PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 41, 4 November 1871, Page 4

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Monday, October 30. The Speaker took the chair at half-past one o’clock. PETITIONS. Mr W. Kelly presented a petition from certain settlers of Tauranga, which was ordered to lie on the table. DISTILLATION COMMITTEE. Mr COLLINS brought up the report of the Distillation Committee. It recommends the alteration of the act so as to allow the brewing of beer by publicans on their own premises. COMMITTEE ON CHINESE AFFAIRS. Mr STEWART brought up the report of the Chinese Committee on the petition of certain miners at Switzer’s, Otago. The committee could make no recommendation in the matter, as they had already reported upon the whole subject, which report was now in the possession of the House. COLONIAL INDUSTRIES. Mr CREIGHTON brought up a report from the Colonial Industries Committee, which recommended the appointment of an unpaid Commission to inquire into the subject of Colonial Industries during the recess. The report was adopted. .■ HARBOR WORKS, OAMARU. Mr STEWARD asked the Government whether they had received any report from Mr Carruthers, the Engineer-in Chief, with reference to the harbor works at Oamaru. Mr GISBORNE said Mr Carruthers had brought up a report which he (Mr Gisborne) hoped to be able to lay on the table either that day or the next. NATIVE RESERVES. Mr TAIAROA asked the Native Minister if the Government would order the payment by the Commissioner of Native Reserves of the balance of the rents still in his hands, derived from native owners thereof ? Mr M'LEAN said that the amount stated as being in the hands of the Commissioner, £SOO, was quite correct, as was shown by returns laid on the table. Since the lion member had put the question on the paper communication had been held with Mr Mackay, who stated that the fund was not a general one, but belonged specially to the Westland and lie also suggested that as a matter of justice it would be better to invest the money in their behalf rather than that it should be frittered away by those who had no right to it. He would, therefore, suggest to the lion member that it was not desirable that the money should be diverted from so useful a purpose. TAIAROA said he would make a further motion in regard to the matter. He was not satisfied that it should rest where it was.

THU POSTAL SERVICE. Mr STAFFORD said he would like to ask the Colonial Secretary a question without notice. He observed that additional papers had been laid on the table with reference to the Australian Postal Conference; and. he would like to know whether the Government had received any communication from the Conference, and if they had received any such communication whether they would be prepared to lay it on the table ? Mr GISBORNE said a letter was received a few days ago, and it had been referred to the Postmaster-General. The Government would have no objection to lay it on the table. ESTABLISHMENT OF COUNTIES. Mr MURRAY withdrew his motion referring to the establishment of counties. COLONIAL FEDERATION. Mr MURRAY also withdrew a motion standing in his name to the effect “ that the Government during the recess should communicate with the Imperial Government and the Governments of Australia and Tasmania, and acquire requisite information, with the view to ascertain the practicability and advantages of an union of New Zealand with all or any of these Government, and the terms and nature of such union.” PETITION OF JOHN HASTIN'. Mr STAFFORD moved that a select committee be appointed to inquire into the matter of John Martin’s petition, and to report thereon ; with power to call for persons and papers. Five to be a quorum. Committee to consist of the Honorable Mr Gisborne, the Honorable Mr Fitzberbert, Mr Curtis, Mr Bunny, Mr Creighton, Mr Gillies, Mr Johnston, Mr Haughton, Mr Eyes, and Mr O’Neill. Report to be brought up within a fortnight. The mover said he was afraid that at this late period of the session no valuable result would come from the motion; at the same time he had promised Mr Martin that every opportunity would be taken to bring the matter forward because the petitioner was not satisfied with the report of the Petitions Committee. It was true that the committee recommended the taking of the very course which the petitioner had asked to be allowed to take, but he (Mr Stafford) had been instructed by the petitioner to say that lie himself was not desirous of following that course, which had been advised by his solicitor, he not caring to encounter the large expenses of a court of law, thinking that on further consideration of the case he would be able to bring before the committee evidence which had not yet been brought before them. He (Mr Stafford) did not fo’-m any opinion himself; lie merely acted as a medium in the presentation of the petition, taking up the same position as he did in the case of Mr Smythies, of giving every opportunity to the petitioner of having his supposed grievances looked into. For these reasons he moved the motion standing in his name. Mr GISBORNE hoped the hon member for Timaru would consent to withdraw the motion. There were many reasons against it. > First, the claim had been settled' by a committee of

the House of Representatives, appointed at the beginning of the session, who had reported against the claim ; secondly, the petitioner asked for something—he asked that he might be allowed to go into a court of law, and it was agreed that that should be done; and, thirdly, it was impossible that the House, at that late period of the session, could go into such an involved question. The petitioner desired that he should go into a court of law, and the Government were quite willing that he should do so. He hoped these reasons would be sufficient to induce the lion member to withdraw the motion. It was undesirable when a committee had made a report that the hon member should advance any specious ieasons why, one committee having fully investigated the question, it should be referred to another. It was usual to send back a report only on special grounds. Mr STAFFORD said be bad given a special reason. The petitioner bad informed him that he had evidence to submit to this committee which was not submitted to the last. Mr T. KELLY wished to state that he objected to the motion altogether, because, in the first place, the Public Petitions Committee was appointed with a view of dealing with petitions of this nature, and a more impartial tribunal could nob be appointed. As the committee bad reported to the Hmse, and their report was in the hands of members it must be clear that there was no reason whatever why its report should be referred to a select committee. The only reason adduced was, that the petitioner bad fresh evidence to bring before the committee. He was asked before the committee whether he had any further evidence to bring forward, and whether he had any evidence in the shape of further documents, and he stated that he had neither any such documents or any fresh witnesses to bring forward. If he had any witnesses it was bis duty to have brought them forward to have had them examined. The petitioner had obtained all that he asked for in his petition, and it would be establishing a bad precedent to siy that the House should compensate contractors for losses sustained on contracts taken by them at their own prices. If they were to commence that kind of thing they would require another million loantomake good the claims of contractors who chose to say that they had sustained losses on their contracts. Mr FITZ HERBERT thought it rather a strong position for the House to take up to say that it would not hear new evidence. There were two sides to every question, and it was simply on that ground that the hon member for Timaru had made his motion. He knew nothing of the merits of the case himself, but he thought it was a very unadvisable position for the House to take up to say that when work was done for the colony they should shirk investigation into the matter when the claim for that work was put in. It was hardly to be expected that the Public Petitions Committee could examine every petition with the care it deserved. He found that they had examined 150 petitions in the space of ten or eleven weeks. There should be no objection to further investigation. Mr CREIGHTON thought it fair to give the petitioner an opportunity of further enquiry. He thought the whole thing settled in an unfair way. The evidence of Smith, the contractor, was not taken at all, and under all the circumstances of the case the House would not be doing justice unless they granted further inquiry. Mr KELLY altogether objected to the statement that the investigation was an unfair one. Mr Creighton was on the committee himself, and why did he not insist that Mr Smith should be called. He seemed now to have quite a fresh view of the whole case. Mr SHEPHERD was much surprised at the conduct of Mr Creighton. He could not understand the conduct of a member of any committee who acted as if he held a brief from the petitioner, and when he found such to be case he (Mr Shepherd) invariably advocated the other side. He denied that there was anything unfair in the whole of the proceedings connected with the petition. The petitioner had been examined, and had obtained all that he had asked for—that he should be allowed to sue the Government. As to the statement that he had further evidence to bring forward, why he did not say so when he was asked the question—“ Have you any further evidence to bring forward ?” He should oppose the motion. Mr PEACOCK objected to the general condemnation showered on all the members of the committee by Mr Shepherd. That hon member had acted all through as if he held a brief for the defendant; so much so that he had to be called to order.

Mr BRYCE thought the petition had been already fully inquired into. The petitioner had been distinctly asked, more than once, if he had any further evidence to call, and he replied that he had not. The committee had devoted a great deal of time to the consideration of the matters contained in the petition and had, he considered, arrived at a very fair conclusion. Mr Gillies and Mr O’Neill supported the motion, and the names of Mr Gisborne and Mr Creighton having been omitted, it was carried on a division. Mr STAFFORD gave notice that he should move the addition of the names of Mr Calder and Mr Swanson in place of those omitted. THE MANAWATU. Mr COLLINS moved that the report of the native meetings held at Rangitikei on the 13bh and 14th of September, and all other papers having reference to the Manawatu dispute, now in possession of the Government, be laid on the table of the House. He thought it would be a pity that the House should break up without any information having been obtained on this subject. He had on several occasions asked for information, and the Premier had always treated the matter as a great joke, comparing him to a naughty

little boy, and he supposed he must look upon the Premier as a disagreeable old woman. But the question was really an important one. It was a question whether they were to continue to spend money like pouring water through a sieve, or in managing the Maoris after a fashion. The money, instead of being paid to the rightful owners, had been frittered away to natives who had not a shadow of a claim to it. The Government seemed to desire concealment in the matter, but he hoped the House would agree with him that it was desirable that the information he asked should be furnished. Mr M'LEAN said the Government had no report to lay upon the table, beyond what had appeared in the press of the colony. A person interested in the Manawatn dispute had madp a communication to the local press, and the Government had received an exactly similar communication, and that was the only information received by them. He denied altogether that the Government had spent money fruitlessly. On a former occasion he had explained exactly what these disputes were about —that they were merely boundary disputes. The difficulties were no greater than that, and since he had made that explanation, a surveyor having a knowledge of the native language had gone up to survey the land, and since then no objection had been made to the survey. He wished to mention that to any fair questions he would never object to give an answer, but captious questions such as those put by the hon member could not be of any public importance. Mr ROLLESTON hoped the Hon the Defence Minister would admit that there were others in the country who wished to have the whole of the history of the Manuwatu dispute placed on record, He would vote with the member for Collingwood. Mr M'LEAN said that the history was as complete as it could be, and had already been laid on the table. It was a history of the last seven years, and was recorded in all the blue books of the colony. If that was the history that was desired, lion members could refer to the same papers. Mr STAFFORD did not know what papers theDefence Ministerreferred to, but the motion indicated very precisely that the papers required referred to what took place on the 13th and 14<th September. He presumed the Government had some intimation of what took place on those dates. The Government must have some knowledge of the proceedings in the shape of commissioners’ or other report, and those papers should be laid on the table, because it was desirable that there should be no reticence in the matter. During the whole of the Waitara war, a committee sat and invited evidence on all possible subjects, and du'ing the late war the hon member for Ran gitikei had put questions to the then Government, every one of which were answered. This was a very large question, and it was highly desirable that the House should have every information whatever with respect to it. He quite agreed with the hon member for Avon that it was the most curious episode in native affairs they had ever experienced He thought the Legislature had a perfect right to expect that every information on the subject of native affairs should be laid before them from time to time.

Mr COLLINS, in reply, said that he did not doubt that the Government would shirk their duty in giving the desired information by saying that he was prompted by a captious spirit, but whether they gave the information or not he would place it on record that he had done his duty in endeavoring to place before the country information on a most important subject. On division the motion was negatived, the numbers being : Ayes, 14 ; noes, 26. ministerial statement. Mr FOX wished to make a statement to the House. He had to announce the fact that the Hon Mr Sewell had placed his resignation in the hands of His Excellency the Governor, and that the Hon Mr Waterhouse had been sworn in as a Minister of the Crown, and would conduct the business of the Government in the Legislative Council. THE CIVIL SERVICE. Mr MACANDREW moved (1.) In the opinion of this House, the cost of the Oivil Service has assumed dimensions altogether beyond the circumstances and requirements of the colony, and must needs be curtailed. (2.) That the Government be requested, during the recess, to amalgamate offices in every direction, where such can be effected without serious detriment to the public service ; and also, that in framing the estimates of expenditure for the next financial year, all salaries, whether under the head of permanent appropriation or otherwise, in excess of £4OO a year, be considerably reduced, save and excepting the salaries of political officers of state, of the Agent-General in England, and those held under special engagement for a limited period. Resolved further, that, in giving effect to the foregoing resolutions, it is inexpedient that officers of the General Government should receive salaries in excess of those paid to the Ministers of the Crown, with the exception of the Chief Justice of the colony. He could hardly conceive it possible that any sane man could doubt the allegation that the civil service had assumed dimensions beyond the circumstances of the colony. It must be admitted by everyone who would take the trouble to inquire into the matter. He knew from his own experience that no matter what Ministry was in office it was difficult to withstand the pressure which was brought to bear on them, and that officps, such as resident magistracies, were created simply to provide for persons who were otherwise destitute. He had moved for a return sometime ago which showed that there were officers in the Government receiving as salaries amounts over £4OO a year which would amount to £25,000 per annum. By deducting a percentage from the salaries of those receiving over £4OO a year he had no hesitation in saying that - at least

£25,000 could be saved without any detriment to the public service, He might observe that he had sent in a list to the Government of suggestions with regard to the province whioh he knew best (Otago), whereby at least £2OOO a year could be saved in the amalgamation of officers without any detriment to the publio service, and he had no doubt that if that amount could be saved in the province of Otago an equal omount could be saved in other parts of the colony. It must be apparent that there was a great inconsistency in officers of the civil service receiving more than the political officers of the Crown. The Chief Justice was the only exception named, and if the resolutions were carried out he would be receiving £1250 against the £IOOO received by the officers of State. He hoped the Government would agree to the resolutions. No doubt, it was one of the most disagreeable and difficult things the Government could have to do, to tackle the reduction of salaries and the amalgamation of offices, and the Government should feel themselves indebted to him for strengthening their bands in the way the resolutions would undoubtedly do. As he had said before, the question had been discussed in the early part of the session, and there could be no opposition to it if there was any real desire to retrench. The civil service of New Zealand presented a monstrous appearance. When the question was before the House on a former occasion he had been twitted by hon members, but he found that in the colony of Victoria there were only four judges to govern 800,000 people, while in New Zealand, where there were five judges, there were only 250,000 people.

Mr BATHGATE seconded the motion. He thought it must be admitted that the salaries were much above the means of the colony to pay ; and whether they took the matter in hand now or not, there could be little doubt it would have to be done very soon.

Mr SHEPHERD would like to see the words “Judges of the Supreme Court” introduced. Mr MACANDREW consented to the amendment.

Mr GISBORNE pointed out that in the way the resolution was worded, it would reduce the salaries of the Controller General,the Auditor-General, and several other officers whose salaries were fixed by act for the purpose of placing them beyond political control. The object of the hon member, he presumed, was to reduce expenditure, and that could very well be effected, in the way several hon members bad advocated during the present session, namely, the amalgamation of offices. With regard to a general reduction, the Government had during the last year, and would during the next year, endeavor to make every reduction in the estimates by not filling up vacancies, unless it were necessary for the efficiency of the service that they should do so. Mr CREIGHTON proposed the omission of all the words after the words' 4 public service ”, in the first portion of clause 2. If the clause were left as it at present stood it would affect the most efficient officers of the service. He could not help remarking upon the inconsistency of the lion member for Port Chalmers, who, when the estimates were passing through committee, uniformly voted with the Government in maintaining the salaries there set down.

Mr STEWARD pointed out a similar failing in the hon member for Eden (Mr Creighton). That hon member had throughout the session wished the House to understand that he was an ardent economist, and when a motion was brought down which would meet all Ins expressed views, he turned round and opposed it. He (Mr Stewart) looked upon the salaries paid by the colony as a growing incumbrance that was absolutely eating up so much of the revenue, that it was affecting the colony in an injurious way. He would vote for the motion as it stood. Mr O’NEILL supported the amendment..

Mr PEACOCK moved the omission of the words “in excess of £4OO a-year,” so as to leave the Government unfettered in their action in the matter of reduction. It must be admitted that they were living beyond their means. He found that if they were to continue the present rate of salaries they would be paying in the province of Canterbury £IO,OOO in excess of their receipts towards the maintenance of the Colonial Government.

Mr MACANDREW replied. Mr Shepherd and Mr Reynolds pointed out that the amendment of the hon member for Lyttelton would have the effect of reducing all salaries, even down to those of £5 a year. It was the high salaries they wished to see reduced; those which were out of all proportion to the means of the colony. Mr Creighton’s amendment was negatived by 27 to 23. This precluded the putting of Mr Peacock’s amendment. Mr Shepherd’s amendment was carried, and the whole of the resolutions passed. LYTTELTON RESIDENT MAGISTRATE. A motion by Mr Peacock, that, in the opinion of this House, it is undesirable that the town of Lyttelton should be deprived of a Resident Magistrate, was carried. LUNATIC ASYLUMS. Mr ANDREW moved that the following resolutions, agreed to by the Joint Committee upon Lunatic Asylums, and contained in the report presented to the House on the 13th October, 1871, be adopted by the House(l.) That the Asylums in the colony have not (save in some localities) either proper or sufficient accommodation for the reception and care of Jlunatics. (2.) That it is expedient that the General Government should take measures to cause proper provision tube made in those parts of the colony where the present provision is insufficient. (3.) That a dulyqualified medical officer from the United Kingdom, having special knowledge and experience in the treatment ot the insane, be forthwith engaged and appointed; and who shall have the supervision and the oontrol oS

all the Lunatic Asylums in the colony. (4.) That the question of a Central Lunatic Asylum be postponed until next session, by which time information will have been obtained from reports of the Inspecting Medical Officer which will serve to guide the action of Parliament, (5.) That whilst steps should be taken to improve all the Asylums of the colony, the state of that at Karori, near Wellington, urgently requires immediate attention and reform.

Mr GISBORNE pointed out that the resolutions committed the House to matters of fact of which members could not possibly be aware. The committee might have had evidence before it of the state of the Lunatic Asylums, but there was no such evidence before the House.

Mr MACANOREW hoped the resolutions would be withdrawn. It would commit them to an expenditure of another £IOOO a year for the salary of an officer to be obtained from the United Kingdom. They had just been adopting measures of retrenchment, and now they were going to create a new office. The Karori Asylum was no doubt in a very bad state, but that could be met by some other means. The Asylum at Dunedin was in such a state as to be capable of receiving the patients from Wellington, merely on condition that the province should pay for their keep. There were the asylums of Auckland, Canterbury, and Otago, quite equal to their present requirements, and it was premature to deal with the question of a colonial Lunatic Asylum at present. Mr FITZHERBERT objected to the House committing itself to such a set of resolutions. He objected to the appointment of a duly qualified medical officer at a salary of £IOOO a-year, which would entail all the additional expense which would be necessary to keep that office up. The proposal with regard to the Karori Asylum was one he did not expect from the lion member for the Wairarapa (Mr Andrew), who had already agreed with the other members of the province that an asylum should be constructed out of the proposed loan for Wellington. Mr ANDREW, in reply, pointed out that objections levelled at the resolutions as applying to himself were erroneous. As regarded the Karori Asylum, it was well known that it wa9 built to accommodate half the number of persons at present in it. The resolutions were negatived. LAW OF LIBEL.

Mr STEWARD moved that this House is of opinion that it is desirable that the law as affecting the privilege of newspapers in the publication of reports of judicial, legislative, official, and other public proceedings, articles, comments, communications, &c., &c., be more definitely defined, and hereby requests that the Government will, during the recess, prepare a bill to be submitted at the next sitting of Parliament for this purpose. Such bill to contain stringent provisions for the protection of the public against, false, libellous, and slanderous reports, and for the punishment of any editor or proprietor of any newspaper publishing any such false, libellous, or slanderous report. The bill which he had brought forward was objected to by several members as it did not go far enough in punishing those who abused the legitimate functions of the press. He was sorry to say that since he had been in Wellington he had seen many disgraceful abuses of the powers of the press which had induced him to provide in the present motion for the punishment of persons who abused the privileges accorded to respectable newspapers. The bill he wished to see brought in would, be hoped, protect the respectable portion of the press, aud punish the class to which he had made allusion. A ease in point where protection was required occurred recently, where a printer had been compelled to pay £3O to compromise an action for libel merely because he had published the proceedings of an incorporated body. WESTLAND PUBLIC-HOUSE BILL. Mr WHITE moved the second reading of this bill, which he said was merely introduced for the purpose of consolidating the ordinances and acts in force in Westland, which were found to conflict with each other. For the reason that he knew hon members were anxious to get through the business, he would not weary them with any other observations. He would thus limit himself on the understanding that the second reading would not be opposed. Mr HARRISON seconded the motion. Mr O’CONOR opposed the bill, on the ground that it did not seek to increase the number of respectable publichouses, but to increase those places which were no better than grog shanties. Mr FOX also opposed the bill. One of the clauses provided that there should be merely one room additional to the bar. He regretted to see an attempt being made to perpetuate those wretched snares which were sapping the manhood of the colony. He also regretted to say that the attempt made by the Government to establish a settlement of Scandinavians at the Manawatu had also been followed by the establishment of one of those detestable grog shops, or rather slab huts, for the sale of grog. He saw many other objections to the bill, which convinced him that the measure was a very hastily prepared one. It sought to perpetuate the old system and made no attempt to introduce the improvements contained in the bill which was recently before the House.

Mr FITZHERBERT said the shanty alluded to by the Premier was in existence before he came into office as Superintendent; however, he was not aware that it was a mere shanty for the sale of grog. The licence was granted on the condition that a respectable house was to be erected. He would make inquiry into the matter, because he felt almost as great an interest in the suppression of drunkenness as the Premier himself.

Mr WHITE having replied, the second reading was ogi’eed to.

Tuesday, October 31. The Speaker took the chair at half-past one o’clock. petitions committeb. The Petitions Committee reported on the petition of certain inhabitants, of Selwyn, Canterbury, on the Brogden contracts, that as the petition was printed, thereby contravening the standing orders, they could not entertain its prayer. PETITION. Mr VOGEL presented a petition from the Mayor and Councillors of Auckland, complaining of the want of communication with the southern portions of the colony. A CORRECTION. Mr WHITE called the attention of the Speaker to the fact that his name appeared in Hansard on both sides of the division list on the question of the reduction of the gold duty. He wished to state that his intention was to vote, as he had voted on several previous occasions, for the reduction of the duty. The SPEAKER said he would see that the error was rectified. WELLINGTON RECLAIMED LAND ACT. The SPEAKER announced that he had received a communication from the Legislative Council, announcing that that body insisted on its amendments in the Wellington Reclaimed Land Bill. REPORT OP HONORARIUM COMMITTEE. Mr FITZHERBERT brought up the report, of this committee, which is as follows: — “ Your committee have the honor to report, that, after examining into the customs with regard to payment of members in different, countries, they have unanimously agreed to recommend the adoption of the following resolutions : —That the payment of members be fixed at £lO5 per regular session, 40s per diem being deducted for each sitting day. A member may be absent from attendance, unless the member be prevented from attendance by illness. Special sessions, if any, to be paid for at the rate of 20s per day. That in the opinion of the committee, the scale of payment of members proposed above shall commence from and include the present session, and shall be exclusive of travelling expenses to and from Parliament.”

CONSTRUCTION OP RAILWAYS. Mr REID asked the Minister for Public Works whether the Government had received from Messrs Connor, M'Kay and Proudfoot, contractors, Dunedin, an offer to the following effect, namely : —Offering to construct 50 to 500 miles of railway for colonial debentures bearing 5| per cent, or cash payment; the price to be settled by arbitration ; the agreement to be without 5 per csnt for profit. Also, offering to pay a cash deposit of per cent on the amount up to £2OO 000, and over that sum and up to £1,000,000 a deposit of \ per cent, or give a reasonable cash security, also, offering to compete for any length of railway by public tender, and give any cash security required by Government; and offering forthwith to deposit, as preliminary security, £IO,OOO to the credit of Government ? Whether the Government consider the terms which Connor, M‘Kay and Proudfoot offer as favorable to the colony as the agreement made or about to be made with Messrs Brogden for constructing railways to the value of £1,000,000 stei’ling, assuming payment to be made in cash or debentures P What action the Government intend to take in respect to the above offer ? He thought it would not be necessary to explain that the gentlemen named in the motion were respectable and responsible contractors within the colony, and as it was possible that the Government had not yet committed themselves in any way to a greater extent than half a million, it would be well to know whether any such offer as he referred to had been made to the Government, and if so whether the terms of such a contract were not more favorable to the colony than the terms proposed to be entered into in extending the agreement with Messrs Brogden, and what action the Government proposed to take with regard to the offer mentioned in his motion. It was well known that the individuals referred to were competent to construct any works, and have successfully carried out any works they have entered into in the colony. He hoped he would receive an earnest and conscientious answer from the Government on the subject. Mr GISBORNE said the Government had not the slightest desire to evade the question. No doubt the offer was a very important one, but as the Government had only just received the offer they had not had sufficient, tune to give any definite reply. It was only yesterday the telegram containing the offer was received, and it had not yet been submitted to his colleagues. No answer had yet been given to the gentlemen making the offer, but as soon as that answer was made there would be no objection to give the hon member and the House the information asked for.

Mr REID : Would the Government give the gentlemen making the offer any encouragement to come to Wellington to explain their offer? The Government would then he better able to understand the terms on which they were willing to accept a contract. Mr GISBORNE said he understood the gentlemen were already on their way to Wellington, but he could not undertake to give them any encouragement until the Government bad decided on their offer. flax inquiries.

Mr KELLY asked the Colonial S ecretary, whether Dr Hector, the chairman of the Flax Commission, will be authorized to complete the inquiries already entered into by the commission, {with respect to mechanical improvements in flax machinery and the properties of the phormium fibre. His reason for putting the question was that during last session the Government were instructed to appoint a commission and) several f points were laid for the commission to attend to. One of the points laid down was, that they should give encouragement to improvements in flax machinery, but he found' on looking over the

report, that 'very little had been done in this direction ; in fact, the inquiries regarding flax are not yet complete. He saw that £SOO had been placed on the estimates this year, and he desired that the sum should be devoted to the object pointed out. The commission had not done what was desired, and he wished to give them an intimation of what was desired. Mr GISBORNE said the Government did not intend t,o put an end to the Flax commission. . There was a sum placed on the estimates in order to enable them to complete their inquiries, and the Government would give every assistance and instruction with that object.

TRADE MARKS. Mr CURTIS asked the Colonial Secretary, if the Government would bring in a bill early next session to protect the manufactures of the colony from fraudulent imitations by the registration of trade marks ? His reason for putting the question on the paper was that many of the manufacturers of cloth in Nelson complained that imitations of their cloth are made in England and imported to many parts of the colony and sold as Nelson cloth, the result being injurious to them. They now wished to be protected by a registration of trade marks or in any other way that would guard them from the sale of these imitations. He might call the attention of the Government to the fact that the Colonial Industries Committee had made a recommendation in the direction in which the motion tends, by recommending that colonial trade marks should be protected. He hoped the Government would be able to frame such a measure during the recess. Mr GISBORNE said the hon member must be aware that there was already a law in the Statute book called the Trade Marks Act, 1866, which enacted all that his motion required. If that act did not effect all the hon member had in view, the Government would endeavor to carry out any suggestions the hon member might make to them on the subject. PUBLIC BUILDINGS, HAVELOCK. Captain KENNY asked the Colonial Secretary whether the Government will place on the supplementary estimates a sum of money sufficient to provide proper accommodation for the departments of Customs, Telegraph, Post Office, and Resident Magistrate’s Court, at Havelock, the present building being totally inadequate for the public convenience; such sum of money not necessarily to be expended until the Government are satisfied, after due inquiry, that the expenditure is necessary P Mr GISBORNE said he was in correspondence with the Superintendent of Marlborough and until he had had an opportunity of coming to an understanding with that gentleman, he was not in a position to state what'the Government would do in the matter. There Wiis to be a sum put down in the supplementary estimates, but he was not in a position to state what the exact amount would be.

MAORI LEXICON. Mr O’NEILL, for Mr Creighton, asked the Native Minister whether the Maori Lexicon has been completed by Mr Colenso, in accordance with the promise of Mr M'l.ean made last, session ; and also, whether the limit of cost then fixed has been exceeded ?

Mr M‘LEAN said the time had passed at which payment was to cease, and since that date no further sums of money had been paid to Mr Colenso on account of the Lexicon, but a great deal of matter had been collected, and the work was now in a forward condition. He was unable last year, from illness, to carry on the work, but since that time he had bestowed a great deal of labor and attention upon it. He had received no pay since March last. He had telegraphed to say that he should like to have the work in the hands of the printer, but a good deal of the matter still remained to be completed, but would entail no further expense to the country beyond what was spent up to March last year. TE KOOTI. Mr GILLIES asked if it was true that Maniopoto had written to the Government ordering them to desist from chasing Te Kooti. Mr M‘LEAN said he had received a communication from Maniopoto of a friendly character, and also a communication from a member of the King party, Manuheri, with whom the Government had lately declined to hold any communication, on account of his connection with the murder of Mr Todd. However, he had re-opened communication himself, and sent a messenger desiring that his Excellency the Governor and himself, as a member of the Government, should visit their territory. Both lie and Rewi were anxious that terms should be come to with the Government. It was not stated that Maniopoto was going to help Te Kooti. The fact was that whenever a difierence occurred between Rewi and Maniopoto, the latter was always in the habit of saying that he was going to help Te Kooti. He could assure the House that that was done in no unfriendly spirit to the Government, or from any desire to make any hostile demonstration towards the Government. The fact of the making of a friendly advancej to the Government was a pretty good indication that the isolation kept up by that tribe is likely to be overcome. There was a good deal of rumor going about on the matter, but there was in reality no hostile spirit. PEIKTINa BETUKNS. Mr REYNOLDS asked the Government whether they will have any objection to make out a return of the cost of the printing of returns asked for this session ; also, whether the Government will have any objection to lay on the table a return of the expenses of witnesses, and to have the same inserted in the journals of the House. THE WELLINGTON LOAN BILL. Mr VOGEL wished to explain the course the Government proposed to take with regard to the Wellington Loan Bill. The Government had supported the hill in the state in which it has passed through the House, on account of their believing it to be necessary that the liabilities of the province should be

discharged ; for the reason, in fact, that it was quite impossible that, they could remain undischarged. Considerable dissatisfaction had been expressed in many quarters of the Houso because the bill brouglu down gave to the province a large surplus after discharging the accrued liabilities, aud the Government proposed to bring down a bill to enable them to discharge the liabilities of the province of Wellington, and which would make it necessary that there should be security taken over special blocks of land, as well as over all the provincial revenue. It was proposed that the hill should also contain a clause by which the Wellington Savings Bank, the liabilities of which were contained in the bill, should be incorporated and become a part of the Post Office Savings Bank, and should cease to exist as a private instititution. There was one item to be added to the liabilities. The Government had given consideration to the matter and had come to the conclusion that- it waß absolutely necessary that a new Lunatic Asylum should be erected, and proposed that £4,000 should be added to the liabilities for that purpose, being careful to see that the money was properly expended. JOHN MARTIN’S PETITION. Mr STAFFORD moved, that the names of Mr Calder and Mr Swanson be added to the Committee on Mr John Martin’s petition. Agreed to. CASE OP ALEX S. DREYEE. The motion of Mr EYES, that this House resolve itself into a committee of the whole to consider of an address to his Excellency the Governor, praying that his Excellency will place the sum of £6B 11s on the supplementary estimates as compensation to Alex. S. Dreyer, was taken as an unopposed motion, and passed in the absence of the hon member, so that no day was named for going into committee. NATITE LANDS. Mr PARATA moved, that it is desirable that the Government should inform this House if they are aware whether the Commissioners of Native Reserves explained the nature of their proceedings to the Maoris, when they applied to have native lands brought under the Native Reserves Acts. Amongst other matters mentioned by the hon member was that the native land at Porirua was in great confusion on account of the negligent work of the commissioner appointed to settle the matter.

Mr M'LEAN was aware that great difficulty had arisen in connection with the lands at Porirua on account, of the act of the commissioner, but that officer had ceased for some time to be an officer of the Government. The Government had instructed an inquiry to be made into the case, which was not one for the House to interfere with. The hon member would have an opportunity of being examined before the committee, and would then have an opportunity of making any statement he might desire to make. He was not aware that any fault could be found with any other commissioners, and in the particular instance referred to every inquiry would be made, because he was well aware that considerable discontent had arisen on account of the action of the commissioner at Porirua.

Mr PARATA was quite satisfied with what the Native Minister had said, and was pleased to hear that a new commissioner had been appointed, but he hoped he was not to eon- 1 tinue the proceedings of the old commissioner. While on the subject, he must complain of the negligence of the Government in not having the acts of Parliament, translated. To this cause was due much of the ignorance that prevailed amongst the Maoris.

The motion was then withdrawn. representation act. Mr FOX moved that the select committee on the Representation Act Amendment Bill consist of Messrs J. E Brown, Tribe, Cai’rington, Eyes, O’Neill, Johnston, J. Shephard, M'Glashan, and the Mover; three to be the quorum. To report in three days. With power to call for persons and papers. Agreed to. THE LIBRARY. Mr O’RORKE moved that it be an instrvQtion to the Library Committee to lay on the table of this House, before the end of the session, a list of the books proposed to be purchased for the General Assembly Library, under the library vote of £3OO for the current year. The amount expended on the library he knew was a considerable sum, and although he did not object to the amount be thought it had not been expended in a judicious manner. He was not aware in whose hands the expenditure of the present vote would rest, and he thought the Library Committee should submit some proposal as to how they intended to spend the money. To his mind the present library building was a very unsatisfactory one, and he would like to see the books placed in a brick and stone building, and it would not be amiss if the commiteee were instructed to submit a proposal of that nature. It would not be at all out of place to spend £IOOO or £2OOO for such a purpose. Mr G. B. PARKER said the matter had been under the consideration of the Library Committee, but they were at present in a difficulty, being indebted to an amount between £2OO and £3OO.

Mr T. KELLY was very glad the hon member had brought the matter forward. In one respect the library was very deficient in books that ought to be provided. The library, as a national one, was very deficient in mechanical and engineering works, and he thought they should procure a set of books on those and kindred subjects. There was really not one work worth being called a proper engineering work, and be would recommend, if they were going to procure a new set of books, that they should make an addition Buch as he suggested. Mr O’NEILL thought it a matter of the highest importance that attention should be paid to the procuring of the very best class of works. They should not hesitate to spend a

few thousand pounds on works of a national character, and in the procuring of a suitable place wherein to exhibit maps, models, and plans. PUBLIC BESERYES BILL. The report of the committee of the whole on this subject was agreed to, and the bill was read a third time. THE RAILWAYS BILL. The House went into committee to consider the resolutions from his Excellency the Governor. On the House resuming, the bill was read a second time, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Mr VOGEL said the Government proposed that instead of taking the discussion on the second reading, it would be better that there should be discussion on each railway to be oonstrueted ; and with that view the Government would at once go into committee after the second reading. REGULATIONS OP ELECTIONS ACT AMEiSDMENT BILL. Mr GISBORNE, in moving the second reading of this bill, said that under the present law the returning officer was obliged to put up a number of booths, one for every six hundred electors. That answered very well in elections for the House of Representatives, but in elections of Superintendents, in which case it was also compulsory, it was found to be very inconvenient- The present bill stated that the returing officer shall cause booths to be erected, but it does not say that he shall have booths erected for every six hundred persons. With this explanation, the bill was read a second time.

PAYMENT TO PROVINCES BILL. This bill was committed. On clause 12 of the new clauses being proposed, “that the amount so to be allotted to each province shall he divided amongst the several boards therein in proportion to the amounts respectively to be raised by such boards by local rates subject, to the provisions next hereinafter contained,” Mr Rolleston proposed as an amendment, “ that the amount so to be allotted lo each province shall be divided amongst the several road boards therein in accordance with the Bchemes submitted by the superintendents of the several provinces, under the provisions of the Payment of Provinces Act, 1870; provided that it shall be lawful for the Governor on the request of the superintendent and Provincial Council of any of the provinces to modify such schemes and to impose such conditions on the distribution of the amounts allotted to each road board in respect of local rating and the nature of the roads to be constructed as to him shall seem fib.” After a long debate Mr Rolleston’s amendment was negotived on division, 22 voting for it and 36 for the words standing as in the bill, PAYMENT TO PROVINCES BILL. The following is the continuation of our report of the debate on this important, measure which we were compelled to hold over in consequence of the arrival of the English news.

Mr Rolleston, in support of his amendment (see yesterday’s issue) said he considered it would prerent the confusion which would arise from an attempt to impose uniform conditions on the whole of the colony. Mr CUETIS supported the amendment because it would have the effect of doing what the Government gave them to understand they wished to do, namely, to spend the money in the outlying districts and tend to the settlement of the country. Mr Reid supported the amendment of the hon member for Avon, although he should prefer to see the amount to be distributed to the i*oad boards fixed in the bill, rather than to be left to the discretion of the Superintendents. Ho looked unon it that if the clause passed as it stood it would seriously impede the settlement of the outlying districts instead of fostering it. Mr J. E. Brown opposed the amendment because if the money were to be left to the Provincial Governments the outlying districts would be neglected and the settled districts would get the lion’s share. Mr GISBORNE would prefer to see the power of the distribution of the money left to the discretion of the Governor, to which Mr Rolleston had no objection. Mr Kelly thought a good deal should be left to the road boards. The Superintendent and the board might first agree to a scheme, and then appeal to the Governor. It was nothing but right that the boards should have some voice in the distribution of the money. They could make representations to the Governor and he in consultation with his Ministers should show some reason why the alteration should not be made That was his experience of Provincial Governments. Mr Gisbobne said the object of the Government was to give the money to the outlying districts where there were struggling farmers, and it was only just that they should get a larger portion of the funds to be distributed by the colony than that it should be spent in the centres of population. Mr MacANDREW supported the amendment, and with it the views of the hon member for the Taieri (Mr Reid). Mr Carrington warmly supported the amendment by Mr Rolleston, which he thought was far more likely to suit his portion of the colony than the clause contained in the bill. Mr Shepherd denounced the system at present in vogue in Otago. The feeling of the goldfields populations was very intense against the system of distribution, the object of which seemed to be to spend as much money as possible in the settled districts to the utter neglect of the outdistriets. In his own district the Council had last year voted the palty sum of £SO, which probably they would never get at all. . He hoped the Government would see that those districts got their legitimate share of the money voted for the road boards. He would support the views of the Colonial Secretary, because if they did not get justice from the General Government he certainly did not expect any from the Provincial Government. Mr M'Lean thought the object of the House should be to aid set-

tlement by helping the out districts. There was no better instance of the advantage of that course than was to be found in the ease of the Wairarapa Yalley, where the settlers could now obtain their goods at the rate of £l3 per ton. If it had not been for the assistance rendered to those pioneers of colonisation the whole of that district would yet be in the hands of the stock proprietors. He would like to see class I omitted, which comprised those districts in the vicinity of towns and in comparatively populous place. Mr Reynolds altogether objected to the reasons brought forward by the hon member for Dunstan against the amendment. The Provincial Council of Ota<;o had made provision for the out-districts, which satisfied the whole population, the miners included. It was not the miners themselves who were dissatisfied ; it was chose people who followed the miners about, and were not miners at all themselves—who merely got their living by “ sponging” upon the miners. Mr Shepherd denied that he ever “ sponged” upon the miners. His presence in the House was a sufficient refutation to that. Mr Reynolds disclaimed any intention of applying the epithet to the hon member. Mr Shepherd did not care about the hon member’s disclaimer; he knew very well that the hori member alluded to him, but he could tell that, hon member that he had never dipped his hand into the public purse in an illegitimate way. He thought the hon member for Dunedin (Mr Reynolds) knew very well what he meant. Mr Reynolds would prefer that the hon member would be more explicit,. Mr Bunny thought the Government would be wise if they would withdraw the new clauses brought down by them. Mr Swanson was plad that such a discussion had taken place. It showed that the provinces were the best persons to manage the matters proposed to be dealt with by the bill. They had experience of that in the province of Auckland, where they were making railways at the present time. Assertions had been made in the House that the Provincial Government of Auckland had not dealt wisely with the natives in the North. What was their experience. They found that the natives were willing to give their land for nothing for the making of the railway, and in what other locality had they seen that done either to the General or Provincial Governments. He thought that disposed of a great deal of the arguments of the member for the Bay of Islands with reference to the mismanagement of the natives by the Provincial Government of Auckland. Mr Bathgate opposed the classification proposed by the Government clauses. Mr O'Conor said it seemed to himthabthe Superintendents and their friends were arrayed against the outlying districts, and said in effect, “Arrange the matter how you like, but let us have the control of the money.” He agreed with the Defence Minister that clause 1 should be omitted. Mr Creighton would support the Government proposals on the whole; they were equitable as they stood, but if clause 1 were omitted, he should oppose the bill. He agreed with Mr Swanson that the debate had demonstrated the fact that the House was not a fit place to discuss what the member for the Hutt had aptly called the parish business of the country. Mr Shephard spoke to dispose of what had fallen from Mr 0 Conor. Mr Calder spoke against the policy of borrowing £IOO,OOO for the purpose of assisting road boards. Mr Thomson did not approve of borrowing, but he thought the proposal the best that could have been adopted under the circumstances. Mr Murray supported the Government resolutions. Mr White objected to the classification of the districts. The system of last year worked well with one exception. He "particularly wished hon members to understand that all the complaints which they heard from the mining districts of the West Coast did not come from Westland. All the growling and howling came from the Nelson west coast goldfields. Mr Peacock objected to the proposals as a whole. While they were talking about railways for the benefit of the colony it was a very injudicious course to pursue to squander the loan in the manner proposed. Mr M‘Leod thought the proposal one of the best means of spending the money for the benefit of the colony. The population to the north of Auckland had only got £6OO from the Provincial Government as their share of the amount of £12,400 voted by the General Government last year. With regard to the Kaipara railway, the negoiiations with the natives were conducted by himself and a General Government agent seven years ago, and a great deal of the success ol the negotiations with the natives was also due to the chief Paul Te Hira. He knew of no negotiations entered into by the Provincial Government with the natives that ever ended well; every negotiation that had produced any good effect, had been conducted by the General Government. On the motion that the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the question, a division was called for, which resulted as follows : —Ayes, 36 ; Noes, 22. The amendment of Mr Rolleston was therefore negatived. The following addition was then made in the 12th clause: —“Provided that in outlying districts outside Class 1., or in less populous places, and such districts shall be entitled t,o twice as much as districts in Class 1., and to half as much as districts in Class 111. (3.) Class 111. shall comprise outlying districts in which it may be difficult or inconvenient, to constitute road boards voluntary contributions shall be deemed equivalent to money raised from rates.” Clause 13 was then pro posed : —“ For the purposes of such division each province shall be divided by the Superintendent thereof into districts, viz. :—l. Class I. shall comprise districts in the vicinity of towns and in comparatively populous places, and such districts shall be entitled to one-half as much as in districts in Class 11. and onefourth as much as districts in Class 111. 2. Class 11. shall comprise outlying districts

in which the population is sparse and scattered and such districts shall be entitled to twice as much as districts in Class 11., and to four times as much as districts in Class 1.” Mr Harrison proposed the addition of the following proviso immediately before Class I•“ Provided that in the four electoral districts of the Buller, Grey Yalley, Hokitika, and Totara, there shall be set apart in each such electoral district such proportion of the moneys to be appropriated by the act to be distributed among the road boards in the proportion such electoral district bears to the population of the colony, such proportion to be apportioned among the existing road boards and boards hereafter to be established within the said electoral districts, in such a manner as the Government may direct.” The amendment was negatived on division. Mr Farnall proposed the omission of Class 1. Mr Creighton opposed and Captain M'Pherson supported it. Mr White opposed the omission. The striking out of the class would be the means of depriving three of the four road boards of Westland of any share of the grant under the bill. Mr Swanson also opposed the striking out of the class. The motion for the omission was negatived. Captain M‘Pherson proposed the addition to the clause of the following proviso “ Provided that no road board in any populous suburban district be included in any one of the above classes.”. The amendment was negatived. Clause 14 was proposed:” “ Selfrating shall be an essential condition to any contribution from this fund, and no money shall be paid thereout until highway or road rates have been levied and paid, or voluntary contributions raised. Mr Reeyes proposed the following proviso:—“Provided that the conditions prescribed in* the foregoing sections may during the year ending 30f,h June, 1872, be waived by the Governor on it being proved to his satisfaction that special circumstances renders such a course advisable in any particular case or cases.” Mr Gisborne was willing to accept the amendment, which was carried. Clause 19 was then proposed —“Onetenth of th 6 sum allotted to each province shall be held in reserve for districts in which road boards are not established at the time of the division amongst the several road boards, but in which such boards may be established before the Ist, day of July following, and shall be available for such last mentioned boards on the same terms and in the same manner as for boards already established in districts of the third clas9 ” An addition was proposed by Mr Vogel, and carried —“ Provided that with respect to the province of Nelson, there shall be held in reserve for the present financial year 3-llths of the sum allotted for distribution among road boards that may hereafter be established, in such portion of the south-west portion of the province of Nelson as is south of the northern boundary of the electoral district of the Buller.” Clause 28 was then proposed with amendments: — “ Notwithstanding anything herein contained it shall be lawful for the Minister of Public Works, if he think fit, on the application of the Superintendent of any province to expend any sum not exceeding one half of the money to be allotted to such province for the year ending the 30th of June, 1872, under section II of this Act, in payment of or in repayment to such province of the cost of permanent public works in such province. Provided, however, that except in the County of Westland such works shall have been authorised by any act of the Superintendent and Provincial Council of the province now in force.” Captain M'Pherson moved the striking out of the clause on the ground that some of the districts in the province of Auckland would lose £12,000 or £13,000 by its insertion. The clause as amended was carried on a division, the numbers being—Ayes, 29 ; noes, 10. Mr O’Neill proposed the insertion of a new clause : —“ That out of the sum proposed to be allotted to the province of Auckland, l-sth be set apart and distributed in the Thames and Coromandel districts in proportion to the population of the respective districts.” The clause was negatived. The bill was then reported, and the amendments ordered to be considered next sitting day. THIRD READING. The Regulation of Elections Bill was read a third time. The House adjourned at a quarter past three.

Wednesday, November 3. PETITIONS. Mr SWANSON presented a petition, but his statement in connection with it was delivered in too low a tone to be heard. Mr MACANDREW presented a petition from Simon Saunders claiming compensation for damage done to his vessel, the Huon Belle, caused by the negligence of the Government in leaving the wreck of - the steamer Gundagai in the way of the navigation of the Patea river. PETITIONS COMMITTEE. The report of the Petitions Committee on the petition of 1,105 residents of Canterbury and 720 workmen of Wellington was brought up. It stated that as the subject had been considered by the House, the Committee did not deem it within its duty to intferere in the matter. RAILWAY FROM TOKOMAIRIRO TO LAWRENCE. MrJ.C. BROWN asked the Minister for Public Works if the plans and estimates of a recent survey of the proposed line of railway from 'Tokomairiro to Lawrence were completed ? Also, whether the Government intend to recommend to the Assembly the construction of said line during the present financial year ?

Mr GISBORNE said the plans were completed, and had been laid on the table. The line contracted for by the Government between the two places named would be a branch line, and wouldjjcome under the pro-

visions of the Public Works and Immigrat lou Act. PENSIONER SETTLEMENTS. Mr, O’RORKE asked the Minister for Public Works whether it was the intention of the Government, in carrying out their schemes of colonisation, to endeavor to revive some such plan of founding Pensioner Settlements as was established so beneficially in the province of Auckland by Governor Sir George Grey during his first administration ? The hon member said he thought the Defence Minister was thoroughly conversant with the success of the settlements established by Sir Geo. Grey. When he brought the matter befure the House last session he was told that the same class could not be obtained from home, but he happened to have got hold of a copy of the estimates presented to the Imperial Parliament of last year, and he saw there that £IO,OOO were voted to keep up a number of pensioners in the settlement at Western Australia. He thought if it were possible to do so that it would be highly advisable to bring them to this colony. Mr GISBORNE thought the hon member must be well aware that the benefit which the colony or the province derived from the location of the pensioners in the country arose from the fact that the Imperial Government bore all the expenses of the settlement of those pensioners itPthe colony, and he did not think it likely that that pleasant feature of the system would be renewed. There was no doubt that those pensioners alluded to were sent to Western Australia because it was a convict settlement,and there was a necessity there for the presence of the pensioners—men who were accustomed to the use of arms. If we introduced pensioners to this colony again we should have,to pay the whole of the expenses, because they might be pretty certain that the Imperial Government would pay nothing. It would cost something like £BOOO to build houses for them and maintain them, so that the Government did not see its way to introduce any more as desired by the hon member. Mr O’RORKE gave notice of his intention to move that it is desirable to introduce into this co’ony persons used to the use of arms. NELSON AND FOX HILL RAILWAY. Mr CURTIS asked the Minister for Public Works upon what basis the estimate of the working expenses of the several proposed lines of railway had been made; and how it is that the working expenses of the Nelson and Fox Hill line, of twenty miles only, are estimated at £7,000, or £350 per mile, while those of the Invercargill and Mataura line, of forty miles, are estimated at only £6,000, or £l5O per mile ? Mr Gisborne said tha basis on which the calculation was made with respect to each line was the number of persons likely to be employed on it, and the management and working of it; the quantity of coal and oil likely to be consumed, and the necessary stores and repairs required, In the case of the Nelson and Fox Hill line, he had been informed that a managing and working staff would be required, while in the case of the Invercargill and Mataura line there were departments of that kind already in operation, so that it was only necessary to calculate what would be the requisite expenditure for material, because the work in connection with the line would be greatly facilitated by the line from the Bluff to Invercargill, and that from Invercargill to Winton. There was also a repairing establishment, and they would only he required to bear a share of the expense in that direction. He was informed that the Nelson and Fox Hill railway would be more costly as regarded stations than the Invercargill and Mataura. The difference in the comparative cost of the work on two lines of railway of different length, according to the number of miles, was quite undeniable, because in the case of a very short line of railway there must be a complete working and managing staff just the same as in the case of a long line, and a short line would thus show a higher rate of cost per mile than a long one. For instance, if the Nelson and Fox Hill line were ten miles longer of course the expenditure on that line would be only half as much again for the increased portion as for a similar length of the original distance. There was no trustworthy way of stating why it was that the expenses of the one were so much greater than the other. He had shown that in the case of the Invercargill and Mataura line there were special circumstances which would reduce the expenses in comparison with that from Nelson to Fox Hill. SUPREME COURT, LAWRENCE.

Mr J. C. BROWN asked the Colonial Secretary if the Government are prepared to carry out the recommendation of the Provincial Government of Otago, that half-yearly sittings of the Supreme Court should be held at Lawrence, in accordance with the report of Judge Chapman? Mr GISBORNE said the Government were quite willing to endeavor to arrange the matter, but the question of expense had intervened. The Judge had reported that certain alterations would be neoessary in the courthouse and the gaol, which, according to the estimate of the Provincial Govei’nment would amount to £9OOO. He would endeavour to arrange that a court should be held at Lawrence without expense, and if that could be done he would be very glad that it should be so arranged. COST OF RETURNS. Mr REYNOLDS asked whether the Government would have any objection to have a statement prepared showing in detail the cost of returns called for this session, and, with the concurrence of Mr Speaker, to have such return inserted in the Appendix of the Journals of the House ? And whether the Government will have any objection to have a return prepared showing the expenditure incurred by each select committee appointed during the session, and, with the concurrence of Mr Speaker, to have the same inserted in the Appendix of the Journals of the House? His object was to show to hon members the

enormous cost of these returns so as to induce them in future sessions not to call for returns and papers which were very expensive and not very useful. It perhaps would convey a lesson if the cost were placed before hon members. He wished the Government would see ’■/he advisability of giving him a favorable e p ] y- , . . Mr GISBORNE said there was no objection ) the motion as far as the Government were -mcerned, although they had no power to der that it should appear in the journals of b House. With regard to the returns ordered tv were usually endorsed with the cost, tlugh there were some which did not incur ai additional expense. Special expenses we always marked. If the House had no objtion to the course proposed, the Governme bad none, but he would suggest' to the honmember that he should place a motion on 0 paper in reference.to the subject. TAURANGA DISTRICT. MW. KELLY moved that it be a recommemtion to the Government to endeavor, durin the recess, to connect the Tauranga distri, in the province of Auckland, with the UppeWaikato, by means of a line of road from dPapa to Cambridge ; the said road to be conducted out of the vote of £400,000 for roads aj works in the North Island. Agree to. RE COMFORT OF THE HOTTSE. Mr E.IICHARDSON moved that in the opinion cthis House, it is desirable that the Colonial .rchitect be instructed during the recess to gm his most careful attention to the improvemtt of the ventliation of this House, and all therooms and offices connected with it. He saiihe was aware that great improvements had been effected in the general arrangement of the House, but the ventila tion waß ver;bad. He could not understand what reasonthere was to go to England for ventilating aparatus, when all that was requisite could kve been done in the colony. Mr T. KEjLY said if the object of the motion wasto improve the ventilation of the House, ana improvement of the whole buildings, he wold have no objection to it. The state of som of the committee rooms was simply detesuble. In the room in which the Public Petitions Committee sat the air was deferable. Smells of burnt bones, burnt fat, Coked meat, and fried onions was absolutelymbearable, and simply poisonous. The ventilation and general arrangements of the Rouse itself, any old member must admit, wt-e greatly improved. Mr GISBORNE, signsof opposition having arisen, said he understood he motion merely to mean that the ventilation should be improved, but that no great eioense should be gone to. If hon members whv objected to the motion had been in the House -i few sessions ago they would admit that the improvement was very great. If the motion were passed, aud the matter were left to the Government, they would pay every attention to the wishes of the House.

Mr THOMSON thought the hon member must have forgotten the motion passed a few days ago by the House, that the next session should be held at Dunedin, and if it we:e to be bo there would be no use in spending more money in the improvement of the present building. Mr SHEPHERD also thought the Government had overlooked the fact that a resolution had been passed by 40 to 20 with the object named by Mr Thomson.

Mr FOX: The G-overnmenfc have not forgotten the fact at all; neither have they forgotten a resolution come to by the other branch of the Legislature. What was to be done in their case ? Mr SHEPHERD : The Premier wishes to know what the Upper House is going to do. Why, I presume, Sir, they will have to meet wherever they’re called. This is the most important branch of the Legislative of the country, and surely the Government are not going to set aside the opinion of the House. Mr FOX: The hon member is perfectly correct; the Governor can call the House together at any place ho thinks proper. But the Government have to consider the opinions of both Houses. The position of the Government is now one of difficulty. They have now to decide whether it would be best to hold the next session here or at Dunedin, and if it were decided to hold it in Wellington they would take every menus to purify the House, so as to make it more fit to accommodate members than it was this year. Mr SWANSON thought if there was any deference to be paid to either body it should be paid to the House of Representatives, which was the most important body, whether socially or otherwise. At anyrate the members of the House were the reflex of the people. The adjournment of the debate was then proposed, and on a division was rejected, the numbers being:—Ayes, 21; noes, 27. The fate of the original motion was left in a somewhat uncertain state, the Speaker mention ing that ns- no opposition had been offered it ojuld proceed no further, having been taken Out of its order as an unopposed motion. PAYMENTS TO PROVINCES BILL. On the motion for the consideration of the report of the committee on this bill, Mr Murray proposed the re-committal of the bill for the purpose of striking out clause 28, which was negatived The bill was read a third time. THIRD READINGS. The Payments to Provinces Bill, the Sharebrokers Bill, the Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill, and the Native Districts Road Boards Bill were read a third time and passed. WAYS AND MEANS. The House then went into committee for the purpose of further considering the stamp duties. The duties on indentures of apprenticeship, appointments in execut ion of a power over any property, appointment of trustees, awards in cases of disputes, certificates of title issued

under the Land Transfer Act, certificates of incorporation, exemplification of letters patent under the seal of the United Kingdom, memorandum of transfer under schedules D and E of the Land Transfer Act, were agreed to. The duty on memoranda of encumbrance for securing a sum of money in schedule G of the Land Transfer Act, and every transfer or discharge of any such encumbrance elicited a long discussion, as also did the duty on mortgages and bills of sale. On division the duties were thrown out, those voting for their retention were—Messrs E. Richardson, M‘Leod, Williamson, Bathgate, Bryce, Macandrew, Harrison, Reeves, Stewart, D. M‘Lean, Fox, Vogel, Shepherd, T. Kelly, W. Kelly, Katene, and Creighton. The “ Noes” numbered 35, and consequently they were rejected. The taxing of persons becoming notaries public was rejected on the motion of Mr Gillies, who pointed out that there was no power in the colony to issue the faculty license. The taxes on deeds of settlement, affidavits, partition, power of attorney, release, renunciation, or disclaimer, appraisements, and notarial acts were passed. The next item was, Receipt given for or upon payment of money amounting to £2 or upwards, Id. The Colonial Treasurer proposed (for the purpose of making up the deficiency created by the striking out of the duty on mortgages and bills of sale, which he estimated at £5000) that the amount should be increased to 2d. He estimated that the stamp on receipts and cheques at this rate would produce £SOOO or £6OOO. He was afraid also that he would have, in accordance with an intimation previously given, to ask the House to assent to a tax on malt and hops. Many members pointed out that the imposition of a tax on payments of £2 would be a great hardship both to employers and employed. Every workman receiving wages of £2 and over would have to give a receipt for it. It would create endless annoyance and confusion. Mr E. Richardson, who had been a large employer of labor, said he had never given a receipt for wages, aud he would like to know definitely whether it would be imperative that a receipt should be given. The Colonial Treasurer said that most people preferred to take a receipt for money paid, but beyond that the answer was vague. Mr Reid proposed that the amount to be taxed should be raised to £5. On this a division was called for, which resulted as follows : —Ayes, 32; noes, 25. The tax on receipts for £2 was therefore retained, Another proposal, that the 2d stamp should be placed on drafts, or orders, including cheques on banks for payment of any sum of money to be paid to bearer or order, or on demand, was also carried on a division, the numbers being: Ayes, 40; noes, 14. Mr Creighton then proposed the following exemption :—“ Receipts for all sums under £5 paid as wages to workmen or servants.” Mr G. M'Lean opposed the amendment. Mr O’Conor hoped the amendment would be pressed. It would be a. great hardship on employers, who would either have to put the receipt on all wages paid or find some means to evade the tax, and that would cause great annoyance. Mr Swanson looked upon the tax as one that would come right home on the working man. Those who could protect their own pockets had been voting to do so during the discussion, and it was Only right that someone should protect the working man, and he should vote for this amendment for that reason. The tax was simply a tax on poverty. Mr Bathgate proposed the exemption of savings bank cheques. The duties on cereals were next discussed. Mr Vogel said the duties were absolutely required for revenue purposes, and also to protect the fiscal policy of the country from the duties imposed by the neighboring colonies. The hon member read the statistics of the other colonies bearing on the duties proposed to be increased. Some returns prepared by Mr Seed, Collector of Customs, were also read for the object of proving that the price of flour and wheat in New Zealand had, since the imposition of existing duties, decreased instead of increased, as might have been supposed would have been the case, This statement met with great laughter. The duties now proposed by the Government, to come into force from the 20th November instant, were :—Grain and pulse of every kind not otherwise enumerated, the lOOlbs, 9d ; grain and pulse of every kind not otherwise enumerated, when ground or in any way prepared or manufactured, the lOOlbs, Is; rice, the cwt, 3s; timber—sawn, the 100 feet superficial, 2s; shingles and laths, the 1000, 2s; palings, the 100, 2s ; rails, the 100, 4s; posts, the 100, Bs. Mr George M'Lban supported the charges. Mr Webster strongly opposed the imposition of the charges on the whole of the items, his opinion being that free trade was the best kind of trade in such articles. Mr Reid said if proposals were made to afford protection to these branches of trade he should oppose them, but if for revenue purposes he would suppolt them. However, he was inclined to think they were being imposed for a protective purpose, and he should support them. If some of the provinces produced a surplus of grain, their object should be to open communication to enable them to compete with the other colonies. The West Coast, for instance, was one of the places where a large amount of the surplus grain of the colony might be disposed of. Mr Lightband, although representing a province which did not grow sufficient grain for its own consumption, would support the duties as a means of stimulating the growth of grain in the colony. Mr Creighton said this was the third occasion on which the present Government had attempted, by class legislation, to increase the cost of living of those who were the real workers and producers of the colony. It came vei'y badly from the Colonial Treasurer to tell them that he hoped they were ixot going to hash up old free trade arguments from books for the sake of opposing the duties; Were they to burn their books, to disregard

the experience of all other countries, and to play at blind man’s buff in matters of the kind as was being done by the occupants of the ministerial benches. He could tell the House that he had received a letter from the largest miller in New Zealand, asking him to oppose these duties in every uossible way ; and that from a man who would bo a large gainer. They were told that the whole of the province was in favor of the duties, but what was the fact. At his election, where the whole weight of the Government was thrown into the scale against him, he had to face what was supposed to be a most formidable programme—- “ Kerr, and Protection.” He was elected by a large majority against that, and yet they were told in that House that Auckland was in favor of these duties. It was absolutely necessary that they should have Adelaide wheat to mix with the Canterbury wheat. The climate of South Australia must convince hon members that flour from that colony would absorb more moisture, and that it was on that account much more valuable than New Zealand flour, and was it treasonable that they should pay more per ton for a commercially inferior article. The effect of protection in America had been to protect Hoe, the great machinist, out of the country ; it had protected their farmers from their lands, and had protected the United States mercantile marine off the face of the waters. Another objection to these duties was that they were partial in their operation. What the country should do, instead of imposing restrictions, would be to remove the embargoes at present existing. The only way to make New Zealand what they all desired she should be was to throw open her ports, and abolish light dues. He looked upon the taxes as impolitic, unnecessary, and unjust. Mr Reeves strongly supported the duties imposed. There were three great producing and revenue paying classes in the country —the miners, the agriculturists,and the woolgrowers.and he would put it to those who represented the woolgrowers and the miners that unless the agricultural population were enabled to clear a fair share of profit the amount of revenue contributed by them must inevitably fall off and be obtained from one or other of the other two producing classes of the community ; so that it would be to their advantage in the long run that the farmer should obtain the advantage to be derived from the imposition of the duties. A large grain grower of South Australia, who took a great interest in the proceedings of the New Zealand Parliament, had, in correspondence with him, staled that free trade was a very fine thing for some countries, but he was at a loss to understand how that House should so far forget its own interest as to attempt to carry out such a hobby, and if they did affirm such a principle they would be the laughing-stock of the whole colonies. Many depreciatory remarks had been made about the quality of New Zealand wheat, but he thought the dealers of the London market should know something of the quality of the article, and according to the latest prices ruling there, Canterbury wheat was only 2s a quarter less than Adelaide wheat, whioh is recognised in that market as inferior to none in the known world; and more recently still, in a letter to the representative of the Messrs Matheson, New Zealand wheat had fetched 2s a quarter more than Adelaide on account of its superior flouring qualities. It was well known that a great deal of flour was imported from Adelaide into New Zealand, and a good deal of agricultural produce was taken away from New Zealand to Australia in the ships of other colonies. Why should they not save to this colony that one item of shipping charges, which was paid by the producers of this colony only to benefit the shipowners of the other colonies. Mr Gillies opposed the duties on the ground that they taxed the food of the masses for the benefit of the few—the producers. Mr Bathgate supported the duties on both gi’ounds; he supported them because they went in the direction of affording protection, and because they would increase the revenue. He would like, however, to see their legislation more consistent. They had adopted fi’ee trade in every other direction, and what had free trade done for England ; there they had their millionaires, and at the same time there were 100,000 human beings dying of starvation. He saw no more reason why they should go to California or Adelaide for their wheat than that they should introduce cabinet makers from England, and, at the same time, import foreign furniture. He would support the duties cordially, as the introduction of the thin end of the wedge, which he hoped would be driven home more firmly session after session. Mr J. E. Brown supported the duties. He effectively combated the arguments of Mr Creighton with refei’ence to the results of protection in America. If there was a country in the world to which he could point his finger as as a result of the success of protection it was to America. Mr Williamson supported the pi’oposals of the Colonial Treasurer, which would do good to the agricultural community around Auckland, and do good to the working population of Auckland itself. It was high time they discarded those old stale notions of free trade. Mr J. E. Brown, in explanation of circumstances of dispute between himself and Mr Creighton, said a friend in America had written to him stating that they could not hold out any hope that America was likely to grant any remission of the duty on wool. Mr Stewart supported the duties because he was in favor both as a means of protection and of raising revenue. He spoke for a district containing an area of 600 square miles, nearly the whole of which was under cultivation, and he thought the farmers of such a district were entitled to some protection. The question for them to consider was, not that the farmer in this country should be protected at the expense of other farmers, but that they should not help the legislatures

of other countries to protect tho fanners of those countries against the farmers of this. The poor man element had been introduced into the debate, and he had a word to say on that head himself, and that was this, that this poor man who was going to lose Is 6d per year would find himself in this predicament: if the farmers were crashed out they would have to turn their attention to some other field, either growing meat or wool, and they would not then circulate the same amount of money; and, secondly, there would not be the same number of men employed, and the poor man who complains that he is going to be taxed would find that he had not the money to pay a tax at all. Mr Johnson said the statistics read to the House by Mr Creighton against the duties only convinced him that they were employing a good deal of labor outside the colony. The presence of the labor within the colony, he considered, gave us more than a compensating advantage. He heartily supported the duties, because he considered it a capital investment. Mr Shephard also supported the duties. Mr White, as representing a constituency on whom the tax on flour would press very heavily, opposed the imposition of the duties. He thought it more to their interest to support industries within themselves than to endeavor, by artificial means, to support what might be called a foreign industry. He looked upou the tax as one to benefit a particular class at the expense of the mining industry. He did not intend to follow the arguments adduced. He merely wished to say that they were in a wrong direction, and he would enter his protest against it. Mr Hunter did not believe that protection would make any 1 country great, but he supported the duties on the ground that it would raise revenue. A great deal had been said about America as a great protective country. His reading proved to him that both America and France were rapidly tending towards free trade, and there was this iight in which the policy of America should be looked at. If she had made such progress under what he called a false policy, what would have been her position under another policy. He confessed he was an ardent free trader, because he looked upon protection as a pernicious principle. He would support the duties for revenue purposes. Mr Meryyn could nob support the duties as a whole. While he was in favor of the duty on rice, he could not vote for the duty on flour. Mr M'Gillivray pointed out that while many members had quoted the statistics of the flour and grain imported, none had noticed that the amount exported exceeded the imports. That was an important fact, and the matter resolved itself into this : can tho colony grow sufficient for its own consumption. He thought the answer would be that it could, and for that reason he objected to the duties ; because those provinces which produced more than they could consume should push for markets elsewhere. The colonial article, he was convinced, was equal to any that could be produced elsewhere, and he thought the imposition of the duty would be an admission that the colonial wheat was an inferior article. Mr Tribe, as a goldfields member, could not let the question go to the vote without making a few remarks, and he merely wished to say that he would vote for the imposition of the duties. He considered the amount proposed would be so inappreciable, about the eighth of a penny on every four pound loaf, that no class of the community could reasonably object. Mr PEACOCK supported the duties merely for the purpose of raising revenue. He saw that instead of injuring the poor man, it would benefit him in common with all classes of the community. Mr O’Conor objected to the vote on the ground that they were heaping taxes on the miners. The tax would not only raise the price of flour ; for every shilling additional on flour the miners would have to pay two more for the corn to feed their pack horses. He denied that the Canterbury flour was anything like equal to Adelaide flour. He could only say that if it was none of it of such a quality had reached the West Coast of late. If the farmers of the Canterbury proyiu"e did produce any good flour they kept it among themselves, for they sent to the diggings a quality of flour they would never force down the throats of the mining communities. Mr J. E. Brown denied that the Canterbury flour was made up in a slovenly way. He knew for a fact that a merchant of Canterbury had imported 300 tons of flour from Chili, which had been nearly all sent to the North Island as Canterbury flour, some of it being traced even to Victoria. Mr Thomson opposed the proposals. Mr Vogel having made a few remarks in reply, the first item —grain and pulse, 9d per bushel —was put, and a division called for, which resulted as follows: —Ayes, 30; noes, 14. Ayes— Murray, Bell, D. M‘Lean, J. E. Brown, Katene, Rolleston, Peacock, Stewart, W. Kelly, Johnson, Williamson, Gisborne, Bathgate, Macandrew, MTherson, G. B. Parker, Eitzkerbert, Taiaroa, Henderson, Earnall, Hunter, Lightband, Ormond, Karslake, Reeves, C. Parker, R. Richardson, McLeod, Vogel, Reynolds. Noes —Cantrell, Parata, Karaitiana, Creighton, Swanson, Bradshaw, J. C. Brown, Wnite, Andrew, Thomson, Reid, Munro, Gillies, Ingles. Mr Gillies could not help remarking upon the sudden change that had taken place in the views of several hon members. He felt convinced that no change had taken place in the opinions of the people of the colony, and he was sure that next year the House would be of a different opinion. The other items were then put, and divisions called for, which resulted in the same manner as on the first item. Mr Vogel proposed that the duty on rice should be altered from 38 per cwt. to £d per lb, which was carried. Mr Vogel then intimated that he would take the opinion of the committee on new duties on malt, hops, aud common soap. With regard to soap, in the other colonies the local article had superseded the use of imported soap, but

in this colony the manufacture was m a languishing condition. The duty on the articles would be—soap, 3s 6d per ewfc; malt,ls 6d per bushel; hops, 3d per lb. The duties on malt and hops were fair. The brewing interest had had protection for a long time o by the duty on imported ale, and it was not unfair now that the brewers should help forward the other industries of the colony. Malting should now become a most important industry in this country, because in Australia they eould not malt on account of the unfavorable climate. He hoped hon members would pass the resolutions now; those who objected to them would have another opportunity of speaking upon them. Pairs. For —Haughton, Brandon, G. M'Lean, Fox, Carrington, Joseph Shephard, Stud hoi me, R. Rhodes, E. Richardson, Bryce, M‘Glashan, Tribe. Against—G. Webster, Collins, E.W. Stafford, Clarke, O’Neill, Reader Wood, O’Conor, Mervyn, Curtis, T. Kelly, Kenny, Calder. The resolutions were then reported to the House, and ordered to be considered next sitting. MESSAGE PROM HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR.

The SPEAKER announced that he had received a message from His Excellency the Governor transmitting the Wellington "Debts Bill. Also, a bill recommending the carrying out of various public works and immigration schemes. The House adjourned at a quarter to three.

Thursday, November 2. The Speaker took the chair at half-past one o’clock. TE KOOTI. Mr GILLIES wished to put a question to the Government without notice. There were rumors abroad with reference to the movements of Te Kooti, and a telegram had been received in Wellington to the following effect: The Hauhaus report that Te Kooti has killed Captain Preece and five Arawas at Horohoro. He lost one man himself, and escaped to Tokangamutu.” He desired to know from the Native Minister whether there was any foundation for the rumor. Mr M S LEAN said he was glad the hon member had brought forward the matter contained in the telegram. He himself had received a communication with reference to the matter, and he could assure the hon member that the rumors stated by him were quite unreliable. The fact really was that Captain Preece, on the day on which he was alleged to have been killed, was three hundred miles from the place stated in the telegram read, so that it must be obvious to the hon member that the rumor was groundless. IAND BROKERS. Mr BATHGATE asked whether the Government would have any objection to have a return prepared forthwith, showing the names of the land brokers licensed in Dunedin ; the names of the sureties; and the amounts of bonds in each case ? Last year a very serious inroad was made on a branch of the legal profession, but the liberal minded members_ of that profession made no objection to the passing of the Land Transfer Act, although they believed that a year or two should have been allowed to elapse before the act came into operation. Since then the Government have thought proper to open up the practice to all and sundry, and even now the profession did not complain, although their business had been injured by that proceeding ; but they did ask that the rule permitting persons to practise under the act should be rigidly enforced. A telegram which he had received yesterday stated that a number of persons had been appointed brokers, and that their sureties were men of straw. It was in order to remove such rumors that he had put the question. The profession had no fear that with fair care, and the knowledge possessed by them, they would ensure to themselves the greater share of the transfer business; but they desired that other land brokers should he compelled to comply with the conditions of the act. Mr FOX said he'was glad the question had been asked, because it gave him an opportunity of denying statements which had been made that the appointments of land brokers should not extend to lay agents. The Government had not made any such promise. It was stated when the act was passing through the House that the Governnnmt was not inclined to press the appointment of brokers immediately. Later in the session the question was put in a pointed manner by the then member for the Selwyn, Mr Stevens, and by the Hon Mr Hall, who asked whether, if the public made any demonstration in favor of land brokers, the Government would be prepared to accede to the proposal, and he replied that they would most certainly do so if it were to the public interest to do so. Then the act was put into force, and for four or five months it appeared to have no effect at all, not a single deed being brought into the office. In Dunedin and Christchurch, where they expected a great amount of business to be transacted under the act, not a single one was registered, but immediately after numerous petitions and applications came in from large bodies of gentlemen owning property, asking that laymen should be appointed brokers. The Government then felt bound to carry out the wishes of those persons, and consequently land brokers were appointed wherever they could find the requisite security. The effect was magical. Applications for transfers under the act came pouring in in such numbers that the Registrar reported that the fees at Dunedin were paying the expenses of the working of the act, and at Christchurch they went pretty well towards it, and that he saw a good prospect of the fees paying the whole expenses of working the act in the different divisions of the colony. He thought that was evidence that the creation of these land brokers had proved a great success, and that the Government were fully justified in what they had done in giving to laymen the right to become brokers, the office having

conferred large public advantages and paid its own expenses. He thought it was rather in-, correct to say that the brokers had been appointed without finding security. In many cases the applications for appointment as brokers had been suspended simply because the forms could not be filled up in the regular way in the absence of the Registrar-General, so that the hon member would observe that no laxity was allowed. If be looked at the act he would see that the matter complained of was a very trivial one. It was merely stated that the broker should conform to therequirements of the act. He was really required to do nothing ; so that if the sureties were men of straw it would have no bad effect at all. MAORI DEEDS OF CESSION. TAIAROA asked the Native Minister whether the Government objected to lay upon the table copies of all deeds of cession by the Maori owners of land in the Middle and South Islands, to her Majesty the Queen or the New Zealand Company ? Mr M'LEAN said the deeds referred to in every instance had been published ; at least, those of the New Zealand Company were published in a book which contained a narrative of all deeds of the company, but he did not know that they had been translated into Maori. Several other deeds had been published, and the Government did not consider it necessary that those which have been already published should be published again, but if the hon member would mention any particular deed that he desired, if not published, the Government would have no objection to publish it. He might say that the reports of all deeds referring to the Middle Island have been compiled, and would be published in a • book which would be accessible to members after the publication was completed. It would show every record, and all information connected with the Middle Island which the hon member might require. Some of the deeds, referring to Canterbury and Otago, were already published in full in the Blue Books. Mr ROLLESTON : Those referring to Port Levy and Port Cooper are not there. Mr M‘LEAN was aware that some of them were not there, but the hon member could have any particular deed he desired. NATIVE BANDS. TAIROA asked the Native Minister, whether one reason for the refusal to produce the Deeds of Cession of Lands in the Middle Island is the fear, based upon the opinion of the Attorney-General, that the validity of some of those deeds might be effectually contested by the original Maori owners, if assisted by legal advice ? He said he supposed there was some fear on the part of the Government to produce the deeds. Mr M‘LEAN said there was no fear whatever on the part of the Government, but they objected to the publication of deeds the greater number of which had already been published. AN OLD GRIEVANCE. The SPEAKER announced that he had received a message from the Legislative Council requesting the attendance of the clerk of the House, for the purpose of being examined with reference to his “ stated” appointment as clerk of Parliament. Mr HAUGHTON declined to accept the message as anything else than disrespectful to the House. It referred to the “ stated” appointment of the clerk of Parliament, an appointment which had been made by another authority which could not be interfered with. Mr FOX said there was nothing disrespectful in the word objected to. In his interpretation it did not at all dispute the appointment ; it rather confirmed it. The word meant fixed and final, so that he saw nothing disrespectful in it. The SPEAKER said he saw nothing objectionable in the message. The appointment had been made under an authority which could not he interfered with, and he saw no reason why they should not assent to the request. The matter had not yet arrived at a point of dispute ; when it did arrive at such a stage the House would no doubt be quite prepared to enter into any disputed point. The motion was then agreed to. • ‘WELLINGTON RECLAIMED LAND BILL.

The SPEAKER announced that he had received a message from the Legislative Council, stating that they declined to agree to the free conference on this bill without farther notice.

Mr BUNNY proposed that a free conference should be held, and that Messrs Hunter, Fitzberbert, and himself, should be appointed managers. Motion agreed to. VALIDATING ACT.

MV GISBORNE moved for leave to introduce a bill intituled an Act to continue in operation certain provisions of an act of the General Assembly, validating certain Provincial acts and ordinances. Agreed to. REPRESENTATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was committed. Its object is to amend the electoral boundaries, and several members objecting to the boundaries, as defined, the Chairman reported progress, progress in committee being impossible until further explanations were given. WAYS AND MEANS. The resolutions passed yesterday in committee of Ways and Means were reported to the House and agreed to. Whereupon A BILL TO AMEND THE TARIFF, Based on the resolutions, was read a first time, and ordered to be read a Becond time to-morrow. . MESSAGES FROM HIS EXCELLENCY. The House went into committee to consider Messages Nos. 7 and 8 from his Excellency the Governor. Mr VOGEL explained that Message No. 8 contained clauses for introduction into the Public Works Bill, recommending the making of branch lines and coal lines. He moved a that this committee recommends that leave be given to introduce such clauses into the Public Works Bill, 1871, as are referred to in the Message under consideration.” A difficulty having arisen as to the consti*

tutional forms to be followed on the introduction of appropriation clauses, progress was reported. Mr YOGEL then proposed that the committee should give leave to introduce the bill contained in Message No 7 —the Wellington Debts Bill.

Mr GILLIES objected. The Government had not circulated the bill, and he should insist that it be read to the House. [The bill was accordingly read by the Clerk of Committees.] Mr G. M‘LEAN thought it was not right that they should have been asked to pass the first reading of a bill of the kind without having it circulated. Now that it had been read he saw that the bill was exactly the same bill which had been brought down to the House before. This was the third form in which it had appeared before them, and he considered the hon member who had charge of the bill deserved great credit for his ingenuity in* endeavoring to convince the House that white was black and that black was white. He considered it was an attempt to introduce a wretched system of finance. The Province of Wellington was now ripe for being taken over, and it was the duty of the Government, instead of tugging away at this bill, to settle all its difficulties by assuming the management of its affairs. Mr FITZHERBERT said he believed the opinions of the hon member to have been offered in a genuine spirit, with a half moral half political sentiment, but he was yet very young in a knowledge of the proceedings of the House. In the language applied to little boys, he had a good deal more plum pudding to eat; but the opposition of Mr Gillies and his feeble lieutenant, Mr Rolleston, was of quite another character. Those gentlemen had offered opposition of the highest kind of concentrated powers of faction; an Opposition which had excited in his mind the most supreme contempt. The member for Auckland City West had come out in the character which truly belonged to him, that of a venomous, factious opponent. Those were the kind of members who called themselves the Opposition—a name which they had degraded in the eyes of the House this session. They complained of the policy of the Govei-nment and wished to substitute their own, and a precious policy that was. Whatever shortcomings the Government had, the shortcomings of the Opposition were ten times worse. illusions having been made to the Savings Bank funds, Mr Fitzberbert in explanation stated that the province had never misappropriated one farthing of those trust funds. They had acted strictly in accordance with law iu taking those funds and issuing debentures of the province of Wellington instead. He had distinctly told the House that the province wished to be relieved of the care of these funds, not because there had been any misuse, but because he wished to be relieved of the chance of misuse.

Mr GILLIES knew by long experience what a capital actor the member for the Hutt was, and how much sincerity was to be attached to his vehemence. He had referred to the unusual course adopted by insisting that the bill should be read to the House, but had he said anything of the unconstitutional course of attempting to force an important bill of this kind through the House without any attempt to make the House aware of its contents. Members could not fail to observe the number of forms in which it had been presented to the House, but in whatever Protean shape it was presented, it was their duty to prevent the spoliation of the colony. They should endeavor to put a stop to any proceedings by which it was sought to render the colony liable for the debts of the province of Wellington. All the bitter invective of the member for the Hutt, which ho had directed at the Opposition, fell very tamely. If he had been a member of that Opposition of which he had spoken in such contemptible terms, they might have been open to the imputations heaped upon them, but the absence of the hon member from their ranks entirely absolved them from such stigmas. Time would tell whether the opinions and the actions of the Opposition were approved. He cared not for the discourteous remarks of thehonmember. Their aim hadbeen and still was to uphold the financial honor of the colony, and the people would yet be called upon to say whether they approved of the course followed by them. If their opposition to the financial ruin of the colony degi’aded them, of course they were degraded ; but that was a question which the people of the colony had yet to answer. If the Opposition were wrong, they were honestly and sincerely wrong, because their action was dictated by the belief that the measures being passed by the Government tended to the ruin of the colony, and not for its good. The resolution was then, as a matter of urgency, read a first and second time, and leave given to introduce THE WELLINGTON DEBTS BILL, Which was read a first time. The House then went to the consideration of THE RAILWAYS BILL. Mr GISBORNE went into a similar explanation to that given by Mr Yogel a day or two ago, to the effect that it would be better not to take a general discussion, but that the proposals for the construction of each railway should be discussed separately in committee. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. CIVIL SERVICE ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was committed. The explanation and discussion of the pensions clauses, and the amendments proposed, occupied a considerable portion of the afternoon, but the debateable matter was of no interest to the general public. The bill was then reported to the House and read a third time. OTAGO EDUCATION RESERVES GRANTS BILL. The bill provides for the reservation of 1,700,000 acres of land for educational purposes. Much opposition was offered by Mr

Webster and Mr Gillies, who considered th: as it was contemplated that the General Gj

vernment should take over and administer tj lands of the colony for the purpose of sett/ ment, and for the carrying out of the grl public works scheme, it was unadvisable t) such enormous reserves should be alienaf. although Mr Gillies quite recognised that was the game of the provinces to do General Government to as great an extei* B possible in view of their lands being baj*d over. This they were doing to the» x * tent of thirty-four acres for every woman, and child in the province. Mr Haughton opposed the reservatio °£ such a quantity of land for the purpose (supporting denominational education. (O/oh.) He repeated that it was to support deijunationalism of the very narrowest kind, *d he should oppose the bill if he stood alonffi the floor of the House. A motion to . repp progress at this stage was lost by a mojoif of 27 to 20. Mr Gillies took the opport»ity of expressing his surprise at the actio of the Government in proceeding with the iu the face of a distinct assurance on their jrt that if there was any opposition to thejjl they would not go on with it, and carrying out that promise they were now feing the measure in the face of very considers/e opposition. Mr G. B. Parker said the diffhlty arose purelv from the circumstance that /e Government had consented to become thcatspaw of a provincial party. He saw noustification for their taking up a measure w'ch should have been inti'oduced by no othe than a private member. Mr Gisborne what ho was to do. He had voted for porting progress, and was blamed by those epporting the bill, and a majority of the Hou* having decided that they should go on, h was blamed by the other side for doing so. Mr STAFFORD and Mr Bell said the Parliatpntary course Which should be pursued by tb Government was, a promise having been iifwen that it should be fulfilled, whether amajority of the House differed from them or pt; they should lead the House, not be led by. s - Mr Shepherd proposed the inbroduetior of a clause to the effect that all lands mentioned in the schedule shall be subject to the goldfield s laws in force within the <ffony. The.clause was cairied. The bill waetlien reported to the House, and on the moth* for the third reading, Mr Haughton an/ Mr G. B. Parker protested against the course of forcing a bill through gainst the rules of the House, which proved that amendments having been made, tb* third reading could not be taken on the sanr day. He knew several members wbo wer' absent who intended to oppose the bill strongly. The Speaker said it was usualat the end of the session that a bill should behead a third time on the representation of a member of the Government that it was a natter of urgency. The bill was then read a tlh’d time and passed.

g/N FRANCISCO SERVICE. Mr YOGEL announced that he thought at that late hour (eleven o’clock) lie would be consulting the wishes of members if he were to propo/e the postponement of the debate on the San Francisco contract, and make it the first oraer for half-past seven o’clock on the following evening. He did not think it likely, if they were to enter on the discussion that evening, that they would arrive at any result. By taling it at half-past seven on the following evening they could have a full discussion with a probability of arriving at a decision. This course was acquiesced in by the House, and the SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES Were gone into, the first item on which any discussion arose being the vote of £SOO for the Inspector of Stores. Mr Gillies could not understand why, even if they must have a storekeeper, they should pay him £SOO a year ; a “ storekeeper ” was not usually paid so high salary. But what necessity was there for a storekeeper at all ? He was down as storekeeper under the public works head. These public works, he supposed, were to be carried on in different parts of the colony, and was this officer going to act as storekeeper in every portion of the colony. Mr GISBORNE said he was not going to keep the stores ; he was going to inspect in the different parts of the colony. The Government knew that thousands of pounds worth of stores had been wasted for want of inspection Formerly he was only defence storekeeper, but now he did the double duty of attending also to the public works stores. Mr Gillies pointed out that private firms, having many branches throughout the colony, did not require inspectors to go round looking after their property; those on the spot were supposed to be capable of doing that. Mr Hunter said it was usual, in the case of banks, for instance, to have inspectors. Mr D. M‘Lean and Captain MTherson knew from personal knowledge that the storekeeper had saved thousands of pounds by his supervision. Mr Swanson thought the fact of this gentleman, whoever he was, saving thousands of pounds, was a fine commentary on the conduct of those other gentlemen of the civil service who, they had been told that night,, were in the habit of sacrificing themselves for the benefit of the country. From the statements made, it appeared that they had been sacrificing the interests of the country to the best of their ability. Then, again, it had been stated that this storekeeper had had the double duty thrust upon him of attending to the public works stores in addition to his usual duties. If he could do this additional duty, what had he been doing before ? He must have had jolly fine times of it. He hoped he would never be told again about the evil servants sacrificing their energies for the benefit of the colony. The vote was passed. The amount of £SOO for the introduction of salmon ova was struck out on the motion of Mr Reeves. On the vote of £SOO for the “New Zealand Justice of the Peace” some discussion took place with reference to the qualifications of the Justices of the feaco. Mr Gillies thought there should be

some exoination gone through previous to the appo.tment of those gentlemen. He knew that the ecent appointments were not of a very credible character. There was a resolution paffd by the House that the recommendationof the Superintendent should be taken in sth cases, but recently justices had been appobed without the slightest reference to the Supiintendents of provinces; in fact in some c®s the appointments had been made rathe, against their wishes. Mr Cbeighton lid there was as much blame to be attached o the last'as to the present Government o that head. On the proposal of the vote of U,OOO as part of the expense connected witl

MB VOGL’S VISIT TO ENGLAND. Mr GILLIE proposed that the consideration of the v’oi should be delayed until a fuller House W 3 present. He should like to have some expination of how the amount was incurred. Mr FOX sail he had hoped the Government would havtbeen spared the indelicacy of making an eplanation on such a matter. When his hon cohague went to England on his late mission therewas a distinct understanding between himslf and his colleagues that the whole of his epenses out of pocket were to be borne by te Government; it being also understood thahe should take his family with him, and thattheir expenses should be paid. He was -defined longer in America than he expected b would be, the journey being made under tie most unfavorable circumstances. It coul 1 not be expected that a person in his positio could live in a shabby manner, or that his duies could be performed without incurring a vey considerable expense. When Mr Yogel retuned to New Zealand he laid a statement of Is expenses before his colleagues, and it was found that he had expended a sum of about 21400 in excess of the amount he was entitled o spend according to the ordinary allowances c a Cabinet Minister. Of this sum of £I4OO, riout £4OO he (Mr Yogel) considered of a purely private nature, which he did not wish he Government to pay any part of. The balaice of £IOOO had been expended in a bona fidt way, as expenses incurred in the carrying out (fhis mission ; not one farthing of the amounthad found its way into his pocket. Tie Government, on looking into the matter of Mr Yogel’s statement, agreed to the txpenditure as set forth by him. The £4to lie immediately recouped to the Governnent, and they at once concurred with the spiritand the letter of the arrangement by Mr Yigel that the £I,OOO should be borne on the pubic estimates of the colony, and should be pad by the Government. They might, under the law, have paid Mr Yogel an amount of money as a charge for hie expenses in raising jf.be loan, and would have been justified in ooming down to the House for an appropriation to meet it. But Mr Yogel nfused to allow such a course to be adopted. He insisted that the matter should be laid before the House so as to have the opinion of members upon it, and the Government now asked the House to vote the expenditure. He would repeat the remark that not one shilling of the money went into Mr Yogel’s pocket; that it was not credited to him; that he had not received one single sixpence as bonuses for services on behalf of the colony ; that it was actually money expended in services connected with the work of the country. The Government did not wish to take upon themselves to say that the money should be paid, and they now asked the House to pass the vote. Mr GILLIES said the Premier had spoken of ordinary allowances. He would like him to say what ordinary allowances meant. Mr FOX said by ordinary allowances he meant the same allowances as those paid to Mr Fitzherbert on the occasion of his visit to England—four guineas a day. A special allowance of £250 had been made to Mr Yogel on account of the additional expenses of the land journey through America.

The vote was then carried on the voices, and after some Messages from the Legislative Council, announcing the passing of bills, had been read,

The House adjourned at a quarter past one.