General Assembly of New Zealand.

New Zealander, Volume XVIII, Issue 1727, 27 September 1862, Page 4

General Assembly of New Zealand.

[by our own reporter.]

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 4th, 1862. The Speaker took the Chair at three o’clock. GRANT FOR INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL AT WANGANUI. Mr. FOX asked the Government, Whether it is prenared to take steps to enforce the fulfilment of the conditions on which a grant of land was made to certain oersons for the maintenance ot an Industrial School at Wanganui, explaining that this land was worth about £ls 000 and, though the grant has been made ten year’s, nothing has been done towards carrying out the object for which the grant was made. The people of Wanganui wished the Government to take one of two courses —either enforce the fulfilment of the conditions of the grant, or take measures to annul it, cither ot which might be done through the Supreme Court. Thehon. Mr. DOMETT said he would inquire into the circumstances, and if the legal adviser ot the Government considered the course proposed the proper one, it would be taken. He .lid not think, however that the Government was charged with the duty ot seeing that all grants for similar purposes were carried out.

INCOMPLETE LAND PURCHASES IN NORTHERN ISLAND. Mr. FOX moved for the production of all correspondence, not already on the table ot the House, between the Chief Land Purchase Commissioner, District Commissioners, and the Government, relative to any negotiations for blocks of land which have been commenced but not completed, or which aic now pending in the Northern Island. Motion agreed to. RAILWAY FROM PICTON TO WAIRAU.

Mr. J. C. RICHMOND moved for leave to bring in a Bill to enable the Superintendent of the Province of Marlborough to construct a Railway from Picton Harbour to the Wairau, in the said Province of Marlborough. Mr. COLENSO seconded the motion. Mr CAHLETON would move, after the first reading, that the Bill be referred to the Joint Committee of Standing Orders on private bills. Mr. BRANDON did not see any need to refer the Bill to the committee. It was evidently a private bill, and one that he believed need not to have been brought into this House, the Provincial Council having sufficient power. Mr. SAUNDERS opposed the introduction of this Bill at so late a period of the session, as taking the Wairau people by surprise. The hon. Mr. DOMETT remarked that the Bill was simply one empowering the Superintendent and Provincial Council of Marlborough to make this Railway. He thought Bills of this nature ought to be considered public bills. Mr. FOX would support the hon. member for the Bay’s motion. Mr. WILLIAMSON said it was very desirable that the powers of the Provincial Legislatures with regard to such works as these should be defined, and these questions not be left to committees of the House. Mr. STAFFORD thought the remarks of the hon. member for City West were worthy ot attention, and spoke in favour of the construction of railways in the Colony. It was a pity the question had not been initiated sooner this session, in order that the House might have passed some general empowering Act, or repudiate altogether any intention of interfering with the action of the Provincial Governments on the subject. He supported the Bill. Mr. J. C. RICHMOND, in reply, urged that this was not a private but a public bill, and replied to several of the remarks of previous speakers. He had no objection, if it were the wish of the House, to allow it to go to the private bills committee. The question was then put, and the bill read a first time.

Mr. CARLETON then moved that tlu bill be referred to the private bills committee. Agreed to. LAND REGISTRY ACT, 18G0. Mr. FOX moved, That the system of Registration of Titles prescribed by the Act of 1860 ought to be brought into operation without further delay than may be necessary to obtain the assent of the Horae Government to the Act of this session. After some remarks by Mr. DOMETT and Mr STAFFORD, the motion was agreed to. UNAUTHORISED EXPENDITURE BY PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENTS. Mr. CARLETON moved, That there be laid on the table a Return of the amount of expenditure, not previously authorized by Appropriation Act, incurred by the several Provincial Governments (excepting the Government of the Province of Marlborough) during the period commencing on the Ist July, 1856, and ended the 30th September, I860; and that, if it be not found possible to make such complete Return before the next prorogation of this House, so much of that Return as cannot be conveniently supplied during the present session be laid on the table in the course of the next session.

Agreed to, after some discussion

GRANT OF LAND TO WESLEYAN BODY. Mr. CARTER moved, That a copy of the Grant conveying certain portions of the Town Eelt of the City of Wellington to the Wesleyan body be, if possible, laid on the table. He asked the House to allow this return to be made, because he thought the Provincial Council of Wellington had no power to order such a return; and also on account of the importance of the subject to t ,i e citizens of Wellington. A goodly number of acres of the best part of the Town Belt of the City of Wellington had been given nine or ten years ago to the Wesleyan body for a good purpose, namely, as an endowment for Industrial Native Schools. This land, so alienated, was given on certain conditions, the principal of which was, that an Industrial School should be established by the Wesleyan body. Now that condition had not in any way been fulfilled by them, but they were actually letting, or agreeing to let, certain plots of the land to parties, some of whom were now occupying part of it. If this were allowed to pass unnoticed, in years to come, instead of this land supporting schools, it perhaps might be found to be appropriated to church or religious purposes. He (Mr. C.) thought that the conditions of the grant should, without more delay, be carried out, or the land should revert to its original owners, the inhabitants of Wellington, lie begged to move the motion standing in his name. Motion agreed to.

MEMORIAL OF THE WELLINGTON CHAMBER OF COMMERCE. Mr. WARING TAYLOR moved That the memorial of the Wellington Chamber of Commerce on the subject of the Customs’ tariff be printed. AUCKLAND WASTE LANHS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. DOMETT moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Auckland Waste Lands Act, ISSB, explaining that its objects were similar to those proposed by Mr Williamson’s bill, and that it had the concurrence of all the Auckland members. Mr JOHN WILLIAMSON seconded the motion. Motion agreed to. NATIVE LAND PURCHASE ORDINANCE. Mr. CARLETON brought up the report of the committee on the Hawke’s Bay Petition relative to the case of Scully v. Coleuso, which was referred back to the committee for amendment.

The following is the last clause of the original report: — “Your committee invito attention to the annexed letter from the Hon. Crosbio Ward, dated Ist Slav, 18G2, and extracts from Colonel Russell’s evidence, and thereupon record their opinion that the designation by Government of a particular Magistrate, either to take an information or to try a particular case, is calculated to impair public confidence, and liable to very great abuse.” Annexed letters and extracts from evidence:— “ Crown Lands’ Office. “Auckland, Ist May, 1562. “ Sir,— l have the honor to request that you will proceed without delay to cause an information to he laid under the Waste Land Purchase Ordinance, against the person named in the margin, (William Oolenso) for illegal occupation ot the old Church Missionary reserve, situate on the road between Napier and Clive, and known by the name of Awapuni, by a warrant under the hand of His Excellency the late Governor. Every member of flic police force within the Province of Napier is authorized to lay such information, and His Honor the Superintendent has been requested to give directions to the police to afford you all assistance necessary in dealing with the case. It may bo found most convenient that the information should be laid before the Hon. Colonel Russell. I forward you an original letter from the Right Rev. Bishop Williams, and other Trustees of the Church Missionary Society, from which you will perceive that the title to the land in question still rests in the Native owners You will he good enough to return the paper when done with. I have, &c., Crosiue Ward.” Extract of evidence of Colonel Russell before the committee, on the 2Gth ultimo;

“ A letter from the Government to the Crown Land Commissioner, instructing him to cause an information to be laid in the ease, contained these words:—-“It is desirable that the information should bo laid before the HotG Colonel KusbolL t consulted with the

Resident Magistrate of Napier, and it was arrange that the preliminary steps should be taken in his in the usual way, and that in the trial I should tak» his place in the court. I considered that I was i Q( JU cated as the person who was to try the case because T was Circuit Commissioner; but I was aware that I no authority to hold a court except as Resident Irate.” Ordered to lie on the table. PRIVATE GRIEVANCES. Mr. JOLLIE brought up a further report from the Private Grievance Committee, reporting in favour of Williamson’s Petition. ' ' NATIVE LANDS BILL. The Order of the Day for the Native Lands Bill to be reported, being read, the bill was recommitted on the motion of the Native Minister. After a lengthened discussion on the second clause, the bill was reported with amendments. A message having been received from the Legist. tive Council and read, the House adjourned at a few minutes before seven o’clock. , FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER sth, 1862. The Speaker took the chair at 12 o’clock. BAY OF ISLANDS SETTLEMENT. Mr. CARLETON asked the Colonial Secretary what course the Government intended to pursue in the matter of the Bay of Islands Settlement, to be formed under the provisions of “ The Bay of Islands Settlement Act, 1858;” also, in the event of such Settlement not being formed, whether compensation will be allowed for losses by owners of land taken, or proposed to be taken, by the Government under the provisions of the aforesaid act, suffered through the operation of that Act. At the request of the COLONIAL SECRETARY the question was postponed till Tuesday. NATIVE LAND PURCHASE. Mr. FOX moved for leave to introduce a Bill to amend the Native Land Ordinance. Bill brought in, read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time next sitting day. PETTY SESSIONS. Sir. CARLETON asked for leave to bring in & Petty Sessions Court Bill. Bill brought in, read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time next sitting day. PRIVATE BILLS. Mr. CARLETON brought up the Report of the Joint Committee on Private Bills, declaring the Picton and Wairau Railway Bill to be a Private Bill. Report read, and ordered to lie on the table. ENDOWMENTS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE NATIVE RACE. Mr. JOLLIE moved for a Return of all Grants of land or other endowments heretofore made or sanctioned by His Excellency the present Governor or his predecessors in the Government of New Zealand for the benefit of the Native Race, and of all trusts created for carrying out the purposes for which such Grants of land or other endowments shall have been designed; also, if the objects for which the proceeds of the same shall have been heretofore expended. Motion agreed to. PETITION. Mr. COLENSO presented a Petition from Philip Jordan, a run-holder in Hawke’s Bay, complaining of annoyances from the Natives. The Petition being considered by the SPEAKER a Private one, could not be received, the thirty days allowed for the presentation of Private Petitions having expired. PRIVATE GRIEVANCE COMMITTEE. Mr. JOLLIE moved that the Report of the Private Grievance Committee on the Petition of Francis Williamson be printed. Agreed to. hawke’s bay petition. Mr. J. C. RICHMOND moved that the Report of the Select Committee on the Petition of the Inhabitants of Hawke’s Bay be printed forthwith. Agreed to. PAPERS. The following papers were laid on the table by Ministers;— 1. Further papers relative to the introduction of German Emigrants into the of New Zealand. ■» ; w 2. Return to an Order of the House Copy of all communications addressed to Ah* late or present Governor by Mr. Justice Johnston, relating to the execution of his functions as Commissioner, appointed by the Letters Patent of 28th May, 1861, for the purpose of determining any differences arising among the Ngatiawa Tribe who may claim proprietary rights in the land taken possession of by Her Majesty’s Forces at Taranaki, pursuant to the terms on which His Excellency Governor Browne accepted their submission.” public reserves act amendment bill.

The Honble. Mr. DOMETT moved the second reading of this Bill, explaining that it gave power to Superintendents to transfer Public Reserves to Corporations or Commissioners appointed by the Provincial Councils. Bill read a second time, and ordered to be committed presently. SUPPLY. The House then resolved itself into Committee of Supply, and, after a short time spent upon the Estimates, the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again next sitting day. DEBTOR AND CREDITOR’S BILL. This Bill, which come down from the Legislative Council, was, on the motion of the Honble. THOS. RUSSELL, referred to a Select Committee, consisting of Messrs. Cargill. Thomson, Curtis, W. Taylor, Cookson, and James Williamson. HOUSE IN COMMITTEE. The House then went into Committee on the Public Reserves Bill, the Panama Route Postal Bill, the Resident Magistrates Jurisdiction Extension Bill, and the Juries Bill. The Panama Route Postal Bill was reported without amendment, read a third time and passed, and ordered to be further considered in Committee next sitting day. NATIVE LANDS BILL. The Order of the Day being read for the Native Land Bill to be reported, The Honble. Mr. BELL, before moving the adoption of the Report of the Committee of the whole, asked the House to strike out the words “ with the advice of her Privy Council” in the 37th clause. The words, he said, were not material, and there were reasons why Her Majesty should be permitted to take advice as to her decision on the Bill in such way as she thought best. Mr. EOX asked the hon. member to state his reasons. , The Honble. Mr. BELL said the proposal was made at His Excellency’s request. Mr. STAFFORD said there was an express declaration in the Constitution Act that these words should be used in reserved Acts. It would be as well to allow the Bill to go to another place without delay, and it could there be altered if thought necessary. Dr. FEATHERSTON thought it essential that the •words should be retained. The Honble. Sir. BELL would not press the amendment.

Amendment negatived accordingly. The Honble. Mr. BELL moved that the title be “An Act to provide for the ascertainment ot the ownership of Native lands, and for granting certificates of title thereto, and for other purposes.” Mr. FOX moved that the title be “An Act to alter the provisions of the Treaty of Waitangi, and to legalise and facilitate direct purchase of land from the Natives by individuals.” After the amendment made last night, this Bill could not now be considered as for the benefit of the Natives. It was really for the legalization of direct purchase, and should be so stated. The Honble. Mr. DOMETT moved that the title be “ An Act for regulating the disposal of Native lands,” which was the title of the hon. member for k Rangitikei’s own Bill. .'I The Honble. Mr. BELL hoped the House would not make itself ridiculous by adopting the amendment proposed by the hon. member for Rangitikei. (Mr. Bell) had no objection to add to the title be proposed the words “ and for facilitating the disposal of Native lands.” Mr. J. C. RICHMOND hoped those words would be added. The whole gist of the Bill was to remove restrictions on the Natives disposing of their landsMr. FOX said his reason for moving his amendment was simply that tiie Act might state in the title what it really did. He had no objection, however, to let >t stand thus:—‘-To remove restrictions on the sale ot Native lands imposed by the Treaty of Waitangi.” The Honble. Mr. BELL could not agree to this, as interfering with the Royal prerogative, , Mr. JoLLIE thought the title of the Act should have some reference to abrogating the Queen’s right o pre-emption. Mr. FITZHERBERT supported Mr. Fox’s amendment. It was the legitimate conclusion to be drawn from the preamble. He was at a loss to know why they should not in this, as in all other cases, fairly describe the Bill by its title, Ministers seemed so afraid of their own Act, that they dare not give it lts name. ' ... Mr. BRANDON took the same view; the Bdi really was an alteration of the Treaty of Waitangb and there should be an allusion to it in the title.

■ : ' : " The Honble. Mr. BELL then formally moved that the title be “ An Act to provide for the ascertaiflment of the ownership of Native lands, and for granting certificates of title thereto, and for regulating the disposal of Native lands, and for other purposes.” Mr. FOX moved that after the words “Native lands” be added “ and for the removal of the restrictions on the sale of the lands of the Natives imposed by the Treaty of Waitangi.” And the question being put on Mr. Fox’s amendment, the House divided, as follows; Ayes, 10—Messrs. Fox, Featherston, W. Taylor, Rhodes, Fitzherbert, Munro, John Williamson, O’Rorkc, Brandon, and Jollie. Noes, 20— Messrs. Moorhouse, Wilson, Cookson, Colenso, Munro, Curtis, Domett, Watt, Cargill, James Williamson, Saunders, Atkinson, Russell, Thomson, Wood, J. C. Richmond, Carle ton, Stafford, G. Graham, and Bell. The Honble. Mr. BELL’S motion was then put and Agreed to. Ordered that the Bill bo transmitted to the Legislative Council for their concurrence therein; MONDAY SITTING. The Hon. Mr. WOOD moved that the House at its fising adjourn till Monday at noori. Agreed to. adjournment; . 'flic Sale for Ndn-paynjent of Rates Bill and the tiind Revenue Appropriation Act 1858 Amendment Bill, having been postponed till ne*t week, the House adjourned at five minutes past seven o’clock. MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 8m The Speaker took the Chair at 12 o’clock. further power to TARANAKI petition committee. Mr. FOX moved, “ That further power be given to the Taranaki Petition Committee to enquire into and report upon all matters calculated to meet the prayer pf the Petitioners whose petition was referred to that Committee, and that the Resolution by this House on the motion of Mn FitzGerald, be referred to the Committee.” Agreed to. AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL ACCOUNTS. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON moved, “That there be laid on the table of this House, as soon as practicable, copies of the statements of Receipts and Expenditure of the Province of Auckland, presented to the Provincial Council thereof from its first Session to that of 1862, together with the Reports of the Audit Committees appointed to examine such statements, and the Reports of all Financial Committees appointed by the said Council within the said period j also copies of the Audit Act, and of the several Appropriation Acts passed by the Legislature of that Province.” Agreed to.

NELSON WASTE LANDS. Hon. Mr. DOMETT moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Nelson Waste Lands Regulations, remarking that the Bill had passed the Provincial Council almost unanimously. Bill read a first time, ordered to bo printed, and to be read a second time to-morrow. MILITIA BILL. Hon. Mr. DOMETT moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the Regulation of the Militia. He proposed to refer the Bill to a Select Committee, together with the Bill prepared by the late Government but not introduced to the House. After some remarks from Mr. FOX, the motion was agreed to. Bill read a first time, and ordered to be printed and referred to a Select Committee, consisting of Messrs. (}. Graham, Colonel Nixon, Watt, Atkinson, and Ward, with power to confer with any similar Committee appointed by the Legislative Council. Hon. Mr. WOOD brought up the Report of the Select Committee on Land Claims, which was read £nd ordered to be printed forthwith. The following is the Report:— “The Committee to which the Report of the Land Claims Commissioner has been referred has very carefully considered the various cases which have been brought under the consideration of the Commissioner, and the Committee is of opinion that there are still individual cases of hardship arising from the terms of the legislation on this subject. “The Committee beg, therefore, to recommend that an Act be passed during the present Session having for its object the final settlement of the Land Claims, and to suggest that the Act in question be based upon the following principles “ To exclude from its operation all those who—- “ 1. lathe first place have received Grants for the land which they actually bought.

“ 2. Secondly, those who suffered their claims to lapse by their own default. “ 3. Thirdly, those who voluntarily entered into an agreement with the Government (not being under duress) for the surrender of their claims in exchange for Scrip, Money, or Debentures.

“That any Claimant not excluded by the preceding • provisions should be allowed to present a Memorial to a Judge of the Supreme Court setting forth the grounds upon which he claims any award or further Grant of land, and that the Judge should determine (after such evidence as he might think fit to require as to the allegations in the Memorial) whether there was in equity and good conscience any ground for such further award. And if the Judge should certify his opinion to that effect, he should direct certain issues to be tried by a Jury of six, impannelled from the special jury lists to assess the amount of land to be granted. “ And that then the Governor should issue a right of selection for the number of acres awarded by the Jury, to be selected generally out of the Waste Country Lands of the Province in which the claim was situate, “ in the meanwhile the surplus lands, and the blocks mentioned in the Land Claims Commissioner’s Report should be handed over to the Province of Auckland. “ The Committee further recommend that the time for sending in the Memorial to a Judge of the Supreme Court be limited to a period not extending beyond the 31st day of March, 1863. Memorandum appended by Mr. Carleton. “ I have agreed to this Report, notwithstanding its imperfection, being desirous of securing such benefit, at least, as is proposed to be conferred upon the Claimants or Grantees.” NATIVE LAND PURCHASE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT BILL. This Bill not having come up from the printers, the second reading was made an Order of the day for Wednesday next. The Petty Sessions Court Bill and the Auckland Waste Land Act Amendment Act, (Uomett’s) being in a like position, were also postponed. MESSAGES FROM HIS EXCELLENCY. Messages No. 13 and 14 were received from Ilis Excellency, transmitting additional Estimates of general expenditure for 1862-1863. Ordered to he considered in Committee of Supply. Also, Message No. 15, transmitting the Land Revenue Appropriation Act, 1862 (No. 2). Bill reed a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time to-morrow. Also, Message No. 16, transmitting the Appropriation Act * i Bill read a first time, ordered to bo printed, and to be read a second time on Wednesday. Also Message No. 17, transmitting a Bill to alter the Civil List, which was read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time to-morrow, THE RESIDENT MAGISTRATES JURISDICTION EXTENSION ACT Was further considered in Committee, reported with amendments, ordered to be considered to-morrow. THE JURIES BILL Was also further considered in Committee, and ordered to be further considered to-moirow. SUPPLY. The House went into Committee of Supply, and considered the additional Estimates sent down in Message 13 and 14, which were agreed to, with the exception of £SO extra salary to the Resident Magistrate, Akaroa, £9,581 was also granted for the Militia service. Progress was then reported, and leave obtained to sit again to-morrow. the sale for non-payment of rates bill Was postponed till to-morrow. THE PUBLIC RESERVES ACT AMENDMENT BILL Was further considered in Committee, and ordered to be further considered to-morrow. No more business being on the paper, the House then adjourned at five o’clock. TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9m. The Speaker took the Chair at 12 o'clock. MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR. Message No. 18 was received from His Excellency, transmitting draft of the Native Purposes Appropriation Act, 1862. , Bill read a first time, ordered to be printed, and read a second time to-morrow. Also Message No. 19, informing the House that the Governor had assented, in the name of Her Majesty, to the following Bills: — “ Anns Act Continuance Act, 1862.’ “Joint Stock Companies Act Amendment Act, 1862.”

“ Military Supplies Customs Act, 186’2.” “ Bills of Sale Registration Amendment, Act, l£tG2.” BAY OF ISLANDS SETTLEMENT. Mr. CARLETON asked the Colonial Secretary what course the Government intend to pursue in the matter of the Bay of Islands Settlement, to be formed under the provisions of the Bay of Islands Settlement Act, 1858. Also, in the event of such settlement not being formed, whether compensation will be allowed for losses by owners of land taken, or proposed to be taken, by the Government under the provisions of the tuoresaid Act, suffered through the operation of that

Hon. Mr. DOMETT replied that he was not at present exactly in a position to say what course the Government would pursue in this matter, but be would inform the hon. member as soon as it was determined upon. STANDING ORDERS SUSPENSION. Hon. Mr. DOMETT moved That the Standing Orders relative to the various stages in the passing of Bills be suspended for the remalrider ot the Session. Ihirty-three rriemberS only being present, the question could not be put, the presence of tliirty-fiVe being necessary for the suspension of Standing Orders. PRECEDENCE TO GOVERNMENT BUSINESS. Hon, Mr. DOMETT moved, That Government business have precedence on the Order Paper for the remainder of the Session. Agreed to. TAMPERING WITH TlfE CHAMBER CLOCK.

Mr. FOX moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the circumstances under which, and by whose authority, the clock was put back on Friday last, after the arrival of the usual hour for Mr. Speaker to leave the Chair. Such Committee to consist of Mr. Carleton, Mr. Jollie, Mr. O’Rorkc, and Mr. Saunders. On the night in question, ho said, during a discussion on the Native Lands Bill, himself and another hon. member observed with surprise one of the messengers of the House putting back the clock from about twenty-three minutes to six to half-past five. By the Standing Orders the Speaker should have left the Chair at half-pest five. Had ho done so the discussion would riot have .been concluded till the evening sitting, and in the meantime hon. members might have discovered, as they had since done, that a clause of the Bi”. had not the effect which they had supposed it wou’d have, that it was in fact a delusive sham, and if they could not have altered it they might at all events have had an opportunity of expressing their views upon it. This, however, was prevented by the very unusual and unparliamentary proceeding to which he had referred, and ho thought it was highly desirable the House should know by whose authority the clock was put back on that occasion; for he believed that strictly the passing of that Bill was rendered illegal thereby, the House being, in fact, not legally sitting at the time when it was passed through its lust stages. Without any reference to that, however, hut on the ground of principle alone, it was desirable the House should know on what grounds and on whose authority this very irregular proceeding took place. Mr. CARTER seconded the motion.

The SPEAKER, after putting the question before the House, said it would not perhaps be considered intrusive if he made a few remarks on this matter (hear, hear). The hon. member for Kangitikei was under some misapprehension with regard to the state in which the Bill was at the time in question. The House would remember that the Bill hud passed, and the title was being discussed. At half-past five he was about reporting to the House the result of the final division on the title, and the only question remaining was that of sending a Message to the Legislative Council requesting their concurrence in the Bill. He had been given to understand that the House was anxious that no further delay should take place, and that the Legislative Council was in fact waiting to receive the Bill, so as to read it a first time and fix a day for the second reading* It was quite competent lor him to retain the chair after the time had past till he had announced the result of the division, because there was precedent for that in the English House, but no longer. The practice of leaving the chair at half-past five o’clock, however, was one that had not been adhered to with strict fidelity. It had been his practice, and the practice of the Chairman of Committees also, when the business of the House would be expedited thereby, to retain the chair for a few minutes, as when some hon. member was near the conclusion of his speech, or some business just on the point of being concluded; and in this case the question of sending the Bill to the Legislative Council being the only question left to put, he told the messenger to go up and stop the clock at half-past five. The clock really was three minutes too fast, and the time actually occupied beyond the half hour by the House was not above three or four minutes. He quite agreed with theiion. WCtribe? for Rangitikei that the proceeding was not rega'ar if not quite unjustifiable, and begged ,the House to accept his apology fur it. (Cheers.) Mr. FOX, after that explanation, requested permission to withdraw the motion. Some further remarks were then made by Messrs. Bell, Fox, Domett, and Stafford; Mr. Bell stating that when the Native Lands Bill was in Committee, he had particularly explained, with reference to the clause referred to by Mr. Fox, the difference made by the 2s. 6d. an acre tax between Maori and European title. They did not want to tax the Maories, os any other way of imposing the tux would in reali’y come to.

Mr. CARLETON considered the proceedings with this Bill had been legal,—though they would not have been had the circumstances occurred before the Bill was passed,—the sending of a Message to the Legislative Council being unnecessary under the Standing Orders of the HouseMotion withdrawn by leave. MESSAGES FROM THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. A Message was received from the Legislative Council, informing the House that they had passed with amendments the following Bills; The Crown Grants Bill, 'the Steam Navigation Bill, the Marine Boards Bill, the Crown Lands Bill, and the Gold Fields BiH. Amendments ordered to be considered to-morrow. Also,' that they had passfcd a Bill to amend the Native Districts Regulation* Act, a Bill to amend the Native Circuit Courts Acg'a Bill to continue delegations of powers from the Governor notwithstanding a change of Governor, and a Bill amending the Interpretation Act, 1858, and for denning the time when Acts of the General Assembly shall come into operation, to which Bills they desired the concurrence of the House. These Bills werff" read a first time, and ordered for second reading tomorrow. ESTIMATES PRINTED WITH JOURNALS. Mr. STAFFORD moved, That, with a view of enabling a comparison to be made of the respective expense of ’ similar departments of Government in different parts of the colony, the Estimates passed by the House this Session he printed in the Appendix to the Journals of the House in the same shape as heretofore. Motion agreed to. TARANAKI PETITION. Mr. FOX brought up the Report of the Select Committee on the losses sustained by the Taranaki settlers in the late war. The Committee recommended to tiic House the following Resolutions: — “ That whereas it is expedient to restore the Province of Taranaki, and to reinstate the inhabitants; and whereas the jloss suffered by the settlers of Taranaki amounts to thp sura of £191,000, estimated on the basis of the award made hj’ the Commissioner, Mr. Sewell: It is/esolved by this Committee:—That the sum of £200,000 ought to be raised by Loan repayable with intenfit, and by a sinking fund, to enable the Governor acting with the advice ol his Responsible Ministers to reinstate the said Province of Taranaki and the 7 inhabitants thereof in such manner as may ensure a final and complete reinstatement of the same. “ The above Loan to be raised on the security of the General Government of the colony, but to be a special charge as between the.colony and Taranaki on the revenues (land and ordinary) of the said Province of Taranaki as at present bounded.”

THE PUBLIC RESERVES ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The amendments made in this bill in committee of the whole were adopted, and the bill read a third time and passed.

CIVIL LIST BILL. On the motion of the COLONIAL TREASURER this bill, founded on the resolutions passed in committee of supply, was read a second time and ordered to ho committed presently. AUCKLAND WASTE LANDS ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

On the motion of the hon. THOMAS RUSSELL this bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed presently. LAND REVENUE APPROPRIATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Hon. COLONIAL TREASURER moved the second reading of this bill, explaining that its object was to repeal sections 5 and 6 of the Land Revenue Appropriation Act, 18.08, by which a sixth part of the Land Revenue of the Provinces was to be reserved to form a fund for the future extinguishment of native title. The present bill had been more than once passed by this House, but rejected in the Legislative Council. Ho believed, however, that there would bo no further dilhculty there in the way of passing the Act. BUI road a second time and ordered to be committed presently.

SALE FOR NON-PAYMENT OF RATES BILL. ? Hon. COLONIAL SECRETARY moved the second reading of this bill, explaining that the purpose of the bill Was to empower Provincial Governments and Local Boards to sell land for non-payment of rates, under certain restrictions, and to prevent any land being so sold except under this Act, When rates were 28 days in nrrear they might be registered as an equitable aharge against the land, and if unpaid for twelve months further an order for sale* might be obtained from the Supreme Court and the land sold, after three months’ notice in the Government Gazette.

Mr. REN ALL hoped such an important bill as this, —so materially affecting Provincial Legislature —would not be pressed through this session. Some legislation, ho admitted, was necessary, but by this bill great difficulty would be thrown in the way of Local Boards. Mr. COLENSO thought the bill was a very simple one which could easily be amended in committee, and one which the provinces would be very thankful for. Mr. STAFFORD referred to its being very doubful whether the Provincial Councils had the power to touch real property at all. This Act would remove the doubt and confirm the principle of rating—a plan of which he very much approved. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON confirmed Mr. Stafford’s remarks as to the utility of the bill; and referred to the g'reat difficulties which had been found in the Province of Auckland by the Local Boards in recovering rates.

Mr. DOMETT having replied, the bill was read a second t : mo and ordered to be committed presently. Termination op session. Mr. REN ALL inquired if the report was true that the Government intended to conclude the session on Saturday next. This had been a short session, and he thought it was impossible business could be got through satisfactorily by that day.

Hon. Mr. DOMETT said there were a number of hon. members going away on that day, who could not be forced to stay, and there might not be a quorum after that day. If a quorum remained the Government would go on so long as there was anything to go on with.

Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON reminded the Colonial Secretary that in committee of supply the Colonial Treasurer named the 14th as the day to which the Government had calculated the expenses of the Assembly, and it was not till then' that any arrangements were made for going away.- , Hon. Mr. WOOD said it then appeared to'the Government that business could lie got through by that time, and it would evidently be very inconvenient to prolong it further, especially as the Governor had engagements on the West Coast which had already been put off and could not well be postponed again. COMMITTEE. The House then went into committee on the Civil List Bill, Juries Bill, Resident Magistrates’ Jurisdiction Extension Bill, Auckland Waste Lands Act Amendment Bill, Land Revenue Appropriation Act Amendment Bill, the Sale for Non-payment of Rates Bill. The Civil List Bill was reported without amendments, read a third time and passed; the remaining bills were reported with amendments; ordered to bo considered to-morrow. The House then adjourned at about twenty minutes to five o’clock. WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER lOtii. The SPEAKER took the chair at five minutes past* five o’clock. message ehom the govkhnok. Message No. 20 was received from his Excellency, informing the House that he had assented in the name of her Majesty to the following bills: —- The Election Petitions Amendment Act; The Summary Procnduro on Bills Act; The Trustees Relief Act; The Law Practitioners Act Amendment Act; The Birds Protection Act; The Miners Representation Act; The Representation Act; The Supreme Court Amendment Act; The Native Reserves Act Amendment Act; and The Land Registry Act Amendment Act.

SUPPLY. —TARANAKI COMPENSATION. The House having rciolretl itself into a committee of supply, Mr. FOX moved—“ That whereas it is expedient to restore the Province of Taranaki, and to reinstate the inhabitants; and whereas the loss suffered by the settlors of Taranaki amounts to the sum of £191,000, estimated on the basis of the award made by the Commissioner, Mr. Sewell: It is resolved by this committee: That the sum of £200,000 ought to be raised by loan repayable with interest, and by a sinking fund, to enable the Governor acting with the advice of his Responsible Minsters to reinstate the said Province of Taranaki and the inhabitants thereof in such manner as may ensure a final and complete reinstatement of the same. The above loan to be raised on the security of the General Government of the colony, but to bo a special charge as between the colony and Taranaki on the revenues (land and ordinary) of the said Province of Taranaki as at present bounded,” —and explained the means by which the committee had arrived at their estimate of the amount of loss. The £25,000 already paid on Mr. Sewell’s award would have to be deducted from the amount here proposed. Hon. Mr. DOMETT said the resolution entirely met the view of the Government, with the exception perhaps of the words •' at present bounded,” and expressed almost exactly what the Government had already decided on. With respect to the loan the Government had resolved not to ask at present for a million as at first proposed. He should still like to see that carried out, being convinced of the advantage of it; but it would be remembered that the Colonial Treasurer had stated at first that as it was intended to charge the interest in the Northern Island, the Government would not press it against the wishes of the members of the Northern Island. The majority of the Northern members he now found preferred having no loan raised at all for the purpose, and the Middle Island members objected to the raising of any such loan based on the security of the general revenue. The Government proposed therefore toask foronly half a million, and include in that this £200,0U0 for Taranaki compensation. There would also be,£ 150,000 at least for Commissariat advances which the colony was bound in honor to repay. The member for Wallace had proposed to pay it by £20,000 a year, but the House being decided on a very extensive steam service there would not bo sufficient revenue left lor that. They therefore proposed to charge it on the loan, the remainder of which would be devoted to roads, &c., with the consent of the different Provincial Governments. If this resolution was passed lie would lay before the House to-morrow a bill to raise £300,000 devoted to these objects. Mr. STAFFORD heard with great regret the decision come to by the Government with regard to thii loan, and be was surprised at the grounds named for that decision. It was quite new to him that the Middle Island members had objected to the loan, as stated by the hon. member. The loan as originally proposed would have been infinitely more advantageous every way than the mere payment of liabilities now proposed —more favourably raised and reproductive in itself. 11c could not but look on this change as a proof of divided counsels in the cabinet, and it went far to shake the confidence which he had thought he might place in it. He hoped the Government would be induced to reconsider its decision. Hon. Mr. BELL was sorry to hear the remarks of the hon. member, who had not really shown the confidence in the Government which they had expected. He (Mr. B.) had stated distinctly from the first that this proposal would not be proceeded with except by the consent of the Noi them members on whom it was to be charged. The hon. member was placing the Government in a most unfair position in staling that ho would withdraw his confidence in the Government for doing simply whnt they had stated from the first they should do. The Government had reason to know that the proposal would he unacceptable to the Wellington members and to the majority of the Auckland members, and if it could not have done otherwise than withdraw the proposal. Moreover he was perfectly certain that the constituencies of the Southern part at all events of the Middle Island, would not bo satisfied to have their revenue made the security for this loan. Mr. STAFFORD made sonic further observations. If the majority of the Northern members were totally opposed to the proposal the Government were quite right in withdrawing it; but he would like to see that opposition placed on record. Mr. WATT thanked the committee for the liberal measures they proposed, and expressed his gratification at the comprehensive nature of the examination made by Mr. Sewell; but from the peculiar circumstances under which the inquiry was made, it did not meet the whole of the losses, and the amount now determined on must not be considered as anything like a real and total reimbursement of the settlers, owing to the length of time over which this affair had extended.

Mr. FOX asked leave to amend the motion by inserting the words “ a sum not exceeding ” instead of the words “ the sum of.” Amendment agreed to. Motion as amended put and agreed to nan con. ELECTRIC T 1C LEG U AI*JIS. Mr, CARGILL, in moving—“ That in order to meet the requirements of the public service and of the various private interests within the colony, it is essential that electric telegraph communication bo established at the earliest possible date, between the several

provinces and the seat of government. That the Government be recommended whenever the state of the public revenues will permit, to take the necessary steps for obtaining the construction of such lines of telegraph as will accomplish the above purpose, either by constructing the same nt the public expense, or by granting a guarantee of reasonable minimum dividend to private parties willing to undertake the work. That this House will sanction the expenditure of such sum or sums of money as the Government if its discretion may incur in giving effect to the foregoihg rezolutions,” —remarked that he intended this merely as strengthening the hands of the Government in carrying out a matter which he knew was their wish. Electric telegraphic' communication he considered a matter of the first importance in New Zealand, and would be one of the strongest bonds of union between the different parts of the country. Hon. Mr. CROSBIE WARD said electric telegraphs were now beginning to be seriously wanted, and none could bo more ready to sec this than the Government, for connecting the different Governments of the provinces and bringing them into communication with the General Government. Ministers were much gratified with the resolution proposed, accepted it fully, and thanked the hon. member for Bruce for bringing it forward.

Mr. MOORHOUSE wanted to know if the Government would at once begin to carry out the resolution. Mr. DOMETT said they would as soon as the slate of the public funds would permit. Mr, MOORHOUSE said that there was no difficulty in this matter; and if the Government would favor the establishment of telegraphs by the Provincial Govrrnments, and leave them the revenues desirable therefrom, he would put himself into communication at once with the Superintendent of Otago for the erection of a line of telegraph between the two provinces. Uon, Mr. BELL said that the hon. member might rely that any way of making a start in this matter would receive the immediate attention of the Government.

Mr. FOX remarked that as in the present state of affairs the telegraph could not possibly be carried beyond Wellington: that was an additional reason for making Wellington the seat of government.

Motion agreed to. MANUAL OF NEW ZEALAND BOTANY.

Dr. MONRO moved in committee of supply—“ That a respectful address be presented to his Excellency, requesting him to recommend to this House to make provision to the extent of £SOO for the expenses attending the publication of a Manual of New Zealand Botany,” The hon. member made a few explanations in support of his motion, and read the following memo, by Dr. Knight:—'“ This work is to contain an introduction to Botany, and descriptions of New Zealand plants, together with the ferns, mosses, hepitacise and lichens. The whole to be written in English, and to include the latest discoveries. The work might come into one thick volume, to be S(fld for 305., which Dr. Hooker would do for £3OO. Dr. Hooker would put off the flora of other countries which he has under consideration if the Government of New Zealand would decide early. Mr. Reeves is the only publisher in London who would undertake the publication at all, and only on 100 copies being guaranteed on day of sale at retail price. The total cost of the work including 100 copies to be £450. It is also proposed that the work should be illustrated by a folio of plates; but this would be for alter consideration, and would necessarily be a work of time. The neighbouring colonies have reluctantly been compelled to abandon the idea of publishing plates at the same time as the letter press. It may be worthy of notice that Mr. Benthara is at present at work on the Australian Flora, for which the Anstralian colonics grant him £350 per volume;—it will ntn to seven or eight volumes. Drs. Harvey and Sunder arc busy at the Cape Flora; Gricsbach at the West India Flora; and the Ceylon Flora is in the hands of Mr. Thwaites. If the proposed New Zealand Flora were to include the seaweeds it would then form two volumes, and the additional expenditure about £IOO. “Cuakles Knight.

“ 3rd September, 1862.’’ After some remarks from Mr. MGORIIOUSE and Mr. COLENSO the motion was agreed to. The CHAIRMAN then reported the three resolutions to the House.

Ordered that the resolutions be considered next sitting day. SUSPENSION OE STANDING ORDERS. Hon. Mr. DOMETT moved the suspension for the remainder of the session of the standing orders relative to the various stages in the passing of bills and the number of quorum. Mr, SAUNDERS thought the last part of the motion would be leaving too much power in the hands of a few members Mr. CARLETON remarked that if the quorum were not suspended they would leave it in the power of a few members to stop all business. Mr. BRANDON opposed the motion. Mr. STAFFORD proposed that instead of dispensing with a quorum they should reduce it. Hon. Mr. DOMETT proposed to amend the motion by inserting the words “ until Saturday next inclusive.” ‘ Mr. CARLETON could see no use in that, for until Saturday next there would be no difficulty in getting a quorum; and he could not persuade himself, considering the state of the business, that the House would be prorogued on Saturday next. Mr. FOX spoke against the motion. The proposed amendment being put was agreed to. Some further remarks were made by Mr. WILSON, Mr. BRANDON, and Mr. FITZHERBERT, who referred to the plan proposed as a forming a very inconvenient precedent; after which the hon. Mr. DOMETT expressed bis willingness to withdraw the words “ and the number of quorum,” which were accordingly struck out, pro forma on the motion of the hon. Mr. Ward, Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON wished the Government to state distinctly whether they could finish the business by Saturday. Hon. Mr. DOMETT said that depended on lion, members themselves. If they chose to waste time in unnecessary speeches it could not be done; but be was certain the business might be got through by that day if hon. members allowed the bills to go through without unnecessary speeches. Some further discussion took place, after which the amended motion was agreed to, reading as follows: “That the standing orders relative to the various stages in the passing of bills bo suspended until Saturday next inclusive.” PAPERS. Mr. DOMETT laid on the tabic—“ Copy of the grant conveying certain portions of the Town Belt of the City of Wellington to the Wesleyan Body.” MESSAGES FKOM TUB LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Were received informing the House that they had passed -the .Natives’ Land Bill with amendments, to which they requested the concurrence of the House. Amendments ordered to be considered to-morrow; Also the Fanama Route Postal Bill without amendments; And the Naturalization Bill with amendments, which were ordered to be considered presently; And that they had adopted the amendments made by the House in the Public Reserves Act; Also, that they had passed a bill to amend the Militia Act, to which they desired the concurrence of the House. Bill read a first time, ordered to bo printed, and to be read a second time presently.

NATIVE LAND PURCHASE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT

Mr. FOX in moving the second reading of this Bill, said the House had passed an Act altering entirely our relations with the Maorics with regard to the purchase of their lands—an Act abrogating the Queen’s right of preemption, and authorizing direct purchase from the Natives. Whether that would become law was a question for the future; but whether it should or should notj become law was a matter indifferent to the Bill which ho now introduced. Hon. members must be well aware that nothing could be more injurious to the prospect of restoring peaceful relations with the Natives than that anything of the nature of a breach of faith, in so important a matter as the right of disposing of their own Waste Lands, should arise between the Government of the Colony and the Natives. Those who were acquainted with the great anxiety in the miuds of those possessed of capital to make direct purchase, and the very little regard which that class had at all times paid to the existing laws of the Colony forbidding transactions] with the Native lands, must be well aware (or rather, perhaps, not an hour had elapsed since the House passed the second reading, or even since the Bill was introduced) before parties ivould bo engaged in endeavouring to negotiate with the Natives for the purchase and leasing of their lands; and those transactions would go on with an accelerated ratio till it was known whether Her Majesty assented to the Act or not. Should it bo assented to, it must be 18 months, at all events, before any single Native would bo in a position to negotiate with a purchaser for the sale of land, under the provisions of that Act. But suppose the Act should not become law. What would be the elfect upon the miuds of the Natives, if, after having entered into a variety of negotiations, agreements, &c., and completed transactions for the disposal of their lands, they should bo told by the highest authority in the country, that what they had been told was the law by a swarm of persons, during the last twelve months, Her Majesty had refused to assent to, and ali those bargains were void? But even if the Act should actually come into operation alter the lapse of such a period as ho had mentioned, we should probably find that in the meantime this state of things had grown

up—parties had commenced negotiations immediately, for the purchase of particular blocks, which would have been followed by others who, chinking heavier money-bags, would have induced the Natives to repudiate their first bargains, and enter into fresh negotiations for the same land. Some hon. members would say, perhaps, that the Natives had never been guilty of such conduct. He might, if he chose, adduce transactions in which the Natives had so repudiated their just bargains; but at all events it might be made to appear to the Natives a fair transaction, by promising to pay off the first party, &c. This would go on for 18 months, till there would be a series of layers of negotiations, one on the top of theother,forthe same lands; and what would be the state into which the country would be plunged into, whether the Act be assented to or not? He might be told that the Native Land Purchase Ordinance met the necessities of the case, and, therefore, it was only necessary to kave the law as it stood. The first clause of that ordinance did undoubtedly prescribe penalties for this illegal trafficking with the Natives for their lands, but the House and the country were well aware that the Act had been all but inoperative, and instead of being a safeguard against this state of things, might be, and would be, treated as waste paper. One part of his Act was to make the penalties for this offence of a higher character. A man would chance the imposition of a reduced fine, bearing no proportion to the magnitude of the tranaction; but if the penalty were of a character which subjected the party to fine and imprisonment, upon conviction in the Supreme Court, that would have its effect. He apprehended hon. members “ going in for a slice ” would think twice before entering into these negotiations with the prospect of a conviction for a misdemeanor, and a heavy fine and imprisonment for, perhaps, seven years. But even that penalty would not be sufficient unless they altered the remaining part of the clause, which provided that prosecutions were only to be instituted by the Surveyor General, or officers duly authorised for purpose. No government would take upon itself the responsibility of going to war with a whole township, as that provision would require if strictly carried out; and it had not been found desirable to put the law into force through the medium of an officer appointed by ibo Government. The Act that he proposed, therefore, followed the precedent of the Act passed by the Provincial Council of Auckland some yeare ago, which so far as that Province was concerned, got rid of that clause, and made it open to any person to institute prosecution for offences against the Ordinance. With this provision he thought the House would bo doing all that the law could to prevent a very injurious state of things—so serious, in fact, that he was astonished that the Ministry should not themselves have taken some step in this direction at the time when they introduced the Native Lands Bill. It must be obvious to all that that state of land sharking would be quite certain to commence in a few days, which had never yet been approached in magnitude—a large portion of the population would be applying every energy to the purchase of land to the utmost extent of their purse; nay, further, borrowing money for it, and pledging their very beds, as was done in the time of Fitzroy’s proclamation-—a state of things which the Government ought not to suffer, if they could by any possibility prevent it. He would be glad to agree to any more operative plan the Government might propose; but it was absolutely necessary to do something; for ho looked with serious apprehension on what the results might be in the next 18 months, from the action of individuals relying on the Native Lands Bill becoming law. He therefore implored the Government to give him their assistance in passing this measure through the House.

Hhe lion. Mr. BELL admitted there was a danger from unlicensed traffic with the Natives, and if any way had been proposed by which a check could be put to it,' short of doing a very great injustice and hardship to a large number of people, the Government would have been very glad to have given it their very favourable consideration. But the principle on which this Bill proceeded was one which appeared to him at variance with principles of justice and fairness, and would not attain the end which his hor friend the mover proposed. Since the passing of the Native Lands Purchase Ordinance a large number of persons had been in the habit of making treaties with the Natives, in opposition to its provisions, and had attained holdings to a very considerable extent, and nothing had been done to punish them; so that those who had desired to obey the law were worse off. To make all intractions of this law strictly penal now, would do a great injustice, unless the House were prepared to apply the same rule to those who were the actual occupants of Native land at the present time. All lion, members must be well aware that it was no effect treaties with the Natives for land; and though the Government was well aware that there would be some land sharking, yet he believed the difficulties before the ascertainment of title would be so great to any one going in to make any secret treaty, and the competition also so great that he did not believe any material danger of this would ever occur. But for reasons of policy it was better not to pass such a measure as this. The first direction, he believed, to which the Natives’ minds would be turned would be to obtaining some kind of survey of their lands- Supposing there might be difficulty in England in the affirmation of this Bill, he apprehended there would be no difficulty on the part of this legislature in authorizing the Government to take the following course:— He proposed to take advantage of the feeling which would be created in the Native mind to commence the survey of several blocks of Native lands, where for the past few years the Natives had earnestly requested him to assist in laying out their boundaries, though, of course, he ’intended to use every effort in his power to prevent them from entering, in the meantime, into any treaties for the sale of their land. Individuals, moreover, would be doing a great public benefit if they advanced money to the Natives for the purpose of having their land surveyed. He apprehended there would be no further objection raised by the Crown to the acquisition of Native territory by individuals, for a man would be perfectly well aware that it would be vain for him to deal with myths of Native boundaries, and would see that without a proper sur ■ vey his money would be wasted. The whole tendency of the Native Lunds Bill would be towards that which would be productive of great public advancement, viz., the commencement of surveys of Native lands. On these two grounds, therefore —that it was not fair to put those who had broken the law, by the occupation of Native lands, in a position infinitely better than those who had refrained from breaking the law, but desired, now that the law was changed, to take some advantage of it; and, secondly, that it would be au advantage to the Natives to obtain advance of capital for surveying their lauds-a transaction not illegal at the present time, but which might be held to come within the terms of the proposed Bill, if informations were laid by common informers. On these to grounds he hoped the lion, member would not press this Bill, but trust to the Government to do their best to check anything that would lead to the slightest risk hereafter. Mr. COLENSO did not sec any real amendment of the Native Lands Purchase Ordinance except in the third clause. The second clause would be totally imperative at Hawke’s Bay. All the cases taken up for prosecution at Hawke’s Bay two years ago were so plain that it was the wonder of all that convictions were not obtained. The feeling created by the Nativ Lands Bill would, bo believed, be a good one; and naturally the passing of this Bill would have a very injurious effect. Ho did not believe that in Hawke’s Bay, or the country from there to the East Cape, there would be any land’sharking. For years to come there could be a difficulty in getting any land there, though the Natives would lease it. The choicest lands, in fact, was gone, and the Natives in that district were getting £4OOO a-year by rent for them. He could not support the Bill, as it would unsettle the Native mind, and the old sinners, who had occupied the best of the land, would escape.

Mr. CARLETON thought this Bill, with certain amendments, might relieve us of seme difficulties that might arise between the present time and that of the Native Lands Act coming into operation; but he had a difficulty in voting for this Bill, for he believed the Native Lands Purchase Ordinance was repugnant to British law, and was, in fact, not law at this moment. Further, that law was one made on purpose toi be broken The community had been trained up by the action of the legislature to the infraction of the law. The only effectual cure for that Act was to repeal it altogether; but if continued, let it bo amended so far as to act fairly on all. Let it have a retrospective affect so far as the broaches of the law now going on should no longcr continue. Let some special officer be anuoinlcd who should be held responsible for enforcing the law in every case. Unless the hon. member was prepared to introduce some effective provision of the kind he should not support the Bill, but take the first opportunity of repealing the Native Lands Purchase Ordinance itself. Mr JOHN WILLIAMSON thought the remarks of tno Native Minister, with reference to the survey of lands would have a very mischievous effect, in giving rise to the Injurious state of things referred to by the hon member for llangitikei; for if those transactions took place he could not but look forward to a crop of claims and private grievance petitions brought before the House that would rather astonish it; and if the Queen’s assent was not given to the Bill nothing could be said, after the observations made by the Native Minister, against those who had made these kind of advances, if they came to this house and asked it to pay back to them the money so advanced (a laugh.) [Mr. Bell asked what there was illegal in Natives borrowing money to survey their lands.] The hon.

~ ~~ ■~ > 'ons consideration, and after member had encouraged views advocated (very the survey of lands—the lands w»jmtations which camo buy if the Act were passed; for h-.,p on the Governor one would advance money for the su«n no { be able to not trust to be able to buy the land. R«.so directly at the House would make this compensation, in*, that the not see how the Government or any hon. gen- Native could stand 1 up and say they would not acceed lo sf the claims; and that they would be made he had not slightest shadow of a doubt. He was aware, that there were large sums of money entrusted to certain Jensons for the purchase of Native lands in the Wakatane and other districts,' and if they believed wkh the concurrence of the Government, that they were safe in going on with these purchases, any disappointment arising hereafter from the disallowance of the Bill, the Colony would be liable for.- He was thankful to the hon. member for Rangitikei for bringing the case before the House in the manner in which he had done, and he thought that the House should pause, before they rejected the measure; and would, so far rs they were able, put a stop to a system which, if left unchecked, must lead to difficulties, and put them into the position of having to compensate persons who had prematurely advanced money for snrueys on the authority Of the Government The effect of the rejection of this Bill would give encouragement to persons to proceed with these transactions, and would be fraught with mischief and danger to the country. Mr. MOORHOUSE objected to passing a Bill of this sort without hav'ng previously settled the amendment on the original Bill—the Native Xiands Bill—and he called on the hon mover to postpone the discussion till after the consideration of those amendment*. Failing that, he should be obliged to rote against the Bill.

Mr. CRACROPT WILSON said that if any law ever came under the category of class legislation, this would be one; and the fact of its imposing a penalty on one party and letting another, more guilty, go free, would be sufficient to lead him to vote against it. The only compensation which would bo given to anyone on such grounds as referred to by the member for Auckland West, would be the old verdict of “ serve him right ” (a laugh). Mr, J. C. RICHMOND considered the Bill would be totally inoperative, because there would be no possibility of proving occupation, &c.; but it would raise very disagreable litigation and unpleasant feeling; and it came unfortunately at a time when their aim had been to withdraw from the Statute book the penalties on the purchase and occupation of Native lands. The opinion of the country was not that if was a crime to purchase lands from the Natives, as the Bill would make it.

Mr. BRANDON thought such an Act necessary* and he should vote for it, if only to assist one of the clauses in the Native Lands Bill, viz., the clause making absolutely void every contract, promise, or engagement with regard to Native lands entered into before the Act should come intoopcration.Now, they all knew that that clause must be perfectly useless and a perfect sham, from their experience of what had taken place in contravention of the Native Land Purchaee Ordinance. This Bill was introduced to give more effect to that clause, and prevent farther violation of that Ordinance.

Mr. FOX, in replying, said, the<hon. member for the Bay did not seem to consider “ half a loaf better than no bread.” He (Mr. F.) thought that if they could not get as mnch as they wanted, they should take what they could get. The hou. member for the.Bay knew as well as be did that to attempt to enforce the law in past cases would be impossible, things having gone so far with the acquiescence of the Government: but was that any reason why they should not prevent for the future, the springing up of a new clas? of landsharks, given birth to by recent legislation of this House? He thought there was a great deal of force in the remarks of the hon. member for Auckland West. After what had been said by the Native Minister, encouraging people to advance money for the survey of Native lands—a thing which would be done under no circumstances except where the party had entered into negotiation for the purchase of the land (cries of dissent.) If the Native Lands Act fell through, surely those persons had a right to compensation for their losses in tranactions encouraged by the Native Minister. If within the next 18 months they allowed these transactions, in defiance of existing law, (even should this not be passed,) they would certainly leave it open for the parties engaged in them to come forward and say, “You have allowed us to expend money which we cannot recover;” and they would stand before this House in as good a position for compensation as many others who had obtained it. He should feel it his duty to divide the House on this Bill; though he believed he should not have many on his side, because there were many hon. members interested in a pledge to .support, these tranasactions “£n„thft pajt constituents,” of course (a laugh). Hon. Mr. BELL rose, in explanation to remora any misunderstanding that might exist as to what he bad said. Ho had never stated it to be the intention of the Government to encourage any land sharking, nor to encourage that kind of transaction to which the hon. member for Auckland West had referred; but what he said then he said now. There was nothing in the world to prevent the natives at the present moment borrowing any amount of money they please for the survey of their lands. There was no illegality in that: and the bon. member was just as much mistaken in saying that from anything he (Mr. Bell) had said, parties who advanced money would have a right, if the Lands Bill were disallowed, to come to this House for compensation, any more than they would if they gave the natives credit for anything else and could not get paid. He said it would be a public advantage that the Government should do everything it could to encourage the survey of native lands; and if the result of the knowledge of the fact that it was probable that the restrictions on obtaining native lands were about to be withdrawn, were to enable native lands to be extensively surveyed, he thought that was a thing to which the Government ought to be glad to give a great amount of encouragement to; and he had said he should be prepared, on the strength of a clause in the Native Lands Act itself, to recommend the expenditure of a sum of money in the survey of lands, the owners of which had long been asking him to do it. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON also wished to explain. He had understood the hon. member to say that he considered that it was desirable that surreys of native lands should be proceeded with; aud that he would be sorry to throw any discouragement in the way of private individuals making advances for that purpose [Mr. Bell; Hear, hear]; and what he (Mr. W.) had said was that those expressions would encourage persons to proceed in that way; and that in the event of the natives being unable to sell them those lands afterwards, in consequence of the bill not being assented to, those parties would be justified, from the encouraging words uttered by the Native Minister, in coming to this House for compensation, and he could not see how the House could refuse it. (Oh, oh.)

The question was then put that the bill be now road a second time, and the House dirided as follows:—<

Ayes 10; Messrs. Brandon, Featherston, o‘Borke, Munro, Fitzherbert, Carter, W. W. Taylor, John Williamson, Jollie, and Fox. Noes 21: Messrs. Colenso, Domett, Russell, Ward, Bell, J. C. Richmond, G. Graham, Wood, Watt, Atkinson, Wilson, A. J. Richmond, Carleton, Sanders, Mason, Moorhouse. Cookson, Curtis, Cargill, James Williamson, and Nixon. The bill was therefore lost. SUPPLY RESOLUTIONS. The CHAIRMAN reported from committee of supply the estimates as passed by the committee. Read a second time and adopted, APPROPRIATION BILL. Hon. COLON lAL TREASURER moved the second reading of the Appropriation Bill No discussion ensued, and the bill was read a second time, and ordered to be considered presently. CROWN GRANTS BILL. Hon Mr. WARD moved that the amendments made by the Legislative Council in this bill be adopted, and explained the alterations made, none of them seriously affecting the bill. ’ *v Motion agreed to, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL AMENDMENTS. The amendments made in the Legislative Council in the Crown Lands, Steam Navigation, Marine Boards, and Gold-fields’ Bills were agreed to by the House. THE JURIES BILL Was reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed. RESIDENT MAGISTRATE’S JURISDICTION EXTENSION BILL. On the orders of the day being road for this bill to be reported, a clause was inserted, on motion of Mr. Waring Taylor, providing for the execution of judgments obtained in the District Courts now abolished. _ The bill was then passed through its remaining stages. i - • THE AUCKLAND WASTE LANDS ACT AMENDMENT, BILL (NO. 2) Was reported, read a third time and passed, and ordered to be transmitted to the Legislative Council. THE LAND REVENUE APPROPRIATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL Was also reported and passed through its remaining stages.

SALE FOR NON-PAYMENT OF KATES BELL. ' On the motion of'the bon. Mr. Russell, a new dam# was inserted in this bill, which then passed its remain* ing stages.