IMPORTANT DEBATE ON THE WAR—REMARKABLE SPEECH OF LORD ABERDEEN.

New Zealander, Volume 10, Issue 888, 18 October 1854, Page 2 (Supplement)

IMPORTANT DEBATE ON THE WAR—REMARKABLE SPEECH OF LORD ABERDEEN.

Lord LVNDII OUST drew attention to (lie terms of the memorandum relating- to the Eastern question, trans- | in it ted by the Cabinets of Vienna and Berlin to their envoys ai the Diet of Frankfort. It was somewhat obscure in language, hut ho apprehended it to mean that after the war the territorial position of Turkey on one I sid and Russia on the other, should remain ns before, | The protocol of the sth September, which referred to j ibis memorandum, indeed, placed this beyond doubt, ! for it was to the same effect. So that, according to the I agreement between the four Powers, no alteration in j the territorial limits of Turkey on the one side, and i Russia on the other, was to take place, whatever might | ba ihe result of the war. 'This protocol was agreed 10 j before ihe dtclarati u of war: but after war Lad been declared against Russia by England and France, we conform to the principles upon which the pr tocol of I the sth of September bad been framed. It was, therefore, ex remedy dillicult, under tbe.se circumstances, to j say by what principles England, France, Austria, and ) Prussia wore guided ; but it appeared to him clear to | demonstration that at this very moment they were acting upon tins principle, that if Russia guaranteed ihe integrity of the Ottoman empire, and the independence of the Sultan, the war with Russia must be terminated with tho status quo ante helium. Describing the importance ol the Danube to Austria and Central Europe, and the circumstances under which, by the treaty of Adrianople, which he characterised nc unfortunate and uisastrods, tne careot tbe mouths of that ri,„, i.„,| given to Russia, he contended that the mode in which this engagement had been neglected hv Russia in order to encourage the port of Odessa, rendered it impossible for the Powers to consent to place that power in her former territorial position (hear). It was absolutely necessary, from the state of ibis great river, that a change should be made in this respect (hear, hear). It this was the case on the western coast of the Black Sea, the duty was stronger on the eastern coast. He asked was it possible for this country to consent to restore to Russia the territory she had lost, or might lose, in Circassia (cheers) 1 And adverting to general principles, ho inquired whether there was any security, if Russii was re-placed in her territorial position, that her aggressions would not be renewed the first opportunity 1 Quoting Prince Eleven and Pozzo di Borgo to show that Russia in her aggressions always calculated upon divisions among the great Powets of Europe, be said Tat if the Court of Vienna shared in the views und intentions of Prussia, the result would be satisfactory to the Court of Sf. Petersburg. But it migh' be said that if effectual guarantees were given for ihe integrity of Turkey, we might safely rest upon the status quo. The guarantee of ihe Four Powers, be admitted might be of great value so long as they were an.ted, and no collision occurred betwicu them upon other points ; but could that he dep n led upon (hear, hear) I Then it uhs said that wc should have the positive engagement of Russia not to infiinge upon the independence of territory of Turkey; but any guarantee of Russia after what bad occurred, was perfectly valueless (hear, hear). It was not worth the paper upon which it was written. In proof of this he referred to the false assurances given to Sir 11. Seymour, respecting the objects for which troops were being collected, before the invasion of the Principalities. Confidence, my lords, too olten generates credulity—a feeling not creditable 10 statesmen or ministers (cheers). 1 lie history of Russia, from tbe first establishment of tbe empire down to the present, is a history ol fraud, duplicity, ami tiolence, aud the past conduct corresponds in some sort with what wo sec now going on in that empire (hear, hear). Russia was desirous of establishing tho Gieek Church in Turkey, and Catherine declared Lersell the protectress of the Greek Church in Poland. By means ol that church and that protectorate she fomented re. ligions dissensions in the kingdom, she stirred up political sliife, and she mart bed her armies into the country under ilm pretence of allaying these tumults ; she stripped the kingdom of its fairest province, and we all know the re -ult. In more recent times the wholecourse of |{us ian policy has been ihu same. She agreed by treaty with Turkey to respect the independence ot the Crimea. When there, her agents stirred up insurrection, and created disturbances, and when her purposes were matured she sent one of her most barbarous generals into the country, murdered the inhabitants, and annexed the Crimea to her own territory. At the same time a lino of ships was placed across to prevent the Turks affording any assistance; and all this time, while this was going on, not only was she at peace with Turkey, but w .s actually negotiating a commercial treaty with that power. Mark well the infamy of the transaction (cheers). It seems an hereditary vice among these barbarous Asiatics—it is characteristic of Asiatic barbarians. St. Petersburg is to all intents a Tobolsk, and, if not 'altogether peopled by Asiatics it is "•overnod by Asiatics. Napoleon, in going too Egypt, took posseision of a rock of two in the Mediterranean, and, alluding to this, Pitt said that nothing was too groat for his towering ambition, nothing to small for tbe grasp of his avarice. So may we say of Russia. She has doubled her European territories within half a century ; she goes to Khiva—for what purpose! Aggression and lust of territory. She sends two armies to gain a place which is not ol tho slightest value, except as a position to enable her to extend her

power ami influence, and to anaop us in our territories in theKas'. She Las now attained iieroltject; but tlie expeditions for securing Khiva and tbe Sea of Aral were prepared and sent out in a time when she was at peace with us (hear, hear). I might go on for ever with these transactions. There is, however, one of more modern times to which I must refer. Russia always said that she was most anxious to preserve the independence of Turkey, and at the very time when she was making the loudest professions on the subject sbe was planning tbe destruction of the empire, and partitioning it, according to her own fancies, at will among other countries. This is the Emperor with whom we are now dealing, upon whose representations, and upon the face of whose statements, and statements of his representatives, we are now to rely (cheers). A new phrase has been intro luced into diplomacy by the Russians, it is “ material guarantee” (cheers and lauglrar;. If Russia will give us what she calls a “ material gurantee”—that is, a pledge or mortgage upon something ho valuable that she would not like to risk the loss of it if she violated her faith—then that might be of some use. I As for her moral guaran'ee, her faith, her honour, or her word, they are one and all valueless (hear, hear). “ What course,’ I may be asked, *' would you propose to pursue I - ’ To such a question I would reply, it is not for me to stale my viewi on such a subject. This i however, I will venture to state—that in no case, j except that of extreme necessity, ought we to make ( peace without previously destroying the Russian fled j in the Black Sea and laying prostrate tbe fortifications ! whith which it is defended (cheers). For to leave that j fleet so protected, and in that position, would be to I leave in the hands of Russia the power of most eft'ecI tually tyrannising over and governing Turkey, which j latter could not under such circumstances have—to use ! the phrase I have already referred to, of Count Nesselrode—a will of her own, and wouid be compelled to submit in all things to the will of Russia (hear, hear). I do not know what course Austria intends to pursue, but I think I may venture to state that she has far more at slake in the matter than either England or France For if Russia gets possession and holds possession of the principalities,|and exercises, as she would do, an enormous influence upon the southern territories, there will bean end to tbe independence of tbe empire (bear, bear.) If tin's monstrous —really I do not know what to call it—leviaTan, stretching out its many thousands of miles from west to east, and pressing upon her northern and eastern frontiers, shall coil around the southern territories of Austria, she must inevitably lose her in-, d pendence, or be crushed in the fetal folds (haare hear). Wh t course Russia will take—whether sh may think lit to retain possession of the provinces o Turkey in Europe, it is not for me to predict. Of this 1 am certain, however, that if she does, she will not stand still—she will not long be stationary there. That is certain. Ambition, like other passions, grows and requires constant feeding (Jiear, hear.) Count Nessel-f rode said, in emphatic terms, ‘‘Europe contemplates our colossus with awe. She knows our armies only await the signal to fall like a deluge upon the states and kingdoms of Europe.” I must say of thatsemibarbatous nation—an enemy to all progress and to all improvemenr, except that improvement which alone tends to consolidate and strengthen its power which punishes the education of her people, and renders it unlawful—if that power were once to establish itse.iv mtty which could befal the world. (Loud cheers.;

The Earl of CLARENDON’ said the memorandum | alluded to had exclusive reference to German interests, ' and that it did not weaken any engagement which might since nave been made by Austria and Prussia with England and France. On the contrary, it rather strengthened them. Speaking of Austria, he said the opinion he bad expressed in that house three months ago, that | she could not remain neutral in the great contest now impending, had been confirmed. (Hear, hear.) It was true that there were some German powers which looked with awe at the imaginary omnipotence of Russia, but Austria had not shared in that ignominious feeling. In the beginning of this month, Austria had sent a summons to Russia to evacuate the Principalities ; and with the concurrence of England and France, she had concluded a convention with the Pone, under which her troops would occupy the Principalities so long as might be necessary. (Hear, hear.) At the same time she had engaged to send a force, if necessary, to suppiess in.-ur-reuion in Montenegro, and to assist in putting down that in Greece, By the close of this month, or the beginning of the net', she would have a fully equipped army of dU.1.000 men : and, under such ciicurastances, he felt confidence in her assurances that her objects and views, as well as Her interests, were the same as those of Englard'andFrance. (Hear, bear.) I think—continued the noble lord—that we may have some confidence in the ass ranees Austria has given ua. that her objects and views are the same as ours, aud that in the prosecution of those objects and views we shall always find her with us. Nor can I believe that, after the knowledge which Austria has acquired of Russian diplomacy —after the experience she has had of the utter disregarl of Austrian interests —after the vast expense she has now incurred, and the great risks to which she may be exposed —I cannot believe, as the noble lord would almost seem to infer, that Austria would be so wanting to her interests and dignity as to conclude a peace such as that to which he has referred. (Hear, hear.) Such a peace would be nothing but a short and hollow truce, to which England and France could be no parties (cheers) a peace which would atlord no guarantees for ■ the future, which would be indeed a triumph to Russia, i and would leave Austria beiealter more than ever ex» posed to the pernicious influence and agrressive policy of Russia. (Cheers.) 1 here was another point, in re- ! ferenco to the terms in which the peace should be made. | 1 cannot say, nor do 1 think that any of your lordships would undertake to say, on what terms peace can be made, because those terms must depend on the chances and contingencies of the war; and, indeed, if I did ' know on what terms we should be prepared to make j peace, I am sure your lordships would agree with me ! that it would he imprudent at this moment to divulge them (hear, hear.) We may have our own opinions as ■ to what may be desirable in that respect, but none of us can tell what may be possible. Ibis we know, however, that the policy and the power of Russia are dangerous to the peace and well-being of Europe (hear, hear), and that they are dangerous to the cause of progress and j of civilisation (cheers). We must all of us know that the object and interests ol Europe must be to curta 1 that power and to check that policy ; and that if this opportunity be neglected ot doing that, it would be vain to hope that such a one would ever occur again. (Cheers.) My lords, all Europe is not to be disturbed —great intereSwrnre not to be dislocated great commercial aud social risks are not to be run, and the greatest powers of Europe are not to be united in arms for an insignificant result. (Renewed cheers ) We must all be agreed that repression will only postpone the danger, and that safely can alone be sought in curtailing a power which menaces the peace of Euaope, aud the cause of progress and civilization. (Ciieers.) The Earl of DERBY said the question was, not the

sincerity of Austria in what she professed, but what iT the meaning of her profession in the event of R U 5 S * complying with the demand for the evacuation of it"* Principal ities. He rejoiced, however, at the declare tions of the noble earl, because he was sure the peor] a of this country would never be satisfied unless the ambition of Russia was bridled and her j,' strained. It wa* our bounden duty not to desert th" Circassians. It was impossible to permit the lllact « to remain a Russian late, or the Danube a Rusuji, diteh,and be was sure that the noble earl’s lang-u a <, e followed up by the whole of the wo«M give universal satisfaction.

Ibe Earl of ABERDEEN said Lord LyndLurgi'j speech might have been in place three months ago hat he hardly thought it necessary now. It woulVliare been more appropriate before the declaration of warily after it. The object of the war being to protect an *!!» against an unjust aggression, it bad never occurred to provide beforehand for Turkish conquests upon ilastijjj territory. The intention was to protect the iadepen. deuce of 'J urkey, consequently there might be ao-iie ambiguity in documents which were prepared some time before. Austria was active now, acting for her own interests and for the interests of Europe; theiefore he attached no importance to the ambio-aitv of which complaint had now been made. As to the coaditions with which we would be satisfied, on the conclusion of war, and the objects which we should hare in view, it would be both premature and unwise to pretend now to decide. My noble and Earned friend to be sure, has given the Emperor of Russia due notice that he had better lose no time in fortifying Sebastopol, for my noble and learned friend has already announced his desire to lay Lis hand on that stronghold, and I dare say his Majesty the iamperor will follow my noble and learned friend’s advice (laughter). But (the conditions for the termination of hostilities are, I sa T 'hose which can only be described by the expression—“a just and,honourable peace.” (Hear, Lear.) Row that must depend in a great measure on the progress of the war. All 1 can »ay is, that at all times I shall advocate an honourable peace, though bent on obtaining the great objects we have in view—the security, integ° rity, and independence of the Porte, and, as far as reasonable, what is called the security of Europe, which however, I cannot say I feel to be very much in danger by the chance of Russian aggression. For let me remind my noble and learned friend that when that disastrous treaty of Adrianople, to which he refeis, was concluded, at a time when the Russian troops were within fifty miles of Constantinople—a treaty,! admit, to be must onerous and disastrous—still no aequi.-ition of Turkish territory was made by Russia. (Intimations of dissent ) Two or three small ports in Asia were taken possession of by Russia (hear, hear), but not aa inch of territory in Europe ; and the principalities were evacuated. (An exclamation of “ the Danube.”) The Danube ?—Xo doubt, 1 Lave already expressed my opinion in this house with regard to the treaty of Adrianople ; and no one has ever described the disastrous and onerous nature of its conditions more strongly taan myself. (Hear, hear.) Rut I say, considering the position at that time of the Russian array, which was almost at the gates of Constantinople, that treaty did not show any great desire of territorial aggrandisement, And what happened since the treaty was made, twenhad anyl?o r siffify ? world. The only interference that Russia Las baa with Turkey has been'to save the existence of the Turkish empire, by sending a Russian army to Constantinople, to protect it against Egyptian invasion. That is all that Las happened since the treaty of Adrianople. There has been no war, there has been no aggression, but only a single service rendered to Turkey by Russia, I think that if we can secure tranquillity for twenty-five years to come, we shall not do amiss ; and that ought to os the objects we should have in view. I quite agree wun those who, notwithstanding they had been led away by 1 the excitement of the moment at the commencement of hostilities, still think that we ought never to close our ear to the voice of peace ; and 1, for one, so long, or as soon as ever I see the prospect of a just and honorable peace in view, shall most certainly endeavour to attain it. Now, this may not suit the spirits of those who are more bent upon hostile measures ; but it must not be taken as implying that I am indifferent to ibe conduct of the war.' On the contrary, I venture to say that those who most desire peace may be most prepared to carry on war with the utmost vigour and determination. _ . Lord BEAUMONT expressed a wish that the relative to the occupation of Turkish territory by Aus* trian troops should be laid before the Parliament. Here the conversation terminated.