LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 31, 26 August 1871, Page 8

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Friday, Aug. 18. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at two o’clock. PETITIONS. The Hon. Mr HOLMES presented a petition from residents of the East Clutha District, praying that the system of education prevailing in Otago might.be maintained. lie also presented a petition from members of the Presbytery of Clutha to the same effect. The Hon. Mr PATERSON presented a similar petition from the Kaihiki educational district. , . , . , The Hon. Mr M'LEAN obtained leave to

append to the petition of the Chancellor of the University of Otago a correction of the figures which had occurred in the transcription of the petition presented to the Council. the speaker’s costume. The Hon Mr M‘LEAN moved that, in the opinion of this Council, the Speaker of the Legislative Council should adopt the same costume as that adopted by the Presidents of the Legislative Councils of the Australian colonies. The Hon Mr WATERHOUSE seconded the motion. After some discussion, the suggestion of the Hon Mr Sewell, that the subject should be referred to the Standing Orders Committee or to a special committee, was adopted by the mover, and he withdrew the motion on the understanding that he should bring it forward in a different form. COMMITTEES. On the motion of the Hon Major RICHARDSON, several committees were appointed. ADDRESS IN REPLY. The Hon Mr SEWELL resumed the ad journed debate on the address in reply to the Governor’s spsech. He thought the Government had reason to congratulate themselves upon the spirit in which the address had been received, It had been considerably criticised, and in the majority of instances the criticism had not been in an unfriendly or hostile tone. The Hon Mr Holmes certainly spoke in a complaining tone, and thought the House and the Government were somewhat jubilant and sanguine. He did not, however’, think the speech was fairly open to such criticism. He did not think the speech drew too favorable a picture. It admitted that there had been a considerable falling off in the levenue, but gave the qualifying reasons for that occurrence. It was true the revenue had seriously fallen off, but the causes were special and exceptional, and he did not think there was reason for anxiety or despair. He believed the difference between the imports this year and last year would not be less than £900,000, but he did not think the prosperity of the colony was to be measured by the amount of its imports. He rather thought it should be by its exports, and there was some slight; increase in the value of their exports, and a considerable increase in their quantity. He pointed to that as a reassuring fact. They had, in point of fact, an aggregate export exceeding the imports by £600,000, and he thought that was a circumstance upon which they might reasonably congratulate themselves as to the condition of commercial affairs. Speaking, advisedly, and having ascertained the opinions of those capable of judging, he thought they might anticipate a considerable revival of prosperity and improvement in the material progress of the colony. And this was not a local or partial prosperity, but a prosperity which was extended and extending throughout the length and breadth of the. colony. There were other points as to which they might have been justified in using a more “jubilant” tone. He referred especially to the state of native affairs, the allusions to which in the Governor's speech were open to criticism on the grounds oi reticence rather than an overcongratulatory tone. Taking all the circumstances into account, he thought that native affairs had assumed an aspect very different from that which they had presented at any time during the last ten years. As to the comparisons as to loans instituted by the Hon Mr Holmes, the fact was the price of the loan of 1867 was only 13s 5d per cent above the loan negotiated by the Colonial Treasurer, and he thought it was a subject for congratulation that the loan had been raised as it had been. He contended that the negotiation of the present loan could not be considered in any way inferior to the terms upon which the loan of 1887 had been negotiated. And, as they were to place larger amounts on the money market, they had. placed themselves at some disadvantage. Besides, it was expected that there would be a large demand for the large French loan. Taking all the circumstances, the operation of floating the last loan bore favorable comparison with the negotiation of previous loans. With regard to the San Francisco service, he considered that the resolutions passed had been carried out with the closest regard .to the interests of the colony, and everything had been done to obtain the co-operation, of the Australian colonies. Both in connection with the Panama service, and the present service, the Australian colonies had not acted fairly towards this colony. There were more grounds for us to complain of the Australian colonies, than for them of us. At same time he trusted that every effort and concession would, be made to bring about a better understanding. He regretted, with the Hon Mr Holmes, the apathy and indifference with which the question of public works and immigration had been treated in the different provinces a fact attributable to a misp'aced spirit of monopoly and a misconception of the effect of the. accomplishment of a scheme of immigration, encouraged by the appropriation of lands. It was by the introduction of new. capital and new people, and by some appropriation of the lands for their settlement, that they could only hope to meet the responsibilities they had undertaken, and to promote the prosperity of the colony. As to the remarks of the Hon Mr Holmes, he thought what they had to do, in any organic change of government, was rather to provide for local administration, according to natural districts, than to precipitate any such change in the general administration as was proposed. His impression was that, if they were to look forward to the- permanent union of the colony, it would be best that local institutions should stand in relation to one central government.

The report of the Committee on the Address was adopted, and the Council adjourned.

Tuesday, August 22. The Speaker took the chair at two o’clock, but quitted it to proceed with members of the Council to Government House to present to his Excellency the Address in reply to the speech at the opening of Parliament. At three o’clock the Speaker resumed his seat. NEW BILLS. The Hon.MrSEWELLobtained leave to bring in new bills entitled an Act to regulate the sale of bread, and to prevent the adulteration of meal and flour; an Act for better securing the payment of debts due to workmen ; and an Act to amend the law relating to insolvents. He promised full explanations of the character of the measures on moving for the second reading. The bill as to the wages of workmen was a copy of the Victorian measure, and was intended to give workmen a preferential lien over money due by contractors. The Insolvency Bill was a consolidation of tho law on the subject, and also resembled the Victorian Act, which was substantially framed upon the English Act. The second reading of the first two bills was made an order of the day for Friday, and the second reading of the Insolvency Bill for Tuesday next; The Hon Mr Sewell, in reply to the Hon Mr Holmes, promising that there should be no undue haste in passing the measure through its various stages. GOLDFIELDS COMMITTEE. On the motion of the Hon Mr Sewell, a committee was appointed to consider all bills and petitions affecting goldfields. CONDUCT OF BUSINESS. The Hon. Mr WATERHOUSE moved, “ That there be laid on the table a copy of any regulations which may be in force for the conduct of public business.” He anticipated that there might be no return, such as he called for, forthcoming, but he thought that great advantage might arise from a discussion of the subject, and it was more as a text for such discussion that he proposed the motion. In England, where proper regulations existed for the conduct of business, the State machinery moved with ease and regularity, and in some of the colonies regulations based on these existed. But he could find no regulations in this colony, and the effect had been to encourage irregularity, and it might be that great injury would result. If there had been any regulations in force there would not have been the misunderstanding which at present existed as to the powers of the different branches of the Legislature, and he feared that, partly from the same cause, the statement made by Mr Gillies, in his lecture at Auckland, that the Governorship was a mere shadow, was the impression which too generally prevailed. He feared the government had been so administered that the Governor had sunk from the position which he ought properly to occupy, and he believed that this greatly arose from the want of regulations for the conduct of business. It was necessary, for every interest, that the power of the Governor should not be infringed upon, but maintained. In the absence of regulations such as existed elsewhere, there was reason to believe that the Governor was not kept so continually informed of public business as he ought to be. Although the colony had hitherto been fortunate in the choice of ministers, there was no saying what change at some future period might take place. There had already been some proceedings with reference to free pardons, which indicated what he ventured to call reprehensible looseness. In connection with meetings of the Executive, he also thought that there had been irregularities which might amount to rendering them invalid. There was also a want of regulations as to the relative positions of ministers and departments, these positions being often altered. There might have been no practical injury, but inextricable confusion was likely to arise from such a want of system. His object would be attained if, by his motion and remarks, attention were directed to the subject, and he hoped that Ministers would deal with it before the commencement of another session. The Hon Mr HOLMES seconded the motion. The Hon Mr SEWELL admitted that there was great weight in what had been said by the hon mover, and he hoped some practical result would follow the suggestion. He had no return to give, such as the motion asked for, nor could he be expected to give so full an answer to the hon member’s remarks, which the motion itself had not led him to anticipate. Wednesday, August 23. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2 o’clock. THE OATH OF ALLEGIANCE. The Hon Major RICHMOND moved the adoption of the report of the select committee on standing orders, with reference to members of the Council taking the oath at the opening of the new. parliament. The report was to the effect that the requirement of the Speaker’s commission was not in accordance with the Constitution Act, and that, as far as the evidence of the Attorney-General went, no power existed for enforcing it. The committee therefore recommended, if it were desirable to continue the practice contemplated by the commission, that a special measure should be introduced for the purpose, but meantime they recommended that the taking of the oath by members who had already done bo should not be enforced. The recommendation of the report was adopted. FINANCIAL BUSINESS. The Hon Mr WATERHOUSE moved that there be laid upon the table of the Council a copy of the terms upon which the Bank of New Zealand conducts the financial business of the Government; as also a return —(1.) Of all sums paid to the Bank of New Zealand during the year 1870 and the completed portion of 1871 for interest and commission.

(2.) Of all sums of money lying to the credit of the Government in England, negotiated through the same channel, during the above specified periods. He asked for the return because it was not generally known on what terms the bank transacted the business of the Government, and it was possible that a more economical management of the financial business of the country might be instituted. He had had opportunities of making himself acquainted with the large saving which might be effected by placing Government agreements with banks on a proper basis, and he felt positive, fro n what he could gather, that there might be a more economical plan than the present, and, from what he knew of similar transactions dsewhero, it was probable that large financial savings might be effected. He had been given to believe that a saving of from £IO,OOO to £20,000 a-y ear might be effected, according to the way in which the financial business of the country was conducted. In South Australia, before 1866, no special arrangement was made, but, under arrangements instituted by himself, tenders were called for, and the result was a saving n. a comparatively small space of time of several thousand pounds. The terms were simply that the Bank of South Australia, which obtained the contract, transacted all the business of the Government in connection with its finances —paid the coupons and bonds, and kept the accounts —without receiving any remuneration whatever; the sole advantage the Bank gained being that derived from having the deposits of the colony which were lying ixnemployed in England, and for which they paid one per cent, iess than the bank interest of the day. If the terms here were such as had existed South Australia, and for some time'prevailed here, there could be no doubt that there was a margin for large savings which they should not overlook. The colony had lately been negotiating a large loan, and the mere exchange transactions on the portion of the loan coming to the colony might not leave the large amount of profit which the colony should receive from such large transactions. He could not help thinking that the course adopted elsewhere should be adopted here, and that tenders should be called for from the different banks. The Hon. Mr HOLMES seconded the motion. He had previously drawn attention to the matter, and had hoped that some change would have been effected, liut nothing had yet been done. The necessity for a change, and for a proper arrangement on which the Government account should be kept, was now greater than ever. Ha admitted that there had been difficulties in the way. and the present Government were not free to secure the best terms, the bank doing the business ot the colony having certain claims which could not be overlooked. But he believed that better terms than were now got might be got, and that it was the duty of the Government to endeavor to effect the necessary change. There might be considerable resistance to any step in that direction, but he hoped the Government would be able to make the change which was necessary under the circumstances. He had no reason to believe that the Government were indisposed to effect that change, and he hoped that the motion would not be opposed. On the suggestion of the Hon. Mr FARMER, the mover agreed to add to the motion the words—“ Also all sums paid to the Government as interest on deposits during the same period, and the interest paid thereon by the bank”; and, at the suggestion of another hon, member, the following words were added —“And the average balance lying at the credit of the Government at the different provincial banks for the last six months, with the rate of interest paid thereon,” The Hon. Mr SEWELL explained that the arrangement between the Government and the bank was one made in 1867. That regulated the ordinary transactions of Government. He did not gather from the remarks of the Hon Mr Waterhouse that the Government would derive any great advantage from the plan adopted in South Australia, but there might be some respects in which, an improvement might be effected. As to the question of interest, practically the banks allowed a rate of interest as high as they could reasonably expect. However, these were all matters for discussion, but he might say that the Government would be, as they had been, anxious to do the best in their power for the interests of the colony. . Already the attention of the Government had been given to the matter, and some measure of financial economy had been brought about. The Hon Mr WATERHOUSE, in reply to a remark by the Hon Colonel Brett, who deprecated a change from a bank of colonial connections, and who referred to circumstances of recent occurrence in Canterbury, said he had been induced to bring forward the motion by what had occurred in that province. He was glad to know that the matter suggested by him had received attention, and that steps had been taken with a view to economy. The motion was agreed to. Thursday, August 24. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. The Hon Mr Mantell and the Hon Mr Chamberlain took the oath and their seats. The Hon Dr Buchanan presented a petition from the Bishop and clergy of the diocese of Dunedin, on the subject of education. The Hon Mr Scotland allowed to lapse a motion of which he had given notice, with deference to setting apart land “ for the settlement thereon of Tito Kowaru and his followers.” The Dunedin and Port Chalmers Railway Bill was, after a short discussion, referred to the Committee on Private Bills. A message from the House of Representatives, relative to standing orders on Private Bills, was referred to a special committee. The Council was then adjourned.