IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. MINISTERIAL EXPLANATIONS.—INTENDED DISSOLUTION.

New Zealander, Volume 8, Issue 659, 7 August 1852, Page 3

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. MINISTERIAL EXPLANATIONS.—INTENDED DISSOLUTION.

House of Commons, March 15th. Mr. Disraeli and several other members took their seats. In reply to a question of Mr. James Wilson with reference to his motion upon the Sugar Duties, Sir J. Packington said, that during the present session, her Majesty's government, with a majority against them, did not intend to press the subject. They thought it would be better to reserve it for another Parliament. For these reasons it was not*his intention to bring forward the notice which stood in his name, but at the same time the effect of the present rate of sugar duties had undergone no change. Under the circumstances, the government had reserved the right to deal with the subject if they should be in a position to do so. In answer to a question from Mr. Wilson, Sir J. Packington said the alteration in the sugar duties on the sth July would not at present be interfered with by the Government. In answer to a question from Mr. Adderley, Sir J. Packington said the state of the Cape colony would receive the immediate attention of the Government. Mr. Adderley wished to ask the Secretary for the Colonies whether any instructions will be sent by the mail going out to the Cape of Good Hope to-morrow, to General Cathcart, to suspend or alter the instructions given him by Lord Grej' to lay down a scheme of future policy for this country to undertake as to the defence ot the frontier of that colony. Sir John Packington said he had written to the Cape to the effect that the most effectual measures should be adopted for the pacification of the colony, leaving it to an aftertime to give special directions as to the general policy to be adopted. Mr. Headlem asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it was the intention of the Government to impose a tax on coal. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, there was no such intention on the part of the Government ; but if such a proportion was calculated to meet with favour on the part of the honorable gentlemen's constituents at Newcastle, the Government would be ready to give it their best consideration. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.)

Corn Laws. On the order of the day for going into committee of supply on the Navy Estimate, Mr. C. Villiers rose and said he wished to inquire of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with respect to the course the Government proposed to take on the suhject of the Corn Laws. He hoped his motives would not he mistaken, for he was not actuated bj*- factious or party motives. He did not impute to the Government that they sought office for the sake of distinction, but for the sake of re-establishing protection ; and their whole course in opposition clearly proved that that was their main object, and he, therefore called on the Chancellor of the Exchequer to state distinctly what course he proposed to take to accomplish re-imposition of Protection. (Cheers.) The government should not shrink from making an avowal of their policy. (Cheers.) The Earl of Derby had been in a late government, and had great experience of the policy of Sir Robert Peel, but he, notwithstanding that, was the only Cabinet minister who had left Sir Robert Peel and opposed the policy of Sir Robert Peel. (Cheers.) The noble lord had incurred great responsibility in doing so. He was a man of great talent, rank, wealth, and influence, and he had many blind followers. He ought therefore to speak out, and leave no mistake on the mind of the country. (Hear.) The honourable gentleman then referred to our increased home and foreign trade, decreased pau- j perism, and other signs of prosperity, contending that the population had never been better paid or employed than at present. (Hear, hear.) He concluded by asking the honorable gentleman to make a distinct avowal whether it was the intention of the Government, either now or in the event of a dissolution of Parliament, to propose any scheme that would affect directly or indirectly the p resent system of commercial policy, especially the trade in corn. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was received with cheers. He wished, without reserve, fairly and frankly to express the feelings of the Government, but, he thought, in the first place, the House should consider the position of the Government and the circumstances under which gentlemen sitting on these benches acceded to office. He then reminded the House of Lord Derby's declaration that the controversy between Free Trade and Protection must be finally settled by a new Parliament, and to his own statement that after the decision the present House of Commons had come to by so large a majority against Protection, he should not again attempt to influence them, but should confine his efforts to mitigate the consequences of Free-trade on the landed interest. (Hear, and applause.) The question being in that state, there is suddenly and unexpectedly a change of government. If the Government had been changed upon a motion asserting the expediency of immediately returning to the principle of a protective policy, I admit, said he, there would have been some ground for the honorable gentleman putting the question. The honorable and learned gentleman says that our not announcing at this moment a statement in detail as to the measures which we think necessary occasions distrust^ and uncertainty in the country. But surely it does not occasion greater uncertainty /«™ om ' P osition ill Parliament before. (Oh, oh," from the Opposition benches, and Ministerial cheers.) But the honorable and

learned gentleman asks me to tell him whether, in another Parliament, we shall be prepared to propose a fixed duty, according to his own figures, of sa. upon corn. ("No, no.") That r-> the question, as I understand it. (" No, no.") If it is not, I shall he glad to know what the real question is. Sir. Villiers — The question I put was, whether the Government intended to piopose any scheme of commercial or fiscal legislation before the dissolution of Parliament in such a way that the question of the principle of Protection or a duty on corn shall be submitted to the deliberate judgment of the electors. (Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer — That is a mere parliamentary peri phi asis of what I said, somewhat more simply. (A laugh.) Well, then, I say it is not the intention of the Government to do anything of the kind — (cheers and counter cheers) — I only express my own feelings and that of my colleagues when I say we believe that very great injustice was done to the agricultural and other interests in the changes that took place in 1 840, and afterwards in 1848 and 1849 (hear, hear); and that we are extremely dc- j sirous, for the benefit of all classes of the community, that the injustice should be ledresscd. We think that it would be our duty to consider the condition of the agricultural interest, and to propose tho^o measures which, in our opinion, are most calculated to redress the grievances under which it buffers. (Cheers.) But we are not pledged to any measure. (Laughter from the Opposition benches, and Ministerial cheers.) I think it would be ontholy out of character to say, that in a new parliament we should be bound to bring in a certain specific in order to redress those grievances, or to propose the measure indicated by the honorable and learned gentleman — a ss. fixed duty. (Hear, hear.) lam not at all clear, sharing the opinion as I do of the honorable and learned gentleman as to the little effect which it has in raising prices, that that is a measure which is by any means one I may think it our duly to recommend. (Hear, hear.) But I say frankly to the honorable and learned gentleman, that in considering the fiscal arrangements of this country — I do not — I will not — to any popularity or to avoid any blustering. gi\ eit as my opinion that a duty such as he describes, is one which any minister under any circumstances ought to propose. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) 1 know there is a great desire on the part of gentlemen opposite that there should be a proposition for a fixed duty. (Hear, and laughter.) I regret, for their sakes that I cannot give a promise to make any proposition of the kind. What I intend to do, with the assistance and consent of my colleagues, is to redress the grievances of the agricultuial interest; and we reserve to ourselves the right of considering what may be the best me.ms by which that great object can be attained. (Hear, hear.) 1 think that, in consequence of the prejudice with which the pioposition for a fixed duty on wheat has been invested, it would be very unwise for any Minister to make it before the verdict of the country lias been pronounced with regard to it. (Hear.) But the question of a redress of just grievances of any interest in this country will not be settled by a verdict of that nature; and it is for the Government to consider those measures which they conscientiously believe will best attain the object they frankly announce it is their intention to accomplish. (Hear, and cheers.) I hope I have answerad the inquiry of the lion, and learned gentleman. ('• No, no," and laughter from the opposition benches.) If gentlemen opposite suppose that so far as we are personally concerned, tve have any wi«li unnecessarily to prolong the present state of affairs, they indulge in a very great mistake. I shall, however, mention soaie measures that I think should be introduced without delay. There were, besides those of public exigency, as the Mutiny Bill and Supplies Avere — first, a bill to disfranchise St. Albans, and to apportion the i'oui' vacant sfr'ats "which would be thus occasioned, it being considered that the number of members should be complete before going to the country ; secondly, a bill for Chancery Reform, based on the report of the commissioners ; and thirdly, he should move on the earliest possible day a measure to provide for the internal defence of the country. The opposition has very fiankly inquired what arc the principles upon which the administration is formed. There is a subject scarcely second to that in importance in this country!! and that is the principle on which her Majesty's opposition is formed. (Great cheering.) Is it the principle of Papal supremacy or Protestant ascendency I (Chceis.) Is it the principle of national defences or of perpetual peace ? (Cheers and laughter.) Is it the principle of household suffrage or of electoral groups '{ (Laughter.) Is it I the opinion of the new Opposition along with the honorable member for the West Riding, that Free-trade is a panacea for all evils of States ? I have confidence in the good sense and good temper even of the existing Parliament. If I have miscalculated those qualities I shall still hold my trust in the sympathy and support of the country (hear, hear), convinced that it will support the present Government in their attempt to do their duty to their Sovereign and in their resolution to baffle the manceuvies of faction. (Loud cheers.) Lord John Russell, in responding to this appeal, felt bound, in the lirot place, to deny the statement that the present Government had taken office, not at their own wish, but because, if they had not, the Queen would have been left without a Government. Wiry, said the noble lord, it is a notorious fact that for years they have been endeavouring to supplant the late Government (hear, hear). That they have been almost unscrupulous as to the means, and that they omitted no opportunity by which they could place themselves in the situations they now hold. (Cries of " Oh, oh !" from the Ministerial side of the House, answered by ironical cheers from the Opposition.) After voting w ith Mr. Hume on the Income Tax, though disagreeing with him in his object — after attacking Lord Clarendon with poisoned arrows, then placing a vote of want of confidence on the paper, and voting against Ministers on Lord Palmer&ton's motion, it was rather too much to say that office had come upon them by surprise. If the Government was to be degraded by those occasional defeats which must follow from the coinse adopted to take the House by surprise — I felt it would be impossible for me to give that due attention to subjects of great concern to the public which it was my duty to give, (near, hear.) I felt, therefore/if I were not driven out of office, I should be worried out of it by gentlemen in opposition. (Hear, hear.) And then, indeed, after all this conduct, to come forward and say they only accepted office because the Q,ueen was without a Government, I own does appear to me to be a false pretence. If it was unconstitutional in me, as I thought it would have been, to have held office with an uncertain majority ; can it be constitutional in them to hold office declaring themselves in a minority 1 (Hear, hear.) We are to he allowed to discuss the Bill for the disfranchisement of St. Albans, and the measure with respect to Chancery Reform. But upon that question in which the country is interested, whether there is to be a fixed duty laid on corn — a tax of which by the researches of all scientific men 5-Gths will be' paid to the landlords, and only 1-Gth to the Exchequer, we pro told that next February we shall learn something about it, but at present our mouths must be closed, and we must not pie&ume to put such a question. (Cries of "hear, hear.") jln the same manner with regard to our colonial interests, our navigation and shipping interests-. I verily believe there never was such a delusion attempted to be practised upon a people as the people of England. (Hear, hear.) Ten years ago, when there was a dissolution in 1841, it was not understood ; but the whole people of the country understood it now. (Hear.) They know what it moans— they know it means the addition of something — what-

ever it may be Id., id., or|d., or whatever it may be, to the price of their loaf — and that that tax is to go in the main part to the landlords of this country. He then defended the late Government for not dissolving- on the ground that they would have heen using tne prerogative of the Crown to keep themselves in power. The lion, member for | Wolverhampton (Mr. C. Villiers) had truly said that under Free Tiade the country had flourished to azi extent that was before unknown. It is as 1 understand, the purposes of the present Government to reverse that policy. (Hear, hear.) That is stated obscurely and' mysteriously in the speeches of the members of the Cabinet. It is stated clearly and decidedly by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Mr. Christopher). I therefore do not cloak my meaning in words when I say that I mean to oppose any attempt to reimpo&e* a duty on corn, whether for the purpose of protection or of rcA'cmie. (Loud cheers.) The course which the present Ministry pursue, while it is the one most convenient to themselves, is the one most inconvenient to the country. If they can obtain from this time till February next, without professing any principles — (Cheers) — but endeavouring to get together, by one means or another, a majority for the next Parliament, undoubtedly that is a great advantage to thomj but the whole country is, in the meantime, to bo kept in suspense for the convenience alone of the right honorable gentlemen opposite, in order to promote whose interests we are to sacrifice all the great and permanent interests of the country. (Hear, hear and cheers.) Mr. Henies charged the noble 'lord and, his friends with carrying on a factious opposition. Sir J. Graham rose in consequence of the challenge of Mr. Disraeli to state the grounds of the opposition he was assumed to be about to offer to her Majesty's Government. He was not about to offer any factious opposition to the Government ; but the question now at issue, he considered, affected the happiness and well-being of every individual in the community. It was not a question of a ss. or a 7s. duty upon corn, but whether the whole of a commercial policy should be reversed, the result of which had far exceeded the most sanguine expectations of its authors. He had no doubt whatever as to the policy intended by the present Government — namely, to dissolve Parliament for the purpose of imposing a duty upon imports, and among them a duty upon corn. In order to prove this, he read a series of avowals made by Lord Derby, that a reversal of the Free Trade policy was indispensable. He then reminded the House that Mr. Gladstone had refused to join Lord Derby last year, because the noble Lord had said, " I think import duties must again be imposed," and that therefore, the noble Lord had abandoned his attempt to form a Ministry. Lord Derby had actually proposed to Lord Palmerston to join the present .administration and had been refused, on the ground that Lord Palmerston could not unite with a Ministry which intended to re-im pose a tax on corn. Sir James then referred, as farther confirmation to the speeches of Mr. Christopher and Sir J. Trollope. I siy, continued the hon. Baronet, there is in these right hon. gentlemen perfect frankness and no guile ; I had almost said, that these were Disraeli's indeed, (Loud laughter.) I heard the noble Earl at the head of tiie Government in a late speech of his say, " I know that I am in an undoubted minority in v the House of Commons, and I appeal therefore to the forbearance of the House." I deny absolutely that in the whole course of our Parliamentary history such an admission was ever made by any Minister, or that any such appeal for forbearance Avas ever asked. Sir J. quoted the precedents of Mr. Pitt in 1784. Earl Grey in 1831. Lord Melbourne in 1841, and especially Earl Derby's speech in that year against any such concession. He then referred to the improvements going on in agriculture, and continuing during the existence of Sir R, Peel's Government; the duke of Buccleuch agreed with Lord Derby that it was not Avise to suspend the operation of the Corn-laws in December, 1845, unless a pledge were given by all his colleagues that the attempt should be made to reimpose the duty upon corn as soon as the emergency had ceased. The Earl of Derby contended for that pledge, and the Duke of Buccleuch concurred in I that view. The Duke of Buccleuch is one of our largest landowners, taking into account the area of cultivated land possessed by him, and Lord Derby knows the truth of what I am about to state, that the Duke of Buccleuch, Avho, in 1844, agreed with him, stated last year that he aa^s then in the receipt of as much rent as he had ever enjoyed — (hear, hear) — of as much rent as he desired to receive — (hear, hear), that he had not a tenant whom he Avished to keep Avho was not ready to pay him his rent, and that any attempt to reimposo the Corn-laws Avas to be deprecated as most dangerous to the owners of the land. ( Hear and cheers. ) Thus the duke of Buccleuch who once agreed Avith Lord Derby as to the propriety of raimposing the Corn-laAvs, iioav differs from him toto cosh with respect to the restoration of Protection. (Hear, hear.) I have talked of Dukes and great men ; alloAV me noAv to call your attention to the poorer classes in that country of which the Duke of Buccleuch is one of the most worthy, as he is one of the greatest proprietors. I have before me some statistics of GlasgoAv published in a most authentic form in Dr. Strang's "Social Statistics of Glasgow." After quoting a passage from Dr. Strang, Sir James said I not only say AA'ith the Duke of Bueeleuch, that-therc is much danger in attempting to reverse our present commercial policy, but say that there is something more trembling in the balance than either Corn-laAvs, or no Corn-laAA's, import duties, or no import duties. (Hear, hear). If the result of your dissolution of Parliament should be a majority in favour of a reversal of that policy in which the comfort, the interests, the feelings of the people are bound up, there will not 'be against your policy, but against the ' representative system, a feeling of discontent which it Avill be difficult to allay. (Loud cheers.) I haA r e heard it stated that this Government, whose policy is stated, not in details, but generally, to be a protective system, arc bent upon introducing a system which the head of the Government in the other House, described as conduciA-e to "peace on earth and good will towards men." (Hear, hear.) Solemn and awful words '. (Hear.) But lam satisfied that if this policy is adopted, it is not peace that it will bring, but ill-feeling, discontent, and such animosities between class and class as you do not expect, and the consequences of which I cannot foresee. (Cheers.) In conclusion, Sir. Jame3 reiterated on his part a declaration made by the late Sir It. Peel, that there was no sacrifice lie was not prepared to make to uphold a policy, which in his heart, in conscience, he believed to be indispensable to the peace and well-being of the great body of the people. (Cheers.) Mr. Walpole said it Avas not intended to reverse the policy of Free-trade, but to modify it so as to do justice to all interests. Mr. Gladstone urged the necessity for a Government to have the confidence of the House of Commons to be effectiA r e for its duties. He Avas glad the present Government had taken office, because it Avould bring the question of Free-trade or Protection to an issue ; but they had a right to demand that the moment the necessary business was disposed of, an appeal should he made to the country. The supplies, the Mutiny Act, and the bill for disfranchising St. Albans, were necessary measures ; but the other measures enumerated Avere not such as the present Parliament ought to be continued for. Lord Palmerston thought the House should slioav forbearance to Ministers, to enable them to carry on the business AA'hich must be gone through before a dissolution ; but that done, it Avas the duty of the Government to take the sense of the country on the great questions Avhich it Avas understood they intended to submit, and then to call Parliament together at the earliest possible moment. He had no doubt that the verdict o f

the country, when taken, would be for the maintenance of free-trade. The House adjourned at one o'clock.

Dissolution. — Friday, April 2. ' Lord John Russcr.r. then said that much apprehension had arisen in.the public mind/rom ft belief that the Government had changed its intentions upon the subject of !an early dissolution. He was aware of the inconvenience of adverting to words supposed to have passed in conversation elsewhere, and he would abstain from so doing; but he thought that on Monday, before going into "committee of supply, the house ought to have explanations as to the intentions of government. He himself felt the more bound to urge this, as, by bis advice, there had been an abstinence from interruption to government business, and fourteen millions of money had been voted with unexampled celerity. The Chancellor of tbe Exchequer had no wish to interfere with any legitimate discussion on going into Committee of Supply, but he had also no wish to delay until Monday, explanation on a most important subject. He admitted the inconvenience of adverting to words spoken elsewhere, but be bad such intimate and complete acquaintance with the views of the First Minister, that he could unhesitatingly say that a very great misconception had taken place during tbe last two or three days. There wa* no foundation for the idea that Lord Derby's views had in the least degree changed. It was, as it always had been, the intention of government to advise a dissolution as soon as the measures necessary for the service of the Crown and the security and good government of the country should be passed, and to meet a new Parliament under circumstances which would give it ample opportunity to decide on the character of tbe policy of government. But no person who had ever been a servant of the crown could seriously call on a minister to state tbe day on which he would dissolve. It was impossible to fix the date within an hour, or a day, or a week, or a month. Circumstances might occur to render the fulfilment of such a pledge impossible. But La reiterated tbe declaiation above given as to the intentions of government. Mr. Hume said that the one thing wanted was a statement of what the " necessary measures" were. There was an idea that there existed an unwillingness to give that information. Tbe subject then dropped,

The Ministry. — Monday, April 5. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Mr. Bernal Osborne demanded from a the Chancellor of the Exchequer a trore distinct detail of the plans and policy of ministers for the government of the country. Remarking on the inconvenience of the Prime Minister being a member of the Huose of Lords, and hinting that Lord Derby's ''explanations" savoured less cf chivalry than of the peculiar piudence of Newmarket-heath, he observed that the country had no guarantee what measures might, or might not, be deemed '• necessary." On the Maynooth grant, oa the question of the Irish distillers and millers, on the Free-trade and Protection questions generally, he said that Government and its supporters dealt in mystification, and were lowering the character of the Legislature in the eyes of the country. Lord J. Manners said the Chancellor of the Excbequar had repeatedly and explicitly declared the course which the Government intended to pursue, and there was no discrepancy between his declarations and those made in another place. If the combined opposition thought they had a majority in that house, let them appeal to it, and the government would not shrink from the issue of a general election, being anxious, as soon as the necessary business was transacted, to abide by that constitutional test. So long, however, as the opposition did not exercise the power which they boasted they had, they ougfht, in justice to the country, to discontinue tl is course of interruption, and tllow the necessaiy business of the- country, to be conducted. Mr. Roebuck asked why the question vraa not brought to an issue by a direct vote of that house. He charged the government with being in office on false pretences, and he took as an example the conduct of their leader in tbat house, yrho had Fastened upon the late Sir Robert Peel, pursuing him night after night ; he bad assumed office as the great Protectionist chief, and he (Mr. Roebuck) appealed to the house whether there bad ever been so remarkable a difference of opinion as that of Mr. Disraeli in opposition and in office. He now said " the country will decide," but what would it decide 1 The question of protection ? No ;it was to decide " upon our policy." But what was that policy? Had Mr. Disraeli been thus vague in opposition 1 Oh, no. He had ridden to power on the back of Protectionists, with the cry of " protection," but now it was " our general policy." This shuffling course was highly mischievous for various reasons, and especially because it created in men's minds a low opinion of the morality of public men. Ho called upon Lord John Rubsell, for his own character, and for the sake of the country, to bring this question to a settlement. Mr. Adderley criticised the character of Mr. Roebuck's attack, insisted on the clearness of Lord Derby's declarations, and called on the opposition to divide on the first government measure which should not appear a necessary one. He stated that he had for some time entertained the belief that the opinion of the country was opposed to protection. Mr. Villiers after justifying the course he had taken with reference to his own notice on the subject of freetrade, remarked upon the importance of Mr. Adderley's admission, and upon the dishonesty of govern ment in going to the country on the chance of getting a majority by some means or other, although they knew tbat th) public opinion, by which they professed to be guided, was against them. There bad never been a plain answer given by the government as to what they meant to do, and he therefore complained of the opposition being called factious. Mr. Henley said that it would be fair to retort by asking the opposition what they wanted. The country did not share the ignorance professed by the opposition as to the intentions of government, and was perfectly satisfied with the explanations which had been offered, nor would it consent to regard one question as the only one necessary to be considered. He taunted the freetraders with having let a free-trade government drop for want of support, and then with impeding the following government in canying on the business of the nation. The opinions of government remained unchanged ; but whether a party could carry out all its opinions depended on circumstances. He reiterated the declarations made by other members of tho ministry, and said that ask as many questions as opposition might, they could get no other answer. Mr. Sidney Herbert commented upon Lord J. Manners'assertion that impediments had been offered to public business, but justified the putting forth the constitutional aiguments which had on previous occasions been uiged, from the fact that the government had actually yielded to these arguments. But never had so much necessary public business bepn conducted with so little opposition or so little cavil. For himself, he declared that to the latest peiiod of his life lie should feel « pride in the course ?ie bad fafcen on free trade, and if that system were to be attacked, nothing! should prevent his giving bis utmost efforts to preseive it from alteiation of any kind. Describing the old Corn-Law as n system of out-door relief to the country gentlemen, he expressed his perfect satisfaction with the arrangement tbat had been come to for submitting the question to tht arbitrament of the country. Mr. Moore believed that the repeal of the Corn-Laws bad inflicted great injury in Ireland, but that his countrymen did not expect a return to protection, and that the Irish people had irrevocably determined that Lord John Russell should never again bold office . Sir John Tyrell charged the opposition with attempting to misunderstand the Government explanations, lie thought that the Chancellor of the Exchequer deserved a " crown of glory," for the mode in which he bsd demonstrated that the agriculturists had a better claim on the ground of justice than on that of protection. Mr. P. Howard dwelt upon the shoitcomings of government, whose measures had nearly all been prepared by their predecessors, whose parliamentary explanations had been evasive, and who had given to certain inquiries answers calculated to promote religious strife. Mr, Newdegate declared that the Protection Societies throughout the kingdom had given their confidence to Lord Derby because they believed him sincere, and because he was the minister most likely to promote a happy understanding between the protectionists and those with whom they differed. He defended the policy of Lord Derby in regard to dissolution, and commended him for not submitting to Mr. Cobden's dictation. Sir R. 11. Inglii declared his conviction that the government had no intention of protracting Ihe session ; but if the houso continued to interpose delay in the transaction of the business of the country the blame of a deferred dissolution would not rest with ministeis. The question was then put.