PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 37, 7 October 1871, Page 5

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, October 3. The Speaker took the chair at half past two o’clock. PETITIONS. Mr Haughton presented a petition from 2400 miners of Otago, praying that a check be put upon Chinese immigration. Mr Brown presented a petition ror the reduction of the gold duty; another with reference to the Education Bill. Mr Reeves presented a petition from farmers of the Courtenay district, Canterbury, praying for the imposition of a duty on cereals. Mr J. Brown presented a similar petition from farmers of the Ashley district. Mr Calder presented a petition. Mr G-. M'Leod presented a petition with reference to the disposal of the property of a person named therein—the Registrar of the Supreme Court, Dunedin. Mr Murray presented a petition from residents of the Tokomairoro district, Otago, praying for the furtherance of public works. Mr O’Rorke presented a petition from the widow of Captain Kenny, of Auckland, praying for compensation for improvements in the registration system effected by her husband. Mr Thomson presented a petition from certain inhabitants of Otago, praying for the passing of a Permissive Bill. The petitions were ordered to lie on the table. PAYEES. Mr GISBOBNE laid on the table a number of papers and returns. EXPENSES OF WITNESSES. The SPEAKER announced that he had received a telegram from a person in Invercargill who had been summoned to the House as a witness, making inquiry as to payment of his expenses. He mentioned the matter to the House because it was necessary that some instruction should be given on the subject. Mr REYNOLDS thought it should be left entirely to the Speaker or to the members of Government to say that witnesses should be summoned from a distance. He remembered that when on a committee some years ago the expenses of witnesses amounted to between £6OO and £7OO. He would like to see it laid down that any committee wishing to call witnesses should submit the matter to the Speaker, and if he did not feel justified in l calling those witnesses that then it should be left to the House to decide. After some further discussion, during which Mr Creighton dissented from the views of Mr Reynolds, Mr FOX thought the question was one which must be left entirely to the chairman of any select committee to decide. It was not possible for the House or the Government to be able to appreciate the necessities of those cases, or the circumstances which ought to decide the amount of expenses. Mr STAEEORD said he, as Chairman of the Telegraph Committee, had summoned the witness, who was now on his way, and it would be very easy to settle the amount of his expenses when he came here, ADDEESS TO SIE DAVID MONRO. Mr FOX on rising to move that an address be presented to Sir David Monro, Knight, thanking him for his conduct in the chair while Speaker of the House, said he would be best fulfilling the duty which devolved Upon him by making as few remarks as possible upon the subject. The motion was not one which expressed the sentiments of any individual member of the House ; the proposition was one which expressed towards Sir David Monro the thanks of the united members of the House for his conduct of its business during many years. Before proceeding further he would take occasion to apologise to the House for neglect on the part of the Government, in not having fulfilled its usual duty on the close of the session of last year by proposing a vote of thanks to Sir David Monro. No doubt it was the duty of the Government to have done so, and he could not now recollect the cause through which it was neglected to be done at that time. He could only assure the House that it was owing to no disrespect to that gentleman or to the House it--self. The address he had to propose was to •the effect that the House desired to express its cordial approbation of the firmness and dignity with which Sir David Monro had maintained the privileges of the House, and to return its thanks for the urbanity and kindness 'Which bad characterised his actions while occupying the Speaker’s chair. If that address -should be adopted by the House he was prepared to move further that a respectful address be presented to her Majesty asking her to confer upon Sir David Monro some further mark of her favor.

Mr STAFFORD said he esteemed it a very great honor to rise to second the motion of the hon. member at the head of the Government. As one who had occupied a seat in the House tfor the whole period during which its deliberations were presided over by Sir David Monro, ! he could bear testimony to the great advantage of his assistance, and to the fact that the high character of the proceedings of the House • were largely owing to the courtesy and dignity with which it was presided over by Sir David Monro. Both resolutions proposed by Mr Fox were then put to the Hous, and unanimously agreed to. OTAGO LAND SALE. Mr REEVES asked the Government whether they intended to institute an inquiry into the circumstances attending an alleged sale of 50,000 acres of land in the Province of Otago, to Mr Clarke, of Melbourne, with the view of ascertaining whether the Waste Dands Board of Otago have exceeded their powers ; and if so, of taking the necessary legal steps to declare the transaction null and void. The hon member, after several interruptions from Mr Reynolds, who objected to the employment of the term “ impecunious,” as applied to Otago, said he was proceeding to make a . simple statement of the facts bearing on the

question when he was interrupted by the lion member for Dunedin. He was not giving his own opinions. It had been currently reported, nwing to circumstances to which he need not further refer, that a very large sale of land in one of the leading provinces of the Middle Island had been made to an absentee proprietor, a gentleman who resides in Melbourne. The sale consisted of about 50,000 acres, and had been sold under circumstances which locked up a large portion of the lands of Otago. It had also been stated that that sale had been made in defiance of the land regulations of that province. He need hardly point out that at a time when the General Government was about to inaugurate those great public works which were intended to secure the speedy and permanent settlement of the colony, a transaction of this kind must have a disastrous effect upon that policy. He trusted the Government would inquire into the matter.

Mr GISBORNE said the Government had ordered a detailed statament of the circumstances attending this alleged sale to be reported. Until that statement was received, the Government could not express any opinion on the question. A COIiONIATi MINT. Mr O’NEILL asked the Premier whether the Government have directed their attention to the establishment of a Mint in this colony ; and if so, whether it is prepared to take the necessary steps to carry out such a useful national undertaking ? He asked the question because in 1869, in answer to Mr Dignan, the Government stated that they would make inquiry into the matter. The hon. member went on to show in what countries mints had been established, with their consequent advantages. He thought, looking at the enormous export of gold, that it was time one was established in this colony. Mr. YOGEL said what little inquiry had been made was against the establishment of such an institution, on account of its expense. There were now two mints in Australia, which were acting in rivalry, and it was well known that they were not payable. The master of the mint at Melbourne had offered to take all the gold at the smallest possible margin of profit, so that it would not be worth their while to start one here. Possibly the time might come when it would be advisable to take into consideration the establishment of a silver currency for the whole of the Australian colonies. LIGHTHOUSES. Mr. STEW IRD asked the Colonial Treasurer whether the Government has any objection ’to lay upon the table of this House, a map showing the position of the different lighthouses at present established on the coast of New Zealand, and the radius in each case to which such lights are visible ; also, a memorandum showing what additional lights have been recommended to the Government, and the order in which it is proposed that they should have precedence of establishment. i Mr. YOGEL said a report had already been I laid on the table, containing the maps re- ' quired, and in reply to the latter part of the | question, he would lay upon the table a report j by Captain Johnson, which would supply the information. OTAGO LAND EESEETES. Mr REYNOLDS, for Mr Haughton, asked the Government whether they have instructions that Crown Grants be issued for the various Land Reserves for public purposes made by the Superintendent of Otago, on the unanimous recommendation of the Provincial Council of Otago; and if not, what is the reason of the delay P Mr GISBORNE said the lands mentioned included from two to three million acres of land, 'and the Government declined to issue crown grants because the Provincial Legislature would then alone have the power to deal with those lands, and the Government considered that the power to deal with such a large extent of crown lands should not be placed in the hands of the Provincial Legislature, but should remain with the General Legislature. The Government were willing to bring in a bill for the purpose of dealing with these lands, and it would rest with the House to vest the lands in the Superintendent if it thought fit. TELEGRAPH TO COROMANDEL. Mr O’NEILL asked the Commissioner of Telegraphs, whether the Government are prepared to give effect to the prayer of the petition of certain inhabitants of Coromandel, praying for telegraphic communication with Grahamstown, in terms of the report of the Public Petitions Committee ? Mr YOGEL said the Government were not unfavorably disposed towards the petition. Instructions had been given to the Warden at Coromandel to make inquiry so that an opinion might be arrived at which would enable them to accede to the prayer of the petition. He hoped the hon member would be content with the assurance that if the report at all justified it the matter would be entered upon at once. CROWN REDEEMS BILL. This bill was committed. Mr Gillies moved an amendment in clause 2, which would make the operation of the act. restrospective, so as to enable persons having old claims against the Government to recover. The bill was reported to the House, read a third time, and passed. contractors’ debts bill. This bill, which had been transmitted from the Legislative Council, was then read a second time. Its object is to enable workmen engaged on contract to recover wages from money due on that contract. Mr Gisborne said he thought it only just that workmen should be able, supposing a contractor failed, to recover their debts out of the moneys payable to the contractor for the work done. THE HIGHWAY BOARDS BILL. This bill was re-committed. Mr Stafford repeated his suggestion as to power being

given to the local districts to levy rates for the purpose of maintaining the main trunk roads. Some new clauses, providing for the appointment of inspectors in the different provinces for the purpose of examining and inquiring into the validity of rates imposed, were introduced. Mr Bathgate thought the power was too large a one to confer upon such persons, while Mr Gillies thought the appointment of inspectors such as those proposed would utterly paralyse the action of the boards in the Auckland province. Mr Wood objected to the new clauses as adding to the army of officials, which they were all endeavoring to reduce. Mr Swanson thought it would be better to leave the rating to the provinces themselves, who must know what was best for themselves. The General Government never would succeed in satisfying all portions of the colony ; it was like a man with eight children trying to make clothes of one size fit the whole of them. After a great deal of discussion upon some after clauses with very little progress, the Chairman asked leave to sit again to-morrow, which was granted. THE EDUCATION BILL. The House then went into Committee on this bill. The discussion commenced on clause 5, under which inspectors are appointed. The amendment of Mr. Swanson, “ providing that in no case shall any person who is or has been a clergyman be appointed,” provoked much opposition. Mr. Brandon moved the omission of the words “ or has been.” Mr. Andrew, on the principle laid down by Bacon, that “ every man owes something to his 1 profession” made a long and able defence of clergymen, and opposed the amendment of Mr Swanson. Mr Fox, in defence of his opinions on the point, advanced on a former occasion, pointed out many reasons for the exclusion of ministers, who would be liable to the weakness of enforcing their own strong opinions in the course of their examinations. He would strongly support the amendment. Mr Reeves supported the views of the Premier. He looked upon the acceptance of the amendment by him as a strengthening of the hope that he would, at a further stage of the bill, support the carrying out of a purely secular system, which he considered the best of all systems. Mr Stafford opposed the amendment, as it would have the effect of excluding, and casting stigma upon, a highly educated, perhaps the most highly educated, portion of the community. He might instance the case of Mr Mukes, who was annually requested to examine at the Nelson College, and who was a very high mathematical scholar, having taken high honors at Cambridge, and would they desire to exclude him merely because he had been a clergyman ? He thought it would be a great mistake to do so. Mr Reid agreed with the amendment, while Mr Calder, Mr Macandrew, Mr Murray, and Mr M'Gilliyray opposed it. Mr Johnston supported the amendment, and Mr Swanson, Mr Fitzherbeet only going so far as to support Mr Brandon. Mr Wakefield opposed the amendment. The second amendment, that the words “ or has been” be omitted, was then put and agreed to on the voices. On the putting of the original amendment, “ That in no case shall any person who is a clergyman be appointed an inspector of schools,” a division was called for, which resulted as follows:—Ayes, 30 ; noes, 25. The proviso was therefore added. Mr Fitzherbeet then proposed the insertion of another proviso, “ Provided further that no inspector shall be disqualified from sitting as a member of a Provincial Council.” Mr Andrew would like to add a definition of the word “ clergymen” to Mr Swanson’s amendment. He acquitted that hon member of any intention to cast a stigma on the clergy, but there was no doubt that was the only inference that could be drawn by persons outside, —that ministers could not be trusted to give an honest opinion in the matter of education. At this stage Mr Fox moved that the chairman do report progress. This was agreed to, and leave given to sit again on Thursday. COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS. Mr YOGEL, before the House went into Committee of Ways and Means, desired to make a general statement of the increases proposed to be made in the stamp duties. Under the head —Admission and appointment or grant by any writing to or of any office, place, or employment under the General Government of New Zealand, or under any Provincial Government, or the County Council of the County of Westland, or in any Municipal Corporation established under “ The Municipal Corporations Act, 1867,” or under any act or ordinance mentioned or referred to in the first schedule of the said act or any acts amending or continuing the same, where the annual salary or emoluments shall exceed £IOO and shall not exceed £2OO, £1; exceed £2OO and shall not exceed £SOO, £2; exceed £SOO, £5. By this the Government proposed to raise £650. By annual licenses, to be taken out by all joint stock companies and all incorporated companies, exclusive of mining companies, carrying on business in New Zealand, whether incorporated in this colony or elsewhere, they proposed to raipe £2OO. By tax on apprenticeship indentures they proposed to raise £IOO. By deeds of appointment and award, £2OO. By certificate of title issued or granted under the Land Transfer Act, £3OOO more than at present derived. By certificate of incorporation, for every certificate of incorporation of any joint stock company registered under the Joint Stock Companies Act, 1860, or any acts amending the same on the registration thereof, £l5O. By exemplification under the Great Seal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland of any letters patent made or to be made by her Majesty her heirs or successors of any franchise liberty or privilege or other thing whatsoever, £IOO. By mortgages and bills of sale, £5,000. By notarial faculty, for every faculty license

or commission for admitting or authorising any nerson to act as a notary public, £SO. By partition, for any instrument affecting a partition of any lands, tenements, or hereditaments, £IOOO By power of attorney, upon every power of attorney or letters of attorney executed out of the colony, to be used within the colony, £SOO. By release, renunciation, or disclaimer of any property, or of any right or interest in any property by way of sale, £IOO. By deeds of settlement, £ISOO. By affidavits, £3OO. By appraisement, £SOO. By notarial act, £IOO. By receipt given on payments of money amounting to £2, £2500. On the whole, he expected the amount raised by the increases would be £17,000

Mr WOOD complained of the irregular manner of conducting the business of the House. It was distinctly understood by members that they were only to discuss the Education Bill, and without any notice they were called upon to discuss these stamp duties. It seemed to him that the desire was to take the House by surprise, by taking the business in a haphazard way that was most favorable to the Government, without having any opportunity of discussing them in the manner in which they should be discussed. Why did tho Governnent not discuss the duty on cereals first ? Mr. YOGEL said he had distinctly stated to the House that they intended to discuss the stamp duties before the duties on cereals. He had not the slightest desire to take the House by surprise. The motion that the Speaker do leave the chair, was then agreed to, and the House went into COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY Mr SHEPHERD pointed out that the hon member had treated the House very unfairly. This was the first time they had had an opportunity of stating what they thought. The hon member was bringing forward his proposals piecemeal. He no doubt knew that if he brought them down in the lump that there were objections to the Brogden contract, that there were objections to the stamp duties, and to many other things. But he was not to be beaten in any Buch manner; he would manage to carry his ideas in detail. In fact he was the Napoleon of Finance ; he was determined to beat them in detail. Mr REID said the Colonial Treasurer had made a mis-statement when he said that the House was not treating the Government fairly; on the contrary, the Government had not treated the House fairly. The Colonial Treasurer had evaded the proper course by not following the proper routine.

Mr GILLIES said what the House and the country wanted to know was—What is the policy of the Government. It was not for the Opposition to bring down propositions for the Government to appropriate, as they had been doing for the last two years, the ideas of other members. He would submit to the House that before they had a challenge thrown down by the Government, they were entitled to know what was to be done with the Brogden contract, and the San Francisco Service. The Colonial Treasurer had invited them to name a day on which to discuss the financial proposals of the Government, and he had n® doubt if the Colonial Treasurer would lay his financial proposals before the House in the whole, the member for Timaru woul 1 have no hesitation in meeting him. Mr YOGEL said the Government had stated to the House, as far as they were able, all information members could possibly desire. Those bills the Government proposed to introduce were being prepared as rapidly as possibly. If the hon member insisted upon the admission, he would tell him that they were not going to bring down their measures in any cast-iron shape ; they were willing to accept suggestions—to take the House into their confidence. The Government were now sorry that the great discussion on the financial policy had not taken place on the first announcement, instead of wasting a fortnight in the manner in which it had been wasted. The Government had no desire to withhold information, and if the House liked they would wait until the whole of these bills were prepared. Mr REYNOLDS challenged the Opposition to come down with a distinct proposition of want of confidence, instead of following the “ nagging” course adopted by Mr Gillies. He would now dispute the position of the hon. member for Timaru as leader of the Opposition, because he would do what the Opposition seemed afraid to do. He would propose a motion of want of confidence, so that the strength of both parties might be put to the test.

Mr C ALDER pointed out that there were many features of what he considered to be the real financial policy of the Government of which they had heard nothing whatever. They had been nearly two months in session and had discussed a really serious question. It was most unsatisfactory that they should be going on this way. If the Government could not place the bills themselves before the House let them put an outline of them before them so that they might really know in what position they stood. Mr FOX said the Government had strictly adhered to the course of business laid down by him in a statement to the House a few days before, a statement on which the House had expressed no dissent. The Government were quite willing, as had already been announced by his colleague, to name a day- on which they would be prepared to accept a general discussion. Mr WAKEFIELD said the Government had challenged the House to name a day for discussion, but why did the Government not name a day, and not only name a day, but name an hour. He complained of the shifty manner of the Government in shifting the business of the order paper, and bringing on the real business in a sudden manner at twelve o’clock at night,

■when members naturally expected that the business of the day was concluded. Mr Beandon and Mr. Creighton thought the Government should bring down the whole of their bills before the House was invited to enter into discussion. Mr. Creighton complained of being tired of these petty surprises. Mb Gillies and Williamson spoke on opposite sides of the point under debate. Mr WOOD said if the order of business had been regularly proceeded with, and the proposals to levy duties on cereals had been made in due course, that proposition would have been met by a distinct proposal. They had had taunts about wasting time and trials ot Btrength, but the hon member for Timaru when he announced the formation of an Opposition, did not state that that Opposition was formed for the purpose of occupying the Government benches, but for the purpose of Beeing that rigid economy was practised in the government of the country. Mr YOGEL was willing that Thursday next should be set apart for the discussion of the proposals of the Government, although he could not assure the House that the bills would be ready to be laid before them by that time. He would now move that the Chairman report progress. The motion was agreed to, and leave granted to Bit again on Thursday. DEFENCE COMMITTEE. Mr M'LEAN moved that the name of Captain Kenny be added to the Defence Committee. Agreed to. GOVERNMENT BUSINESS. Mr FOX moved that after this week the Government business shall have precedence over that of private members on every day except Wednesdays. Mr BUNNY thought the House should sit on Mondays. Mr WOOD agreed that the House should sit on Mondays, and that that day should be devoted to private business. The House adjourned at a quarter to two o'clock.

Wednesday, Octobee 4. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. AUCKLAND GAS BILL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council in this bill were agreed to. PETITIONS. Mr PARKER presented a petition from the inhabitants of Waimate, Canterbury, in favor of a Permissive Bill. Mr W. Kellly presented a petition from the Roman Catholics of Poverty Bay with reference to Education. the manawatu. Mr COLLINS, without notice, wished to ask the Government whether it was true that the survey of the Manawatu block had been stopped by the Natives of the district. Mr FOX said the question was one on which he would prefer to have the ordinary notice from the hon member. PETITIONS COMMITTEE. The report of the committee on the petition of Mr John Martin was brought up. In answer to the prayer of the petition, in which claim waß made of about £2,500 in excess of the contract price, the committee reported that they were of opinion, from the evidence adduced before them, that Mr Martin had no claim against the Government, but recommended that they should not object to be sued in the Court if Mr Martin should think fit to take the case there, that being one of his grounds of complaint—that he was precluded from doing so. couet of appeal. Mr GILLIES asked whether the Government intend to take any steps this session towards relieving the colony of the expense of the Court of Appeal, or towards rendering that court more accessible to suitors in the Supreme Court? The mover said the cost of the court formed a very heavy item, and its benefits of course were supposed to extend over the whole colony, but the northern part of the island received no benefit from it, only one case from that part having been heard before that court. It had the further disadvantage of taking away from his duties the judge of northern district. He wished to know if the Government intended to take any steps to make the Court of Appeal more available to the northern part of the colony. Mr EOX said at that late period of the session it was not possible to take the action suggested. The Government was well aware of the shortcomings, if he might call them so, of that court, and of the little advantage derived from it. The Government would give the matter its consideration during the recess, with the view of making the Court of Appeal more useful to the colony. THE BEOGDEN CONTEACT. Mr STAFEORD asked the Minister for Public Works when, and in what shape, the question of entertaining or not either of the proposals of the Messrs Brogden, for constructing railways in New Zealand, will be submitted for the decision of the House ? Mr Stafford explained that he had called the documents “ proposals ” because he was aware of no right by which they had been called “ contracts.”

Mr GISBORNE was surprised that the hon member should have used terms in regard to the contracts which would be liable to cause discontent or dissatisfaction. The proposals, or contracts, were documents by one or other of which the Government were bound. Under any circumstances it would be advisable to await the arrival of the next mail, by whiich time it is expected Mr Brogden himself will arrive in the colony. He thought the shape in which the contract to be recommended should be submitted to the House, would be in the form of a clause in the Railway Bill to be brought down by the Government. He might mention that the Government had under consideration the subject of making payments by cash instead ot by guarantees of land. (Hear, hear.)

THE MODELS. Mr M'GLASHAN asked the Colonial Secretary if the valuable collection of books, specifications, and models of the Patent Office, London, presented to the colony gratis, are to be soon made available for perusal and study of the public, by placing them in a suitable building in Wellington, and if not, whether the Government would allow of them being deposited in the charge of the curators in the library or museum of the Otago University, Dunedin? In moving the motion the bon member stated that about twelve months ago he had occasion to make reference to some of the specifications referred to, and wrote to Dr Hector, thinking that he could forward some information on the subject for which he required it. The reply he received was that the patents were lying somewhere, he could not say where. It seemed to him to be important that the models should be shown in some suitable place, and that was why he had placed his motion on the paper. Mr GISBORNE said the question had hitherto been one of expense, but as the Government buildings had been increased, and they had now more room, the Government would consider if there could not be some means provided for the collection, bo that it could be open for inspection. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. Leave was granted to Mr R. H. Rhodes for a fortnight. LUNATIC ASYLUMS. Mr ANDREW, for Mr Hall, moved that the name of Mr Rolleston be added to the committee on Lunatic Asylums. Agreed. GOVEENMENT SCHOOLS. Mr INGLIS, for Captain Kenny, moved that a return be laid upon the table showing the amount raised in the various provinces by rates, rents, school fees, or otherwise, and devoted to the purposes of Education in the Government schools. Mr EYES explained that the object of Captain Kenny in moving for the return was to correct a statement, made by the Premier when speaking on the Education Bill, that the province of Marlborough had spent only £4O on education during the last year. Inquiry would prove that that province had spent more than any other province in proportion to its population. The motion was agreed to. ME J. S. MACFAELANE. Mr W. KELLY moved that all eorresponence relative to the resignation of his appointment by Mr J. S. M.acfarlane as a Justice of the Peace be laid on the table. Agreed to. TEEASUEY BILLS. Mr YOGEL moved that the House do, tomorrow, resolve itself into a committee of the whole to consider of giving leave to introduce a bill entitled an Act to Provide for a Deficiency of £90,000, by the issue of Treasury Bills, repayable over the two next financial years. Agreed to. BANCO SITTINGS. Mr GILLIES moved for a return of the cases decided in the Supreme Court in Banco during the last three years, showing dates of argument and decision respectively, which was agreed to. MOTUEKA ELECTION COMMITTEE. Mr BUNNY moved that the proceedings of the Motueka Election Committee, and the evidence taken, be printed. Agreed to. PETITION OF TAMIHANA. Mr WAKEFIELD moved that so soon as the petition of Tamihana Te Rauparaha and others, presented and received on the 26th, shall have been translated, printed, and in the bands of members, it shall, as complaining of present personal grievances for which there is an urgent necessity for providing an immediate remedy, be considered by the House. Agreed to. DUNEDIN CEMETEEY BILL. Mr MAC ANDREW moved that the petition of 1300 citizens of Dunedin be referred to the Private Bills Committee, with an instruction that they do reconsider their decision on the North Dunedin Cemetery Bill. Agreed to. LOAN FOE WELLINGTON. Mr FITZHERBERT moved that the House resolve itself into a committee of the whole, to-morrow, to consider of giving leave to introduce a bill authorising a loan of £IOO,OuO to the province of Wellington. Agreed to. CASE OF JOHN KELLY. Mr CREIGHTON moved that this House will, to-morrow, resolve itself into a committee of the whole, to consider an address to bis Excellency the Governor, requesting him to cause the necessary steps to be taken to give effect to the recommendations of the Public Petitions Committee in the case of John Kelly. Agreed to. DEFENCE COMMITTEE. Mr M'LEAN moved that the committee appointed by the House, on Thursday, 21st September, to consider and report upon the general defences of the colony, be constituted a secret committee. Agreed to. PROVINCIAL LANDS. Mr O’RORKE moved that the return laid on the table, on the 23rd August, showing the area of the several provinces, and the number of acres disposed of since 1856, and the number of acres remaining for disposal, be printed. Agreed to. HOEOWHENUA LAND DISPUTE. Mr GILLIES moved for all correspondence concerning the disputed land claim at Horowbenua, including reports by Major Edwards and Mr M. Clarke. Agreed to. MONEY PAID TO NATIVE TRIBES. Mr GILLIES moved for a return of all sums of money paid to any persons of any of the Ngatiapa, Rangitane, Wanganui, Muaupoko, and other similar tribes, since the last day of June, 1871. Agreed to. FIEST READINGS. The following bills were read a first time : —A bill to amend the Law for regulating the sale of Malt and Spirituous Liquors in the County of Westland, which was ordered to be read a second time that day fortnight; a Bill intituled an Act to amend the Law relating

to the Qualification of Electors and Members of the House of Representatives, a Bill intituled An Act to make provision for Licensing Sharebrokers ; a Bill intituled An Act to amend the Law relating to the Filing of certain Instruments in the Supreme Court Offices in the Province of Otago, and for Other Purposes, and a Bill intitutled An Act to amend The Municipal Corporations Act, 1867, and The Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Act, 1868, which were ordered to be read a second time on Friday ; a Bill for regulating the Sale and Disposal of Alcoholic Liquors in this Colony, and a Bill to repeal the Attorney-General’s Act, 1866, which were ordered to be read a second time next sitting day; Bills entitled An Act respecting the Government of Provinces, An Act to Transfer to the Governor in certain events the powers conferred on Superintendents, An Act to Repeal the Payments to Provinces Act, 1870, and to make other provisions in lieu thereof, and An Act entitled the Public Trust Office Act, were ordered to be read a second time on Tuesday; a Bill to amend The Building and Land Societies Act, 1866, which was ordered to be read a second time on Friday ; a Bill to amend the Law Practitioners Act, 1866, and a Bill to confer upon the Harbour Board of Auckland Borrowing Powers, which were ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday next; a bill to amend the Gold Duties Act, 1870, and for other Purposes, which was ordered to be read a second time next sitting day; a Bill entitled An Act to provide for the Establishment and Management of Gold Mining Districts, and a Bill entitled An Act to provide for Enforcing Contribution towards the cost of Draining Gold Mines by the owners of adjacent mines, which were ordered to be read a second time on Tuesday next. THE CIVIL SERVICE. The debate was resumed on the question, that, in the opinion of the House, the existing acts so far as they conferred pensions and retiring allowances upon officers in the Civil Service of the colony should be repealed, and that provision should be made for the vested inteiests that have accrued under those acts by an abatement of 2\ per cent from the salaries of all officers who are in a position to become entitled to a pension or retiring allowance under those acts, provided always that every officer who voluntarily gives up all claim to pension or retiring allowance shall be paid bis salary without abatement. Mr CREIGHTON said be could not agree with the latter part of the motion, which he thought should be omitted. He thought with such an omission the motion would be acceptable to tile Government. He would move as an amendment, “ That in the opinion of the House existing acts, so far as they conferred pensions and retiring allowances upon officers of the civil service of the colony should be repealed, and that provision should be made for the vested interests which have accrued under those acts, and that the Government be requested to bring in a bill this session to give effect to the resolution.” Mr ROLLESTON, as an old member of the Civil Service, was sorry to bear the feeling that had been evinced by the House, and was also surprised that the Government had not made a strong resentment to such a motion. He looked upon such a procedure as the worst species of economy. Mr. FOX repudiated the charge against the Government. Two of his colleagues had spoken strongly in defence of the service. While he disagreed with the hon member in that respect, he wholly agreed with him in deprecating the tone adopted by some members of the House, who, by an attempt to make the civil servants appear a mean and centemptible lot, thought to pass the resolution. Mr. STAFFORD pointed out that while in office he had taken care to institute a systematic method of appointments, which he found had not been observed by the present Government. In fact, be found that the offices at the disposal of the Government were being given to the near relatives of members of the Housewho were being put into positions, as political reward, while there was a very considerable number of young men who had passed competitive examinations, and who were justly in expectation of receiving appointments, whose claims were entirely disregarded. A great deal of dissatisfaction had been expressed to him by persons whose sons had passed these examinations and had certificates of competency, snd yet were not called upon to fill those offices to which they justly claimed to have some degree of right. Those members who objected to the growing expense complained with some reason. They saw that the bill in existence was not being used; that its provisions were not being observed j that there was no system of classification ; and that the appointments made recently were made not under any system or order, or under any of the rules required by the act, but merely by caprice. Mr Fitzherbeet, Mr Gisbobne, and Mr M'Lean spoke in defence of the civil service and its officers, while Mr Shefheed made a really good speech against the system of pensions. Mr Gisborne having made a statement of the intentions of the Government and their willingness to accept the amendment, Mr Wood replied. The amendment of Mr Creighton was then put and agreed to. GOLD DUTY IN HIGHWAY DISTRICTS. Mr SHEPHERD moved that a bill be introduced during the present session of Parliament to provide that where road districts are established on the gold fields under The Highways Act, 1871, or under Provincial Ordinances in operation in the various provinces and county of Westland, the gold duty accruing therein shall be granted to the boards of such road districts as a subsidy towards the construction and maintenance of roads, tracks, and bridges within the same, such bill not to apply to native lands. The question was being debated when the

dinner hour arrived. The discussion was postponed. THE NOETH OF AUCKLAND. The debate in committee was resumed oh the question that an address be presented to his Excellency the Governor, praying him to recommend for appropriation by this House a sum of £IOO,OOO, to be expended at the rate of not less than £20,000 in any one year, in opening up the electoral districts of Mongonui and Bay of Islands, Marsden, Rodney, and Waitemata, and connecting the scattered settlements in those districts, by means of roads and bridges, with the city of Auckland. Mr FARNALL spoke to the motion, mentioning the fact that the debate had been adjourned to give the Colonial Secretary an opportunity of showing in his statement how he proposed to deal with the works in the district. In that statement he (Mr Farnall) had been quite disappointed. Mr GISBORNE, after explaining the works policy of the Government, which he said had been framed on votes of House, from which it was not in his power to diverge, requested the hon member to withdraw his motion.

Mr O’NEILL wished to know distinctly how much the Government proposed to spend in the district.

Mr GISBORNE said there was the £IO,OOO a year, for four years, which of course, would amount to £40,000; the construction of the Kaipara railway, £35,000; to be spent by the province* £25,000, on condition that the Government took over the railway. That amounted to £IOO,OOO, besides any money which might be spent in the district under the public works and emigration scheme, in the settlement of immigrants and the acquisition of land. Mr. FARNALL said the Minister of Works had promised them railways in the future, and settlements of immigrants in the future, neither of which they wanted at all. What they did want was a road to the North of Auckland, of which the proposals of the Government said nothing whatever. Mr. M’LEOD hoped the Government were not going to leave the district to the mercy of the Provincial authorities ; they had been experiencing what that meant for the last seventeen years. If the Government themselves did not attend to the wants of the district, there would be but one course open to the residents —to leave the district for other countries. He could only consent to accede to the proposal of the Minister for Public Works on condition that £25,000 was spent on roads in the district, come from where it might. KATENE thought a vote of £40,000 not nearly sufficient for the requirements of the district. The hon member pointed out what those requirements were, and in what portions, and in what manner, the money should be spent. Mr SWANSON thought the Government should at once accept the suggestions of the members who had spoken. He would call to the recollection of the Government the fact that the Maoris, years ago, asked the Europeans to come and dig the gold from Coromandel, and in every way wished to further the settlement of the district by offering |facilities to the Europeans, and if the wishes of the natives in the neighborhood of the Ohinemuri had been consulted there never would have been any of those disputes about the opening of the roads and the telegraph, about which there was now so much trouble. Mr D. M'LEAN said the hon member had spoken as if the Government opposed the motion ; the fact really was that they favored it, and were at one with the mover.

Mr GILLIES complained that the Government had never given any official intimation of their intentions with regard to the works to be undertaken in the province. He did not agree with, nor had he ever assented to, any proposal to spend the money in any manner the Government chose to dictate. The Government had not dictated any terms as to the way in which the money for the purchase of the Canterbury railways should be spent, and why should they arrogate to themselves the right to say in what way the money for the purchase of the Kaipara railway should be spent. The Government could not expect any Provincial Government to stand that. Mr YOGEL suggested the withdrawal of the motion. Mr WILLIAMSON suggested that the Chairman should report progress. The motion was agreed to, leave being given to sit again on Wednesday next. OAMAEU DOCK TRUST BILL. This bill was read a second time, no opposition being offered, and was ordered to be committed to-morrow. LAW OF LIBEL AMENDMENT BILL. Mr STEWART, on moving the second reading of this bill, said it proposed to confer no further privileges than those conferred by the laws of England and America. The hon. member went through the clauses seriatim , referring, in passing, to a case which occurred in Otago five years ago, where certain statements were made with regard to the conviction of a schoolmaster which were absolutely true in fact, but where an action was entered against the “Daily Times,” and damages obtained, because that paper had published the proceedings of the Education Board of the province, in which occurred the circumstances of the dismissal of that person. There was no doubt whatever that the report was absolutely true and without malice, and that it was for the public interest that the proceedings should be published ; but notwithstanding the newspaper was cast in damages. He would submit that any public body, consisting of responsible officers appointed by the Government directly or indirectly, should be liable to the scrutiny of the public through their representatives, the press j it was necessary that the proceeding of such bodies should be laid before the public correctly and without coloring, so that if any officer misconducted himself it should be

known to them, and not that the mantle of secreey should be thrown over any proceedings of an improper nature. In the case of electoral meetings, the bill expressly stated that in reports of those meetings the newspaper shall be bound to show that what it published was necessary to the public interest. If members were prepared to show that slander was necessary to the public interest, they must vote against the bill, but if not they must vote for it. He would say this, that although there were papers in the colony which did not deserve to rank as respectable newspapers, yet, notwithstanding, the press of New Zealand would compare favorably with any press in the world.

Mr SHEPHERD opposed the bill, although he recognised the fact that there were newspapers in the colony, and persons connected with them, who were deserving of all respect, and were highly valuable as exponents and advocates of the public good; but, on the other hand, there was a class of writers connected with the newspapers of the colony, who seemed to dip their pens in gall, for the circulation of most scandalous falsehoods and the perpetration of libels. He would vote against the bill for the latter reason. Mr HARRISON said the times were greatly changed since the introduction of the bill by the present Colonial Treasurer. He, as an old member of the profession, thought the protection given by this bill was not at all required. He thought there was a great difference between liberty and license. The newspaper press of New Zealand enjoyed sufficient liberty, being well protected by existing laws against vexatious prosecution. The restrictions of the present libel law were not too restrictive for any honest journalist. He would be sorry to see the present bill pass; it was inconsistent itself in some of its clauses.

Mr CURTIS agreed with the general principles of the bill, and would vote for the second reading. Mr BRANDON thought the passing of the bill would be opening the door to the grossest of abuses. The present bill not only provided that newspapers might publish election proceedings where the most rancorous assertions were sometimes made, but that they should have liberty to comment upon those proceedings. It would be placing in their hands a very undesirable power. In other respects he saw no difference between this bill and the present law. Mr Brandon read the opinion of an English judge, setting forth all the liberties required by an honest press. He need not go far for exemplification of the abuses of which he complained. Members themselves must have seen, since they had been in Wellington, with what unfairness and injustice the members of the House had been criticised. (Hear, hear.) There was another class of newspapers, similar to the dirty, low, vulgar press of England, which pandered to the vitiated tastes of the worst classes of the community, which it would be highly desirable to keep in check. The House would have to be very careful before it passed a bill like the present or they would institute a system which would be regretted in after time. He would move that the bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr TRIBE thought there was an entire misapprehension of the object of the bill. The question was this : was it desirable that the press should give true reports of public meetings. If so, all the bill provided was that newspapers should give such reports, which of course would be subject to the jurisdiction of the courts as to whether they were substantially true, and if they were he did not see why the press should suffer for making a truthful reflex of statements made in public. Mr REID said there were many serious objections to the bill. In referring to the Otago case, he thought the easting in damages.of the “ Otago Daily Times” was perfectly justifiable. He considered that if statements of a genuine character were made under a feeling of excitement, at road boards, for instance, where the action of an engineer or other professional man might be brought under discussion, and statements of a just nature were made, it was not right that they should go forth to the world through the newspapers, when otherwise they might never have become public. He would oppose the bill. Mr WHITE was in a difficulty whether to support the bill or not. He certainly thought the press enjoyed sufficient liberty at present. His attention had been called to remarks made in the “ Hawke’s Bay Herald,” which were of a character sufficient to prove that it would be very dangerous to grant further liberties to persons who so little knew what were the proper duties of a person occupying a position connected with the press of the colony. If the mover of the present measure would bring in a bill to legalise the horsewhipping of Buch rascals as the person of whom he had spoken, he would support the bill; but, in the absence of such a measure, he must oppose the one before the House. The amendment of Mr Brandon was put and agreed to. The House adjourned at a quarter to one. Thursday, Octobee 5. The Speakee took the chair at half-past two o’clock. PETITIONS. Wi Parata presented a petition from a native, with reference to the granting of a title to land. Mr Stafford presented a petition from runholders in Otago, asking the House to pass a bill now before the House with reference to goldfields. Mr Rolle?ton presented a petition from inhabitants of Canterbury, praying for the passing of a Permissive Bill. PAPEES. Mr M‘Lean and Mr Gtsboene laid on the table a number of papers and returns. WASTE LANDS PETITION. Mr GILLIES brought up the report of the Waste Lands Committee on the petition of

residents of Waitahuna. The suggestion of the committee was that the matter was one for the consideration of the Provincial Council of Otago. NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY. Mr E. RICHARDSON asked the Colonial Secretary what amount has already been expended out of the New Zealand University Endowment Fund, and how much has been paid for allowances and travelling expenses to membei’s of the council, including liabilities to date ? The bon member said he had been informed that under the act of last year £3OOO was handed over to the Council of the New Zealand University. There had been meetings of the council—one in Dunedin and one in Wellington—and the members had not been able to agree among themselves on the subject, so that the money voted for the institution bad not been invested or turned to any profitable account. He bad been informed that the Government could exercise no control in the matter —that the disposal of the money was left entirely to the University Council. Feeling a great interest in the progress and welfare of the New Zealand University, he thought it only right that some action should be taken now for the purpose of securing that the money was expended advantageously. Mr GISBORNE said the 17th section of the University Act rendere'd it imperative on the Government to pay over to the University Council the sum specified in that act. The law did not provide that the Council of the University should render any account to the Government of how they spent that money, and of course the Government could not call upon them to state how muchof the money was spent under each of the different heads specified in the 17fch section. Until the law was altered the rendering of such accounts of the expenditure of money must be done entirely at the option of the University Council. SOUTH WEST GOLDFIELDS Mr HARRISON asked the Minister for Public Works, whether the Government intena to propose the extension of the provision in “ The Immigration and Public Works Act, 1870,” with regard to the substitution of roads for railways in the county of Westland, to the South-west goldfields of the Province of Nelson. Mr GISBORNE said the Government had received from an hon member a proposal with reference to the South-west goldfields, which they were disposed favorably to consider, and would bring down to the House in the form of a bill. The proposal in reference to the substitution of roads for railways would be contained in that bill, so that the matter would really be in the bands of the House to decide. SAN EEANOISCO CONTEACT. Mr COLLINS asked the Government, when and in what shape the question of the San Francisco mail contract will be submitted for the decision of the House. He said it was very necessary that the question should be brought before the House, as there could be no doubt that it was the general opinion that the Colonial Treasurer had exceeded his powers in making the contract. It was highly advisable that they should ascertain whether the Colonial Treasurer had exceeded his powers in making the contract, as well as in allowing the contractors to evade that contract by taking the steamers on to Australia. The Government would be acting wisely in having the matter brought before the House. Mr. GISBORNE said the question would be submitted to the House in the shape of a resolution, in which form the House would be invited to discuss the question immediately after the arrival of the next mail from San Francisco. THE MANAWATU. Mr COLLINS asked the Government whether it was true that the survey of the Manawatu Block had been stopped by the natives, in accordance with certain resolutions passed at meetings held at Rangitikei on the 13feh and 14th September, and communicated to the Government: and whether the Government are prepared to lay the report of those meetings and all other papers having reference to the Manawatu dispute now in their possession on the table of the House ? His reason for asking til© question was that there was a rumor about Wellington that the natives of the Manawatu were objecting to the survey of that part of the country. The people in general and he amongst them, had beeu reposing confidently in the assurance of the Government that a most advantageous peace .existed throughout the northern island—a peace which had been brought about by their masterly policy; but it seemed clear to him that the people had been lulled into a fool’s paradise.. He hoped the answer of the Government would prove that there was nothing more in this threat than that the natives of the Manawatu had given vent to a small hint to the Defence Minister that they had been neglected in those good things which the Government were in the habit of distributing.

Mr M'LEAN said the Government had seen the reports, which stated that it was possible objection might be made to the survey of the Manawatu, but as no information on the subject had been received by the Government they could give the hon member no answer. He failed to see, however, that the stoppage of the survey of the Manawatu would in the least affect the peace of the country. He did not attach much importance to the action of the natives, who might possibly only object to the surveying of the land until the boundary question had been fiually settled. Beyond what he had stated he was not aware that the natives were discontented. The rumor referred to was brought about by a person who is interested in fomenting the natives to keep up the agitation. EXPLANATION. Mr GISBORNE wished to withdraw a remark he had made in speaking on the motion introduced by the member for Parnell with

reference to the civil service. He had imputed to that hon member the individual responsibility for the expenditure of the three million loan. He was corrected immediately afterwards by the hon member for City West, who stated to him that the hon member Mr Wood, although the Colonial Treasurer at the time, was in England during the period in the money was being spent. Mr WOOD was sorry the hon member had thought it necessary to make such remarks. He always looked upon such statements made in the House as jokes. Besides, members of the House must know that the Ministry with which he was connected spent something less than a million, and it must be generally known that he was in England raising money for others to spend. (Laughter.) The hon member must have known that if the remark applied to him in any sense it must apply much more forcibly to a member of the present Ministry. He could assure the hon member that he really took ho notice of his remarks; they did not cause him much trouble. THE TELEGEAPH. Mr GILLIES moved for copies of any contracts entered into with Mr Dixon, Mr M'Kenzie, or any other persons for the extension of the Telegraph between Shortland andTauranga: together with all tenders and correspondence in reference thereto. The hon member stated that Mr M‘Kenzie would have undertaken the contract and carried it out Successfully through the agency of Mr Mackey, but to the exhibition of jealousy towards that officer was to be attributed the unsatisfactory state of the work at the present day. Mr M'LEAN had no objection to supply the papers, although the hon member had misrepresented the case altogether. He could assure him that it was not on account of any jealousy towards Mr Mackey that Mr M’Kenzie’s contract was not accepted, but simply because he could not fulfil a contract which he had in hand. He might add that the agent of the Government at Auckland bad been instructed to offer every assistance, and bad full authority to carry on the contract in any way, or by any person who was most likely to be successful in completing the work. PETITION OP WAIKATO OPEICEES. Captain M'PHERSON moved that this House resolve into a committee of the whole on Wednesday, to consider the report of the Public Petitions Committee on the petition of Thomas Wilson and four other officers of the Waikato regiments. Agreed to. MAOEI AEFAIES. Mr WAKEFIELD moved that a select committee of thirteen members be appointed, to consider all petitions, reports, returns, and other documents relating to affairs specially affecting the native race, that have been, or may be, specially brought before this House during the session, and that have not been previously disposed of by the House; and from to time to report thereon to the House ; with power to call for persons and papers. The committee to consist of the Hon D. M'Lean, Mr Karaitiana Takamoana, Mr M'Leod, Mr Katene, Mr W. Kelly, Mr Farnall, Mr Bryce, Mr Carrington, Mr Ormond Mr Parata, Mr Calder, Mr Taiaroa, and the Mover. Agreed to. EOADS TO GOLD EIELDS. The debate was resumed on the question that a bill be introduced during the present session of Parliament to provide that where road districts are established on the gold fields under The Highways Act, 1871, or other acts of the General Assembly or under provincial ordinances in operation in the various provinces and county of Westland, the gold duty accruing therein shall be granted to the boards of such road districts as a subsidy towards the construction and maintenance of roads, tracks, and bridges within the same. Such bill to apply native lands. Mr MACANDREW hoped that the hon member who moved the motion on the previous evening would withdraw the motion. He must see that if the resolution bad been in force in years past the effect would have been that instead of the moneys derived from the hon member’s own district, for instance, being spent, as it had been spent, in the opening up of roads from the seaboard, there never would have been any such roads to the present day. He might as well say that moneys raised from runs should be spent only on roads through those runs. This motion was reverting to a species of class legislation, to which he entirely objected. No doubt the reputation of the hon member as the champion of the gold mines was well recognised in the House and out of it, so that by withdrawing the resolution lie could assure the hon member that reputation which he had so deservedly gained was not likely to suffer. He would challenge the hon member for the Dunstan, or other hon members, to show that any other province had spent so much money in the opening up of main roads as had the province of Otago. He thought the hon member for the Dunstan had really very little to complain about. Mr GISBORNE said the Government did not intend to bring in such a bill as that desired by the hon member for the Dunstan. A bill would be brought in for the purpose of dealing with the Nelson South West Goldfield, and possibly they might include in its provisions some reference to the district which the hon member represented. MrO’OONOR moved as an amendment, that, in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that a bill be introduced this session of Parliament, to enable road boards to be formed on the goldfields of the colony, and that 33 per cent of the special revenue derivable from any distric t be placed at the disposoal of sujh a board for local purposes, and that the Government be requested to give effect to this resolution.

Mr MERVYN, who moved the amendment himself on the previous day, but was precluded by the rules of the House from doing

so on the resumption of the debate, spoke in support. The question merged into a general discussion, being taken up by numbers on both sides of the House. The motion of the member for the Dunstan was negatived on the voices. The amendment of Mr O’Conor was then pub, when a division was called for, which resulted as follows:—Ayes, 12 ; Noes, 36. The whole question was therefore negatived. The original question having been put,in accordance with the forms of the House, “That all the words after the word * That, at the beginning of the motion, be struck out, with the view to insert certain words,” was negatived, and the amendment constituting the “ certain words” also having been negatived, the word “That” was left standing by itself. A discussion arose as to how the word should be disposed of, and ultimately Mr REID, amidst great laughter, proposed the insertion of the words “ The Government be requested to prepare a bill during the recess to provide for the establishment of shire councils throughout the country.” Mr STAFFORD, in seconding the motion, said it was evident that Provincial Councils were doomed, and he would be sorry to see the whole legislation of the country confined to the General Government only. By enabling some such plan as that indicated by the hon. member for Taieri to be brought into operation, they would introduce into this country the real living embodiment of local and inexpensive Government. He trusted tho Government would be able to present to the House next session a measure of the kind, which would receive the general acceptance of the House and the country. Mr EYES thought it was not competent for the House to go into a question which was totally irrelevant to the whole matter before them.

Mr MEB.YYN moved as another amendment “ That a per centage of the revenue derived from the goldfields should be set apart by act of the Assembly for the purpose of subsidising road boards, and that the Government be requested to give effect to this resolution.” He moved this amendment because he had been given to understand that the Government did not accept the last amendment he moved on account of the amount of percentage asked being too high. Mr WHITE thought the question raised by the motion of the member for Taieri was too large a one to be dealt with, as they had been asked to do, on the spur of the moment. It might be desirable to substitute some other form of Government for Provincial Governments, but he could assure those who had made up their minds upon the point and took it for granted that Provincial Governments were to be swept away, that there were many of the most able advocates in the House who intended to defend them. He hoped the amendment of Mr Reid would be withdrawn. Mr FOX entirely disapproved of the bringing on of such a motion as that of the hon member for Taieri at such a time. It might be considered a very smart thing, but he would point out to the House that a very considerable amount of time was being wasted by needless discussions of such a nature as that brought on by the hon member. A termination was put to the further discussion of the matter by the rejection of Mr Reid’s amendment. The Speaker then declared that as an amendment substantially the same as that of the hon member for Mount Ida had been previously rejected he could not put the present one to the House. DISCUSSION ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT. Mr FOX announced, in speaking of the conduct of the business of the House, that in consequence of the illness of the Colonial Treasurer the debate on the financial question, which bad been arranged to come on that evening, would have to be delayed. He suggested that the general discussion on the finances should take place to-morrow. The resolutions of Mr Macandrew, which were down for discussion on the evening of the present sitting, he thought it would be better to postpone until Wednesday next at half-past seven. Mr STAFFORD said he thought the objection of the Government to the introduction of motions affecting such organic changes should apply equally to Mr Macandrew’s resolutions a 3 to the recent motion of Mr Reid, because if there was ever a most impracticable ques-, tion brought before the House it was that of the member for Port Chalmers, excepting of course, the one brought forward last year by the member for Dunedin (Mr Reynolds). Mr MACANDREW said no doubt, if the resolutions had come from the proper quarter it would have been considered proper by certain members that the House should have discussed them long ago —that they should not have remained on the Order Paper for so many weeks, - He could tell the hon member that they had elicited considerable discussion throughout the country. He had no objection to the postponement, but he hoped when the time came no further delay would take place. If they had been introduced by the hon member (Mr Stafford) they would not have been put off from time to time as they had been ; they would have met with a different fate. Mr WOOD did not doubt it. He quite agreed that they would have met with an entirely different fate. They would have been treated as a want of confidence in the Government. NEWSPAPEE POSTAGE. Mr STEWARD moved that, in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that the postal charge upon newspapers within the colony be reduced to a half-penny. He said there could be no doubt whatever that it was the general desire that the newspapers of the colony should bo enabled to distribute information throughout the conutry at as cheap a rate as possible. The question was not a question concerning the newspapers; it was one con-

cernine the purchasers of newspapers, because every person who lived at any distance from a post town who wished to tab m a newspaper would have to pay an amount of 26s ayear, and this he thought should be reduced bv introducing a motion which would have the effect of saving one-half of that amount in the expense of postage. The argument might be raised that the reduction of the postage from one penny to half-penny would represent a reduction of exactly one-half of the present revenue raised under that head. lhat was not the fact, because in the case of the telegraph it absolutely increased the revenue instead of decreasing it. The reduction of the rate of postage would result in the increase of the number of newspapers posted, and probably there would be no loss to the revenue at all. He believed members would agree that it was the general desire that the public should be afforded every means of ascertaining whatever goes on with regard to the proceedings of public bodies—whether it be the legislature of the colony, or whether it be with regard to those smaller bodies, which immediately affect themselves—and the only means by which they could arrive at what was done in those bodies was through theissue of the papers from day to day. He could say, with regard to the motion, that he was not moving it without precedent; that within six months ago the colony of Victoria had adopted the reduction for which he was now moving, and the reduction was effected there in the face of a possible loss of £7OOO from the revenue. He fglt confident there would be no financial difficulty experienced in this colony on account of such a change. Mr REYNOLDS seconded the motion pro forma, though he intended to oppose it. It would entail a great loss of revenue. He would like to see the reduction made if they could afford it, hut the fact was they could not. He hoped the Government would not consent to the passing of the motion. Mr GISBORNE repeated the opinion that the colony could not afford the loss of revenue that would be caused by the reduction of a half-penny. It would be throwing away several thousands of pounds. Mr BATHGATE thought the reduction would cause no loss of revenue. He might mention that one of the leading newspapers in Otago, the “ Daily Timeß,” sent about half of its circulation by private means, which, if the reduction were made, would be sent through the post office. Mr REEVES could corroborate Mr Bathgate’s opinion. His experience was similar to that of the hon member Mr Bathgate, which was identical the Chief Postmaster of Christchurch, who believed that such a reduction as that mentioned by the motion would materially increase the revenue. Mr Shephaed was speaking in opposition to the motion when the dinner hour arrived. SECOND READINGS. The Oamaru Town Reserves Management Bill, the Wellington Reserves Management Bill, and the Invercargill Public Gardens Reserves Alienation Bill, were read a second time. On the motion for the second reading of the Canterbury Rivers Act Amendment Bill a warm discussion took place. Mr E. RichabdSON, in moving that the bill be read a second time that day six months, charged the Superintendent of the province with attempting in his introductory remarks to mislead the House by a misstatement of facts. He presented a petition from the Mayor of the city and the chairmen of several road boards against the bill. Mr Reeves seconded the amendment in a forcible speech which reviewed the history of the bill since. its first introduction, and enumerated the grievances and discontent to which it had given rise in the province. Mr Wakefield also opposed the bill, as did Mr Batbgate, of Otago. On the question being put, that the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the question, it was declared to be with the Noes, and a division being called for, the result was as follows : Ayes, 20; Noes, 28. The bill was consequently thrown out, the proposal to read it a second time that day six months being carried. AMENDMENTS BY LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Auckland Burial Grounds Bill were agreed to - . On the question that the amendment made in the Justices Protection Act Amendment Bill be agreed to, Mr W hite’s while pointing out that the amendments made reversed all that he had fought for, admonished those other members who, having taken a very active part in discussing its provissions, when it was before the House, were now absent from their seats at the eleventh hour. He proposed, on the ground that be had not had an opportunity of perusing the amendments, that they should he considered tomorrow. Mr Fox objected to postponement, and consequent loss of time, because members did not take the trouble to make themselves aware of the business of the House. If the bill were delayed till to-morrow, he would then move that the bill be struck off the order paper. It was not worth the time it had consumed. Mr White and Mr Wakeyield resented the rebukes of the Premier, the former gentleman moving that the amendments be considered that day six months. On the suggestion of several members, Mr White withdrew his amendment, and proposed that the amendments should be considered on Wednesday next, which was agreed to. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. On the item Legislative Department, £12,109, Mr Bathgate objected to the item reporters, £I2OO, and printing of Hansard, £IOOO. He thought the present system most unsatisfactory. What was required was that the debates should be printed every morning, so that members might have an opportunity of replying to arguments adduced on the previous day. He believed what be desired could he done by some newspaper firm at half the present cost. Mr Habbison thought the object of the hon member would be met by a pro- \

posal of the Reporting Debates Committee, which recommended the House to suggest that the Government should call for tenders for the printing of Hansard otherwise than by the Government printing office, and that the tendering should be thrown open to the whole colony. Mr Gisbobne said the present system had been arrived at after great consideration, and if the hon member desired to see it altered he should propose some resolution on , the matter. Mr Gillies pointed out that the item £SO for interpreter to the House was much too low. It would be far better to have an officer in the House who would be placed in a position wholly above suspicion, and with that object he would propose that they should pay a good salary to an interpreter who should be an officer of the House and not an officer of the Government. Mr Wood spoke on the reduction of the Hansard expense. All the requiremens of the House would be supplied by the publication of condensed reports. Mr Bathgate proposed the reduction of the Hansard vote by £SOO. When he saw the enormous sum down for the printing office, £5,543, he thought it was time there should be a reduction. Mr J. E. Brown and Mr Reynolds thought the item £6,000 for the expenses of members of the Legislature should be divided amongst members: that the sum for each should be fixed By this means the sessions would be much shortened. Mr White supported this view. Mr Cbeighton supported the reduction. The item might be taken off the one item for the printing. The printing office itself cost nearly as much as the native department, and there was no department of the Government in which there was so little control. The vote was ultimately passed as it stood. Under the vote for the Treasury, Mr Bathgate proposed to reduce the item —Paymaster-General —from £7OO to£6oo, the salary paid last year; the reduction was negatived. On the item £3OO, Secretary to the Colonial Treasurer, some remarks were made by Mr Mueeax upon the necessity for such an office, when the occupant and its chief had been out of the country during the past year, Mr Shepheed, while speaking to the vote, mentioning that the colony had paid no less an amount than £7,000 as the expense of New Zealand’s ambassadors. This brought up Mr Bell, who, in speaking of the mission of Mr Vogel, incautiously stated that that minister was the “ best man” who could have been sent to England. This he voluntarily withdrew, when Mr Shepheed interjected, “ But you meant it.” Mr Bell retorted somewhat testily, stating that that hon member should have been the last to have been guilty of such bad taste. This bandying continued for some little time, until the Chairman called Mr Speaker to order by intimating that he could not permit him to indulge in personalities in the House. The amount passed without reduction. Under the vote £2,000 for Registrars of Marriages, Mr Cbeighton inquired how it was that Mr Buller, of Wanganui, received £2OO under this head, when, as the Colonial Secretary informed them no officer could receive more than £IOO. There were ocher things connected with Mr Buller’s absence, which he could characterise only as a “ gross job.” When the proper time came he would make further inquiry how it was that Mr Buller enjoyed himself in England at an expense to the colony of £6OO per annum. Mr' Gisbobne said when that time did come he would be quite prepared to explain the whole matter. One explanation oi the excess was given by the item £7O for forage. Mr Fox said hon members appeared surprised at the item for forage. “ No,” said Mr Creighton, “ I’m surprised at nothing.” Mr Fox explained that the area of country over which Mrßuller’s dutiesextended was sixty miles. On the vote, £3OO for stationery, store department, Mr Creighton inquired what the duties of the storekeeper were, and after explanation from the Colonial Secretary, asked what necessity there was for the Government Printer, when the duties laid down by the Colonial Secretary as being those of the Storekeeper were clearly such as should be performed by the Government Printer. From the explanation given, the latter officer must have nothing whatever to do. Mr Muheay proposed that the vote be struck out, which, on division, was lost. The total vote, Executive departments, £14,392 9s Bd, was then put and agreed to. On the total item, £2BOB JBs for the stamp department, Mr Cbeighton proposed a reduction of £SOO, Mr Gillies mentioning the fact that the Deputy Commissioner of the Auckland branch had so little to do, and was so little required, that the matter was a public scandal. Mr Habbison thought the item £SO for Deputy Commissioner, Westland, should be struck out, which Mr White opposed. The total vote was passed as it stood. The Chairman then reported progress, leave being granted to sit again next sitting day. The House adjourned at a quarter past one.