had been spread throughout the colony. He looked upon the report of the committee as the best and only means of restoring that confidence in the Telegraph department which it was desirable should exist. Mr VOGEL wished to make a few observations before the question was put. He did not desire to provoke any discussion, nor did he desire to put any hon member to any inconvenience, but he was sure hon members would sympathise with the Government, and would admit that during the early part of the session they were subjected to a great amount of contumely on account of certain matters in connection with this subject. He was -now happy to say that the hon member for Timaru had conducted the matter with the greatest consideration towards the Government.

Mr ROLLESTON said that whether the report was considered to-morrow or not, he was quite sure that the country would respond to the exculpation of the telegraph depart ment and the Government. Mr FOX said the G-overnment were quite satisfied with the result of the inquiry, and, no doubt, there were many disingenuous persons who would be satisfied too ; but there were other disingenuous persons who would say, “ Oh, but that report was not considered by the House.” Ho hoped the House would consent to consider the report next day. Mr STAFFORD then moved, That the House has received the report of the Telegraph Committee with great satisfaction. The motion was agreed to. NELSON SOUTH-WEST GOLDFIELDS Mr HARRISON proposed, That it is desirable that the Government should during the recess devote its attention to the subject of the application of the goldfields’ revenue to goldfields purposes, with a view to introducing a measure in the next session to secure the expenditure of the rtvenues raised under the Goldfields’ Duties Act, 185 S, and the Goldfields’ Act, 1866, for the purposes to which such revenues were by the said acts intended to be applied. Mr CURTIS would not object to the motion, provided the hon member would permit the addition of the words, “ Provided that the Government shall find, on inquiry, that the goldfields’ revenue has not been so expended.” A long discussion between the two hon members ensued upon the motion. Mr VOGEL requested the hon member to withdraw the motion. It was the intention of the Government to bring down a bill next session, which would satisfactorily deal with the matter ; in fact, the bill the Government would bring down would be in the nature of a new Constitution Act. MESBAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR. The SPEAKER announced that he had received a message from His Excellency the Governor, transmitting the Land Transfer Act, the Wellington Reclaimed Land Act, and the Supplementary Estimates. Amendment was made in the Reclaimed Land Act. In the debentures to be raised by the city for the purpose of carrying out the arrangement for the purchase of the wharf, there was no provision by which the Building Society

would purchase debentures. The amendment enabled the .Building Society to take up shares, if they should so feel inclined. The other amendments were agreed to. MESSAGE FROM THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The SPEAKER read the reasons assigned by the Legislative Council disagreeing in the course suggested by the House of Representatives in reference to this bill. Managers were appointed to draw up further reasons, and to report to the House, and at a subsequent stage Mr Fox brought up the reasons, which were in effect, “ that it is beyond the power of the Legislative Council to alter or vary the distribution of moneys authorised by the Assembly.” SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES. Supplementary Estimates were brought down to the House and passed. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE. Mr Fitzherbert brought up the report of the Public Accounts Committee. Important matters were contained in it with reference to the system of audit, upon which Mr Vogel made a statement to the House in effect similar to the opinions already expressed by him during the passage of the Public Debts Bill. THE WELLINGTON DEBTS BILL. This bill was transmitted from the Legislative Council A’ith amendments, which were disagreed with, and managers appointed by the House to confer with the Legislative Council. NEW RAILWAYS. Mr GISBORNE announced that the Government would consent to the addition of the following lines to the schedules :—Tokomairiro to Lawrence, Mount Rochfort to the Buller (coal line), and Ashburton to Temuka, the first not to be commenced until the commencement of the trunk line. The Government would also consent to the construction of the line from Waitara to Wanganui, but would ask the House for a further'appropriation of £50,000. Surveys would also be pro posed of the lines from Dunedin to Moeraki, and from Auckland to Onehunga. These were the only additions the Government would assent to. The committee having agreed to the proposals, they were reported to the House. The committee then went into committee to further consider THE RAILWAYS BILL. The railways agreed to in a former committee were added to the schedule of the bill. The line from Rolleston, to Malvern, Canterbury province, was transferred from the coal line schedule, and made a branch line. The bill was then read a third time, and passed. THE BRANIGAN PENSION BILL. This bill was read a second time, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Mr Swanson and Mr Gillies announced their intention to oppose the bill. Mr M’Lean, in answer to Mr Reid, said he would insert a clause providing that the pension should cease in the event of Mr Branigan’s recovery. PARTY PROCESSIONS BILL. The second reading of this bill was proposed, but much opposition being offered, the Government promised to make known its opinion on the bill next day. THE IMMIGRATION AND PUBLIC WORKS ACT. This bill was committed. All clauses relating to the Board of Works had been expunged. An amendment was proposed in the clause providing that portion of the Nelson shave of the Middle Island Railway Fund should be spent on roads m the Nelson South-west Goldfields, to this effect: that instead of leaving it to the Governor in Council to settle the amount, a definite proportion of 4-llths should be applicable to the South-west Goldfields. The Government promised to bring down a new clause on the subject. The House was sitting in committee when we went to press.

Saturday November 11. The Speaker took the Chair at one o’clock. REPORTING DEBATES COMMITTEE. Mr HARRISON brought up a report from the Reporting Debates Committee. It contained references to many matters pertaining to the duties of the committee, firstly, with regard to the difficulties connected with printing Hansard at the commencement of the session, which were attributable to the strike amongst the workmen. The report stated that the committee had evidence brought before it that the men had just ground for many of the grievances alleged, and that there was a want of accord between the Government printer and the men wliick was not conducive to the efficiency of the establishment; that during the time the men were out on strike offers were made by Mr M'Kenzie, of the Independent office to print the Hansard, but that the Committee did not feel justified in recommending the removal of Hansard from the Government printing office ; that annual changes in the reporting staff were undesirable, because it could not be expected that gentlemen from other colonies coming on for the session only could be expected to understand the politics of the country or become familiar with Parliamentary forms ; that the committee were of opinion that the salary paid to the two permanent reporters, £2OO per annum, was too low and that the Government should consider the whole matter, the committee recommending that salaries of £3OO per annum should be paid to a full staff; and that two additional reporters should be employed during the session for committee work only. The committee repeated their opinion that the printing of Hansard should not be removed from the Government printing office, and recommended the Government to take the whole matter into their consideration with the view of remodelling the reporting staff. LAW PRACTITIONERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The report of the Managers appointed to confer with Managers of the Legislative Council on this bill was brought up. Some slight modifications on amendments made

by the other House had been effected. Mr O’Rorke said further effort would bo made by the Managers to re-insert the clause giving effect to the wishes of the Lower House, by which immediate relief was granted to Mr Smythies. At a subsequent stage Mr Vogel moved that £IOO be granted to Mr Smythies to defray the cost of future proceedings before the Court. The motion was agreed to. RESOLUTIONS PROM COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. The remaining resolutions were reported from Committee of Supply. Mr Vogel then moved the first reading of THE APPROPRIATION BILL. Mr BATHGATE, before the motion was put, wished to move an amendment in the bill, and to make a few observations. What he had to move was, “ That, in the opinion of this House, provision should be made to enable the appropriations to be continued for a further period of six months.” He would direct the attention of the House to the late period of the year to which the session had now extended. The Parliament would have to meet again in June or July, and it was impossible that in six months’ time the Government could come before the House and give a satisfactory account of the exceedingly important business which had devolved upon them as the result of the legislation of the present session. Under ordinary circumstances the House would have to meet in a few months, and the Government would be able to tell them absolutely nothing. Ho would like to give them a little more time, so that when they came before Parliament next session, at Dunedin, the whole business of the Government would be in such a state as that they could give some satisfactory account to the House. There were many important measures which should be distributed throughout the country, such as the goldfields measures, the Education Bill, the Insolvency Bill, and the Licensing Bill. These bills should be in circulation at least three months before the House met at Dunedin, in order that members might be able to discuss them, in accordance with the ascertained wishes of the people. They had already stamped the session as the IC retrenchment session,” by a determination to reduce the public expenditure, and if they met again in six months it would be impossible for the Government to have taken any steps to carry the resolutions into effect. Taking all these circumstances into account he thought it desirable that the House should permit the appropriations to extend over twelve months from date. He would move the motion which he had read.

After a long debate the motion was put and negatived on the voices. PUBLIC RESERYES BILL. Reasons for insisting on the amendments made in clause 6 of this bill, were transmitted from the Legislative Council. The consideration of the message was postponed till Monday. THE BRANIGAN PENSION BILL. This bill was withdrawn, Mr Vogel promising to bring down a resolution making provision for Mr Branigan in a lump sum of £I2OO, instead of a pension. The House adjourned at a quarter to six. Monday, November 8. The Speaker took the chair at 12 o’clock. PETITION. Mr VOGEL presented two petitions from Otago with reference to the Clark Land Sale. In answer to an enquiry from Mr Shepherd, Mr Vogel stated that the sale of any portion of the goldfields contained in the 50,000 acres was illegal. WELLINGTON RECLAIMED LAND BILL. The amendments made in this bill by his Excellency the Governor were agreed to, the following new clause being added:—“ Notwithstanding anything contained in any act relating to Building or any other Benefit Societies in New Zealand, or in the rules of any such society to the contrary, it shall be lawful for the governing body of any such society to invest in any mortgage to be made under the provisions of this act, any accumulated funds which, under the provisions of any act relating to Building or other Benefit Societies, or any rules thereof, may be invested in real or Government securities.”

NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY ACT REPEAL BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this bill an acrimonious debate, altogether foreign to the matter of it, took place, the ehiefspeakers being Mr Stafford, Mr Pox, Mr Rolleston, and Mr Vogel. _ The keynote for the opposing forces to assail each other was given when Mr Bathgate proposed the following motion previous to the House going into committee on the bill.-—“ That it be an instruction to the committee to so amend the bill as to make it a repeal of the University Act, 1870, and the House gives this instruction on the understanding that, if during the present session the bill is not passed, the House requests the Government to withhold the payment of any portion of the £3OOO voted for the New Zealand University beyond the amount required to discharge the liabilities incurred to date.” The occasion was then availed of for the firing of the parting shots of the session, the proceeding being characterised by a similar display to that made on the termination of the last session. The bill was then read a third time. PAYMENT OF PROVINCES BILL. A message from the Legislative Council was transmitted on this bill. It stated that theLegisative Council had considered *he amendmen*of the House and returned the bill with amendments and certain suggestions for the consideration of the House. The Legislative Council could not assent to the reasons adduced by the Lower House for disagreement, because they considered that the amendments to which the House objected were strictly within the powers of the Council to make. The Council recognised that the bill was part of the financial policy of the Government, and therefore would consent to abstain from exer*

cising their right on the condition that the bill should only operate to the end of the financial year, and that the opinion of the highest law officers in England should be obtained. „ . ~ Mr FOX moved that the House should concur that the bill be so amended as to restrict its operation to the close of the financial year; that the House should concur in the proposal of the Legislative Council that the opinion of the law officers of the Crown in England should be obtained on the question whether, in accordance with, the practice of the Imperial Parliament, the amendments made by the Legislative Council were within its functions, having regal’d to its constitution and privileges as conferred by the Privileges Act, 1865. . Mr ROLLESTON moved the addition of the words “ with a view to assist the Legislature in coming to a decision.” These words being added, Mr Fox moved that Mr O Rorke, Mr Brandon, and himself should be appointed managers to further confer with the Legislative Council. Mr O‘RORKE was afraid he would not be able to serve, but he could do service by directing the attention of the House to a decision in a similar case which occurred iu 1852, on which Mr Carleton, the then chairman of committees, took the opinion of the Speaker of the House of Commons, which was against the Legislative Council. The whole of the records and correspondence in that case would be found in the Journals of 1864. Mr CALDER did not consider the case an apposite one. He thought it would be found, if the opinion of any high legal authority were taken, that the ground taken up by the Legislative Council was correct. Mr G. M'LEAN hoped in future the Government would be careful in framing their bills. The difficulty had arisen entirely through the want of preparation displayed in their bills. Mr FOX said the hon member appeared to have lost sight of the fact that the privilege claimed by the Legislative Council was not only the control of the expenditure of moneys; it governed all matters connected with the regulation and disposal of the taxpayers’ money. That was the right sought to be obtained by the other branch of the legislature. The motion of Mr Fox was agreed to. PETITIONS COMMITTEE. The final reports of the Petitions Committee were brought up. The petition of Craig, one of the parties to the suit, Mohi v Craig, was reported on. The committee reported that the case was one in which, they could not interfere at so late a period in the session. In concluding their labors the committee reported that they had been engaged during forty-three days examining 263 petitions containing 42,274 signatures. The costs incurred were very trifling. Forty-nine witnesses had been examined, and none were summoned at any cost to tile colony for telegrams. The committee hoped steps would be taken by the Government during the recess to remove the nuisance caused by the kitchen under the room in which the committee had held its sittings. water supply to the goldpields. Mr MERYYN asked whether the Government had decided upon what principle they proposed to allocate to the different districts of the colony the sum of £30,000, which it was proposed to expend for the purpose of water supply to the goldfields. He desired to know whether they intended to appoint any person to ascertain what were the requirements of the different portions of the colony. The, inhabitants of his district were anxious to take advantage of the scheme, and he had been applied to in the matter, but he could not advise them what course to take. Mr GISBORNE said there had been some alteration in the mode of applying the fund for water races on the goldfields, and the Government had had no time to consider the alteration with a view to the allocation of the money. Therefore, he could hold out no prospect of giving the hon member a definite reply. Mr SHEPHERD trusted the Government would give the matter their earliest consideration. He also had received a communication on the subject, and it was very necessary that it should be known in what way the money was to be divided. Mr MERVYN asked whether there was any likelihood of the Government being able to give a reply before the end of the session. Mr GISBORNE: None. PICTON AND BLENHEIM RAILWAY. Captain KENNY asked the Government whether they would be prepared at once to make arrangements for the construction ot the Picton and Blenheim Railway. The surveys were now in a forward state, and thework was quite ready to be entered upon. He > would like to have an answer from the Minister ot Public Works. It was a question of great importance to his constituents, and. one that they had been greatly disappointed about. . . n Mr CALDER wished to remind the Government that they had, on a former evening, promised to inform the House what railways would be gone on with during the present year. Mr VOGEL did state on a former evening, when he was temporarily filling the chair .°| his colleague, that he would do so, but he tola the House that if they authorised a larger number of railways than the Government could undertake to place on the schedule, which they could not possibly construct, it would be obvious that they would have to act on their own discretion as to the railways to be constructed. The Government had, however, determined to put a stop to any further additions to the schedule, and in respect to the railways which had been authorised, in addition to those proposed by the Government, the Government gave a. declaration with respect to the railway irom. Lawrence to Tokomairiro, that that railway should go on as soon as. the trunk railway to

Tokotnairiro showed signs of advancement. With respect to the railway between Wanpanui and Waitara, the Government would go on with it a« soon as possible. With respect to the line between Ashburton and Temuka, really the Government were already constructing a line between Ashburton and Timaru. The proposals as originally stated by the Government were that it was very much their option that in all the provinces some works should be poing on If the rest of the Government did not consider the additional lines authorised to be beyond the number and expenditure proposed, then it would be a question from time to time how far they should be pressed on, so as not to interfere with the other branches of railway. Mr GISBORNE said the Picton railway and the Auckland railway, having been authorised last session, he thought they had a preferential claim to the other railways. He might assure the lion member that the Picton line would be gone on with as soon as possible. THE HURUNUI BRIDGE. Mr RHODES called the attention of the Government to the condition of the Hurunui Bridge, which he stated to be very bad. The bridge did service for three piovinces Canterbury, Nelson, and Marlborough—but the province of Canterbury had refused to contribute its share towards its repair, which was now a matter of great necessity. Mr GISBORNE said the lion member was aware that with regard to certain bridges the Legislature had made special provision for their construction even before the lines of railway reached them, but this particular bridge he understood was erected by the joint action of the provinces of Canterbury and Nelson. He was sorry, now that the bridge was broken, that they could not agree to repair it. If the Provincial Governments could not make any arrangement to mend the bridge, the Government would do all in their power to remedy the matter. Mr ROLLESTON said it was out of his power to interfere on behalf of his province. As far as bis influence would go he would use it to have the bridge repaired. He had no doubt that the province of Canterbury would be quite willing to bear its share of the expense, but until the Provincial Council authorised the expenditure he waff powerless in the matter.

THE DEPARTURE OF MEMBERS. Mr GILLIES asked the Postmaster-General a question with regard to the departure of the st e liners. There was a steamer advertised to sail to-morrow afternoon, and he wished to know, on the behalf of several members, whether the Government would be prepared to delay the steamer and make arrangements for her sailing direct to Auckland, without putting in at Nelson. Mr ROLLESTON put a similar question with regard to the departure of the steamers for the South. Mr YOGEL said if the session was over m any reasonable time to-morrow, it would be desirable that members should leave early in the afternoon ; but there was a possibility of the prorogation taking place late in the day, and in that case the departure of the steamers would be delayed. In any case, if the other steamer did not go North, the Luna would be placed at the disposal of members. The SPEAKER called attention to the fact that he hoped a quorum would be left in the House—he hoped hon members would not run away before the business was concluded. If any hon member should call his attention to the fact that there was not a quorum of eighteen members, it might necessitate a call ®f the House. Mr GILLIES said they had no intention of going away until the business was over.

THE BRANIGAN PENSION ACT. This bill was read a third time. It mates provision in a lump sum of £I2OO, to be invested for the benefit of Mr Branigan’s wife and family. Mr Swanson still opposed its passage. He would prefer to see rewards offered to discoverers, such as Mr Ring, who was the person who discovered the first gold in the colony, or for the discovery of coal fields. He saw no reason why Mr Branigan should be specially provided for. There were plenty of applicants for the position he occupied, who would have been glad to have obtained the appointment, without the addition of this pension. It struck, him as rather remarkarble that these men with large salaries could not provide for themselves. If they could not do it, how could men of smaller means. He moved, and withdrew a motion, that the amount of £1,200 be reduced to £3OO. The bill was then allowed to be read a third time. third readings. The following bills were read a third time:— The Crown Grants Act Amendment Bill, the Sharebrokers Bill, the Sheriff’s Act Amendment Bill, the Public Stores Bill, the Merchant Ships Officer’s Bill, and the Limited Liability Companies Winding-up Act Amendment Bill. BILLS DISCHARGED. The following bills were discharged The Grey mouth and Nelson Goldfields District Bill, the Native Land Court Bill, the Insolvency Bill, the Licensing Act Amendment Bill, the Deceased Sheep Bill, the New Zealand University Act Repeal Bill, the Friendly Societies Bill, the Westland Public House Bill, the Canterbury Waste Lands Bill, the Thames Goldfields Tramways Bill, the New Zealand University Act Amendment Bill, and the Party Processions Bill. REFUND TO PROVINCE OP MARLBOROUGH.

Mr EYES moved the House into Committee to consider of an address to the Governor, requesting his Excellency to recommend the refund to the province of Marlborough of the sum of £l5O, being the amount charged against that province as compensation to Alex. S. Dreyer, for the nonissue of a Crown grant. The resolution was

carried on a division by 22 against 14 It was then reported to the House, and ordered to be considered to-morrow. CASE OF A. S. DREYER. An address to his Excellency the Governor, praying that his Excellency will place the sum of £6B lls on the Supplementary Estimates as compensation to Alex. S. Dreyer, was agreed to in committee of the whole, and the matter allowed to stand over, on the understanding that the Government would make provision for the amount. CLAIM OF M'GREGOR AND OTHERS Leave was given in committee to bring in a bill to give compensation to M'Gregor and others. The house adjourned at half past twelve. Tufsday, 14th November. The Speaker took the chair at one o’clock. GOLDFIELDS FEES. Mr BRADSHAW asked the Government whether they are prepared to give to Provincial Governments the fees and fines paid into Resident Magistrates’ Courts within Goldfields, in order to enable them to meet a portion of the salaries payable to officers of those courts ? . Mr YOGEL said the revenue received into the Treasury, whether by fees or fine 3, or by taxation, or in any shape whatever, could only be disposed of according to law, and the Government were not disposed either to override the law or to introduce any fresh measure during the present session. Therefore they would dispose of these fees and fines in the manner provided by law. In no shape did the Government see their way to add fresn taxation for the purpose of adding to the amount to be paid to the provinces. CASE OF MR J. S. MACFARLANE. Mr CURTIS wished to ask a question in reference to a petition which he had presented a day or two ago with reference to the case of Mr J. S. Macfarlane. The committee had reported on the case, stating that the peti* tioner was entitled to some compensation, and recommended the Government to make enquiry into the case, also stating what the amount of compensation should be. He wished to ask the Government whether they would be so far prepared to act upon the lecommendation of the committee as to appoint a commissioner, so that some action should be taken in the matter. Mr GISBORNE said he had not seen the petition or the report, but it was clearly one of those claims which should be considered by the House. He was not prepared to say how the Government could deal with any claim which would have to be satisfied out of the land fund of a province. He would look into the matter. THE CLUTHA RIVER. Mr MURRAY asked the Government whether they would during the recess take any steps to have the Clutlia river surveyed for the purpose of improving the navigation. Mr GISBORNE could make no promise in the matter.

agricultural lien bill. A message from his Excellency the Governor on this bill, providing that it shall come into operation on the Ist January next, was agreed to. CASE OE JOHN MARTIN. Mr GILLIES moved that the report of the select committee in this case be agreed to. He thought hon members who read the report would see that the committee had given sufficient attention to the facts, which clearly proved that the petitioner was entitled to some further consideration. The committee did not recommend any special payment to Mr Martin, but recommended that he should be placed in the same position as if he had paid the penalty of £I,OOO for the non-fulul-ment of the contract by Smith. Mr T. KELLY moved, as an amendment, “That there is not sufficient evidence before the House to enable it to concur in the repoi t of the select committee on the petition of John Martin, especially as the reports of the two committees were in direct contradiction, and that the Government should appoint a commissioner to inquire into the matter. He thought that would be a fair compromise. It would be unadyisable to reverse the report or the Petitions Committee. That committee had examined witnesses and had recommended that he should be allowed, in accordance with his own desire, to appeal to the Supreme Court. The Government consented to that being done, and now the petitioner declines doing the very thing he had requested to be allowed to do. Now another committee had recommended that he should be allowed to refer to arbitration. They all knew what that meant, because arbitrators always went against the Government. He thought the whole subject- should be gone over by a commissioner. Mr GISBORNE seconded the amendment. Mr GILLIES wished to point out that the amendment assumed that the House had really had an opportunity of judging of the case. The evidence taken before the select committee was very voluminous, and it was only the late period at which the session had arrived that prevented its being printed and placed in the hands of members. The evidence taken was much in excess of that taken by the Petitions Committee, which bad not examined the documentary evidence submitted on both sides. The reports were not so much in opposition as the hon member seemed to think. It did not absolutely propose that there should be arbitration; it would only be a carrying out of the'principle laid down in the resolution —namely, that the Government should be placed in the same position to the petitioner as if the petitioner had forfeited the penalty to which he had bound himself. He thought the proposal to appoint a commission of very little use. It was, in reality, saying to the petitioner, “ You will have to submit to a one-sided report,” because the commissioner would be tinged by the views of the Government, and the Government having expressed such stron views on

the subject his report would bo most unsatisfactory. It would be much more fair that the petitioner should have an opportunity of submitting the whole matter to arbitration, as it was simply a question of settling the amount. Mr M'LEOD said delay of this kind would have the effect of preventing skilled workmen taking. contracts on account of the difficulty of getting the money, but then the payment of the whole amount recommended by the committee would place the competing contractors in a wrong position. It was nothing but right that he should bear the loss of the £IOOO penalty, but over and above that he thought it was hardly right that he should be subject to loss. The hon member for New Plymouth had stated that the arbitration would be sure to be against the Government. That spoke very little for the characters of the citizens of the colony. It apoeared to him that there was not too much asked. Possibly there was something in the matter which had not come to ligh£ and that might be the reason why the Government did not consent to settle the matter in that way, but as he saw nothing unreasonable in it, he should support the report of the committee.

Mr BRANDON could not see how any injustice could be done to any of the other competitors. That argument might have had some force if Mr Marlin had been the original contracter, but his liability under the contract was restricted to the sum of £IOOO, and he only took the contract in the hope of saving some portion of that amount. Then he had been recommended to finish the contract by the Colonial Architect; it was not expected he would have been confined to any stated price. If another contractor had taken up the contract he would have had to be paid whatever the amount of the unfinished work amounted to, and therefore it was unfair to put MiMartin in the position of having taken the original contract. It had been said that there was no evidence before the House. He submitted that there was ample evidence taken before the first committee; the statement of the Colonial Architect was in itself quite sufficient to substantiate the claim of Mr Marlin. That committee did not deny that the work had been done, but they had decided the case upon a legal point, in which they had .no right to interfere. What the committee said, in effect, was—“ We know he has a claim, he has incurred liabilities, but don t allow him to go to arbitration,” but what said the other committee P If the reports of the two committees were compared the report of tho last one must be admitted to be the most fair. Was it fair to employ a man to build the Governor’s house, and then shirk the question whether they were liable for the expense ? Were they going to shelve the question because the document was not signed, and, behind a legal quibble, say that they should not pay what was justly due? It mig.ht do for a private individual to shelter himself and say he was not legally liable, but it was not such a position as a Government should take up. The Government said they had given the petitioner all he asked for, but he said they had not. He had asked that someone should he named on whom to serve process, and they had refused. They had put the petitioner to great expense, and it was unfair now to say “ we will appoint some one to examine your claim.” That was a most undignified course for any Government to take up when the proposal made by the committee was so reasonable and fair. They said “If he has expended money in excess of the contract let him be at the loss,” but the committee said “ Let him be at the loss of his £IOOO, and refund any amount he may have expended beyond that.” If a commissioner were to inquire into the case he thought he should be instructed to inquire into it on the basis of the report of the committee. Then, he thought, the commissioner should he appointed with the consent of the petititoner. Another injustice to be felt would be that the matter should be deferred till next session. It would be a manifest injustice that, if any amount were found to be due to him, he should be kept out of it till next session, and then have the matter brought up again for discussion. He Bhould vote for the original motion, because he did not consider the amendment a proper one. Mr O’NEILL said it seemed very clear, from the evidence of the Colonial Architect, that Mr Martin had been paid only about £14,000 by the Government, while it had been proved that the value of the building erected was £16,000. He thought the Government should act the part of a private individual, and what a private individual would do would be to go to arbitration. Mr GISBORNE would support the amendment on the ground that the House had now the opinions of' two committees, the evidence of one being printed, and that of the other not printed. It was impossible, he thought, that the members could come to any decision. The Government did not accept the position of being compelled to go to arbitration. The petitioner was at perfect liberty to have said that he would forfeit his contract, but his proceedings showed that he had voluntarily proceeded with the work. It was quite at his own option whether he proceeded or not, and he was not prepared to say that the Government should now be called upon to say to him, “ Oh, pay your £IOOO and we will not expect you to pay any loss that may exceed that.” They must proceed on the presumption that he had taken the work with his eyes open. Mr Martin was a shrewd man of business and knew what he was about at the time he elected to proceed with the work. The Government admitted that there should be further inquiry, and the question now was, what that inquiry should be. It had been decided that he should not not go to law, although he had asked to be allowed to do so. The correspondence showed that that was all he had asked for, and that some one should be appointed to represent the Government.

Now it was a question between arbitration and a commissioner. The experience of the past showed that arbitration was an exceedingly undesirable tribunal for the Government to resort to. People generally looked upon it as a question between a private pocket and the public purse, and the private pocket was only considered, but it was the duty of the Government to be as economical with the public funds as they would with their private pockets, and he thought that was the principle on which any Government as well as any private individual should proceed. What the Government understood by the appointment of a commissioner was that he should make inquiry; 'not that he should be a judicial tribunal. The effect of arbitration would be the giving of a final award, but the report of the commissioner would still be open to the House to decide upon, so that there might be further inquiry when they met next session. The Government would appoint a wholly independent person—independent of the Government or of local or personal feeling. Instead of taking the decision of arbitrators, it would be better that the Government should take evidence upon oath, and appoint counsel to appear on both sides. He thought, in the interests of the public service, and in the interests of justice, no better course could be adopted. Mr SWANSON observed in the report that it put on a percentage of 10 per cent on the amount stated to be due. It rather struck him that if he went into a transaction on the same terms as Mr Martin had in this case he would consider he had done very well if he got out of it with his own money, but there were many doubtful matters connected with the case. When Mr Smith, the contractor, failed, there was a thousand pounds worth of material on the ground and a good deal of work put into the building. That material, he was informed, had never been paid to this day; neither had the workmen been paid for the work done. All these things had been put down in the report as part of the moneys due to Mr Martin, and he gets credit for it, with ten per-cent added, while the workmen had not yet got their money. If he had elected not to go on with the work he would have had to pay the £IOOO down, and the Government would have had the benefit of what material there was on the ground, together with the work done, instead of letting Mr Martin get the benefit of it. He did not doubt that Mr Martin had been induced by tho Colonial Architect to go on with the contract, but clearly the workmen’s wages, which were never paid, and the material, that was also never paid for, could form no part of Mr Martin’s claim against the Government. Whoever that belonged to, he hoped Mr Martin would not get the benefit of it. Mr Fitziierbert supported the motion, while Mr Cai/der would rather have seen the committee arrive at some amount to be awarded to Mr Martin. Altogether he did not think he was entitled to anything whatever.

Mr FOX was sorry he could not concur with the hon member for City West. The first point in the report which appeared to him to be not satisfactory was that portion of the report which said that the petitioner was induced to carry on the work. The committee were particularly careful not to say by whom he was induced to carry it on. They cautiously abstained from stating it as a fact, ar.d he believed it was not a fact at all. If the truth of the matter were known, he thought it would be found that Mr Martin had been “induced” to go on with the work by the prospect of making a profit out of it. If there was any inducement at all, it was that he hoped either to make a profit or to save himself the £I,OOO, and surely that was not a ground on which he could stand in order to expect to be refunded by the colony at large. There were now two courses before them. One was to keep the case open to the consideration . of the House, and in the other the decision would be final, so that he thought they should adopt the course which would allow the case to come on for final decision by the House. He thought the Government should have had something to do with the appointment of the select committee ; then they might have been content to accept its decision. When it was proposed to appoint a committee, he was spoken to on the matter, and he marked the nameß the Government would consent to see on that committee, but only one of those names was placed on it. He happened to be absent from the House when the matter came up, and he regretted that it was so, because he should have taken care that both sides were better represented. It must be acknowledged that the Government would have more confidence in a committee in which it had some voice. Mr PEARCE thought it right to give some reason for not voting for the amendment, and that was that it gave no finality to the matter. If the amendment were carried they would have the whole matter up again next session. He wished to have an absolute and final decision in the matter, and unless the case went to arbitration they could not come to any definite conclusion. He thought it must be clear that the petitioner had spent more money than he had received, and he knew of no other course by which they could arrive at a decision such as he desired to see. He did not desire that the arbitrators should be left to fix absolutely what amount should be paid, but he thought the arbitration should be in terms of the report, the amount not to exceed the actual loss. That would give finality, and would be doing nothing more than justice to all parties. Mr Shepherd and Mr Vogel opposed the motion, which was put and negatived on a division, the numbers being 24 against 20. The amendment was then put and carried. THE STEAMERS. Mr YOGEL announced that an arrangement had been made for the return , of the Wellington from Nelson for the purpose of

conveying the Northern members to their homes. She would then, in all probability, leave to-morrow for the Manukau direct, merely calling at Taranaki on her way. The steamer for the South would probably leave next day at noon, but he must remind members that it depended wholly upon their getting through the business. At a subsequent stage Mr Vogei announced that as the Upper House had committed great havoc in the Railways Bill there was a possibility of two or three days delay ; indeed, he expected that a call of the House was not at all improbable. CASE OP THOMAS CRAIG. Mr W. KELLY asked the Government if it was their intention to carry out the recommendation of the Petitions Committee in the case of Thomas Craig, namely, that the Government should make inquiry into the merits of the case with the view of compensating him for the loss of timber. Mr FOX said the Government had not had time to consider the report and the evidence, but he had no hesitation in the matter as the recommendation was merely that they should make inquiries into the case, but it must not bn understood that the Government in any way countenanced Craig in taking the law into his hands as he had done. INDUSTRIAL ADVANCEMENT. Mr MURRAY moved that it is desirable that the Government, during the recess, should take into consideration measures for the advancement of agriculture and legitimate industrial pursuits, and for developing generally the resources of the colony, by aiding enterprise with advances of public money and otherwise, and should embody such measures in a bill to be submitted to Parliament at next session. Mr FOX said the hon member had called the attention of the House and the country to an important subject; at the same time he might as well have talked to the wild waves of the sea as to members who were anxious to leave for their homes. It was impossible that the Government could devise schemes for the advancement of the industries of the whole colony, many of which must be left to their own resources. The Government, however, might help to develop industries which were in a struggling condition —such as mulberry and silk culture. There were many exceptional cases, but the Government were nob inclined to extend their actions as desired by the hon member. NATIVE RESERVES, GREYMOTTTH. Mr HARRISON moved, that this House doth concur in the recommendation of the Public Petitions Committee upon the petition of the leaseholders of the native reserves at Greymonth. He understood it was the intention of the Government not to oppose the motion, and he would therefore content himself with moving it. Agreed to. The same reply was given to a similar question put by Mr White, with reference to the native reserves at Arahura. GBEYMOUTH AND HOKITIKA. Mr TBIBE moved that, prior to the next session of Parliament, the Government cause to be prepared plans and estimates of railways from Greymouth to Hokitika, and from Hokitika to Ross ; and obtain such information as will assist in forming a correct judgment on the merits of such undertakings. He proposed the motion in the hope that in the next session the House would take those works in hand. They would not only be an advantage to Westland, but would be the means of adding vastly to the wealth of the whole colony. The county had great wealth in her timber, which, if it could only be rendered marketable, would preclude the necessity for sending to Western Australia or to the Seventy Mile Bush for timber for the railways. Mr FOX could not absolutely undertake to say that the work should be done before the next session. The House had been pleased to give the Government so little time that they would have very little to spare, but he would promise the hon member that enquiries should be made. He trusted that some member of tho Government would be able to visit the West Coast Goldfields so as to judge with his own eye 9 of what was required in the district. LIBRARY COMMITTEE. A Library Committee, to take charge during the recess, was appointed. WANGANUI SETTLERS COMPENSATION BILL. This bill (tlie M'Gregor and others claim), was read a first, second, and third time, and passed. REEUND TO PROVINCE OP MARLBOROUGH. The resolution in this matter was ordered to be read that day six months. Wednesday, November 15. The Speaker took the chair at noon. The amendments made in the Immigration and Public Works Bill and the Railways Bill not having been transmitted, a question for discussion was raised on the PAYMENT OE MEMBERS. Mr YOGEL said a difficulty had arisen in respect to the application of the resolution to the cases of three members of the House — the member for Motueka, Mr Parker; the member for Auckland City West, Mr Williamson; and the member for Roslyn, Mr M'Glashan. Tlie resolution of the committee Btated that 40s per diem should be deducted for every day member was absent from his duties. The member for Motueka took his seat rather late in the session in consequence of the proceedings in connection with the election inquiry, but he was in Wellington all the time and was quite willing to take his seat. Then the election of the hon member for Auckland City (Mr Williamson) had been declared invalid and he had to return to his constituents, but he had been the only sitting member from that constituency, although he had necessarily been absent. The same remark applied to the member for Roslyn ; he was the only member who had sat in the House for the constituency during the session. If the resolution were to apply to the whole

of the members of the House it would include those gentlemen. He would like to hear what the hon member for the Hutt had to say on the matter.

Mr FITZHERBERT, in reply, said he had no hesitation in stating it a 9 bis individual opinion that the resolution was applicable in all three cases. Mr FOX wished to know what the position was of members who came into the House daring the sitting of tho session. Was the deduction clause intended to apply to them. He would like Mr Fitzherbert to explain tho meaning of the clause. Mr FITZHERBERT said it was perfectly clear to him that the deduction did not apply during the period during which it was impossible for a member to be present. Mr GISBORNE would then put a crucial test to the hon member. Suppose a member were elected in the last week of the session, and took his seat on the last day, would he be entitled to the whole amount P

Mr SWANSON would object to that, and would put another crucial test. Suppose a member were to die or to go away, and then another member come up to fill the same seat, would they both be paid for their services. They had had something of the kind in Auckland, where two members often drew salary for tho session for the same seat. Mr CURTIS took exception to a statement made by the hon member for the Hutt, that the House had affirmed the principle of “ payment of members.” They certainly had adopted “ payment” to the Wellington members, because they could give a certain amount of time to their private affairs, which members from other parts of the colony could not do. Before the principle of payment of members was finally passed, it was a question which should receive the attention of the country, and he hoped that during the recess the matter would be ventilated, and if the public were of opinion that members should be paid, he hoped they would be paid on something like a principle, and not that the Wellington members only should be paid. He hoped the whole question would receive attention during the recess, as he believed the opinion of the country would be that payment should be made.

Mr O’CONOR agreed with Mr Curtis that they had not yet affirmed the principle of payment of members; what they had done by fixing the amount at £lO5 for the session was no more than to fix the fees for future sessions at what had been found to be the average of previous sessions. Mr YOGEL understood that there was to be attached to each seat an amount of £lO5 to be paid for the session, and that a proportionate amount was to be deducted for each day a member was absent on private business. Mr MERYYN thought the cases cited by the Colonial Treasurer were not at all analogous. In the case of the member for Motueka be had been attending during the whole of the session, and was, in fact, from the first, legally the sitting member. The SPEAKER said he could only recognise members from the date on which they were sworn in. It was agreed that the matter of deductions and travelling allowances should be left to the discretion of the Speaker. VALIDATION act continuance act. An amendment made in this bill was agreed to. The act is to continue in force until May, by which time Mr Gisborne said all the pro vincial legislatures would have met, and would be able to amend their own acts. Mr REYNOLDS thought the act applied to sheep ordinances, and if it did so he thought it should have been made to extend to at least two months after the meeting of the session; otherwise there would be no sheep act in existence. Mr CALDER suggested that the act should be printed, and forwarded to the provinces at the earliest opportunity. Mr ANDREW thought if the act applied to the sheep acts there would be a danger of their being debarred from the advantages of the scab act. The amendment of the Government was agreed to. IMMIGRATION AND PUBLIC WORKS BILL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council in this bill were considered. In substance the amendments consisted in the striking out of the clause relating to the railways classified as main coalfields and branch railways and those relating to the taking of land and the levying of rates for their construction. These amendments having been disagreed to by the Lower House, a conference was appointed, Messrs M'Lean, Gisborne, and Yogel representing the House, and Messrs Sewell, Whitmore and Holmes the Council. The whole of the afternoon having been spent in negotiation on the matter, at half-past 7 o’clock Mr Yogel stated that there had been a considerable amount of agreement upon the subject, although he was not able to say that there had been that amount of agreement which would enable him to report to the House that all objections made to tlie alterations of the amendments of the Council had been removed. The first difficulty was the insertion by the Council of the following clause :—“ The Minister shall be assisted and advised in the execution of the powers hereby vested in him by two properly qualified officers, namely an Engineer-in-Chief and an Assistant Engineer, to be called ‘ the assistant officers.’ ” For this it was proposed to substitute a clause to the effect that the section in the act of last session, which made it necessary that there should be a board appointed at the end of the session, should have its operation suspended till the end of the next session, so that it would be necessary that the matter should be brought on again next session, for the purpose of ascertaining whether it was desirable to appoint a board. On all works to be carried out there should be obtained a report from the Chief Engineer, which report should be laid on the table of the House. The next important matter was tlie striking out of

the clause providing that in the event of any deficiency in the land fund to recoup any charge for railways the deficiency should be made up by a rate to be struck on the land within any such province or district. After a long discussion the managers of the Lower House thought it advisable to accept a compromise, and it was agreed that in the event of the land fund not being sufficient, the balance should be recouped to the colony out of moneys to be raised by direct taxation to be levied within such province or district; that left the character to future consideration. So that the money is to he funded by the province. In clause 12, it was proposed to omit that portion making it necessary to apply to the Superintendent and Provincial Council to apply for land. It was proposed that the Government should set apart land for the purpose, and on such land being set apart it should be applicable for purposes of railways only. The next portion of the disagreement was upon how any deficiency on the cost of construction was to be met. The clause had been struck out, but was restored by a provision to make security partly by a charge upon the revenues of the province and partly by means of direct taxation. Parts 5 and 6of the b 11—branch railways and the mode of making rate —the managers of the other branch could not be got to entertain any idea of restoring, and all the managers of the House could say was that they saw no probability of getting those parts inserted till next session. Much as they regretted that they were not re-in-erted they were not disposed to recommend that the session should be prolonged for the purpose of endeavoring to get them to do what they felt sure no amount of persuasion would induce them to do. They had succeeded in obtaining the reinsertion of the clauses relating to the water supply to the goldfields, but this they had to do on condition that they took out the assistance to the works already in existence. They were not prevented from giving aid in the extension of existing works ; but the managers made it a special condition that they should strike out assistance to those works already constructed. Another objection they had assented to, was that instead of advances being granted in one gross sum they should make advances on the certificate of the proper officer that the works were being proceeded with. There had been a considerable amount of fighting over those clauses providing that the land taken from the provinces should be paid for at the upset price existing in the province, and they were restored upon condition that instead of all the laud being paid for when it is taken, it is to be paid for from time to time as it was settled upon by immigrants, and he believed that a further arrangement would be agreed upon, to the effect that, in the event of the whole land not being occupied in two years, it should be handed back to the province. The managers had endeavored to carry out, as far as possible, the entire wishes of tlie House, and only gave way in instances where they had obtained as nearly as possible the result required. After some discussion tlie amendments were agreed to, and a message arrived from the other branch communicating a similar result as having'been arrived at in the Council. The bill was then passed. APPROPRIATION BILL. Mr YOGEL moved the third reading of this bill. Mr STAFFORD said no doubt the Government congratulated themselves on their successful career during the session. In tho Governor’s speech at the beginning of the session mention was made of an Education Bill, an Insolvency Bill, a Fisheries Bill, a bill for the appointment of a Public Trustee, and bills for the settlement of immigrants on the land, but what had become of those measures. It would have been much more satisfactory to the colony if they had devoted their energies to those measures, instead of making a bag of empty promises. He looked upon the lion member for the Wairarapa (Mr Bunny) as the master of the situation throughout the whole session. Whatever measure that hon member did not approve never found its way to the statute book. The last portion of the farce was now being completed. The Immigration and Public Works Bill was so unworkable that no practical action could be taken under it until it came up for amendment next session. The rate clauses had been struck out, and to leave the scheme without some other source from which to obtain the millions required for their completion than from borrowed money was, to say the least of it, not very encouraging for the future. He wished emphatically to be understood as supporting the action of the hon member for Avon in sharing those prophecies which the Colonial Treasurer had sneered at, in predicting the results of the policy as not only doubtful, but as holding out the most gloomy viewsas to how thefinancial policy of the Government was going to develop itself. Having opposed that policy, he would say that tlie policy meant that the Government should be prudently conducted, and that those who have a permanent interest in the country, for themselves and their children, should not see those interests recklessly trifled with, but so far as they could to awaken the people of New Zealand co the fact that there was very great peril in the manner in which the policy of the Government is to' be worked. He must say that he never at any time felt so much dissatisfaction’ with the future, and dissatisfied with the past. Mr Fox, Mr Gillies, Mr Rollesto.i, and Mr Yogel delivered long speeches, and the bill was then read a third time and passed. MES3AGE EROM THE GOVERNOR. A message from His Excellency the Governor was read. It stated that the Coasting Trade Regulations Bill and the Convicts Forfeiture Bill had been reserved for her Majesty’s assent. The House adjourned at 11 o’clock till a quarter to twelve next day.

Thursday, November 16. The Sbeaker took the chair at a quarter to 12 o’clock. A CONSOLIDATED GOLDFIELDS ACT. Mr O’NEILL asked the Government whether they intended to bring in next session a bill to consolidate the Goldfields Aets. The hon gentleman said it would be remembered that at the commencement of the present session a bill was introduced, which, on being sent to the Goldfields Committee, was thrown out by them. Mr FOX said the Government would make every effort to do what the hon member wished, not only with regard to the goldfields bill but with regard to several other bills. Had the House acceded to the proposal of the hon member for Dunedin (Mr Bathgate) he had no doubt the Government would have been able to devote their attention to several very important matters which it wa3 highly desirable should receive attention,but as it was he could only say that the Government would make every possible exertion to have framed the measures necessary to meet the circumstances of the colony, and would endeavor to push them on as rapidly as possible, at the same time devoting to their consideration that attention which was due to their importance. THE IMMIGRATION AND PUBLIC WORKS BILL. An amendment by the Governor in this bill was agreed to. TnE APPROPRIATION ACT. His Excellency transmitted this bill to the House, with his concurrence in it. THE PROROGATION. The House then adjourned till five minutes N one o’clock, when a message from his Excellency, requesting the attendance of memberr in the Legislative Council Chamber, was received. IN THE UPPER HOUSE, The members of both Chambers being assembled, His Excellency delivered the following SPEECH. Honorable Legislative Councillors and Gentlemen of the House of Representatives — I thank you for the attention you have bestowed on public business, and the consideration you have given to those measures which have been proposed during the session with the object of promoting the advancement and prosperity of the colony. I have to congratulate you on the progress you have made in the noble policy of colonisation, which, inaugurated during the session of the last Parliament, has been vigorously continued by you during the present session. Every one who has the welfare of the colony at heart must eagerly welcome that desire to people the country and to open up its means of communication which has found expression in your measures for promoting Public Works and Immigration and for constructing Railways. Fortified by the support which you have given to the colonising policy, it will be the duty of my Ministers to give effect to it to tlie utmost extent, consistent with provision being made for the employment and settlement of the immigrants introduced, and with, care being exercised that the labor required for other enterprises is not unduly absorbed by public works. I hope that in a few months immigrants will commence to arrive under the new system, and will continue to do so with regularity, in numbers sufficiently large to supply the need of increased population, but not so large as to overstock the labour market, or as to overtax the means at command for comfortably settling them. I hope, also, that within very few months the Railway Works will be under construction in different parts of the colony. I observe with much satisfaction the support you have given to the Californian Service, and trust that the course you have taken will lead to the establishment permanently of a service which, whilst it brings New Zealand in near and convenient communication with Great Britain, also opens the way to large business relations with the prosperous and enterprising people of the United States. It is with great gratification I notice the great improvement in the gold produce of the colony. lam pleased to observe that you attach very great and deserved importance to the valuable industry of the gold miners. I am also able to congratulate you on the improvement in the prospects of the wool and flax producers; and it is with the greatest pleasures I foesee that better days are in store for those who follow agricultural pursuits.

The presence in London of a special agent for the colony—himself a colonist of thirty years’ standing, intimately acquainted with its wants, and who in former sessions has occupied a prominent place in the deliberations of the Parliament of the colony—will, I trust, greatly aid you in the construction of the Public works you propose, as well as lead to the judicious selection of the immigrants you require, and to the making of proper arrangements for their passage to the colony. His presence will also, no doubt, tend to the permanence of those friendly relations which I am glad to say exists between the Imperial and Colonial Governments.

The session ha 3 been profitable in results in respect to that most important stimulus to colonisation, Local Muneipal Government. I am sanguine that excellent effects will result from the pecuniary assistance you have agreed to render to road boards, and from the operation of the Highways Act. I regret that the shortness of the session and other reasons have prevented you legislating on the question of education. Your attention however, has been given to the subject, and its principles have been fully discussed in the House of Representatives: and it is perhaps well that, on a subject on which there exists so many differences of opinion, time should be given to the constituencies to consider more fully the bearings of the measure which was proposed to the House of Representatives.

Gentlemen of the House of Represen-

tatives, — I thank you for the supplies which you granted for the public service, which shall be administered with due care. I am glad, also that you have revised the taxation in some particulars, with a view to providing the ways and means to meet the necessary expenditure of the Government. Honorable Legislative Councillors and Gentlemen of the House of Representatives — Since the commencement of the session there have not been wanting many indications of a growing inclination among the few remaining malcontents of the native race to return to their allegiance, and to resume friendly relations with the Europeans. The presence of the highly intelligent representatives of the native race in the House of Representatives, and the judicious manner in which, I am informed by my Ministers, they have exercised their functions, fully justify the wisdom of the recommendation the House of Representatives has made, that persons of the native race should be called to the Legislative Council. On the best method of giving effect to that recommendation I will consult my Responsible Advisers. I shall forward to her Majesty’s Government for presentation to her Majesty, the addresses which you have passed in both Chambers of the Legislature on the subject of the labor traffic which is being carried on between some of the Australian colonies, the Fiji Islands, and various other islands in the Pacific Ocean. I have no doubt that the melancholy death of Bishop Patteson and his companions will deepen the interest which has already been excited on this question at home, and that her Majesty’s Government will bestow upon it the attention it merits. In releasing you from your labors, I venture to express my earnest hope that, under the blessing of Divine Providence, the measures you have authorised will promote the prosperity of the colony. The House was then prorogued till the 14th January.