General Assembly of New Zealand.

New Zealander, Volume XVIII, Issue 1716, 20 August 1862, Page 3

General Assembly of New Zealand.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. THURSDAY, JULY 31. The House met at 12 o'clock. Mr. WOOD moved an adjournment. Mr. STAFFORD, in seconding the motion for adjournment, said—Sir, with the leave of the House I will make a short statement of occurrences which it is right the House should be informed of. I have to state, sir, that on Tuesday last, shortly before the time appointed for the sitting of the House, I received a summons from His Excellency requesting me to attend him with a view to form a Ministry. I accordingly proceeded to Government House, and, at an interview with His Excellency, I stated certain reasons which at once compelled me respectfully to decline undertaking the office which His Excellency had been pleased kindly to request me to undertake. His Excellency was then pleased to call upon me to offer any suggestion in connection with the subject of my interview which I might think proper to make. I then said to His Excellency that there was in the House an hon. gentleman, the hon. member for Ellesmere (Mr. Fitzgerald), for whom a large amount of personal friendship and regard was very generally entertained by all parties in the House. That, owing to his absence from the House for several sessions, he was not identified with political parties within it, or with the animosities engendered by them, that I thought, therefore, that His Excellency might advantageously consult with Mr. Fitzgerald with respect to a Ministry being supplied to His Excellency. His Excellency was pleased to signify that he would act in conformity with my suggestion. With respect to what has since taken place, I will leave it to other hon. gentlemen to render such statements as they may think required. Mr. CARLETON suggested that the notices of motion should be proceeded with. Agreed to. Mr. GILLIES, pursuant to notice, moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the Relief of Trustees. Leave granted, Bill read a first time, ordered to bo printed, and to be read a second time on Tuesday next. A motion, standing in the name of Mr. Dillon Bell —For copies of all papers referring to the delegation of powers by His Excellency the Governor to the Superintendent of Southland under the " Waste Lands Act, 1858,"—lapsed, in consequence of the absence of the mover. Mr. WARD, in the absence of Mr. Domett, moved, —" That the Gold Fields Committee have leave to confer with any similar Committee appointed by the Legislative Council, and that power be given to such Committee to send for persons, papers, and records." Agreed to. Mr. R. GRAHAM postponed until Wednesday next the motion standing in his name—" That all correspondence between the Colonial Government and Mr. Morrison, the New Zealand Government agent, relative to sending game to this Colony, be laid on the table." Mr. WELD postponed until Wednesday next the motion standing in his name—" For the copy of any report from the Resident Magistrate at Mongonui of recent occurrences connected with the European and Maori crews of the whaling brig Prince Edward; or, if no such report has been yet received, that application be made to the Resident Magistrate to furnish a report on the subject." Mr. CARLETON moved—" That the report of the joint Committee on standing orders be adopted." Agreed to. Mr. FITZGERALD said he could not then give any explanation of his interview with His Excellency, With a view to forming a Ministry, as it might lead to discussion, and be prejudicial to the undertaking of Mr. Domett, as he understood that that gentleman was charged with the construction of a Government. Ho would, therefore, claim indulgence until some future time. The House then adjourned. FRIDAY, AUGUST 1. The House met at 12 o'clock. Some notices of motion were given, and Mr. DOMETT roso in his place and informed the House that he had been sent for by His Excellency the Governor, with a view to the formation of a Ministry, and that he had—with the greatest reluctance, and only at the earnest request of Sir George Greyundertaken the task. It was his desire to make as strong a Government as, taking into consideration the conflicting elements in that House, it was possible to construct. In accordance with this he had applied to the hon. member for Rangitiki (Mr. Fox) for his assistance, but that hon. gentleman would only ac"quiesce upon such conditions as he (Mr. Domett) could not consistently concede. He might say that the objections of the hon. member were quite just, and no more than might have been anticipated. He had then attempted to form a Ministry without the aid of that hon. member, and to that end he was sanguine of success. He believed he was in a fair way of succeeding, but he should claim the indulgence of the House for an adjournment until Tuesday next, by which time he expected to have matured his plans. At his interview with His Excellency he had laid projects before him that had met with his entire approval, and he believed that he would be enabled to construct a Government that would be acceptable alike to that House and to the country (cheers). Mr. WARD brought up Report of the Communications Committee. Report read, received, and ordered to be considered on Tuesday next. On the motion of Mr. FOX, the House adjourned ■ until Tuesday next. TUESDAY, AUGUST 5, 1862. The SPEAKER took the chair at noon. Mr. THOMSON presented a petition from Thomas Hughes relative to the losses sustained during the disturbances in this Province in 1846, for which he prayed compensation. Petition received. TiT«»-m?T> In reply to a question by Mr. FOX, the SPEAKER said that the commencement of the Session would be reckoned from the time when the Governor delivered his Speech, but that the rule requiring the presentation of a private petition within thirty days of the commencement no longer existed among their Standing Orders. Mr. DOMETT, by leave of the House, would now state the result of the negotiations which on Friday he had told the House he was engaged in. As he had then stated, when his Excellency sent for him and expressed a strong desire for him to undertake the task, he consented, and with the view of forming a strong Ministry, went at once to the hon. member, then at the head of the Government and asked him to accept a seat in the new Ministry. That hon. gentleman, after some discussion, replied that he could not take a lower position than that which he held before as Premier. as well as Native Minister, the post which was offered, him. He (Mr. Domett) could not possibly accede to that proposal, because it would put himself in a secondary position, and wuold, he believed, defeat the desired object of forming a Ministry strong enough to carry on the Government. Ho determined, therefore, to try and form a Ministry out of the ablest men of moderate opinions on both sides of the House. He therefore next offered seats to several other members of the previous Government—Mr. Sewell, Mr. Wood, and Mr. Ward, who, after various negotiations and discussions, ultimately declined to take seats in the Ministry, which he much regretted, as he thought they would have formed a Ministry acceptable to the House and to the country. In making these offers he thought he was not actuated by any adverse feeling to the Ministry or to the party to which they belonged. (Hear, hear.) The Ministry at present formed was as follows -.—Native Minister; Mr. Bell (hear, hear); Postmaster-General and Secretary for Crown Lands, Mr. Mantell; Attorney-General, pro tern., Mr. Gilhes; Colonial Secretary, himself (Mr. Domett); Members of the Executive Council, without office, Mr. 1. Russell and Mr. Tancred. The Colonial Treasureship he was keeping open in the hope that he might get some Auckland member to take that office, as it was due to that Province to give them more weight than they would otherwise have in the Ministry proposed. He had not sought the position he now held, and was not anxious to keep it longer than the necessities of the country appeared to require it. Tho Ministry was still short-handed in some respects, and he could only hope tho House would give them credit for having assumed the Government solely from the conviction that it was their paramount duty to tho Governor, the House, and the country, to endeavour to afford to tho House, as far fas was in their power, one chance of avoiding a result

of its difficulties, which by all would bo considered most deplorable. (Hear, hear.) !,„„„•„„ Mr POX expressed his gicat satisfaction at hearing theTtatcmcnt of the hon. member, that on receiving H?sSenc y % commands to form a Ministry, ho at once considered it his duty to open communication with him ( Mr Fox);, because, probably in consequence of the hon.' member not communicating with him for more than twenty-four hours, a general impression had sprun" up that that hon. member had first put himself into the hands of the extreme men of his own party, with the view of forming a Ministry excluding him (Mr. Fox). It was therefore with the greatest satisfaction he heard that the application to him was the first thing the hon. member did. [Mr. Domett said,, ho did not mean that he went straight from the Governor to Mr. Fox, but that it was always his intention to offer the hon. member a seat.] He (Mr. Fox) was extremely glad then to hear that the hon. member did not attempt any other combinations bafere ho made him the offer, and that though he was 24 hours before he communicated with him (Mr. Fox), it was not owing to any negotiations of a character with the extreme men of his own party, and to exclude ' Mr. FITZGERALD :—Sir, I hope to be allowed to claim the same indulgence which tho House has extended to the hon. member who has just spoken. I wish to explain what took place between His Excellency and myself, in order that it may not be supposed that I made any attempt to fonn a Msnistry and failed to do so. The only communication between His Excellency and myself was one in which I informed His Excellency definitely that, for reasons with which tho House has nothing to do, and which therefore I need not mention, it was not in my power to accept any office. Tho Governor was pleased to ask me to advise him as to what courso he should adopt. He stated that he had seen Mr. Stafford, who had declined to form a Ministry. Sir, I thought it my duty to advise His Excellency that there were no differences of opinion, so far as I could see, existing in the House of so substantial a nature as to preclude the formation of a Ministry consisting of tho ablest men on both sides of the House; but the leader of the party who opposed tho late Government having formally refused to undertake the task of forming a Ministry, I was of opinion that Buch a coalition could only be formed between members of the late Government and those who had held subordinate positions on the opposite side. His Excellency was pleased to request me to take twenty-four hours to consider what could bo effected, and what advice I should be prepared finally to give on the subject. I did so ; and the result which I arrived at was, that tho strongest Ministry which couhl be formed would be one in which my hon. friend (Mr. Domett) should take a principal part in conjunction with the hon. gentleman who had been at the head of the late Ministry. It did not occur to me, sir, that any difference was likely to arise as to who should take the precedence in such a Ministry ; but had such a point occurred to me, I should have advised that that was a point to be decided by the Governor ; I should have supposed that both theso hon. gentlemen would have readily abided by such a decision; and in doing so they would have merely been following a precedent when events of a similar nature occurred in our old country. Sir, I advised His Excellency to send for Mr. Domett, under the impression that a Ministry comprising both that gentleman and Mr. Fox would have been formed without difficulty : I thought that those hon. gentlemen could have formed a Government in which a very large portion of the colony would have had great confidence. I still regret that any circumstances should have occurred to prevent a more perfect coalition of opposite parties in this House—a coalition which I think would be of pci manent advantage both to this House and to the colony at large. Tho POSTMASTER-GENERAL brought up tho following interim report having reference to the Panama route. " Your Committee having taken into consideration that part of the subject committed to them which refers to communication with the United Kingdom and to the Ocean Postal Service, havo agreed to the following resolutions, which they recommend for adoption by this House. " 1. That, in the opinion of this Committee, the establishment of regular monthly steam communication between New Zealand and tho United Kingdom via Panama is calculated to confer very great benefit upon this colony. "2. That, considering the probable expense of such an undertaking, it is desirable that the service should be so constructed as to confer advantage upon, and obtain the support of the neighbouring colonies. " 3. That this Committee recommends the appropriation of a sum not exceeding £30,000 per annum from Ist January, 1861, for five years, as a contribution towards the colonial portion of a subsidy for such a service. The report having been read was ordered to be considered to-morrow in Committeo of Supply. ' Mr. DICK not knowing to whom he should address himself postponed the following question till Thursday,— " To ask the Hon. the Colonial Secretary, Whether it is the intention of Government to propose durirg this Session, any alteration of existing arrangements, whereby the Southern Provinces of this Colony shall bo brought into closer connection with the Scat of Government, and shall have more speedy and satisfactory attention paid to their requirements." Mr. DOMETT would state the course which ho proposed to take. On Thursday morning he would be prepared to make a general statement of the policy which the Government intended to pursue, and in the meantime as lion, members were anxious to get on with the work of the Session, tho House might meet tomorrow evening, which was devoted to the Resolutions of the lion, member for Ellesmcrc. If the House chose to support the Ministry and render it strong enough to go on with the business quickly, all the measures the Government would propose might be got over by the end of the month. If this course met the approval of the House, he would move that the House do now adjourn till to-morrow evening. The Notices of Motion ou this day's paper having been renewed, the House adjourned at about half-post twelve o'clock. WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 6th, 1862. The COLONIAL SECRETARY said that in consequence of the arrival of an important despatch from the Duke of Newcastle—which lie laid on the table—he considered it advisable, with the leave of the House, to postpone until Friday the general statement of the policy of the Government, which he had intended to have made to-morrow. He then gave notice of the following resolutions:—That, in the opinion of this House, tho relations between his Excellency the Governor and his responsible advisers should rest upon the following basis:—l. That ministers should, in conformity with the royal instructions, advise the Governor in nativo affairs (as well as in colonial affaL's) whenever his Excellency desires to obtain such advice, and should also tender advice on all occasions of importance when they deem it their duty in the interests of the colony to do so. 2. That ministers should undertake the administration of nativo affairs, reserving to his Excellency the decision in all matters of nativo policy. 3. That as the decision in all matters of native policy is with his Excellency, the advice of ministers shall not be held to bind the colony to any liability past or future in connection with nativo affairs, beyond the amount authorised by the House of Representatives. The NATIVE MINISTER, at the request of the House, read, and laid on tho table a despatch received the previous evening from the Duke of Newcastle. It was subsequently moved, and agreed to, that the despatch should be printed forthwith. Mr. R. GRAHAM moved, pursuant to notice, " That all correspondence between the Colonial Government and Mr. Morrison, the New Zealand Government agent, relative to sending game to this colony, be laid on tho table of the House." He briefly explained the reasons for which tho motion was made, rcfering to a certain order sent to England for game which had been countermanded. He understood that the late Prince Consort had sent game to the colony as a present, und notwithstanding that it was directed to the Colonial Secretary, it got into tho possession of private individuals and members of that House. Mr. WELD seconded the motion, and as one of the privato members alluded to, would venture a few words in explanation. He understood that Mr. Morrison, the New Zealand Government agent in London, had purchased certain deer in accordance with an order from this colony, this order was afterwards countermanded, but Mr. Morrison could not very well send back the deer. Sir Charles Clifford and himself (Mr. Weld) were then asked if they would take the deer. A portion of them wore taken, and paid for, by Sir Charles Clifford, and the rest were taken by some other gentlemen. Mr. FOX rose to throw some light on the matter, and said their never had been any money voted by that Houso for the importation of game. Mr. Morrison had been commissioned to procure some game for the colony, but the only source from which the money for it could be obtained was from a fund known as the Domain Fund, which was supposed to be set, apart for tho improvement of the Domain at Auckland. But in this there arose a difficulty which he would explain. When the late government took office they found that. Mr. Richmond, the then lato Colonial Treasurer, had initiated a very peculiar system of finance. This system was, in effect, that whenever he was short of money for any one purpose, he would take it from somo other fund where there happened to bo something to

his credit. When he (Mr. Fox) took office, he inquired what sum there was to the credit of the Domain Fund, and ho was informed that there was about £3,000. This fact was hardly ascertained, when ho discovered that, although this sum was to the credit, yethe could not have a sixpence of it—it having been lent to the Provincial Government to build a Resident Magistrate's Court. In consequence of his having no money to defray the expense, he was obliged to inform Mr. Morrison of tho impracticability of continuing the transaction. The hon. member criticised the conduct of tho hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Stafford) with regard to importation of game generally, and with reference to the attempt to import the humble bee in particular, essaying his opinion as to the only practicable manner in which the said bee could'be brought out in safety. [His remarks on this topic created much amusement in the House, and he concluded his very humorous speech amidst loud cheers and continued laughter.] Motion put and agreed to. Mr. WELD moved pursuant to notice—" For tho copy of any report of the Resident Magistrate at Mongonui of recent occurrences connected with the European and Maori crews of the whaling brig «Prince Edward,' or if no such report has been yet received, that application be made to the Resident Magistrate to furnish a report on the subject." Agreed to. The POSTMASTER-GENERAL moved pursuant to notice—" That the petition of Tamihana Tcßauparaha, Matene Te Whiwhi, and Hohepa Tamaihcrigia, bo referred to the Committee of Private Grievances." Some discussion took place in which the Native Minister, and Messrs. Harrison and Carlcton took part, after which the motion was put and agreed to. Mr. THOMPSON moved pursuant to notice—- " That the petition of Thomas Hughes be referred to the Committee ol Private Grievances." Agreed to. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL in proposing tiie motions standing in his name, briefly explained the necessity which existed for sonic action being taken upon the subjects. The following motions were respectively put and agreed to: — " That a select committe be appointed to consider and report as to the expediency of introducing some more simple and less costly procedure for the trial of civil cases of minor importance. The committee to consist of Mr. James Williamson, Mr. Brandon, Mr. Thomson, and Mr. Russell, with liberty to confer with any committee of the Legislative Council on the like subject. To report on the 13th instant. " That a select committee be appointed to consider the expediency of amending the law relating to debtors and creditors. The committer to consist of Mr. James Williamson, Mr. Brandon, Mr. Thomson, and Mr. Russell, with liberty to confer witli any committee of the Legislative Council on the like subject. To report on the 13th instant." Mr. STAFFORD moved, pursuant to notice—"For a return of tho number of persons in the Commission of the Peace for New Zealand on the 2nd July, 1861 ; and of the names of all persons since added to the commission, to the present date, with their respective residences, and the dates of their appointment. Also, for copies of all correspondence with the Government between the 2nd July, 1861, and the 30th July, 1862, relative to the appointment o( justices of the peace." Agreed to. Mr. STAFFORD moved, pursuant to notice—"For copies of all communications from, or instructions issued to commissioners, resident magistrates, or other oilicers of Government, relative to the natives, or to native questions, since the Ist January, 1862 —in addition to papers already presented to the House." Agreed to. Mr. PITZGERALD moved pursuant to notice but with leave of the House —the motion having lapsed, in consequence of the mover not being present when the motion come on—" For leave to bring in a Bill intituled, an Act to provide for the nomination of Superintendents of Provinces by his Excellency the Governor, and for vesting the powers of Superintendents in certain cases in Lieutenant or Deputy-Governors." Bill read a first time, ordered to be printed, and to be read a second time, on Friday next. Mr. STAFFORD moved, \ ursuant to notice, " For a return showing the number of troops in New Zealand during the year ended 30th June, 1862, in respect of which the contribution of the colony towards military expenses is calculated." The NATIVE MINISTER said there might be a difficulty in immediately producing the return asked for, but if practicable, the return would be forthcoming. After some explanation from Mr. STAFFORD, the motion was agreed to. Mr. JOLLIE moved the adoption of the following interim report of the private grievance committee : The Select Committee on Private Grievances beg to submit to the House the following report on the two petitions of Major Herbert, Kecfe, and others:— " Petition ok Charles St. John Herbert,—ln this petition Major Herbert states that he served in the f)Sth regiment, in the North and South of New Zealand, during the war of 1845-46, when he was severely wounded j that lie subsequently retired from the army, and settled in New Zealand; that he has resided in the colony for two yeaas and a-half since his retirement, during nearly the whole of which time he was actively employed in command of the Taranaki Militia; that he was not aware at the time of his retirement of the particular provisions of the Land Regulations of the Province of Auckland, but was under the impression that an officer retiring from the army, and settling in the colony, would bo entitled to land any time within five years after such retirement, instead of within one year from that dato, as is required by the Auckland Waste Lands Act of 1858, at present in force ; and the petitioner prays for relief accordingly. —The committee having considered this petition, and taken such evidence as could be brought forward upon the case, is of opinion that the claim for special consideration may fairly be considered, and that the provisions of tho Auckland Waste Lands Act requiring the application of a military officer to be made within twelve months from retirement, for a money certificate, enabling him to acquire land free of cost, should be waived in this particular case. " Petition or Keefe and Others.—The petitioners are discharged soldiers who obtained their discharge in 1858, for the purpose of settling in the Province of Auckland, and selected land there under what are called tho ' special occupation clauses' of the Auckland Waste Lands Regulations of that year. Those clauses impose the condition that improvements to tho amount of ten shillings an acre shall be made on the land before a crown grant of it can be acquired ; and, as that condition has not been complied with by tho petitioners, they are unable to obtain a title, although, as they state,' if they had been discharged at the present time they would, under the land regulations now in force within the province, have been entitled to select land without any such condition being attached.' The claim of the petitioners is in point of principle the same as that of Colonel Balneavis, which tho Private Grievance Committee of last session reported on, and the Assembly recognised by special enactment. The committeo beg to recommend the passing of an Act authorising the issue of grants to the petitioners for the land which they have respectively selected. It may lie as well for the committee to mention here that besides the eight persons who have actually signed the petition, there would appear, according to a memorandum by the Waste Lands Commissioner at Auckland, which has been laid before them, to be nine others (or their representatives) similarly situated in every respect, and whoso cases therefore will equally require to be disposed of in any measure which the House may think proper to entertain on the subject. In connection with the petitions just reported on, the committee have agreed to the following resolution, which they submit for the consideration of the House:—' That in the opinion of this committee no petitions for compensation in land, nor any claims for special consideration arising out of the land regulations of any Province, should bo entertained by the House of Representatives until an opportunity shall have been afforded to the Council of the Province concerned, to express its opinion thereupon.' " Mr. WATT seconded the adoption of the report, making some remarks with reference to the latter portion. A prolonged discussion ensued, in which Messrs. John Williamson, Harrison, FitzGerald, Ward, Carleton, O'Neill, Fitzherbert, Wilson, R. Graham, the Native Minister and the Attorney-General took part. The discussion arose principally upon tho proper manner of procedure in euses of the description referred to in the report. Major RICHARDSON moved an amendment to the effect that the petitions should be referred back to the Provincial Legislature of Auckland, for an cxprcsssion of their sentiments on the question. Some further discussion took place on the amendment, in which Messrs. Jollic, Carter, Rcnall, and Brandon took part With tho leave of the mover, the amendment was subsequently withdrawn and the adoption of the report carried ncm con. THURSDAY, AUGUST 7, 1862. The SPEAKER took tho chair at 5 o'clock. The Hon. Mr. DOMETT and Mr. DILLON BELL, laid on the table despatches from his Grace the Duko of Newcastle, which were read and ordered to he printed forthwith. The lion. Mr. DILLON BELL adverted to tho circumstance that last night a despatch which was ordered to be printed, had found its way ini > the columns of the newspapers virtually before it v as in, the bands of" Uw Govorpraont, but aj dwirman of the

! library and printing committee, he would take steps to avoid the recurrence of such a proceeding for the future. Mr. DICK asked the Colonial Secretary whether it is the intention of Government to propose during the session any alteration of existing arrangements whereby the Southern Provinces of this colony shall bo brought into closer connexion with the seat of Government, and shall have more speedy and satisfactory attention paid to their requirements. The COLONIAL SECRETARY replied that, owing to the Government having so very recently come into office, they had not yet had time to give the matter sufficient consideration. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL moved that leave be given to introduce a bill, entitled an act to establish marine boards for the general control and management of ports, pilots, lighthouses, and other matters relating to navigation ; and to regulate port charges and other rates. —Agreed to. Bill read a first time, and placed on the order of tho day for Tuesday next. The Hon. Mr. DILLON BELL resumed the adjourned debate on Mr. Fitzgerald's resolutions, and was followed by Mr. CARLETON, who said he could not concur in the terms of the resolutions, in fact there existed no spocial necessity for such a motion, inasmuch as the Maorics were already represented in the house, some of the members cf which advocated Maori quite as much, if not more, than European interest. He compared tho population in (Jreat Britain with that of New Zealand, and contended that the Maoris as a whole were actually more fully represented in this House than the inhabitants of "the British Islands were in the House of Commons. The Maoris, as it was, could exercise the franchise, if they chose to exert themselves. It was the old story, " put your shoulder to tho wheel, and don't call on Jupiter to help you." Let the Maoris do so. He should oppose the resolution. Mr. DICK said that nothing but native questions had occupied the time and attention of the House since their first meeting. He wanted colonial questions to have a fair share of attention. If they did not bo careful they might soon have a " Separation flag" as well as a "King flag." Mr. FITZHERBERT supported tho resolutions. Mr. FITZGERALD replied to the arguments advanced by previous speakers, and contended that debating on abstract principles was mere humbug. He thought it was useless to detain the House much longer, as neither in this House nor in the Imperial Parliament did mere oratory have much effect in influencing votes. He agreed with the lion, member for Cheviot, that the Maori votes should not be allowed to swamp those of the Europeans, but with respect to the allegations that the natives should first acquire our language before they could take seats in the House ho was of opinion that if they made such a restriction that result would never be attained. If they had admission to this Assembly accorded at once, they would very soon acquire the qualification of language to enable them to take part in the debates. The House having agreed to tho first and second resolutions, with some slight amendments, divided on the third—viz., " That a recognition of the foregoing principle will necessitate tho personal aid of one or more of the native chiefs in tho administration of the Government of the colony ; the presence of members of the Maori nobility in the Legislative Council, and a fair representation in this House of a race which constitutes one-third of the population or the colony,"—when the following result was obtained, Ayes, 17. Moorhousc, Watt, Wood, Atkinson, John Williamson, Renal!, Carter, G. Graham, W. W. Taylor, Bell, C. Taylor, Gillies, Fex, Mantell, Brandon, Fitzherbert, and FitzGcrald (teller). Noes. 20. hick, Weld, Carletou, A. J. Richmond, O'Neill, Wilson, J. C. Richmond, Domett, Colenso, Jas. Williamson, Wells, Mason, Curtis, Cookson, Butler, Munro, Harrison, O'Rorke, Nixon, and Richardson (teller). On the result of the division being ascertained Mr. FitzGcrald, withdrew the remaidcr of his resolutions. The bill passed its second reading, and was ordered to be committed. SUMMARY I'KOCEBDKE ON BILL'S BILL. This also was read a second time and ordered to be committed. CUOWX (HUNTS BILL. This measure was reported and passed its third reading. The House then went into committee on the following measures, viz., Steam Navigation Bill, Trustee's Relief Bill, and Summary Procedure on Bill's Bill. On the motion of Mr. O'NEILL the House adjourned at 20 minutes to eleven. FRIDAY, AUGUST 8, 18G2. The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock. Major RICHARDSON asked the Colonial Secretary whether (hero is any memorandum of the ministers on the letter oi his Excellency the Governor to his Grace the Duke of Newcastle, of the 30th November last, on the subject of a responsible ministry in connexion with the native race. The Hon the COLONIAL SECRETARY, in reply, said he was not aware of any memorandum whatever existing on the subject. Mr. A. J. RICHMOND asked the Hon. Colonial Secretary whether any steps have been taken to procuro from England or Australia the standard gold weights, in order to bring into operation " The Weights and Measures Ordinance Amendment Act, 1861." The Hon. the COLONIAL SECRETARY replied that the late ministry had sent home for them, and that they had been shipped but had not yet arrived the Hon. Mr. DILLON BELL moved, That the report of the Land Claims Commissioner be referred to a select committee, with instructions to report whether, and if so, to what extent, further legislation should take place on the subject of land claims, and whether effect should be given to the recommendation of the commissioner; committee to consist of Messrs. Weld, Fox, Wells, Carletou, Ormond, C. Wilson, C.8., Reader Wood, Major Nixon, and Major Richardson. Report to be brought up on the 18th inst. Agreed to. The Hon. Mr. DILLON BELL next moved—That the petition of J. H. Laseombe and Edmund Halswcll be referred to the committee on Private Grievances. Agreed to. The Hon. the COLONIAL SECRETARY said, in relation to the following resolutions standing in his name, viz.;— That in the opinion of this house, the relations between his Excellency the Governor and his responsible advisers should rest upon the following basis:— 1. That ministers should, in conformity with the royal instructions, advise the Governor in native affairs (as well as in colonial affairs) whenever his Excellency desires to obtain such advice, and should also tender that advice on all occasions of importance, when they deem it their duty in tho interests of the colony to do so. 2. That Ministers should at his Excellency's request, undertake the administration of native affairs, reserving to his Excellency tho decision in all matters »f native policy. 3. That, as the decision in all matters of native policy is with his Excellency, the advice of ministers shall not be held to bind the colony to any liability past or future in connection with native affairs, beyond the amount authorised or to be ' authorised by the House of Representatives. That it must be borno in mind that the despatch recently received from the Duke of Newcastle, had very materially altered their position. The gist of it was that the home government were disposed to give up the whole management of native afl'airs, and that the colony was to provide mainly for its own defence. The defence of tho country by the militia would be an expensive course; it would draw the people from industrial pursuits, and would cause a large numper to abandon the island. The population being scattered, would to a considerable extent, be rendered defenceless. The homo government would seem to have abandoned all their cherished philanthropy, and all tho Christian charity of Exeter Hall would appear to be entirely ignored. It appears strange that England, the queen of nations, should set the example of abandoning her colonics, when they are in difficulties. Every man would consider it a duty to defend his country; but ho was afraid the colony could not stand the proposed taxation. If they retained the power of course they might expect the pecuniary responsibility to tall upon them, and ho thought the colony was scarcely in a position to bear it. In a moral point of view England was bound to support her colonies; but as they, the ministry, were not prepared to accept the whole responsibility, he therefore proposed those resolutions. They did not wish to introduce a new scheme —but they had the general wish to support Sir George Grey. If the natives could not be taught to respect the British arms—there was no reason why they should not try a moderate policy. He did not record his vote in favour of tho resolutions of the lion, member for Ellcsmero (Mr. FitzGcrald) because they wore not general enough. If tho natives mixed with Europeans they would advance ia civilisation, and he thought the House might introduce some higher kind of institutions than had yet been proposed. He would suggest that the loan of one million should be raised, and he thought that, the establishment of outlying districts might, be advisable, but of course not for a considerable time. With respect to Taranaki, ho felt*obliged to say that, the Governor felt it as a blot and disgrace—and as a most dangerous example to the natives of those other colonies where tho British were governing a colonial race. Mr. FITZGERALD was of opinion that us the Government would, rctpvo tijije {br fj||e caipijderatjuu, of

the important despatches they had received from the Duke of Newcastle, he would move the adjournment ol the debate till Tuesday week. . Mr FOX seconded the motion for adjournment. The* Hon. Mr. DILLON BELL thought if they adjourned, the whole action of Government would be ""Br* STAFFORD and Mr. FOX supported the adjournment, which was accordingly agreed to, and the debate on theso resolutions was therefore postponed till Tuesday week. . . . Mr. COLENSO moved—" That in the opinion of this House it is highly desirable that the government serial called the Maori Messenger, printed, for, and circulated among the Maories, should be placed under proper supervision and made as effective as possible; vide article iii, and iv. of May, and article iii, p. 6, of July, 1862." . ~.•."*, A long discussion ensued thereon, in Which Mr. COLENSO urged that, owing to the misinterpretation of phrases, and even typographical errors, a large amount of mischief was created. « tT , rm After several remarks from Mr. iOX, Mr. CARLETON, and Hon. DILLON BELL, the motion was agreed to. Mr. CARLETON moved "for copies of all papers aud ccrrespondencc concerning ihe abduction by certain natives, of the wife and child of James Holden, from his house at the Keri Keri, in the Bay of Islands District."—Agreed to. The Trustees' Relief bill was read a third time, and, only being a reprint of an English Act, was passed. STEAM NAVIGATION IJILL. The Steam Navigation bill was also reported, and passed. The House then went into committee of supply on the report of the select committee on Communication. A lengthened discussion ensued relative to the desirability of the early adoption of the Panama route; its decided beneficial results were alluded to by Mr. C.-osbio Ward, who said that N. S. Wales had in 1857. passed an Act guaranteeing £50,000 per annum for ten years, and thus paving the way for its adoption. After some further remarks from other members, on the suggestion of Mr. Ward, the further discussion of the matter was postponed until after the Government had brought forward their financial statement. Progress was reported, and the debate adjourned till that day week. superintendent's nomination hilt,. On the motion of Mr. FITZGERALD, tho Superintendent's Nomination bill was ordered to be placed on the order of the day for Tuesday next. The House at 4,30 then adjourned. TUESDAY, AUGUST 12th. 1. Mr. Dick to ask the Hon. the Colonial Secretary, Whether it is the intention of Government to propose during this Session, a removal of the seat of Government to a more central position in the Colony. 2. Mr. O'Neill to ask the Hon. the Colonial Secretary, Whether the Government intend during the present Session *o introduce any measure for confei ring Municipal Institutions on such towns as may be desirous of obtaining the same. 3. Mr. O'Neill to ask Ministers, Whether the Hand-Book of Law, for the publishing of which moneywas voted last Session, is yet printed. 4. Mr. Fox to ask the Hon. the Colonial Secretary, Whether it is the intention of the Goverment to make any and what provision for the better administration of the General Government in the Middle Island. NOTICES OF MOTION. 1. The Hon. Mr. Gillies to move. For leave to bring in a Bill to amend the " Miners' Franchise Act. I860." 2. The Hon. Mr. Gillies to move, For leave to bring in a Bill to afford additional Representation to the Province of Otago. 3. The Hon. Mr. Gillies to move, For leave to bring in a Bill to continue the *' Atcs Act, 1860," for one year. 4. The Hon. Mr. Gillies to move, For leave to bring in a Bill to amend the " Bills of Sale Registration Act, 1856," and the " Wool and Oil Securities Act, 1858." 5. The Hon. Mr. Gillies to move, For leave to bring in a Bill to amend the " Lost Land Orders Act, 1861." 6. The Hon. Mr. Gillies to move, For leave to bring in a Bill to amend the " Customs Duties Act, 1858." 7. The Hon. Mr. Russell to move, For leave to bring in a Hill to amend the " Joint Stock Companies Act, I860." 8. The Hon. Mr. Dillon Bell to move, For leave to bring in a Bill to authorise the issue of Crown Grants to Natives in certain cases. 9. Mr. Fox to move, That the Petition of Francis Williamson, presented by the mover, be refetrel to the Private Grievance Committee. 10. Mr. Fitzuekald to move, That the Crown Lands Bill be referred to a Select Committee consisting of the Hon. Mr. Russell, Mr. Colenso, Mr. J. C. Richmond, the Hon. Mr. Domett, Mr. Brandon, Mr. Eyes, Mr. Crosbie Ward, the Hon. M-. Gillies, and the lion. Mr. Dillon Bell,

We extract the following Parliamentary items from the Wellington papers : What is the result of the late division on the question at issue? The resignation of the Fox Ministry and the installation of the Domett Ministry is a very patent one, and for party purposes the only result contemplated; but so far at the question of Ministerial responsibility in native affairs is concerned, the question has not "been altered, but remains precisely where it was. The same question which Mr. Weld put to Mr. Fox, must be put to Mr Domett—" What are the views of Ministerial responsibility towards His Excellency, which you intend carrying out for the future?" The position of Mr. Domett's Ministry at this moment is precisely the same as if Mr. Fox's resolution had been carried, and must continue so until the House directs otherwise; so that the only result has been to upset the Government, which the House did not want to do tor the present, whatever it might have desired to do afterwards; while the question of Ministerial responsibility in native affairs, which a large portion of the House really did want to upest, remains in full force. On the 6th September last, the House declared that they voted native estimates " upon the express declaration by the Government that a complete revision of the Land Purchase department was necessary." While they thus voted the sums asked for without" demur, the House further declared that " they considered it to be no less a duty which they owned to the past expectations of the country, to take tho occasion thereby afforded of recewing the record of their deliberate opinion on the subject, in order that the same might be brought under the considcrarion of Sir George Grey upon his assuming the government of New Zealand." Then follows the definition of what that deliberate opinion is, viz., " a thorough and radical change in the organization of the land purchase department"—that department at that time combining with its own proper functions, that of non-responsible advisers to tho Governor in political matters. To effect this thorough and radical change, the House went on to declare, " that an indispensable step to reform must be the total separation so often insisted upon by the House of Representatives, between land purchasing and political functions." So far for tho destructive process of the alteration desired. Having shorn the Land Purchase Department of its political functions, what was to be done with them? The House decided thus, " that any re- " construction of the Land Purchase Department on a " satisfactory basis, necessarily involves also an entiro " re-organization of the political branch of that ser- " vico, and that no such re-organization will bo effec- " tnal or satisfactory to the country which does not, " while fully recognizing and securing to the Governor " both the initiative and the derision where Imperial " interests are involved, place the conduct of the ordi- " nary basinets af native administration under respon- " sibility to the Assembly." And finally the House declared their conviction " that the House cannot " justly be expected in any future session to pass cs- " timatcs for perpetuating the (then) existing system." Sir George Grey, on his arrival here, complied with the thus expressed wish of tho House. Having placed " the conduct of the ordinary business of Native ad- " ministration under responsibility to tho Assembly," Sir George Grey cannot adopt any other courso until the House desire it; nor can Mr. Bell, as Treasurer, frame his estimates on any plan which perpetuates irresponsible advice to His Excellency, the House having last session, on his own resolutions as above, declared that it cannot justly bo expected to pass them. Had tho House allowed "Mr. Fox's resolution to bo put; had tho Houso negatived Mr. Fox's motion to continue tho system pursued since last session; had the House said " No" to Mr. Fox's proposition to place " tho ordinary conduct of Native Affairs under the " administration of Responsible Ministers," the resolutions of last year would have been cancelled, and Sir George Grey and Ministers would have been free to act differently; but until this has been done—until the House rescind Mr. Bell's resolutions of last year,— neither Sir George Grey nor Ministers can do otherwise than share Native Kcsponsibility between them, and Mr. Treasurer Bell must prepare his Estimates accordingly. It is quite clear then that as the Houso has refused to stullify itself by negativing Mr. Fox's resolution, the resolutions of last session are not cancelled; and therefore the new Ministry is at this moment just as responsible for the conduct of ordinary Nativo Wwa \\» the Wx already WflSj W

ever would have been, had the resolution of yesterday week been carried. We confess we wait with no little curiosity for the denouement.—lndependent, August 5.. The new Colonial Secretary made hia exposition of Ministerial policy yesterday. We do not know for which it was the most remarkable—for what it contained, or for what it left out. It amounted to this. 1. The Government intend to advise his Excellency on native affairs. „. _ _ , . 2. They intend to carry out Sir George Grey s plan of native policy. .... .-i 3. Thev intend to let Taranaki take its course until the Governor sees fit to the contrary ; and 4. They intend to borrow £1,000,000 (we had bettcr put it in words to prevent mistake—a million pounds) mainly to encourage the immigration ot persons to be located in settlements on what is called the frontier; such settlements to consist (in the first place) of men only. . . The change of ministry, is therefore, not quiet what we have already described it-a change without alteration. It is a change for the worse. Verily the opponents of the Fox Ministry have abundant cause for rejoicing ! They at least must acknowledge that to every depth there is still a lower deep. If the House would not permit the Fox Ministry to advise the Governor on native affairs, in the terms of the resolutions recently debated and shelved, it is scarcely possiple to suppose it will agree to those proposed by the present ministry. "If the large mind of Mr W C. Richmond failed to define the terms of ministerial responsibility," said Mr. Bell the other evenin", " he was sure there was no man of sufficient ability now in the House to do so." Yet Mr. Bell has himself attempted it without hesitation; he has attempted to define what a few days ago he declared was undefinable. The discussion on the resolutions has been postponed until Tuesday week, and, as Mr. Gillies said yesterday that they had been drawn up with a view to test the confidence of the House in the Domett Ministry, we presume they will give rise to a lengthy debate. Meanwhile all but routine business is at a stand-still, and no one can be found to take the important office of Treasurer.— lndependent, August 9. The report of the select committee on the Panama route was considered yesterday: but the proposition to guarantee £30,000 for five years was postponed until after Mr. Bell had, as acting Treasurer, introduced the budget. We were glad to notice the confident tone of the late Treasurer, Mr. Wood, as to the ability of the finances of the colony to bear even twice this sum in a year or two, if necessary. If the "bankers, merchants, and shipowners" of the good city of Wellington could help this project forward now is the moment to do so.— lbid. Besides the despatch from the Duke of Newcastle published in our last, there were some four or five others received by the last mail, and laid on the table on Thursday. As they have not yet been printed we cannot state with any degree of certainty the nature of their contents, but we may say that as a whole they are of a similar character to the one laid before our readers on Thursday—if we want a man-of-war to be at the service of the Governor, we must buy one and man her; if wo want military roads made by the troops, we must pay the expenses; and much more in the same style. The first impression which these despatches produce is one of surprise at the apparent want of support which they afford to the Governor selected by the Duke of Newcastle as the one man of all others most likely to extricate the colony from the disaster, and England from the enormous expense of a Maori war. Sir George Grey has a right to expect that all his recommendations will receive an amount of favourable consideration, which, under other circumstances, he might not confidently rely upon their receiving. With the fullest measure of support from the Imperial Govern-' ment, the work of establishing peaceful relations with the natives is a task truly herculean ; without it the task must be almost impossible. We have been led to regard the Egyptian mandate to make the full tale of bricks while withholding the customary supply of straw, as an instance of the bitterest oppression ; but the task imposed upon Sir George Grey, and the withdrawal of imperial help which these despatches indicate, is an instance which fairly rivals it in its unreasonable and intolerable oppressiveness. We confess that these despatches would lead us to form a most gloomy view of what is in store for us, had we not full confidence that Sir George Grey will be able to induce the home government to act in a spirit very different to that which its despatches indicate. He has often done this before, and we have confidence that he will be able to do so again. We have confidence that he will be able to convince the home government that as the endeavour to keep the management of the natives under its control has failed—which the Duke of Newcastle acknowledges—there can be nothing but the greatest injustice in making the colonists suffer for its faults, in making them bear the pecuniary burden of the confessedly mischevious policy it has for two and twenty years pursued.— lbid.