PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 34, 16 September 1871, Page 4

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Fbiday, September 8. The Speaker took the Chair at half-past two o'clock. PETITIONS. Mr Hunter and Mr RHODES presented petitions to the House. PAPERS. Mr Gisborne laid upon the table a number of papers and returns. PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE. Mr T. KELLY brought up the report of the Petitions Committee on the petition of twelve importers of Dunedin, praying that no increased duty may be imposed upon furniture ; the committee reported that as the subject matter of the petition was a question of policy they could not recommend its prayer to the consideration of the House. Also, on the petition of fifty-nine residents of Otago complaining of the land laws of that province; the committee were of opinion that the petition should be referred to the Standing Committee of the House with reference to such matters. Also, the report of the committee on the petition of 157 agriculturists of Canterbury in favor of a protective duty on grain ; the committee reported that as the subject matter of the petition was a question of public policy they did not deem it necessary to offer any opinion to the House. PETITIONS OP MESSRS HOOPER AND SMITH. Mr WOOD asked the Colonial Secretary whether it was the intention of the Government to give effect to the report of the Public Petitions Committee on the petitions of R. H. Hooper and George Smith, by amending the Medical Practitioners Act, 1869 ? Mr GISBORNE said there were two ways of giving effect to the recommendation of the committee —either to alter the present law or to pass some special law relating to Messrs Hooper and Smith. He had been informed, after enquiry, that to pass such special legislation would reintroduce such an element of uncertainty as would materially affect the administration of the law, and therefore the Government did not think it advisable that such alteration should take place ; they did not think it advisable to advise any legislation without consulting the Medical Board. LYTTELTON TIME BALL. Mr PEACOCK asked the Colonial Secretary if the Government have received from the Superintendent or Government of Canterbury any correspondence relative to the construction and maintenance of a time ball at the port of Lyttelton, and if so, what action they intend to take in the matter ? Mr GISBORNE replied that the Government had not decided on erecting a time apparatus at Lyttelton, because the correction of time balls in the South would wholly occupy one wire during a quarter of an hour of the busiest portion of the day. The Government would be willing to erect the ball if the Canterbury authorities were willing to pay the expense, which would be about £350 for the cost of the apparatus itself, which would be increased to about £SOO by the erection. EXPLANATION Mr FOX wished to explain an error in his speech, as reported in " Hansard," in reply to the member for Collingwood with reference to Mr Vogel's embassy. In explaining how Mr Vogel's duties had been performed in his absence, ho said that they had been performed, as in the case of the absence of other ministers—by their "colleagues." He was represented to have said that the duties were performed by their "clerks." The mistake was an unfortunate one, because it made him say the very thing the member for Collingwood wished him to say, and which he had been very careful to avoid by saying what was the fact, that they were performed by his " colleagues." NELSON GAS BILL. The report of the select committee on this bill was brought up, and the second reading ordered for Tuesday. JUSTICES PBOTECTION AMENDMENT BILL. The House went in committee on this bill. A considerable amount of discussion ensued on the postponed clause. Taiaroa inquired whether the provisions of the act applied to Maoris who sat on the bench. Mr D. M'Lean said the clause would not apply to native assessors ; it referred exclusively to European magistrates. Ultimately the clause was passed with considerable amendments, and the chairman having reported the bill to the House the amendments were ordered to be considered on Tuesday. VACCINATION BILL, This bill was committed, and after considerable discussion on what may be called the compulsory clauses of the bill, it was reported to the House. HANSARD REPORTS. Mr WAKFIELD drew the attention of the Speaker to certain matters connected with the printing of " Hansard." The SPEAKER thanked the hon member for having brought under his notice such an important matter. Ho himself had even greater reason to complain than the hon member had. Many corrections he had made in his speeches had been left undone, and, moreover, important portions of the speech containing his ruling on the course to be adopted in the Motueka election case had been entirely omitted. He thought the proper course for the hon member to adopt would be to make a complaint to the Reporting Debates Committee. NEW MEMBER. Mr E. J. O'Cokor was sworn and took Ins seat. THE EDUCATION BILL. The debate on the second reading of this bill was resume - '. Mr KELLY thought it unfortunate that the provinces had been made the educational boundaries, although he did not see how it

could be otherwise. He would like the measure to have been a more colonial one, but the probability was that if it had been made so, and had not utilised the provincial boundaries, it would not have passed this session. He agreed with the member for Nelson City that the provincial boards should be elected either by the inhabitants of the locality, or by the people at large. He also agreed with the member for the Hult that they did not want both local committees and provincial boards. With regard to the compulsory clauses, he thought it would be unwise to pass them in their present shape, and in respect to the financial aspect of the bill, he thought it was a step in the right direction. As a colonial measure, he was disappointed with it, because he supposed that in a colonial measure they would have provided for the education of the poorer districts of the colony, but those districts would remain entirely as they were at present. He thought both the owner and occupier should pay a share towards the education of the country. He also thought the holders of bank and mining stock should be taxed for the support of an educational system, because it would made the charges under the bill press more equally. On the whole, he believed the bill was a good one, and would sink some of hie own wishes for the sake of providing a good measure As regarded the religious training provided by the bill, he approved of it. What would have been the position of England had it not been for religious teaching ? He would support the principle of aided schools as laid down in the bill. He hoped the House, in future sessions, would make all endeavors to improve the measure where improvement was found to be necessary.

Mr BUNNY hailed with great pleasure the fact that the House was, for the first time, dealing with the question of education in a practical manner. He thought that at the present time they ?hould contine themselves to a simple elementary education. We owed the highest debt of gratitude to those persons not of the high intellectual class who had done so much for this country, and he would provide a purely useful elementary education for the children of those men. New Zealand had had more of the high intellectual class than any other country, but they had done for the country nothing compared to what those hard working men had done. Taking the result of their deliberations for the last seventeen years, up to the last session they had done nothing wdiatever of a beneficial nature for the country at large. With regard to the principles of the measure he mu<t say that he objected to the constitution of the boards. A suggestion had been made that ladies should be elected to these boards, but. we were perfectly aware that in this country the female portion of the country had too much to do. How would a man like to hear, when he came home for his dinner, that his wife had gone to the educational board. He objected also to the system of local committees. If they had educational boards and proper inspection, what on earth did they want with these local committees. Let the educational board appoint and pay the teachers. He thought in a thinly populated country like this they might adopt, with advantage, a system of travelling school-masters. We had a large population that could not attend any school. (Mr Fox : There is such a provision in the bill.) He was glad to hear it. He objected to the compulsory clauses, because if they attempted to compel parents to send their children they would fail to make the bill acceptable to the people ; some of the children lived at such a distance that they could not by any possibility get to the schools. He did not believe in forcing upon the people a thing which they would in all likelihood come to if left to themselves. He trusted the compulsory clauses would be struck out. As regards taxation, he would like to see the legislature in all questions it took in hand deal with it absolutely once and for all. He thought the House should take upon itself to say what and how the amounts should be paid, and while on this subject he was strongly of opinion that personal property should be included in the taxation of the bill, so as to contribute a fair share of the expense of the education of the country. They were now preparing a machinery which must follow this bill —the taxation of all descriptions of property. In the matter of religious education the Roman Catholics of the country had no desire to interfere with other denominations as to how they should educate their children. They said " give us one portion of the taxation of the country for the benefit of our children, and we will leave you to conduct the education of your children in any way you think fit." He thought the Roman Catholics were fairly treated by the bill. If adult education could be carried out, so be it; but he did not think it would succeed. Let them provide a simple education, and let those who desired a higher class of education pay for it.

Mr PEARCE thought it clear that the bill would pass its second reading, possibly without a dissentient voice. He would touch upon only one principle which he thought the one fundamental principle in the measure—the assistance of denominational schools throughout the country. He believed the aided school clauses wruld be or should be carried. He approved of the giving of religious education in schools, because they well knew when it was left to parents it was, in a great many cases, entirely neglected. He knew the denominational schools would not be for some years established with success, except in large •centres of population, and he thought the Government were wise in availing themselves of the advantages of those schools already in existence. He thought it woald not be right to ignore the prayer of the petitions which had been presented to the House bearing on the subjeet of denominational teaching. He advised the House not to go into committee with the foregone determination to

alter if not to destroy some of its most vital parts. ''Mr BUCKLAND said his opinions were opposed to a great many members who had spoken. The great bone of contention was whether they should have a secular or a denominational teaching. He did not think it right that they should endeavor to force upon the district from which he came, a system of education which they had already abolished. He thought the provincial systems were the very thing for them to adopt on this subject. So far as raising money he would at all times deprive provincial institutions of levying rates for raising money; that was a power which should be reserved for the House. It would have been better for the colony if they had always done so. He hoped the Wellington education bill, introduced by the hon member for the Hutt, would pass, which that hon member feared would, as those whom the gods love, die young. He hoped it would not be so, but that the bill would pass through the House and live a long life. The inhabitants of Wellington should have any system which they thought best for them, and so should other districts. He agreed with Mr Bryce that the bill was an expensive and complicated one. To a certain extent he agreed with Mr Haughton, that it would be unwise to over-educate the people, because it might have the effect of unfitting men for labor. He thought it was a matter of time when cooperation would supersede the system of paying wages. He would not teach all the children the arts and sciences, but he would educate them—develope their brain, because he believed by doing so they were developing the resources of the country. The examples of Broadhead, and the Communism of France, proved that a new system of education—an entirely new system of things, must be brought about; the laboring classes were not satisfied with their present position. He had endeavored to discover how it was that we were so over-governed, and his reason was that it was because we had no sentiment in them ; that the more money they could get the better they would be. He had been told to-night that the reason was that we had had too many educated men. That, he had discovered, was the reason why we had been plunged into such a state of debt. Mr Bunny had told them that the best thing they had done was the raising of the ten millions, but he very much differed with him about that; he was afraid to look into the future with those matters before him.

Mr ANDREW wished to say a few words on the religious question. Objection had been made to the denominational system on account of increased expense, but there was no reason why the expense should be greater than a secular one. He thought the denominational system of schools would prove most efficient, because they would create a healthy rivalry with the secular schools. With regard to the reading of the scripture he would prefer to see it optional than obligatory. He thought the state would do well to avail itself of those schools in which religion or morality are taught. He would say a few words on model and high schools. There were many among us who could not avail themselves of the primary or public schools, and yet had not sufficient means to pay for their admittance to the high schools. The hon member for Wakatipu had asserted that they might by making them a highly educated population, make them a nation of educated paupers, and that there would be no one to clean the boots. He thought that if they educated the people they might safely leave such a people to find a means of emancipation from anything like paupery. We were now incurring immense liabilities ; and it might possibly happen that our anticipations of last year might not be realised. However that might be, they were about to leave to future generations something that would be very much more valuable than any kind of property —a good means of obtaining education.

Mr M'LEOD was of opinion that the bill was too complicated. They should provide merely elementary education. He thought it would be as well to use the old machinery for taxing the people—by means of the customs, &c. Our experience of Provincial Governments was that they had done their work —had run their course —and should be abolished. He thought they had not arrived at that period when they could dispense with the clergy. We owed much to them in the past, and we would be liksly to owe much more to them in the future. He had been in favor of a secular system, but he thought the Premier could not do better than follow the Otago and Nelson systems particularly the latter. One thing had been overlooked, namely, that the very best systems of teaching that had ever existed were religious systems—in all ages. The Catholics had done good work; if nowhere else certainly in this country. They owed a great deal to the Yicar-General of Auckland ; no one in this country had done so much for the education of the country, and particularly the northern part of the colony. Instead of denouncing the education of the Catholics we might point with pride, and exultation to the education taught by the ladies of Auckland, and much of the results were chiefly owing to the teaching of the Sisters of Mercy. He must not forget, either, the efforts of Bishop Selwyn. He mentioned these matters to prove the benefits of religious education. He hoped there would be no compulsory clauses, in the bill when it left the hands of the committee.

Mr WOOD thought the Government were entitled to the congratulations they had received for having launched the measure in so successful a manner as to ensure no opposition to its second reading. He would also congratulate the House for having entirely abstained from making the discussion of the bill a party one. Last session he would have opposed such a measure, because at that time he thought the provinces the proper parties to

undertake such matters; but times were changed. The legislation of last session had taken away the functions of the provinces, and their occupation was now entirely gone. He only hoped that the new order of things would prove as successful as had the provincial system. That system had made the roads and bridges of the colony, and he could only hope that the new colonial policy would prove as successful. An hon. member who professed to have paid a great deal of attention to the bill, told them that this was not an expensive bill, but if it were not a sham—if it were intended to carry it ou t —it could be nothing else but an expensive machinery. He believed in a purely secular system. He thought they had no right to compel the people to dip their hands into their pockets to maintain this expensive, this luxurious system of education. The compulsory system might do very well for thicklypopulated districts, but it would not do for thinly-peopled districts. In such districts to compel settlers to send their children distances over bush roads was preposterous. They would not only require the officers appointed under the bill; they would require a staff of nursemaids in addition. A point not touched upon by other members was the power given to the Governor. If they were to give the Governor those great powers conferred by the bill, they might as well shorten it at once, and give the Governor all the power. The bill gave the Governor power to appoint officers and determine their salaries. He thought that power should be reserved by the House. He would vote for the second reading, but he hoped that it would come out of the committee with the machinery so much reduced as to give a system of education of that simple kind which everybody must understand, and which would entirely relieve the House of any responsibility with respect to religion and the reading of the Holy Scripture.

Mr MERVYN said at the time of his election to the House there was no discussion on the matter of education ; the Otago system met all the requirements of that province, but since that a different state of things had arisen —a considerable amount of opposition had grown up to the Otago system. He could tell the House that he would vote for no measure that would destroy that system. He objected, like a great many other members, to the constitution of the boards. The objections to the provincial boundaries he thought could not hold water. He thought the provincial systems of education would do much more for the education of the people than any other. He thought the existence of the large educational reserves would prove an insuperable objection to the employment of any other than the provincial system of boundaries. The hon member for the Hutt, and other members, were utterly opposed to the bill in respect to the school committees, but he did not at all agree with that opinion. He believed that was the beat feature in the bill. If they wanted to make the system successful they must secure the hearty co-operation of the people in the working of the bill. He regretted that the Government should have attempted to establish different systems of religion, and thought it better to eliminate from the bill all religious teaching. He found in the Wellington Education Bill a clause which they might very well copy. He had no objection to religious instruction being imparted if it were imparted entirely separate from the instruction which ought to be imparted in schools. If the denominational system were established we would simply be educating and bringing up the youth of the colonyin a very improper way. We would be bringing up one portion one way, and another portion another. He would like to see the youth of the colony moulded into one, if we were ever to become a great nation. The Colonial Secretary had stated that the bill solved the difficulty. He believed it was only the creation of the difficulty. Immediately this bill became law the Presbyterian element in his district, being very strong, would establish denominational schools in his district, where there were very few Catholic children, and they would be obliged to go to these schools. The Government ought to take the example of the history of the past. The system of Ireland had been found to be successful, where no religious difficulty had sprung up, except on the part of the bigots of England. He would simply say that if the bill passed this session—he did not think it would—he hoped it would place the inhabitants of the country on one common footing, and that it would impart a sound system of education throughout the colony. Mr FOX moved the adjournment of the debate on the understanding that when it was resumed he should make his reply. He did not intend to make any lengthened statement on that occasion. The Government would be prepared- to adopt many of the suggestions offered; he would make known those portions of the bill the Government would be bound to maintain, and those which they would waive. He thought the course he proposed to take would meet the wishes of the House. He would propose the adjournment of the debate till next Thursday, when he would make a few remarks in reply, and would propose, immediately, that the House should go into committee, so that it would make considerable progress before the close of the day's proceedings. EVIDENCE FURTHER AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Wednesday next. WELLINGTON EDUCATIONAL RESERVES BILL. The House went into committee on this bill. Some of the clauses, iucluding confiscated lands, in the operation of the bill, met with considerable opposition from Wi Parata, who considered it would be inflicting a great injustice to include in the confiscated lands that belonging to innocent persons. They had been told that there was but one law for the European and the Maori, but from what he saw by the acts passed by the House there seemed to be one law for the English and

another for the Maori. He wished to see the clauses postponed, so that a thorough investigation should take place, simply for the sake of doing justice. The House must be made aware that the passing of the bill as it stood would grieve the native race in both islands of New Zealand. This bill was taking land from them for educational purposes, while there were reserves which had been given to the Europeans by the natives for educational purposes only occupied by cattle and sheep. Why did they not utilise those lands before taking others ? The natives rejoiced at the state of peace which at present existed as much as the Government did, and it would be better to postpone this motion for the adoption of conciliatory measures; if this course were not adopted it might be the means of the renewal of hostilities in certain districts. Taiaroa supported this view, with the object of coming to a just settlement of the matter. He complained that the great, difficulty experienced by the Maori members was that the acts were not translated into their language. A very important measure—the Education Bill —they knew nothing at all about. On a division the second clause, dealing with confiscated lands, was postponed. The chairman then reported the bill with amendments, and obtained leave to sit again on Wednesday next. The Election Petitions Act Amendment Bill was postponed for a week, and the Christchurch City Council Borrowing Bill was passed through committee, read a third time, and passed. Notices of motion having been given, the remaining business on the paper was postponed and at ten minutes past one the House adourned. Tuesday, September 12. The Speakee took the chair at half-past two o'clock. NELSON GAS BILL. This bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed next day. PETITIONS. Mr Studholme presented a petition with reference to the railway in the neighborhood of Woodend, Canterbury. Mr Karslake presented a similar petition from the Malvern district in the same province. Mr Haughton presented a petition from John Morgan, of Wanganui; also one from certain Roman Catholic inhabitants of Charleston and Brighton, West Coast, with reference to education. Mr Macandrew presented a petition from certain persons in Otago on land compensation. Mr Harrison presented a petition from licensed victuallers on the West Coast. Mr Hunter presented a petition from 1600 inhabitants of Wellington. Mr Calder presented a petition from certain Soman Catholics with reference to education, as also did Mr White, Mr O'Conor, Mr Shepherd, and Mr Hall from the Eoman Catholics of their respective districts. NEW MEMBER. Mr Bolleston, member for Avon, took the oath and his seat. PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE. Mr T. KELLY brought up the report of the Petitions Committee on the petition of John Kerr, of Waimea, Nelson, praying for compensation in consequence of errors in the quantity of land contained in his Crown grant; the committee reported that the compensation offered to the petitioner by the Provincial Council was sufficient to satisfy his claims. Also, the report of the committee on the petition of John Dick, of Dunedin, newspaper proprietor, complaining that undue preference has been given to certain other newspapers in the matter of Government advertisements, and praying for redress; the committee reported that they did not consider it desirable to recommend any interference in the acts of the Executive. Also, the report of the committee on the petition of Alexander Svend Dreyer, of Nelson, for compensation for loss sustained by him in consequence of a Crown Grant, the issue of which was recommended by Public Petitions Committee of. last session, being still withheld from him; the committee reported that the petitioner was entitled to the award of last session, but to nothing fureher. Also, the report of the committee upon the petition of 57 Roman Catholic inhabitants of Oamaru, in favor of a denominational system of education ; the committee reported that as the subject matter of the petition was under the consideration of the House, they could make no recommendation. PAPERS. Mr GISBORNE laid upon the table a number of papers and returns. THE MOTFEKA ELECTION CASE. Mr BRANDON applied for leave to adjourn the proceedings in this inquiry, for the purpose of enabling the sitting member to procure witnesses. Leave was given to the committee to adjourn until the 18th instant. VACCINATION BILL. The report on this bill was agreed to, and it was read a third time and passed. JUSTICES PROTECTION ACT AMENDMENT BILL The report of a committee of the whole on this bill was adopted, and it was read a third time and passed. CONVICTS FORFEITURES BILL. This bill was committed, reported to the House without amendment, read a third time and passed. MARRIED WOMEN'S PROPERTY BILL. Mr FOX, in moving the second reading of thiß bill, said the subject was one that had created considerable interest in various parts of the world of late years, and had formed the subject of legislation in that House on two or three occasions. In 1860 an Act was passed by the General Assembly of New Zealand providing for the cases of women who were deserted by their husbands, and provision was made which gave protection to the earnings of the wife from that time forth, so that her husband could not leave her, and then come Wk and rob her of whatever property she had acquired in his absence. Last year a

draft bill was brought before the House for the purpose of giving independent rights to single women, which proved, on examination, to be an exceedingly one-sided proposal. While it gave the wife very large independent rights, it gave the husband nothing whatever to compensate for it. The bill was referred to a committee of both Houses, and came out in a form which gave married women something like their proper right, and was doubtless, as far as it went, an improvement on the existing law. At the same time, while discussing the matter in this Colony, it was being discussed in the Imperial Parliament, and the bill that was there introduced contained many points which our bill contained, but instead of dealing only with the circumstances of a woman who had been deserted by her husband, it imposed obligations upon her. In the event of her becoming possessed of property, it compelled her, in case of sickness, to maintain him, while we got no return for the privilege. This bill provided that bank stock, shares, &c, and savings' bank money, should be secured to the wife, though of course if she wished to hand over any such property to her husband — if she found that he was a man who would turn it to account for the benefit of both —she Could do so ; and on the other hand, there were provisions in the bill which prevented her investing the " pudding money" in such a way. Whatever money she had of her own, she was at liberty to do as she liked with, but she was not to take away her husband's money and put it in the bank. Having conferred these rights, she would have to defend any action that might be brought against her in her own name. Then came provisions for protecting the husband. When a man married he was liable, on the marriage day, to be sued for debts contracted by his wife, of which he could not possibly know anything whatever, and thus the marriage day was often rendered a very miserable one. In such cases the wife was still to be sued. By other acts she could throw her husband over, if she thought fit, but now she could not do so, because in the event of her husband or her children becoming sick she was bound to bear her part in support of the domestic establishment, and prevent their becoming a burden on the parish. There were various other provisions, some of which were not in the English act. Mr HALL had not had the bill long in his possession, and was not prepared to discuss its merits. He would like to know whether the bill went the length of conferring upon married women separate rights to their property, both real and personal. (Mr Fox : Yes.) He thought the House was taken at a disadvantage in being asked to discuss a bill like this without having had full opportunity of looking through its contents. There being such a great amount of business on the order paper he did not wish to offer any objection to getting through the business, but he hoped the hon. the Premier would not offer any objection to the discussion of the bill at a future stage. Mr FOX said he did not intend to hurry the bill through. Mr SHEPHERD thought the bill should not be passed without receiving the greatest consideration from the House. No doubt there were many good points in it, but he thought it should be delayed, because he saw a possibility of creditors being defrauded under some of its provisions. He proposed the adjournment of the debate. Mr FOX hoped the hon. gentleman would allow the bill to proceed. The bill was read a secsnd time, and ordered to be committed that day week. MESBAGE PROM THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. The SPEAKER announced that he had received a message from the Legislative Council, transmitting the Prisoners Maintenance Expenses Bill with an amendment. The amendment was ordered to be considered tomorrow. Also, the Dunedin and Port Chalmers Bill, with certain amendments. The amendments were ordered to be considered next day. Also, the Coasting Trade Regulations Bill, without any amendment. HIGHWAY BOARDS BILL. Mr GISBORNE moved the second reading of this bill, and explained its scope in detail. He said it was altogether a bill to put highway boards in a more effective and better position than they were in at present. TAIAROA requested that the consideration of the matter might be allowed to stand over. It bore on a matter on which he had already spoken when he asked for the appointment of a council for carrying out such matters as these among the Maoris, and which had been agreed to. The laws had not as yet been made known to the Maoris. When the missionaries came to New Zealand, they began to teach the Maoris, but at present they were left in a state between ignorance and knowledge. The old chiefs did not know of the existence of all these laws regarding land, and it should be left to the young men who were growing up to decide upon these matters. In the treaty of Waitangi, in consideration of the natives giving up their entire sovereignty, the Queen preserved to them their rights over their land, their fisheries, and their forests, and if it were urged that this bill should pass as it was he would urge that the treaty of Waitangi be laid on the table of the House, that members might know what its contents were. He would like to see this measure referred to the council he had moved for, in order that it might prevent any trouble arising. Mr CARRINGTON thought where Crown Grants were issued to Maoris they should pay rate 3 the same as Europeans. They used the roads as much as the Europeans, and he would put it to hon members to say whether it was right that they should use those roads without paying for them. Mr BUNNY thought the Maoris were dealt with very leniently under the act, which in many sections specially exempted them

from its operation. The natives paid nothing at all unless, as provided by the fifth clause, the Government of the day certified that any particular native land was capable of paying taxation. He thought the bill was a right step for doing away with the provincial councils. He would like to see a clause introduced in the bill enabling the boards to raise money upon special rates for the carrying out of great works, such as erecting bridges, &c. He believed the measure was one of those sound, practical measures which would do much towards the settlement and development of the country.

WI PARATA said the existing state of the laws with reference to the Maoris should not be disturbed. He thought the laws should be framed in as easy a manner as possible for the Maoris for the next few years. Mr KELLY thought the Government should see that the existing boards were so constituted as to be in a position to properly carry out the provisions of this bill. He thought, for the purposes of the bill, that instead of the powers being conferred on small boards several should be united. He had no doubt the act would be beneficial, and he looked upon it as a step in the right direction. With regard to borrowing money, that, he thought, was a power that should be conferred on large boards. The rating of the Maoris would be found to be a very difficult matter, and he did not see his way to rating tbem at all.

Mr HALL did not blame the Government for not having brought in what had been called a general measure, because he knew what had been the fate of previous general measures; at the same time he would have preferred that the bill should be more comprehensive. Still the time would come when the House would have to lay down a law for the construction of these boards throughout the colony. There should be two classes of boards —one for managing matters in small districts, and the other a general board, having power to borrow for large works. He was sorry that the Government had not answered the question of the Provincial Government of Canterbury, asking them to define the proper functions of Provincial Councils ; then they would have known in which direction they could legislate, and in which they could not. It was highly undesirable and improper that half the legislat ; ®n of the country should be done by one body and half by another. The bill was one that he, to a certain extent, approved of. The Maori members had for a long time requested to be placed on an equality with the. Europeans, but they must be told that that right brought with it a share of their responsibilities. The bill was one in the principle of which he agreed, though he had objections to it. Mr EITZHERBERT entirely agreed with the hon member who had just sat down, although he did not agree with one provision in the bill which was that unfenced lands belonging to Maoris should not be taxed. That he alto gether objected to; part of the hardship of the case was that the land was not fenced. He hoped no law would be passed which allowed any large holder of land to be exempt from payment of taxes. Mr CURTIS agreed with the hon member for the Heathcbte in his regret that the Government had not brought in a more comprehensive measure. He would point out that the fifth part of the bill was too cumbrous for the possible requirements of the boards. It provided that in cases of invalidity of elections the members of the board might go to the Supreme Court, and apply for a rule nisi, which, after following the forms of the Court, would result in an expense of about £IOO. That was a trouble and expense they were not likely to go to, and he hoped this part of the bill would be simplified. Mr COLLINS would support the bill, which hethoughtjfollowed in the steps of one that was introduced into the House three years ago, and which the Premier did not entirely agree with at that time.

Mr FOX explained that he had taken every pains to secure the passing of the bill referred to by the hon member, and moreover that he (Mr Collins) himself was at that time a strong supporter of Government, and it followed that the bill was brought into the House with his entire concurrence and assent, so that if he (Mr Fox) had changed his opinions so also had the hon member.

Mr THOMSON said the bill met all objections to the present system but one —it did not give the power of borrowing. He should like to see that power conferred on road boards in proportion to their size. KATENE said his objection to the bill was that supposing a man had only two acres of land, and those two acres were taken from him for rates, what means would he have of living. He thought the laws should be framed in an easy manner for the Maoris, because they were not entirely clear about their meaning. He believed the bill to be a just one, but let them first put down present evils among the Maoris before they were called upon to pay equal taxes with the Europeans. At present they paid taxes by an offering of their labor (in a manner described by the hon member). They did their best to pay taxes ; they did not wish to avoid them. He would like to see these matters peaceably settled. The Maori members came to the House for the purpose of expressing their ideas on such matters, and he hoped their objections would be heard with consideration. Mr BUCKLAND thought the measure was not sufficiently comprehensive. The bill thrown out a few years ago was a good one, but contained the vicious principle of anticipating probable requirements. If they could get a copy of the Adelaide Act bearing on the subject it would considerably simplify the matter. Mr SHEPHERD thought the measure such a one as was much required throughout the colony. There was no doubt that if the Go-

vernment had not already abolished provincial institutions they would soon, do so, and it was their duty to bring in some measure to substitute them. If Mr Macandrew's resolutions were not carried he felt convinced that they would have to introduce some measure in the direction of shire councils. He would support the bill, because he looked upon it as a straw" to show which way the wind was blowing—the direction in which legislature was required in New Zealand.

Mr M'LEOD agreed with all thinkers on the subject that the inhabitants of rural districts were the best judges of what was re* I quired in their neighborhood, and in this light he looked upon the bill as a good measure. ; The hon member gave a recital of the systems of Government in Canada and many of the American stateß. He thought the bad results apprehended by the natives from the working i of the bill did not exist at all. The Ngapuhis, and other numerous tribes, would have a considerable voice in these road boards, merely on account of their numbers, if for no other reason, and he would do his best to advise those natives to accept the act, although he did not suppose that the Government would ever make any attempt to inflict an unjust tax upon them. He would reiterate his opinion that all taxation should come through the Customs. In Nova Scotia the revenue was so collected; one-third being appropriated for roads, one-third for education, and so on. With regard to what had been said about the Maoris not paying for road rates he thought the charge was an unjust one. The Ngapuhis paid between forty and fifty thousand pounds per annum into the revenue, and what did they get in return —absolutely next to nothing. The amount the district north of Auckland got was—for Mongonui, £27, and for the Bay of Islands nothing at all, while an amount of £7OO was paid to one board in Auckland—the Parnell board. The hon member explained the disadvantage under which the Bay of Islands suffered, and claimed that the General Goverment should give them more consideration than they had received from the Provincial Government; in fact, he hoped to see the Provincial Governments abolished altogether. He thought the bill a very good substitute for them, and would do all he could to pass it through the House. Mr GILLIES thought the honorable member was like the bird that fouled its own nest. The hon member was a member of the Provincial Council himself when the votes were apportioned. (Mr M'Leod: I always opposed them.) He would support the bill, not because it was perfect, but because he believed it was a good one. He cautioned the hon member, Mr Thomson, not to support the bill under the impression that it conferred powers on the Provincial Council: on the contrary, it took away certain of their powers. With regard to the natives in the Bay of Islands, the hon member for that district should have told the House that they most willingly paid their share towards the making of roads ; he had never had any difficulty in getting them to do that. The further discussion of the motion was then deferred. EXPLANATION. Mr Vogel, before entering upon the financial statement, offered a further explanation in reference to the question asked a few days previously by the hon member for Collingwood, referring to matters contained in the Controller's reporti Mr COLLINS said if the answer given by the Colonial Treasurer was unsatisfactory, this further explanation was still more so. It confirmed him in his belief that the money advanced by the Comptroller had been improperly applied—applied in a manner that could not be properly characterised in parliamentary language. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. Mr VOGEL then moved the House into Committee of Supply, and having delivered the financial statement (a summary of which will be found elsewhere), he moved that the chairman should at that stage report progress, and ask leave to sit again. Mr STAFFORD pointed out that the hon gentleman had pursued a vsry unusual course in resuming his seat without proposing some resolution to the House. A discussion upon Parliamentary form ensued, and ultimately, in order to place a motion before the House, Mr VOGEL proposed the first item on the estimates —£2550 for public domains and buildings. Mr HALL rose to ask the hon. gentleman for some information upon a point which he had not made quite clear, and which was one of considerable importance to the provinces. He had announced that changes in the pay ments to provinces were to be made. What date did the Government propose that these changes should commence from ? Mr VOGEL: The whole of the financial propositions will date from 30th June last. The question that the Chairman do report progress was then put and agreed to. Mr VOGEL then announced that the Government would be prepared to take the discussion on the statement on Tuesday next. THE HIGHWAYS BILL. The discussion on this bill was resumed by Mr Stewaed, who pointed out the injustice and unfairness of making special exemptions for the Maori race. Mr J. Kelly disagreed with the views expressed by the hon. member with reference to the operation of the clause referring to the natives. Mr G. M'Lban thought the bill was neither one thing nor another. He agreed with the hon. member for Heathcote that the bill was not so comprehensive a one as was desirable in the existing state of political matters. Mr Webstbb concurred with the views of the last speaker, but pointed

out that there was a great injustice done to pastoral tenants by the provisions of the bill, who were called upon to contribute in a way Which would materially benefit the freeholder, but not the pastoral tenant, who was called upon to pay an equal share with the freeholder in the construction of roads which he could only use for the term of his lease. Mr Reid approved of the bill, because it intended that every portion of the community should pay a fair share of the taxation. He did not agree that the runholders should receive exceptional consideration. They used the roads as much as any one else, but he would admit that some difference should be made in the charges for construction. He was glad the road boards were to receive such conBideration. A difficulty in the way of grouping districts was, as they found in Otago, that where one district levied rates for the making of roads, the next district made no roads at all. Mr Betcb expressed his dissatisfaction with the bill, because it did not meet the present requirements of the country. He would vote for the second reading of the billon the principle that though it only went half way towards the desired end, it was better than no act at all. He considered the exemption of the native lands very unfair. Mr Mebvyn pointed out an important oversight in the bill, which made no provision for the making of roads in the goldfields districts. If some amendment wore not made, the whole of the moiety which should of right go to those districts, would be appropriated by the settled districts. It was felt as a great hardship that the special taxation which the gold districts had to pay was used for the construction of roads in other districts. Mr Wood said the discussion of the bill was premature ; it was dealing with an order of things which had been swept away. If they had not had the an. nouncement of those important matters of which they had been made aware by the speech of the Colonial Treasurer, they might have gone on with this bill, but the state of things had been so materially altered that he would suggest the advisability of postponing the discussion until they knew in what form the proposals of the Colonial Treasurer would come out of the committee. It was clear from the cheers they had heard on the delivery of the Treasurer's speech that the policy he foreshadowed was favorable to the views of the House, and that provincial institutions were to be entirely swept away. Under these circumstances he would strongly advise the postponement of the measure. Mr Bathgate supported the bill. Mr Mubeat entirely agreed with the views of the hon member for Parnell (Mr Wood). He hoped the Government would not press the bill. He would prefer to see a system of counties instituted. Mr J. B. Bbown thought the bill would interfere materially with those provinces which had taken care to make roads throughout its districts. It would take away from them all power to regulate or appoint road boards. It placed a great deal of power in the hands of the Superintendents of each province, which should be delegated to the executive or some other body ; it was not desirable that so much power should be placed in the hands of one man. Mr KabsLake, as a pastoral tenant, differed with the views of Mr Webster. The runholders must give way to the increasing requirements of the country, and take their share in th e responsibilities and difficulties which all classes were called upon to bear for the general advancement and prosperity of the country. Mr Gisbobne, in replying to the arguments of hon members, did not think the passing of the bill should be delayed on account ef the statements made by the Colonial Treasurer. It did not increase or perpetuate Provincial institutions ; it rather , curtailed them, and he thought that changes of the kind should come in as gentle a form as possible—they should not be too spasmodic. Therefore, he thought the House should adopt this " step in the right direction," as it had been called. As regarded the natives he thought the allusion to the treaty of Waitangi quite irrelevant; that treaty stipulated that the natives should be treated on an equality with the Europeans. If that condition were rigidly enforced the natives would hardly be treated so leniently as it was the custom to do. With regard to the power to borrow, they recognised the remarks of some hon members, and would introduce clauses enabling the boards to borrow on certain conditions. The bill was then read a second time and ordered to be committed that day week. NELSON LEASING- BILL. The report of the committee on this bill was agreed to, and the bill read a third time and passed. BELIGIOUS AND CHARITABLE TEUSTS BILL. Mr FOX applied to be allowed to withdraw

this bill from the paper, for the reason that having charge of the Education Bill he would not be able to give this measure the consideration it deserved. BAKEES AND MILLERS BILL. Mr GISBORNE said the object of this bill was to prevent the selling of bread under weight, and also to prevent adulteration. The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committee next day. PETITIONS COMMITTEE. WT PARATA moved that the name of Wiremu Katene be added to the select committee on public petitions. His reason was that by placing a Maori member on that committee he would be able to explain matters connected with the Maori petitions. Agreed to. The House adjourned at a quarter past twelve o'clock. Wednesday, September 13. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o'clock. NELSON GAS BILL. The proceedings of the Select Committee on this bill not having been circulated, the order i of the day was postponed. PETITIONS. Mr Eox and Mr Clabk each presented two petitions in favor of the passing of a Permisi sive Bill for the prevention of drunkenness j and crime. I PAPERS. Mr G-ISBORNE laid on the table a number of j papers and returns. THE WESTLAND DEBT. Mr HARRISON asked the Colonial Secretary if the Government had any objection to lay upon the table the papers and correspondence in connection with the arbitration of the Canterbury and Westland Debt ? The House was already aware of the circumstances connected with the appointment of the arbitrators, and with the nature of their award. A day or two ago, in the County Council of Westland, the Chairman in his place in the Council made use of remarks which would lead to the belief that the whole business had been mismanaged by him (Mr Harrison). He did not think it right that these statements should be made in an official manner without his having an opportunity of contradicting them. Mr GISBORNE promised that a portion of the correspondence would he laid on the table. There were certain portions which it would not be necessary or advisable to lay on the table. PBESS MESSAGES. Mr HARRISON asked the Commissioner of Telegraphs if tbe Government would cause the offices of the principal telegraph stations to be kept open for the transmission of press messages until ten o'clock p.m. on the sitting days of the House ? Mr YOG-EL said the Government desired very much to facilitate the transmission of messages recording the proceedings of the House, but there were departmental objections : it would be imposing on the clerks an additional duty which they would not be able to bear, Besides, it was not the mere appointment of one or two clerks ; the Government would have to despatch additional operators to all parts of the country. The Government would go this far—if any person wished to send a long message he might give notice before five o'clock in the afternoon, and an operator would be appointed to receive it at the particular station for which it was intended. If the telegram were presented before nine o'clock at night the operator would be permitted to send 400 words, but aioer that hour they must be limited to 150 to 200 words. SAN PEANOISCO EXHIBITION. Mr T. KELLY asked the Colonial Secretary whether the Government intended to send a collection of New Zealand flax fibre to the San Francisco Industrial Exhibition ? Mr GISBORNE said it wa3 now too late to send exhibits from New Zealand. The chairman of the .Flax Commission had received a letter from Mr J. S. Macfarlane, of Auckland, who stated that he had sent many articles of New Zealand produce to the exhibition, and had kindly offered to place the letter containing the award of the exhibition in the hands of the Government, and it would then be placed on the table of the House. MONET OEDEE TELEGBAMS. Mr HAUGHTON asked the Colonial Treasurer whether his attention had been called to the desirabilty of reducing the cost of transmission of money order telegrams ? Mr YOGEL said it was the intention of the Government to reduce the charge. The results of the system were so satisfactory that they felt quite justified in making the suggested reduction. PIBST READINGS. The following bills were read a first time: — A bill to consolidate the law relating to the I sale, letting, and occupation of waste lands of the Crown within the province of Otago, which was referred to the Waste Lands Committee ; ! a bill to amend the law relating to unanimity ' of juries, which was ordered to be read a I second time on Eriday; a bill to confer bor- ! rowing power on the Dunedin City Corpora- . tion, to enable the corporation to acquire the existing water and gas works, which was I ordered to be read a second time on Wednesj day ; a bill to authorise the Governor to grant endowments of land for primary education out of the confiscated lands in the province of Taranaki, and also to issue grants for lands already reserved from sale for education purposes, which was ordered to be read a I second time on Wednesday next; a bill j to encourage the planting of forest trees j in the province of Canterbury, which was ordered to be read a second time on Eriday j

a bill to amend the Sinking Funds Acts, which was ordered to be read a second time on Friday; a bill to authorise the issue of land scrip to Frederic Alonzo Carrington, which was ordered to be read a second time next day; a bill intituled "An Act to provide for the enforcement of claims against the Crown in New Zealand, which was ordered to be read a second time on Friday ; a bill to encourage improvements by advances of public money, which was ordered to be read a second time on Thursday week ; a bill for the further amendment and consolidation of the law relating to Goldfields, which was referred to the Goldfields Committee; a bill to repeal "The Bay of Islands Settlement Act, 1870," and to make other provisions in lieu thereof, which was ordered to be read a second time next Thursday. CASE OF MB SMYTHIES. Mr STAFFORD moved that, in accordance with the recommendation of the Public Petitions Committee, Mr Henry Smythies be heard at the bar of the House. He explained that in bringing forward the motion he had been actuated by the feeling that as a matter of justice this opportunity should be given to Mr Smythies, who believed he had substantial grievances to complain of, and never having an opportunity of explaining those grievances would apply to the House session after session for redress. He (Mr Stafford) thought the House would only' be fulfilling those high duties with which it was entrusted by allowing Mr Smythies to be heard at the bar ; it then might take any further action which it thought fit. It had been suggested to him that if Mr Smythies were allowed to appear at the bar the legal profession should also be heard. He thought that was perfectly fair, and he should offer no objection to such a course.

Mr FOX did not wish to oppose the motion of the hon member, or to take any action in the opposite direction. The hon gentleman knew that he had taken an active part in the case, and he thought it right to say whyhe did not intend to place himself in a position to support or oppose the motion before the House. His reason for the opposition he had given to Mr Smythies formerly was that he believed at the time that there was a great scandal connected with his history. At that time the legal profession had no corporate existence whatever, and the matter was taken up by a few members of tbe profession. He himself, as an old member of the bar, though not practising at the time, took upon himself to oppose Mr Smythies practising in the colony of New Zealand, but since that time the legal profession had made themselves a corporate body, and were now in a position to defend themselves. Although in the present case he would offer no opposition, he did very much object to the idea which was becoming general, that persons who were aggrieved by the action of the Legislature in matters affecting themselves, privately and publicly, or because the Public Petitions Committee made a recommendation of the kind, should be heard at the bar of the House. If legal gentlemen who had been refused permission to practise in the courts by the judges were to appear at the bar of the House, members of the medical profession, or of other bodies, might expect to do so too. With this protest he would offer no objection to the motion, but would reserve to himself the right to take any future action he might think proper.

Mr REYNOLDS moved an amendment that Mr Smythies should be heard on any day not a regular sitting day. Mr Hatjghton, Mr Stewabd, and Mr MACANDBEW very strongly supported the motion.

Mr WOOD quite agreed with the Premier that the House should set its face against hearing members of any profession at the bar of their House. The Petitions Committee, of which he was a member, had heard Mr Smythies in support of his petition and were of opinion that he had made out a prima facie case to be heard at the bar of the House. He had suffered through the action of the Legislature in passing the act of 1869, and it was due to Mr Smythies as a matter of justice that he should be heard at the bar.

Mr GILLIES said he had been instructed by the New Zealand Law Society to intimate that they desired to watch the proceedings, and that if Mr Smythies was allowed to appear at the bar, they would desire to be heard also. He would therefore move an amendment that the New Zealand Law Society be heard by counsel at the bar of the House.

Mr REYNOLDS withdrew his amendment.

Mr STAFFORD expressed his gratification that the motion had met with such general support. He was quite prepared for the objections of the hon member for Dunedin. He (Mr Stafford) was somewhat unfortunate in always encountering the opposition of the hon member, but it must be a gratification to him to find that he stood alone on that occasion.

On Mr Gillies' amendment being put—that the New Zealand Law Society be also heard at the bar, if they think fit—a division was called for, the result of which was as follows : —Ayes, 38 ; noes, 18. The amendment was therefore carried, and with the addition of the words, the motion was agreed to. It was then agreed that Mr Smythieß should be heard at the bar of the House on Wednesday next. BEPOBTING ME SMYTHIES. Mr CREIGHTON, without notice, moved that the statement of Mr Smythies, or any other such statements made at the bar, be not reported in " Hansard." He thought persons who wished to have their statements reported should employ private reporters for the purpose, and pay the expenses themselves.

Mr STAFFORD altogether objected to the bringing on of motions without notice. If the practice were permitted they would be liable to be taken by surprise at any time. The SPEAKER was not prepared to give any ruling on matters connected with " Hansard." He was of opinion, until very recently, that the officers connected with that publication were subject to the control of the Speaker, but he had since learned that that control was entirely vested in the Reporting Debates Committee. If the control had rested with him, he certainly would not permit the statement to appear. Mr CREIG-HTON having obtained the sense of the House on the matter, would withdraw his motion. XTJNATIC ASYLUMS. Mr ANDREW moved the appointment of a select committee to inquire into and report upon the expediency of establishing a general asylum for the reception and treatment of persons of unsound mind from all parts of New Zealand ; or of making any further arrangement by which greater uniformity and usefulness may be secured in such institutions in different parts of the country. Such committee to consist of Messrs Steward, Parker, Harrison, Curtis, Carrington, Reader Wood, and the mover ; with power to call for persons and papers, and to confer -with a committee of the Legislative Council; three to form a quorum, and to report this day three weeks. A lengthy, interesting, and instructive debate ensued upon the motion, which our limited space precludes us from publishing. The motion was agreed to. GOLD DUTY. The discussion of the question that the gold duty should be reduced to one shilling per ounce was resumed by Mr Shepherd, who urged that the duty should be reduced. There were other sources of revenue that should now be employed. The diggers had been taxed long enough : they had been the means of preserving the country from bankruptcy, and, he thought, the time had come when the House should concede a small measure of justice to them. They should not select one particular class for taxation ; that was opposed to all political economy. Mr Yogel thought the time for making such a proposition was very inopportune. Mr Harrison, as a goldfields member, was entirely opposed to any reduction; there had been no protest on the part of the miners themselves. The question was warmly argued, fro. and con, by the goldfields members, something like a " scene" occurring between the Westland members, Mr White assailing Mr Harrison for his treachery to the mining industry. The Otago members were in favor of the reduction, Mr Haughton, Mr Macandrew, and Mr Reed warmly advocating the reduction. Mr Reynolds thought the miners had received their fair share of consideration; they had created a great amount of damage in Otago by leaving their holes unfilled. Mr Collins largely sympathised with those who asked to reduce the taxation on gold. Mr Tribe thought the matter should be referred to the Goldfields Committee, but the House rejected this proposition. Mr Yogel urged the House not to assent to the reduction. Mr O'Neill was sorry the Government had seen fit to oppose the motion. They were opposing the wishes of a large part the population. He did not think Mr Reynolds knew anything about the matter at all. He had never been to a diggings. The only time he ever had been known to travel into the interior of the country of Otago was when he went about fifty miles inland with an education bill, and the farmers of the district threatened to drown him. A number of amendments wers proposed, fand ultimately the main question was negatived, the numbers on division being—Ayes, 14 ; Noes, 52. INTESTATE ESTATES BILL. Mr BUNNY moved the second reading of this bill, which provides that the property of intestate personß should be divisible among all the members of a family, instead of going wholly to the next of lan. The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. EVIDENCE ETJBTHEE AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was committed, reported with an amendment, and the consideration of the amendment ordered for next day. WELLINGTON EDUCATIONAL BESEBVES BILL.' This bill was committed, reported to the House with amendments, and the consideration of the amendments ordered for next day. MILLERS AND BAKEES BILL. This bill was committed, and, after some few amendments, was reported to the House. THE SAN EBANCISCO SEBVICE. Mr HALL moved that there be laid upon the table a return for the whole period during which the mail contract with Mr Hezekiah Hall was in operation, showing the time allowed under that contract for the conveyance of mails between New Zealand and San Francisco, and the time actually occupied in such conveyance during each voyage j also, the number of letters, books, and newspapers sent to and received from the. United Kingdom and America, respectively, on each voyage; also, a return of all moneys paid to Mr Hezekiah'Hall for or in connection with the said mail service, and of all moneys paid or payabla to the British or United States Post Office on account of mails conveyed under the contract above mentioned, distinguishing, if practicable, the sums paid or payable on account of transit through the United States, from those paid or payable for conveyance between the United Kingdom and the United States; also, a return of the amount of posts ge collected by or credited to the New Zealand post office, onaccount of mail matter contained in the above mails.

Mr GISBORNE said the return would be furnished, and the motion was agreed to. The House adjourned at twenty-five to one o'clock.

Thtjesdat, Sbptbmbeb 14. The Speakek took the Chair at half-past two o'clock. NELSON GAS BILIi. This order of the day was again postponed. PETITIONS. Mr E. RICHARDSON presented a petition from the mayor and councillors of the borough of Lyttelton. WELLINGTON SPECIAL SETTLEMENTS BILL. Mr CURTIS brought up the report of the "Waste Lands Committee on the above bill, and it was ordered to be committed next day. Also, the report of the committee on the Wellington Waste Lands Bill, and it was ordered to be committed to-morrow. Also, the report of the committee on the Otago Waste Lands Bill, which was ordered to be committed tomorrow. Mr HALL brought up the report of the committee on the Dunedin Waterworks Bill, which was ordered to be read a second time on Tuesday. PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE. Mr T. KELLY brought up the report of the Petitions Committee on the petition of William Rogers, of Maketu, praying for relief in consequence of having had his arm shattered through his gun accidentally exploding while on patrol duty in the Bay of Plenty; the committee recommended that the case was deBerving of consideration, and recommended a pension of one shillling per day. Also, the report of the committee on the petition of 24 members of the Licensed Victuallers' Association of Greymouth, complainingof the unsuitability of the Westland Public House Act, 1869, and praying that a new act may be passed: the committee recommended special legislation by the Assembly. Also, [the report of the committee on the petition of 187 Catholics of the Wellington Province, praying that the Catholic body may receive from the general fund a certain proportion for the support of their denominational schools; the committe reported that as there was a bill before the House dealing with the subject, they did not deem it necessary to offer any opinion upon the matter of the petition. Other petitions, to which were appended a similar recommendation, were'read to the House ; they were from certain Roman Catholicß of Canterbury; from 103 Roman Catholic inhabitants of Alexandra and Waikouaiti; from 124 Roman Catholic inhabitants of Westport, and Addison's Flat; from 110 Roman Catholic inhabitants of Southland ; from 80 Roman Catholic Inhabitants of Staf ford, Waimea; from 279 Roman Catholic inhabitants of Charleston and Brighton, Province of Nelson, Also the report of the committee on the petitions of 254 persons in in Turakina and Rangitikei, in favor of a Permissive Bill, for the suppression of drunkenness and crime ; from 32 female inhabitants and 62 electors and other inhabitants of Port Albert, Auckland ; 1006 inhabitants of Wellington ; the committee recommended the introduction of a measure for the better regulation of the sale of spirituous liquors, INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL. Mr T. L. SHEPHERD asked the Premier whether the Government proposed to take steps for the establishment of an industrial school as a refuge and means of education for destitute and deserted children in the colony ? Mr POX said it was not the intention of the Government to do so. Local bodies had ample means for making the necessary provision, and the matter would be left to them. PETITION OF EEV. MB GEACE. Mr CLARK asked the Colonial Secretary if the Government intended taking any action in the case of the Rev. Mr Grace, with a view to give effect to the recommendation of the Publio Petitions Committee ? Mr GISBORNE said the Public Petitions Committee had given reasons why, in their opinion, there should be a special claim, but unless the House expressed some opinion the Government would not feel itself bound to act on the recommendation. BM. COUET, AKABOA. Mr RHODES asked the Colonial Secretary whether it was the intention of the Government to extend the jurisdiction of the Resident Magistrate of Akaroa to £IOO ? Mr GISBORNE said the highest amount of R.M. jurisdiction was £IOO, and that was only extended to those towns where the business demanded it. The Government thought the jurisdiction at Akaroa might be extended to £SO, and would take steps to have that allowance made. PAPEES. Mr GISBORNE laid on the table a number of papers and returns. CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES. Mr MACANDREW : The resolutions which I am about to propose have been so long on the order paper that I have no doubt those hon. members of this House who take any interest in the matter —and I regret that there are not more present —have already made up their minds fully upon the subject. I believe, therefore, that nothing I may say, or any other member may say, is likely to influence a single vote. Nevertheless, it is proper and fitting that I should endeavor to state the reasons which have impelled mo to submit those proposals—reasons which I venture to hope will warrant this House in acceding to them. In stating those reasons, I shall endeavor to be as concise as possible. I have no doubt that as a private member I shall be open to the charge of presumption in proposing resolutions of this important nature, giving rise to a question that involves the greatest organic change that has ever been proposed in the history of the colony, a question which ought more properly to have been taken up by the Government of the day—an organic change which cannot receive practical effect without the concurrence and co-operation of the Executive Government. However, failing the Ministry of the day taking up this question, I think, that although there are many hon. members in this House who could deal with the subject with more ability, and make a much longer

speech upon it than I can pretend to do, at the same time I feel that no private member has a better right to introduce the question than myself. And for these reasons. lam one of the three oldest members of this House. I may say one of the three original members. I am also an old colonist, who nearly a quarter of a century ago in England and subsequently in the colony took a somewhat active part in the political agitation which led to our present consitution, —that coustitution which I now propose to modify and adapt to the altered circumstances of the colony. It will be seen that I do not propose to interfere with the institutions of the Northern Island, or the Provincial Governments there, and this for various reasons—one is that I am led to believe that the Northern Island is not ripe for provincial fusion, if I may be allowed to use the expression. Another reason is that as a southern member I do not profess to know what are the peculiar wants and requirements of the Northern Island. For example take the native difficulty. That is a question which members from the South necessarily know very little about. I think, therefore, that | in dealing with this subject it is better that I should abstain from interfering in the affairs of that part of the colony. It appears to me that this native difficulty must necessarilyinfluence any proposition respecting constitutional changes in the Northern Island. How far the native difficulty may point to the expediency of a transfusiou of the Northern Island provinces or the reverse, I am unable to say. I shall, therefore, confine my proposals to the provinces of the Middle Island. What I now propose is—That the time has arrived when instead of five provincial latures in the Middle Island, we can manage very well with one. In other words, I think the forty-five members who represent the Middle Island constituencies, in this House, together with one executive officer, can perform the whole duties which now appertain to the Superintendent, of Otago; the Superintendent and Council of Canterbury ; the Superintendent and Council of Nelson ; the Superintendent and Council of Marlborough; and the Chairman and Council of the County Council of Westland. I maintain that the duties which are now performed by five administrative, and 133 legislative functionaries in the Middle Island can be as well, if not better, performed by one administrative and 45 legislative functionaries, while the pecuniary saving effected will be very considerable. Perhaps I may be allowed in order that the House may judge for itself as to the facts of the case to lay before hon members the following figures. At present the County Council of Westland consists of a Chairman and eight members. The Provincial Legislature of Nelson consists of a Superintendent and nineteen Provincial Councillors. Marlborough Council consists of a Superintendent and twenty Provincial Councillors. Canterbury of a Superintendent and thirtynine Provincial Councillors ; and last, and not least, the Otago Legislature consists of a Superintendent and forty-seven Provincial Councillois; making altogether, for the Middle Island, a law-making power of 138 individuals, which I now propose to reduce to forty-six. Now I shall, if the House will permit, call attention to the relative cost of the present system, and that which might be expected under the one I propose to substitute. I find by the last official return made by the Registrar-General, under the authority of the General Government, that the County Council of Westland costs £3072 annually ; the Provincial Legislature of Nelson, £3316 ; the Province of Marlborough the very modest sum of £912; the provincial legislature of Canterbury. £4,155; and the provincial legislature of Otago £10,919; making a total expenditure of £22,374. Those figures represent merely the cost of the legislative and executive bodies in the Middle Island, which by the resolution before the House I propose to consolidate and merge into one single legislature. It will be observed that the most costly of the provincial legislatures is that of the Province of Otago. However, when we reflect upon the extent of the territory, the widely scattered goldfields, the complete organisation that exists under responsible Government with all its ramifications and the multifariousness of its duties, the cost of the provincial legislature, large as it may appear, is not much, if any, more in proportion than that of the other provinces. However, be this as it may, I feel sure that by the proposals I am now about to submit for adoption the legislative and executive functions of the provincial legislature of the Middle Island can be performed for from £3,000 to £4,000 a year. I have not the least doubt that if fairly and honestly managed, that sum will meet all the necessary expenses of the Provincial Legislature of the Middle Island. I take it that that sum would be amply covered by the saving which will accrue in the different departments of the Government, from their being brought under one head, instead of being as at present under five different legislatures. In the waste lands and other departments, considerable saving might be effected, savings quite equal to the cost incurred in maintaining the Executive and Provincial Council upon the scale which these resolutions indicate. Assuming this to be the case, we shall have a clear saving with respect to the political machinery of the Government alone in the Middle Island of upwards of £22,000 a year, which, of course, hon members will at once see is equal to a capital sum of nearly half a million sterling, being absolutely £440,000, at 5 per cent. That is a more I startling point of view as regards this question than it is usually looked at from. I shall now tell you what I shall propose to do with this £22,000 a year. I would propose to construct an inland water and railway communication from Lake Wakatipu, in the Province of Otago, to Cobden, in the Province of Nelson. If honorable members will take the trouble to enquire into the matter, they will find that

the length of this line of communication from one point to the other would be some 300 miles, of which 55 miles would be water communication. Although it is not strictly bearing upon the point, it may, at the same time, be interesting to give the exact figures, and if the House will allow me I shall do so. Assuming that the measures of this session will result in the construction of the Nelson and Cobden line, and the line from Winston to Kingston, we shall have Kingston as the starting point. From Kingston to Frankton by water is twenty-five miles ; from Frankton on Lake Wakatip to Pembroke, on Lake Wanaka, the distance by land will be sixty miles via Cromwell, taking the distance, not as the crow flies, but as the line of railway would go ; then from Pembroke, on Lake Wanaka, to Makaroa, thirty miles by water ; from Makaroa to Hokifcika there will be 160 miles of land communication. That distance might be, I think, lessened, but I shall say that it is about 160 miles. From Hokitika to Cobden the distance is twenty-five miles, which would comple the entire line of communication. I put it therefore to any man of common sense, given on the one hand five Provincial Executives, and five provincial talking shops, and on the other an unbroken inland water and railway communication from Foveaux Straits to Blind Bay, which would be most for the interest of the colony, which he would prefer. "Look on this picture, and on that," and you will agree with mo that there cannot be the slightest comparison. lam perfectly satisfied that this 300 miles, that is, about 245 miles of railway and 55 of water communication, can, with our new ideas of the cost of railway construction, be constructed for half a million sterling from one point to the other. However, Sir, it is not upon the mere ground of pecuniary saving that I would urge these proposals. There are many conceivablecircumstances under which we may effect great pecuniary saving but sacrifice at the same time the public interest. I maintain by these proposals not only shall we secure a very great pecuniary saving but the publio interest will be very greatly promoted. lam persuaded that the Middle Island will be much more efficiently governed by one legislature than it oan be by five —instead of the present diversity, we shall have an assimilation of the laws. I have always looked upon it as absurd that in such a comparatively small territory we should have five different land laws, and five different laws upon every subject from a dog tax to an auctioneer's license. I believe that the Middle Island will be much more efficiently governed by one local legislature peculiar to itself than it can be by five different local legislatures, or by one legislative body situated at Wellington, a legislature with totally different functions devolving upon it. lam not prepared to deny that in the course of years it may not be better to have one central legislature in Wellington, that is to say, after we have got rid of some additional millions of waste lands. When the population is doubled and the county system is fairly in operation, then possibly one legislature may suffice. But, sir, I hold that no county system can be satisfactory which emanates from this House, and no county system can be satisfactory which does not emanate from the Provincial Council. I hold "that if those resolutions are carried into effect, the first and principal duty that will devolve upon the Middle Island Provincial Council will be the division of the island into counties, and the constituting throughout its length and breadth of local boards, boards which will ultimately, to a great extent, if not altogether, supersede the Provincial Council itself. 1 may state that in Otago we are now taking action in this direction. If the ordinance which was passed last session receives His Excellency's assent there will be in Otago some thirty or forty local boards, possessing this marked distinction, viz., that they will be honorary and unpaid. If that ordinance is passed we shall have county boards in Otago which will take charge not only of district roads but main roads, education, and I hope the police also. I need not descant upon the value of our endeavoring to get rid of the mercenary element in our political organisations. I take it that these unpaid boards will be a very great improvement upon the present system of Provincial Councils with their honorariums and so forth. I shall not occupy the time of the House further upon this subject. The resolutions are sufficiently intelligible, and I think they carry their own explanation upon the face of them. I shall state, however, generally, some of the advantages which will accrue to the Middle Island if these resolutions be carried. One of these is, that the railways proposed to be constructed would be administered by the Provincial Council. I am sure that they can be much more advantageously and economically constructed under a provincial than they can be under a colonial administration. I think our past experience goes to prove that; and then as to the question as to where those railways are to be constructed, and when constructed—no doubt, in this Assembly we shall have a regular scramble, inasmuch as we want them simultaneously all over the colony. I say that these questiens will be much more satisfactorily determined by a Provincial Council in the Middle Island free from the Northern Island element. I think that this proposal should cemmend itself to the common sense of hon members. There is another advantage that will be gained by this proposal: we shall have practical insular separation, so far as that can be had, without impairing or destroying the unity of the colony. I take it that one of the great objections that will be raised to the proposal by its opponents will be that it will result in the destruction of the unity of the colony—a result the very reverse of which will be the case. Another great advantage would be that the powers of the provincial legislatures would be defined, and we should no longer be obliged to come here session

after session for validation acts. The ultra vires would be knocked on the head. I think we have been very much indebted to the lawyers for all that we have heard of the ultra vires of Provincial Councils- If these resolutions are carried they will do away with all that, and we shall have but one provincial statute book instead of five as at present. Itwill be observed that I propose in these resolutions to give full constituent and absolute powers of legislation to the Provincial Council, that is to say, powers of legislation upon all matters affecting the peace, order, and good Government of the Middle Island excepting questions purely federal. The exceptions are as follows : The imposition or regulation of Customs Duties. The establishment or abolition of Civil or Criminal Courts, or alteration of the Criminal Law. The regulation and establishment of Postal and Telegraphic communication. Eegulating the Law of Bankruptcy and Insolvency. Regulating Marriages. Affecting Lands of the Crown. Begulating the course of inheritance of real or personal Property, or affecting the Laws relating to wills. It will be found that these embody most of the subjects, contained in the Constitution Act, from which Provincial Councils are debarred from dealing. The only subject of great importance which is omitted, is that of banking currency. This, as you are aware, Provincial Councils are prohibited from dealing with, but I hold in regard to this and other matters of local concern that it is ab&urd for the Colonial Legislature to consider itself as alone qualified to deal. Then Sir, another very great advantage from these proposals would be having one uniform land law for the Middle Island. At present you are aware that the land laws of the colony are inexplicable, even to ourselves, and what a stranger can make of them it is difficult to imagine. It is ridiculous that New Zealand, a mere speck, should have nine land laws. I think the Imperial Parliament made a great blunder in handing over the lands to the colony. They would have been much better administered had they been retained by the Imperial authorities. At all events, I believe in the axiom of Earl Rus?ell, " that all the colonial waste lands should be regarded as the patrimony of the poor man at home." That blunder having been committed, wo committed another, in that, after getting the land, we did not divide it amongst ourselves, as some provinces that shall be nameless pretty much did. It will be observed that in these resolutions I do not indicate where the seat of Government in the Middle Island should be. That is a matter that should be left to the Provincial Council. At all events, I take it that the first Provincial Council should meet at Christchurch, bub wherever the seat of the Executive Government may be, I think that for some years the Provincial Council should be peripatetic. I think when the railway system comes to be extended throughout the island there will be very little difficulty about that. There can be no doubt as to the great benefits that would result to the country by its legislators having a personal knowledge of the different localities whose interests they are called upon to deal with. I hold that it is impossible to make laws—much more to administer satisfactorily the affairs of the country without local knowledge. But I look upon it that if this proposal is carried, the Provincial Council should meet alternately at Nelson, Blenheim, Christchurch, Dunedin, Invercargill, and Hokitika. Sir, I shall ask the House for leave to withdraw motion No. 11, which proposes that the colonial legislature of New Zealand, as at present constituted, shall be remodelled. That subject is one that perhaps had better be left to be dealt with by itself. When the time arrives I shall therefore ask the leave of the House to withdraw it. For my own part I have strong views upon that question. I have no doubt that if those proposals assume a tangible shape, the reform of the colonial legislature will follow as a matter of course. I think there cannot be the slightest doubt that the great curse of this country is that we are over-governed—we are vastly overgoverned,—there is great room for simplification and reduction to the manifest advantage of the colony. Sir, I do not intend to occupy the time of the House much further at present, as the resolutions bear, on the face of them, their own explanation. I propose to put them seriatim, so as to afford the House an opportunity of altering or modifying them as they think fit. I am not wedded to any particular cast-iron idea, or to any particular mode in which the resolutions should be carried out; I merely wish to see the principle carried out in some shape or other, namely, that we shall substitute forty-six legislative functionaries for the 138 who now legislate for the Middle Island. I may say that I have carefully abstained from touting or buttonholeing anybody upon the subject, as I hold that to pursue such a course would be an insult to the judgment and common sense of every member of this House, and who is presumed to exercise those qualities in reviewing the question ; for these reasons I was particularly careful to abstain from anything of the sort. But I may express my earnest hope that these resolutions will commend themselves to the representatives, or majority of the representatives, of this House, and particularly to the representatives of the Middle Island ; and if I should receive their support I hope that the representatives of the North Island will not withhold theirs. I beg the Northern Island members to remark particularly that I am in no way whatever proposing to interfere with the North Island Provinces i they will remain as they are. and their powers, so far as this House is concerned, will remain undisturbed in relation to matters of purely federal concern. I would say, further, that whatever difference of

opinion there may east in the members from the Middle Island as to the expediency of sinking their provincial nationality, I think there can be no difference of opinion as to the direct advantages contained iithe proposals, unless upon merely sentimental grounds. It is a fact that we are to save £22,000 a year by these proposals, and that, to my mind, weighs down a vast amount of sentiment. It should be remembered, also, that as an Otago man, I am sacrificing the prejudices of years. I am sacrificing that Otago nationality which I have long cherished; but I do it for what I conceive to be of infinitely more importance, what will be more advantageous to the Province of Otago, more advantageous to the Middle Island, and better for the colony as a whole; and I hope the hon members from the Middle Island will view the matter in the same spirit. I think I may fairly claim, on personal grounds, that if these resolutions are carried, no individual member of the House will be making a greater sacrifice than myself: I do not mean a sacrifice of self-imterest, but of ambition; because there can be no doubt that te be the Superintendent of the largest and most important division in the colony—however that office may be depreciated in # this House—is a high and honorable position, and a worthy object of ambition. If these resolutions are carried, I am cutting my own Ihroat politically; but that I consjder _ as nothing compared with the advantages which must result to the Middle Island and to the colony if those proposals are carried into effect. Having thus given to the young members of this House a good example of brevity, I shall conclude by moving the resolutions standing in my name. A discussion arose as to whether the resolutions should be considered as a whole, or discussed seriatim in a committee of the whole House, when it was decided that the question should be—That the House go into committee to consider the resolutions. Mr FOX then announced tnafc the Government could not support the resolutions, as they were entirely antagonistic to the policyof the Government, as developed in the financial statement of the Colonial Treasurer, and to the measures which were passed by the House last year. • [We will endeavor to find space for Mr Fox's speech to-morrow.] Mr HALL quite agreed with the mover of the resolutions that we were suffering from too much government. We spent too much money upon it and too much time, neither of which we could spare, but he did not think the remedy proposed by the hon. gentleman the right one; it was worse than the present disease. What we wanted was one government for the whole colony, varied by local bodies for the administration of local affairs. The hon. gentleman did not propose that; he proposed that we should have three governments for the colony, with local bodies for administering local affairs. The hon. member proposed to retain the provincial form of government, but his resolutions maintained a mysterious silence upon the subject of North Island government. We should have, therefore, instead of, as at present, one government, which was gradually, surely, and very properly absorbing the management of all those affairs which affect the colony as a whole— we should have instead, permanently established, one government for a certain portion of those •things which affect us as a colony as a whole, and two other governments, for other purposes, in which case it would be a worse form of government than hon members have hitherto complained of. The administration of the affairs of the Middle Island by one body would be very objectionable to that island, and we should have .Bhire Councils in addition. It was therefore in accordance with reason that the proposal, instead of reducing the_ government, would complicate and increase it. That was in complete opposition to his ideas, because he was in favor of simplifying and cheapening the government of the colony. The hon gentlemen with whom he had been associated had been working in that direction for some years past, by the constitution of shire or county councils, and he was only sorry that they had not had the assistance of the hon. gentleman ; but he did not think such a state of things was to be brought about in the way some people were in the habit of talking about—" by the sweeping away of provincial institutions." They might sweep away provincial institutions, but they would not sweep away that which kept provincial institutions going. It had always been the object of himself and his colleagues to endeavor to centralise the Government as much as possible, and to put in the hands of these local bodies —the city councils or shire councils —the administration of those local affairs which were always best administered locally. He was glad to find, and he congratulated his hon. friends on the fact, that force of circumstances was driving them into doing a thing which some years ago they would not assist him in doing. But he did not wish them to go in that direction by vast changes; vast changes made too suddenly were not made wisely. 'The people did not care to have these alterations hurried upon them ; the people must go with you. Therefore, he was satisfied, especially since the delivery of the financial statement, with the progress that had been made by the Government, and was not willing to accept this invitation of the hon. member for Port Chalmers. With regard to the scheme, he had Oik- word or two to say on that subject. The general objection he had to it was this—that it did not provide in any way for what the hon. gentlemen so much dreaded—a general scramble. The hon. gentleman dreaded that very much; so did he. But how does he propose to remedy it ? By giving the power to a portion of the members of that House, who would be sitting in another place. Would they not scramble there ? He rather thought they would; and his objection was that the Canterbury members would be at a

loss in that scramble. The Otago members would be very nearly equal to all the others, and the Westland members would hold the balance of power; they would be in the most powerful position any body of men ever held. He thought that was not a desirable state_ of things, looking at it from a Canterbury point of view, and the sketch of the railway matters given by the hon gentleman did not increase his confidence in the matter. What was the great boon in the scheme ? According to that scheme they would have a railway connecting the province of Otago with the West Coast, going through the Southern Alps, to be done at a cost of £440,000. Canterbury, Marlborough, and Nelson are entirely left out of that scheme. That was one of the fruits which the hon. gentleman held out to them, and that really seemed to be the only kind of fruit they would reap. The Canterbury members had been invited to express their views, and for that reason he had given the hon. member his ideas. He objected to the scheme, on the ground that it left out of consideration altogether the provision made by the Government for the construction of works in both islands. Another objection he had was that there was an unfortunate absence of anything specific about the Seat of Government. One member thought it should be at Christchurch, and another thought it should be peripatetic. He had a very strong impression that neither of these suppositions was correct, hut that it would be in a place where it would not be desirable to hold it. He would only say, in addition, that the hon. gentleman attempted to show that a very large saving would be effected by the adoption of this plan. He certainly showed the coßt of the Provincial Governments, but he did not think he had proved to the House the saving that would be made by the carrying of the motion. He had asserted that the business of forty-five members could be carried on by three or four. If the hon member would permit him to say so, without offence, he thought such a thing entirely visionary. In conclusion, the hon. member said he entirely recognised the necessities of many parts of the Middle Island, and he would work together with Middle Island members for the recognition of those necessities, hut he could not on that account assent to the proposition of the hon gentleman —a proposition in regard to which he had not previously consulted any Canterbury member —had not taken any steps to ascertain that they would meet the views of any part of that province—and he must not be disappointed to find that they did not meet the views of the members of that part of the colony. He would vote against going into committee on the resolutions.

Mr BOLLESTON said the resolutions as they stood would not by any means meet his views in respect to the question before the House. At the same time he was one of those who, last session, when h 9 heard the financial proposals of the Colonial Treasurer felt, and felt very strongly, that the steps he proposed would prove disastrous to the colony ; but the safeguards, of which they had intimation in the Treasurer's recent statement, would tend to prevent the great scheme ending, as he had anticipated it would, end in ruin to the colony. He was one of those who always maintained that the unity of the colony was a thing that should be most dear to himself and to all public men of New Zealand, and he would not lend himself to any step which would sooner or later, tend to interfere with that unity. It appeared to him that the resolutions were at the present time inopportune. They had had the statement of the Colonial Treasurer placed in their hands, with the view of considering it, and he thought the House should not be called upon to consider these propositions before considering that statement in the manner in which it should be considered. He had heard that there might be some modification of these resolutions, which would tend to preserve the colony from a general scramble. However, as he understood the Colonial Treasurer's statement, ib also did away with all hope in the minds of those who looked upon the scheme as a general scramble, in which they might gain largely at the expense and ruin of the colony. That statement withdrew all fear of that gambling tendency which was so much apprehended by those who were of his opinion in the last Parliament. It adopted a special system of securing that works should only be undertaken where there were special securities to offer, or where the population was prepared to guarantee payment for the works, on the principle of rating. He hoped the hon member, if he wished that further consideration should be given to these resolutions, would postpone the consideration of them until they had had time to consider the proposals of the Government. Mr BEEVES would vote against the resolutions for somewhat different reasons. He largely shared in the views expressed by one or two hon members, and he hoped that he did not wrong the hon gentleman who brought forward the resolutions by a suspicion that he could not really be sincere in bringing them before the House, because he had always looked upon that hon gentleman as the typical man of the practical members in the House in years past. He could hardly understand that the hon gentleman, who was a supporter of the Government last year, could come at such a juncture as this and bring in what he stated at the outset to be the greatest organic change in the history of the colony. He could conceive no more inopportune time to bring in such a change as this, and on that ground alone he would vote against going into committee o n the resolutions. As one who some years ago took an active part in his own province in support of a movement for (separation he was bound to state why, for other reasons, he could not vote for these resolutions. Since the year 1867, when the House passed certain very important financial resolutions, and especially since those measures had been supplemented by the policy

which was based on the action of the House last year, it would not only be impossible but highly impolitic. The reason why it would be impolitic was because the colony had, for the first time, entered upon a period of colonisation which would ensure their prosperity. He never shared in the frightful delusions expressed by the hon member Mr Rolleston ; he could never see any extraordinary delusions in the policy of the Government. He believed in that policy from the first, and he believed in it now. He believed it would be of the greatest good to the colony, provided the schemes were properly carried out; and experience proved that the Government had taken the most proper measures in carrying out the work of the colony. For these reasons he should be obliged to vote against the House going into committee on the resolutions. Mr BATHGATE supported the resolutions in a very able speech. Mr FITZHERBERT looked upon the attempt to pass the resolutions as an attempt to perpetrate an order of things which was about to pass away by common consent. Mr RICHARDSON Bpofce in opposition, and proposed the adjournment of the debate for a fortnight. Mr Reid, Mr Haughton, and Mr Calder spoke in favor of the adjournment, which was agreed to. THE EDUCATION BILL. Mr FOX made his reply on this bill, but our space will not permit its appearance in our present issue. The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday week. THIED READINGS. The Evidence Further Amendment Bill, the Wellington Education Reserves Bill, and the Bakers and Millers Bill, were read a third time and passed. DISEASED CATTLE ACT AMENDMENT JBILL. The House went into committee on this bill, and after a lengthened debate, and many amendments, the bill was reported to the House. GKAND JUEIES. The debate on this question was resumed and closed. A division being called for, the result was as follows —Ayes, 24: noes, 34. The motion for the abolition of grand juries was therefore negatived. Notices of motion having been given, the House adjourned at twenty-five minutes past twelve.