INTERVIEW OF THE ANTI-CORNLAW DELEGATES WITH SIR ROBERT PEEL.

New Zealand Colonist and Port Nicholson Advertiser, Volume I, Issue 40, 16 December 1842, Page 2

INTERVIEW OF THE ANTI-CORN-LAW DELEGATES WITH SIR ROBERT PEEL.

(From the Morning Chronicle.) The delegates assembled at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, in the Strand, according to appointment, about eleven o’clock on Saturday, and. proceeding thence in a body to Downingstreet, were immediately introduced to Sir Robert Peel. About 150 delegates were present ; and a select number, it was arranged, should consecutively lay before the Premier the melancholy state of different districts of the country, and the objects and wishes of the delegation at large. P. A. Taylor, Esq. handed to Sir Robert Peel the following list of the gentlemen who were to address him : —|\ A. Taylor, Esq.; Mr. Ridgway, from the Potteries; John Brooks, Esq., Manchester; W. Ibbotson, Esq., Sheffield ; the Rev. W. Bonner, of Bilston; L. Hayworth, Esq., of Liverpool; Samuel Forster, Esq., of Bury; Mr. Whitehead, of Leeds; and the Rev. W. Lowe, of Forfar.

P. A. Taylor, Esq., said, that as chairman of the conference which had held its meetings in the metropolis during the present week, and which had sought that interview, he had to inform him that it was composed of deputies from all parts of England and Scotland, but principally from the manufacturing districts, and from several towns in the west of England. They had also with them a number of ministers of religion, who had been deputed by their respective congregations to take part in their proceedings. They had likewise delegates from agricultural districts : for though the late appeal made to national charity was declared to be for the relief of the manufacturing population, they were convinced that the pressure of destitution and suffering was not confined to that class, but was quite as severe and crushing upon the agricultural labourer in many parts of the country. They had come together to lay before the public, through the press, and before Her Majesty’s Ministers, through him, Sir Robert Peel, the dreadful and alarming condition of the people in the various parts of the country from whence they were deputed. Had the amount of distress throughout the country remained the same as when the conference was held in London in February last, it was highly probable they should not, at so early a period, have again assembled; but since that time dis-

tress had gone on increasing, capital had still further been diminished, employment decreased, and trade become more depressed; the hope that spring would bring some remission of the evils of which they complained had been most grievously disappointed; and' they s now stood before him (Sir R. Peel) without alleviation and without hope. The population was literally perishing by thousands—they were absolutely starving—the patience of the suffering people was nearly exhausted, and a feeling and temper beginning to be manifested which was ominous and dangerous in the highest degree. The deputies were convinced, that the time was not far off when they would not be able to' provide food for a large proportion of the population around them, nor longer stave off the outbreak and confusion which would inevitably ensue. He believed that, on the part of the Anti-corn-law League, that was their last appeal, and their last attempt to avert those evils they so much dreaded. The peace of the country had been hitherto preserved by a last glimmering ray of hope; but, when the deputies went back to their constituents, and told them that they had seen the Premier of England and laid before him their state of wretchedness and misery, and that he gave them no promise and no hope, he (Sir Robert Peel) must be answerable for the consequences: as for themselves, they would feel that they had discharged their duty, and it must then remain with the people to take their own course. He believed a large number, at least, of the league and its friends and supporters would say, that they had tried every means in their power, in the present state of the suffrage, to obtain a' redress of their grievances, and they had tried them in vain ; they must now join the ranks of those who were struggling for a radical reform, in the representation of the people, convinced at length that the rights of humanity and justice could no otherwise be obtained.

Mr. Ridgway stated, that he came forward at the request of a populous district, the Staffordshire potteries, to state their situation, and to relate their distresses. The Staffordshire potteries had long been a rising and prosperous district; but its prosperity was gone, and it was sinking more rapidly than it had been rising. The manufacturers, the support of the population, were losing their trade, and, what' was worse, their capital. The traders and shopkeepers, for want of business, were, many of them, unable to meet their engagements, and to maintain their stations; and the working classes, an intelligent and industrious class, were suffering under severe and unexampled distress. The colliers, dependent on the-maim-facturers, are as badly off as the potters; already bodies of them perambulate our streets, and, I will riot say ask, but demand money or food ; the bricklayers, carpenters, and others, are without work and the means of subsistence, and it is impossible to foresee the issue, unless the government repeal the corn-laws, restore the trade, and give t mployment to the country. If the government does not do its duty, and free the people, they will try to free themselves; they feel they are not represented ; they are arraying on all hands to demand their rights. A crisis is at the door ; and unless parliament comes forward with the relief that is demanded, and before winter adds its horror to the existing distress, it will be out of our power to avert the mischief; and on those who have the responsibility will rest the consequences. Mr. Brooks said he was a calico-printer upwards of 33 years in business, and had for the last 25 years been an extensive shipper to nearly all parts of the world: he brought home in exchange for his goods, almost every article that could be named, except corn; he had never brought corn, because he could never calculate on the price; the sliding duty made it impossible for him to bring home corn. He had a large country trade, and employed five commercial travellers; this year he had not done half so much. business in the country trade as he had done last year ; he was therefore obliged to ship to a much greater extent than formerly. There was no demand at home, and he was compelled to get rid of his surplus stock by shipping to markets already overstocked. He instariced Rio, where, two or three years since, eight months’ credit was given; it was extended to ten, and was then twelve months, and even then uncertain, so that the shipper did not realise his return for two, years ; he could not sell the sugar of Rio here, he was obliged to send it to foreign markets. The cost of the raw sugar delivered in Liverpool is 17s. 4d. per cwt., or lfd. per lb. ; the duty upon it is 665. 2d., or 7d. per lb., making 382 per cent, upon the cost of sugar; so that taking the time occupied in sending out the goods, the credit, and the fact that the sugar must be sold in a foreign market, he (Sir Robert Peel) would perceive that the merchant did not get his return for two years; but, if the sugar were allowed to be sold here, the returns would be far quicker, and the coiisumers- of sugar would be infinitely benefited. His print works and a flax mill he worked himself. He had also two factories let, and had other property to the value of 150,000/. all dependent upon commerce. He (Sir Robert Peel) would perceive, then, that it was not wonderful lie should be earnest upon the sub-

ject. Why, he had been obliged, in consequence of the changes in the French tariff, to refit his flax-mill with new machinery. The coarse numbers of yarn were, in fact, prohibited from the French market; and he was obliged to change his machinery so as to adapt it to fine numbers, with which the tariff did not so much interfere. He was one who subscribed 100/. a-year to the Anti-corn-law League, and it cost him at least 100/. more. There were many others did the same. He had agitated the question in almost every part of Lancashire. He was one of the agitators of whom he (Sir Robert Peel) complained—one of the most active of them. How could he be otherwise ? If the trade of this country were not set free, he should never be able to realise fifty thousand out of his hundred and fifty; so that, even as a matter of selfishness, he must be an agitator. Every thing he had was at stake, and there was no time to be lost about, it. But, in addition to this, the people were starving. He could not forget the work-people who had raised this capital for him; he had their interest at heart. The power-loom weavers of Manchester called him their father : they were dying of hunger ; they had the look of men broken down and driven to their graves by want; they kept coming to him in crowds ; they were with him every day ; they were getting worse and worse; something must be done for them. The people thought the government would do nothing for them; they could not see what the government was for, or what it was about; the people were starving*, and it did not help them. He was a chartist; he had joined the people, and he would be an agitator until their condition was changed. Mr. Brooks then handed Sir Robert a paper showing the depreciation in value of 27-inch printing cloth, which he himself purchased. He bought it in 1835, at 9s. Gd. a piece ; he now purchases the same cloth at 4s. 9d. a piece. W. Ibbotson, Esq., brought before Sir R. Peel the case of Sheffield. He implored the government to act in this matter before it was too late. Mr. Lawrence Heywortli, of Liverpool, said it was supposed that the distress of which they came there to complain, was confined to the manufacturing districts, where there was machinery, and to some few trades connected with them ; but he could show, that the evil attached itself also to the great commercial towns. In the great emporium of commerce from which he came, the misery and destitution of the inhabitants generally was nearly as great as in the manufacturing towns. The state of one ward ,of.- Liverpool, perhaps the poorest, certainly would bear out that assertion. In the Vauxhall ward there were about 1,400 families last year; and out of the number 400 had no employment at all, and 400 more, on an average 13d. a week. Sir Robert Peel (interrupting him) inquired whether the trade of Liverpool had fallen off. Mr. I-leyworth said, that there was a host of shipping unchartered, and likely to continue so, in the docks. Sir Robert Peel:—Has the value of the exports from Liverpool fallen off ? Mr. Heywortli said, that it must be evident, from what he was saying, that the quantity of goods used at home must be greatly diminished. Dear bread, in consequence of its being dear, absorbed too much of the wages of the poorer classes to permit a market to be found for the goods exported abroad. Sir Robert Peel:—Did I understand you to say that the exports had diminished ? Mr. Heyworth : —The exports must be increased when the consumption at home is diminished. The Rev. Mr. Bonnar, of Bilston, gave a very alarming account of the physical and mental condition of the labouring classes, in the iron districts from which he came. Mr. S. Forster said he had been deputed by Stockport to state the distressed state of that borough, having had a full acquaintance with it in consequence of his situation as chairman of the board of that union. He (Sir Robert Peel) was well acquainted with their distress through the excellent report of the poor-law commissioners in February last. Since that time to the present, the distress had continued to increase, and the means of relieving that distress to decrease; the rate-payers were in a very distressed condition, and such was the difficulty of obtaining funds, that some of those the best acquainted with the financial condition of the union could not see how it was possible i to raise funds necessary beyond the present quarter, and if the board should be obliged to suspend relief, the consequences would be lamentable. He had had an interview with the poor law commissioners since he came to town, and he had told them these things. The Mayor of Stockport had stated that he, as the chief magistrate of Stockport, would not hold himself responsible for the peace of the borough, if relief was not speedily afforded. He had occupied the situation he held with the view of aiding the poor and poor-rate payers, and should, for the present, continue to hold it except the want of funds should cause the operations of the board to cease. The expenses of the poor for three years, ending March, 1841, was 3,100/. per year. This year it would, ac-

cording to present appearances, be upwards of 9,000/. Mr. Edmund Grundy, of Bury, regretted the pressing necessity which had given rise to this interview, but rejoiced at the opportunity of appearing before an original fellow-townsman, for the purpose of stating the distress and feelings that pervaded the town of Bury: The state of the poor-rate would be forcible evidence of the distress. In 1839, a rate of lOd. in the pound was levied; in 1840, 25.; and in 1841, 2s. Id.; leaving a debt owing by the township of near 3,000/. What 1842 might bring forth time must determine; but he would just state what effect the universal distress was rapidly producing in the minds of the people. He need scarcely state the' effect of the present sufferings upon the labouring class. That might be inferred from the state of mind which destitution would inevitably produce in every case; but as to the shop keepers, who were all rapidly hastening to utter ruin, he did not think there were ten men amongst them who were not desperate enough to view any movement which the people might make, not only without alarm, but with sympathy and satisfaction. As to his own class, they were rapidlv coming to the same conclusion. The depression of property in Bury and the neighbourhood was most appalling. A spinning and weaving establishment which cost at least 40,000/. was lately offered for sale, and only 4,000/. hid for it, Another, which five years ago was sold for 23,000/., was offered for sale, and not a single hid made for it; and one called the Gig, which Sir Sobert Peel would recollect, as his (Sir Robert Peel’s) life was in the lease, though he (Mr. Grundy) had thrown it out, believing that his life would not be lengthened by his becoming prime minister, was declared at 15,000/., and bought for between 5,000 and 6,000/. They believed that he (Sir Robert Peel) had the power to give them relief ;■ and were he, Sir Robert Peel, he would do it, without regard to any party. Sir R. Peel inquired whether Bury was not under the new poor law. Mr. Grundy said it was. Sir 11. Peel:—What is the extent of the union ?

Mr. Grundy named the places included in the union, well known to Sir Robert Peel. The poor-law was no favourite of his, and he begged leave to call the attention to its effects on the mind of the people. If he were a labouring man, and relief and redress of grievances were refused, he knew the effect it would have on his own mind, and therefore he deemed it unnecessary to describe the effect upon theirs. He did not believe, that there were ten shopkeepers in Bury maintaining themselves by their business. One shopkeeper told him the other day, that, out of 168 customers who had entered his shop, they had spent only the miserable sum of between 2/. and 3/. Mr. Whitehead, of Leeds, stood before him (Sir Robert Peel) as a shopkeeper of that town, the inhabitants of which, together with every other in the West Riding* of Yorkshire, were on the brink of ruin. Within the last six months, a great number of the principal shops in Leeds had been closed. Mr. Whitehead was proceeding with details of the wide-spread and awful suffering, when Sir R. Peel inquired whether the consumption of tea and sugar had decreased. Mr. Whitehead believed the consumption of h ese articles had not been so much affected. Sir R. Peel—Supposed it should have increased. Mr. Whitehead said that the food of the poorer classes of the population generally consisted of bread, milk, meat, potatoes, cheese, and butter The male part of them did not, except when obliged, take tea and coffee. What was used of those articles was of the worst quality and the lowest price, so much so indeed that the revenue was scarcely benefitted by the consumption. The Chairman briefly added some statements relative to the distress in London, which, although not so great as in other places, was still becoming progressively more severe. The number of casual cases relieved by the City of London Union, from the 25th of December, 1838, to June the 24th, 1839 was 888, at an expense of 628/. 65.; and the number of cases from December 25th, 1841, to June the 24th, 1842, was 20,648, at an expense of 4, 231/.' 3s. Sir R. Peel made the following reply : “ You will be aware, gentlemen, that as these subjects are being debated almost nightly in the house of commons, I cannot be expected to communicate any thing now. I shall, however, take care that the facts and statements you have laid before me are brought before her! majesty’s government. 1 have nothing further to communicate” —then, after a pause, Sir R. Peel added “ except to express my deep sympathy in the distresses of the country, arid to thank you for the testimony you have borne, which I fear is mcontestible.”

Sir Robert Peel then withdrew. On retiring to Herbert’s Hotel, Palace Yard, an unanimous vote of thanks was passed to the chairman, for the impressive, and yet dignified manner in which he had introduced the delegation to Sir Robert Peel.