GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. [From the "Wellington Spectator," August 2nd.] Address to the Crown.

New Zealander, Volume 7, Issue 563, 6 September 1851, Page 3

GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. [From the "Wellington Spectator," August 2nd.] Address to the Crown.

The Colonial Slckltary of New Munster read to the Council an address to her Majesty, piaying for the adoption of an uniform system in the administration of the waste lands of the Crown. '1 he address, which was of considerable length, after adverting to the terms in which the Australian Waste Lands Act of 1842 was characteiized by Lord Stanley, as giving a guarantee for stability and consistency of purpose in the administration of the Crown Lands in the Australian Colonies, proceeded to show that the recurrence of thp evils pointed out by Lord Stanley has not been precluded, but the evils of even a graver chaiacter have been produced by the delegation of such extensive powers to distant and irresponsible Companies and Associations; and forcibly alluded to the extensive fluctuations in the value of land, and to the most lavish expenditure of the land funds which had taken place, and to the imposition of heavy liabilities on the resources of the colony, incuired in many instances without the consent, or even the knowledge of the colonial Government or the colonial public. After further illustrations of the evils arising from the present system, the address pioceeded to show that the Company had received from Government 270,073 acres which had been sold by thorn, and about 200,000 acres to be given in compensation to its purchasers, that the company had received a sum of as a boon, and a further payment to them was imposed on the colonial land fund of £268,000. If half the proceeds of the land (calculated at the upset price of £l per acre) and the sums expended on the Company had been applied to the purposes of colonization, 65,241 emigrants (one-third adults and two-thirds children) would have been introduced into the colony ; the cost of their passage being estimated at that paid by the Emigration Comtmsstoneis, while the number really introduced by the New Zealand Company amounted to 11,680 souls. The addressj of which the above is an impel feet outline, having been read, Mr. Cauilcy seconded its adoption by the Council. The AironNEY-GENEnAL of Nrw Zealand said, — As I intend, Sir, to support the motion now before the Council, on special {Hounds, I shall not be satisfied to give a silent vote upon the subject. If the address moved by the Colonial Secretary of New Munster had raised no other question than the maintenance of the system of disposing of the waste lands of the Crown, prescribed by the Australian Land Sales Act, I ■ should hare taken no part in the discussion, and should probatoly not have given a vote in its favour, because I am not so far satisfied of the excellence of the system, §o far at least as New Zealand is concerned, as to be induced to take any steps for securing its continuance. But the motion appears to me, Sir, incidentally to raise two other questions, of far greater importance, and on which I have long formed a most decided opinion: — 1 allude to the ever-changing terms and conditions on which the demesne lands of the Crown in New Zealand have been disposed of, both to public companies, and to private persons, — and to the formation < f settlements, in this country, by irresponsible absentee associations. He would be a bold man I think, Sir, who would undertake to determine what is, in general, the best mode of disposing of the waste lands of the Crown, or what is the mode of colonization best adapted to the condition and circumstances of New Zealand in particular. 13ut with reference to the system which has excited the greatest attention in modern times, and which has found most favour with the modern school of colonial politicians, — I allude to the system which seekß to secure and maintain the combination of land, capital, and labour, in a certain fixed ratio, — whatever may be its merits in principle, or as an abstract theory ; granting it to be entitled to all the merit which can be claimed for it by its author, I would nevertheless maintain that it never has been, and never can bo, fairly, and that it never ought to have been, tried at all in the colony of New Zealand. To try that experiment fairly, Sir, it is essential, amongst other things, that the projectors should possess the absolute power of regulating the use and the disposal of the whole of the territory, and an equally absolute power of regulating the supply of labour. Now when it is remembered that, at the time it was proposed to apply that system to the colonization of New-Zealand, 99-100 of the soil of the country was under the absolute control of its aboriginal owners and others ; and that there already existed in the country a native race capable of contributing largely to the supply of the labour market ; it would have been scarcely let,s ridiculous— scarcely less fatal to the success of the undertaking— and scarcely less fair to the author of the system in question — if the experiment had been tiled upon Salisbury Plain. But, although not prepared to say what is the best system of disposing of the waste lands of the Crown, or even that any fixed and unalterable system should be applied to this colony, 1 am prepared to maintain that it is both unjust to the actual bona jid" settler, and injurious to his interests first, to put foiward a system, as a fixed and permanent system, on the faith of which the settler is encouraged to rely ; and then, to depart fiom it, in order that some distant body of irresponsible projectors may have the opportunity of making l^ew Zealand the field of some crude and impiacticable undei taking. The conclusion, then, at which I arrive is, either that no fixed system of disposing of land in this country should be presenbed ; or, that if any &ucb system be adopted, then, that it be faithfully adhered to ; and seeing, that the system prescribed by the Australian Land Sales Act was brought into operation with all the weight which authority could gjve n, — that it purpoited to be a system which was to continue permanently in operation,— -that on the taith of that system the public have acted extensively in the Purchase pi' Crpwn hmh—ani, believing that it con-

tains no objpctionable punciple, I think that it ou^ht not to be lightly departed horn, and on that account alone I support the motion now before the Council. But that motion, Sir, raises another question. Is it expedient that colonization should be conducted by ii responsible absentee companies or associations ? With reference to that question it appears to me, t.o far a3 the experiment ha& been tried in New Zealand, that colonization by an irresponsible body of pnvate individuals lias tended neither to uphold the character of the nation, nor the rights of the aboiiginal owners of the soil, nor to promote the interests of the settlers, nor the welfare of the colony at large. A3 that once all powerful body — thi' New Zealand Company — has ceased to exist, and as their principal agent la no longer present iv the colony, I should, under ordinal j circumstances in common with the mover of the Address, hare felt aome delicacy in commenting on their proceedings; but when, on looking around, I find that the honourable member on the right was for many yeara in their service and em. ployment ; that my learned friend on the left 1a neai ly related to him who was believed to be the very nulhor of the New Zealand Company's existence, — of him in whom for many years that Company was believed to Jive, and move, and Lave its being ; — when in front of me I see one of the first and principal of the Company's officers, and when I observe amongst the Council other honourable members more or less connected with its leading members, I feel that I shall not be allowed to make any mis statement to their prejudice without being corrected and set right, and much of that delicacy, which otherwise 1 should have felt, is relieved. But at all times, and under all circumstances, I should be desirous of doing justice to the managing members of that body. For I beliere they may be divided into two classes, — I those who, without any personal objector interest, were J desirous of trying an experiment in colonisation in the Islands of New Zealand, with due regard to the rights and interests of its native inhabitants, — and those who took apart in the undertaking, actuated moie or less by personal or interested motives. But I have said, sir, that their proceedings, as a body, have tended neither to maintain tho honour of the Crown nor the rights of the native race. Now it will be within the knowledge of those who are acquainted with the eaily history of New Zealand, that when the colonization of tins country was undertaken by the British Government, that a minister of the Crown, in a formal stato paper, authoii» tatively made public, distinctly declared that its native inhabitants were a people, " Whose title to the soil and to the sovereignty of New Zealand was indisputable, and had been solemnly recognized by the British Crown :" that in the same document ha declared that, " We acknowledge New Zealand as a Sovereign and Independent State," and that the admission of the rights of the natives was " binding on the faith of the British Crown :" that " the Queen, in common with her Majest) 's immediate predecessor, disclaimed for heiself, and for her subjects, every pietension to seize on the Islands of New Zealand, or to govern them as a part of the dominion of Great Britain, unless the free and intelligent consent of the natives should br first obtained." The Council may also be aware that the British Government, deeming it desirable, as well for the benefit of hoiMajesty's subjects who were then beginning to settle in this country, as also for the permanent interests of the Native Race, that the soveieignty of New Zealand should be possessed by the Crown of England, coinsionrd Captain Hobson to proceed to New Zealand, and instructed him " that the chiefs should be induced, if possible, to contract with him as representing Her Majesty," for its cession to Great Britain: that Captain Ilobson was informed by her Majesty's Minister, that in selecting him for that duty "he had been guided by a firm reliance on his iipi ighiness and plain dealing :" that, thus commissioned, Captain IJobson had concluded with the native chiefs of this country a treaty since known by the name of the Treaty of Waitangi: that that treaty had been acted upon by the Government of the day : and that a succeeding colonial minister (Lord John Russell) had formally acknowledged that, " on that deliberate act and cession of the chiefs" rested the title of Great Britain to the sovereignty of New Zealand. Now I am quite willing to admit that when the New Zealand Company first put forward their scheme for planting settlements in New Zealand they also professed the most scrupulous regard for the iigbta of the natives, and an anxious desire to promote their interests, and to fuither their advancement in the social scale. Their professions in this respect were entirely in accordance with the unproved and enlightened spirit of the age ; and far be it f(om me now eitherto impugn their motives, or to question their sincerity. But the true value of good intentions, Sir, is best tested by temptation. In a few years the New Zealand Company's colomzingoperationfl were beset with difficulties, and there appeared to be but one mode of successfully surmounting them ; and that was by the violation of the treaty of Waitangi. That was the touchstone of their practical integrity. And how did they pass the ordeal 1 Tenderness for native rights, and anxiety for native advancement, may still have been felt, but were not then expressed — Fiat Justitu ruat Ccclnm. was not their cry, for thus we find them addressing a British minister :— -'* We have always had very serious doubts whether the treaty of Waitangi, made with naked savages, by a Consul inTested with no Plenipotentiary powers, without ratification by the Crown, oould be treated by lawyers as anything but a praiseworthy device for amusing and pacifying savaget for the moment." On the tone, the taste, the temper, and the principle displayed in this expression of opinion I will make no comment. I will not even insinuate that, in so far forgetting what was due to themseWes aa a body of Knglish gentlemen, the Directors of the New Zealand Company were then but throwing off the mabk. It is sufficient for my argument to maintain that their benevolent intentions, as regarded the natives of this country, were not so firmly grounded on principle as to stand the test of misfortune and adversity. Seeing, however, Sir, that 6uch a sentiment could be put for. ward by, or in the name of, a body of English gentlemen, ran it be doubted that if the aboriginal race of this country had be«n less powerful, and less able to hold their own — if the Colonial Minister had been a less high-minded and a lesu high-spirited gentloman, and less independent of political support — that the honour of the Crown would hare been in danger of being tarnished ; that the character of Great Britain for integrity and. good faith would have been in danger of being impaired, and that the lights, the interests, and the property of the natire race would have been trampled under foot ? thus realizing, to the verj' letter, the forebodings of the Colonial Minister (Lord J. Russell), that notwithstanding the philanthiopic intentions of irresponsible projectors, " it 13 only ia proportion as either respect for the strength of the aborigines, or a clear sense of the utility of their cervices and co-operation shall possess the public mind, that they will be placed beyond the reach of those oppressions, of which other races of uncivilised men hare been the victims." But Sir, the honour of the Crown and of the country, co far a« the Queen's Minister was concerned, was in honorable keeping, and a reply was returned to the suggestions of the New Zealand Company which deserve! to be impenshably recorded in the annals of this country's history — a reply which I hire myself never been able to read without a fooling of proud and plensureable emotion — a reply stamped with the impress of him who made it, and which cannot be more fitly characterised than as being worthy of a Minister of the British Crown. "Lord Stanley is not prepared, as her Majesty's Secretary of State, to join with the Company in setting aside the treaty of Waitangi, after obtaining the advantages guaranteed by it, even ' though it might be made by \ naked savages,' or * though it might be treated by law- I yers as a praiseworthy device for amusing and pacifying savages for the momeut.' Lord Stanley entertains a different view of therespect due to the obligations contracted by the Crown oj' England, nnd Ins final answer to the demands of the Company must be, that so long as he has tbe honor of serving the Crown, he will not admit that any person, or any Government, acting in the name of her Majesty, can contract a legal, moral, or honorary obligation to despoil others of their lawful or equitable rights." Having noticed the tendency of the New Zealand Company 'B colonising operations as to the rights of the native race, I will now call the attention of the Council to the proceedings of that Company, as they affected the interests of the settlers sent out by them. It is a fact within the knowledge of all present that the New Zealand Company received from their settlers ibe purchase money of land purpoited to be sold to them before the Company had themselves acquired a tide to it — that they sent out to this country many hundrprl ppople, not only before the land had been suiveyed for their u&e, not only before the purchase of the land from the natives had been completed by the Company — but before it was known where, throughout the length and bieadth of these Islands, they would be allowed to fiud a footing; a proceeding on the part of that Company, which 1 maintain, Sir, no responsible Government would have dared to have undertaken. And so far as the interests of the settlers themselves were concerned with what result? On that point I will make no statement of my own opinion, neither will I rely on the hasty expressions of a fe»v disappointed individuals, but 1 will quote an atithoiity which, on this point at least, will not be called in question. I will cite the dulibeiate written statement made by tbe Directors of tho Com-

pany in their aonunl report. At the end, then, of seven years from the commencement of the undertaking were their settles happy, contented and prosperous ? Speaking of the colonists who fiom time to time returned from New Zealand, was it to spend or enjoy a fortune realized in this country under the auspices of t)io Now Zealand Company ? Waa it for the purpoae of expressing their giatitude to the Company tor having planted them in prosperous circumstances ? What said the Dilectora themselves ? " The-se returned colonists," say they, "come straight to us, and afflict us with their complaints of disappointment and ruin." "We tell you," they add, " that it is our deliberate conviction that, unless a great change taLea place nnmediatplv, your settlements will not bo woith preserving. We come here to fatter away borrowed money — to considei claims which wo have no me ins of satisfying — to hear the mo3t distressing complaints, without being able to assist the sufferers." Such is the account given by the New Zealand Company themselves of the result of their colonising operations in this country. And what said the colonists themselves? Again, I will not quote the hasty expressions of a iew disippointed individuals, but the deliberate written statements of nearly the whole body of re-ident landholders in the settlements of Wellington and of Wanjranui — the statement of fifty-five out of, I believp, sixty-three claiming compensation from the New Ze.ilttnd Company. They say they apply, "not as supplicants for their bounty, not as men suing for favor at their hands — but as parties deeply and grievously injured — as men protesting against «reat wrongs inflicted by them, and, as such, demanding redress. And to what causes are the disasters which have befallen us attributable I You cannot and daro not deny," they affirm, addressing the New Zealand Company, " that the immediate and pioximate cause of our ruin has been the non-fulfilment, by you, of the contract formed with us seven years ago." Thus appealed to, Sir, by the men whose money they had received seven years before, how did the Company treat their land purchabers thus struggling at the antipodes with disappointment, disaster, and ruin 1 In answer to the cry of their settlers for bread, they gave them — not a stone, for thaf would hare been chanty, though cold charity — but, almost literally, a serpent, for they gave them that which must have stung them to the quick. They handed them over to the tender mercies of a Commissioner paid, if not appointed, by themselves, who deliberately leported that the manner in which the case of the fifty-live memorialists was " prepared and worked up, unequivocally betrayed, in several instances, the clearest signs oj genei al bad failh." And this, of the bulk and very flower of that body which had once been paraded, aud justly, to the world by the New Zealand Company, as the finest body of co- j lonists that ever left the parent state. Such was the result of that Company's colonising operations so far as their land purchases were concerned. With reference, Sir, to the class of labouring emigrants sent out by them, it would be unjust to the New Zealand Company not to acknowledge that, as a body, the emigrants had done well, aud bettered their condition by coming to New Zf alnnd. But in their case also, as well as in that of tlie land puichasers, it would not be difficult to point to instances of promises unfulfilled, or sought to be evaded. The Taranaki case, Sir, on any other evidence than the admission of the parties themselves, would be incredible ; but that case rests on the written statement of the Company's Taianala Agent, and was published by the Company themselves in the Appendix to their twelfth report. " You are aware," wntes the Taranaki Agent, " that the emigrants in this settlement held what they call ' embarkation orders," being a sort of handbill in which it is distinctly stated that the Company's Agent will "at all times" give them employment in the service of the Compauy, if Jrom any cause they should be unable to obtain it elsew here, " Being unable to give any other interpretation of this promise than the words quoted seemed to imply, and yet bearing in mind the Court of Directors view their engagement in a different light," now, Sir, what did the Agent do? "I emjea\oured to evade ir, by sending the applicants for employment a long distance from hornejmaknig no allowance for time spent iv the journe for time lost in bad weather. The necessity ' the men aud their families were such as compelled them to submit, for several weeks, to these conditions; but many came home sick and claimed the promised medical aid ; and others COMMENCED THE TIiADE OF PIG AND SHEbF BIEAMNd, not having yet had tune to raise potatoes for themselves." On such a case, comment is superfluous. With such proofs, Sir, of the efficiency of the New Zoaland Company as a colonising body, in the management of their own private estate in New Zealind, Parliament was induced in 1847 to vest the v hole of the dpmesne lands of the Crown in the Province of Ne7/ Munster in that Company, with a view " to restore the prosperity of the existing bettlements," and " to promote efficient colonizitiou," and for the like objects svas induced to grant to them, in addition to a previous loan of £100,000, 8 furthet loan of £136,000. How far they had succeeded m those objects may be seen from the Address which has just been read. Out of the sum of £236,000 less than ,£30,000 has been expended by them in emigration, ami so far a* reqaided ' their first and principal settlement,' they had done so much to restore its prosperity as, during a period of nearly three jears, to succeed in disposing of 2£ acres of land in that settlement ; and as to their settlements generally, notwithstanding the ample means at their disposal, they have ended their career without having given a single legal title to n single individual, of a single piece of land, leaving the whole of their contracts and engagements in respect of the sale and disposal of land during a period of twelve years, unfulfilled and uncompleted — leaving not only the Province of New Munster, but the whole colony of New Zealand, saddled with a debt of £260,000—leaving no lepresentative in the colony to assiat in the winding up or their affaiis, and leaving the whole Province in Buch a state of confusion as to claims and titles to land, that it has become essential to the continued progress of the Province that measures should be taken by the Colomal Legislature to ascertain what are the contracts and engagements which have been entered into by the New Zealand Company, during the last twelve years, for the sale and disposal of even their own pmate eatate, and to provide for the fulfilment and completion of those contracts by the Colonial Government, at a cost and in a manner which, for years to come, cannot iail injuriously to afl'ect the progress and prosperity of the Province. It may perhaps be said, however, Sir, by some advocate of the New Zealand Company's colonising efficiency, pointing to the settlement of Wellington — " Si monnmentntn qnaeris, clrcumspice." True it is, Sir, that this settlement is now in a prosperous condition : but to whom is it indebted for that prosperity? The local Government of New Zealand, from the foundation of the colony, have incurred no slight measure of abuse ; and Ido not mean to contend that no portion of that abuse has been deservod, but I do contend, Sir, and I challenge contradiction, that but for the timely assistance of the Government in completing the purchase of land from the natives, but for the expenditure in the settlement of large sums applied by the liberality of the British Parliament, but for the opening out of the distant pastoral and grazing districts by the construction of roada, and, more than all, but for the energy, the enterprise, the capital and the indomitable perseverance of the settlers themselves, the settlement of Wellington would, at this moment have been rapidly sinking into an insignificant village. With such an example, it might lie supposed sufficiently illustrative of irresponsible colonisation, another colonising body was formed in England, who put forward what may be termed a magnificent vision of colonisation. I thing I need hardly say, Sir, that I allude to the Canterbury Association. As that Association is still in the vigour of its existence — as it is composed of numerous influential parties both in Church and State, as it is, so to speak, graced bj the names of Archbishops, Bishops, and dignitaries of the Church, as it appears to enjoy at home the confidence of the Government and of Parliament, and :ih it is represented in the colony by a gentleman of distinguished character and abilities — it would bean affectation of delicacy to refrain from expressing a candid opinion of the undertaking Hnd of the proceedings of its projector-. But in speaking of the Canterbuiy scheme, I would diaw a marked distinction between its projectors in England and those who have actually embaiked themselves and their foitunes in eudeavounng to carry it into execution in the colony. The latter, I think, ought, to be leceived with the most kindly and coulul welcome, aud ought to bate extended to them, with a liberal hand, every assistance and encouragement that can be afiorded tbem ; not so much because I believe they deserve tho chaiacter they have acquiied of being the finest body of colonists, who have yet aruved in this countiy, but because, in common with oi:)-,elvi>s, they have become actual colonists of New Zealand. Of the result of the undeitakmg itself it may perhaps appeal prematuie to hazatd an opinion ; but freely admitting that the Association will have lwn the means ot planting in New Zealand what will ultimately prove a valuable and pio->perous settlement, 1 must, nevoitliGlesa declaio that I no soonei saw the original piospectus of tho undei taking than I was satisfied that it contained tho elements of certain rpl (-destruction — that a3 a gi tat a lieine of colonuntio nn its pntiiety it never woujd be, and never

could ho, can if d into full vfi'ou — tb;\t the Association itself, like the Nosy Zealand Company, would cease te exist heime thoir undertaking was half completed, ani that, like the New Zealand Company, they woulc leave the colony, the Piovince, or the settlemen 1 saddled with a debt. Such, it is trup, is but or opinion, but it is an opinion which hai beoa shared ir by nil in vvho.se hearing it has been expressed. Seeing too, that, after all the unprecedented efforts which have been made by the members of tbp Association, clerical and lav, to dispose of land in the Canterbury settlement, and after all this lapse of time, not more than twenty thousand acres have yet been disposed of — seeing, too. that the Association have already applied to Parliamenl not only for power to male an alteration in the terms of their scheme, but also to raise money by the ihsuo ol debentures, I think I have n right to contend that the opinion I have ventured to express has beon so fai verified by experience. But apart, Sir, from probable failure of the undertaking as a complete scheme of colonisation, it is impossible to observe tho proceedings of its projectors without seeing that they tend not only to establish in this colony an Impermm in Imperio, but to strike at the root of all local Government whatever. On a former occasion I moved for the production of a correspondence which had taken place between the Canterbury Association and her Majesty's Government on the appointment of Resident Magistrates, Justices of the Peace, and other officers. And now that the Council hare had an opportunity of perusing that correspondence, I will appeal to them to say whether I have either mis-stated or misapprehended the tendency of their proceedings. One portion of that correspondence is particularly deserving their attention. After referring to the appointment of a Resident Magistrate — after requesting that that appointment might be reserved for a gentleman who had not then left Ergland — that pending his arrival in the colony their own agent (Mr. Godley) might be appointed his locum tenens, the Association, addressiag the colonial minister, proceed to say that " they do not hesitate to add a further wish on their part, as regards all other local appointments, that his (Mr. Godley's) 'judgment and recommendation* may be accepted by the local authorities as the ' rule of selection,' so far as possiblp, and to the utmost extent to which such a rule can be properly applied. I refer particularly," adda the Secretary of the Association, "to the appointment of unpaid Magistiates, and to those othpr subordinate offices to which I have already adverted ; indeed it would be extremely satisfactory to the association if the rule could be extended to every part of the establishments in the colony." Honourable members may perhaps think, Sir, and very naturally so, tb&t I have been quoting from the pagps of a certain well-known witty and facetious publication ; but I can assure them that instead of being a piece of imaginary facetiousness, it is a piece of very facetious reality. And if the agent of the Association possess, as I doubt not he does, the qualities and chaiacter which public fame and private friends alike ascribe to him, I believe that that gentle- | man will be the first to regret that the Association should have adopted a proceeding which not only tends to erect the Canterbury Settlement into an " Imperium in Imperio," but which appears to throw a doubt on the I sincerity of the Association in advocating the extension j to New Zealand of the principle of local self-govern- [ ment. When a new settlement is to be founded in a | country already settled, the best method of providing for its government would seem to be for the local Government, on its own official responsibility, from amongst j those already in the colony, and who are acquainted I with its institutions, to select ouch persona a» may, from [ their practical knowledge and experience be best qualified to aid in the founding of a new settlement and in administering its laws. But it would seem that the Canterbury Association, not content with securing a portion of this country on which to try a new and peculiar scheme of colonization, but they must also endeavour to erect that otherwise exceptional settlement into an " Imperium in Imperio" to be governed by a body of private individuals resident in England. For we find an irresponsible Association in England moving her Majesty's minister to move her Majesty's responsible representative in the colony to abdicate his official functions, to set aside his own judgment, and to act at the instance of their own agent in the appointment of the officers nece?sary for carrying on the Queen ' 3 Government. In other words, we find a self-elected body of private individuals, having no responsibility— official or pecuniary— in no degree amenable to public opinion in the colony, seeking to indues a minister of the Crown to move the Queen's representative and responsible Governor of the colony, who had long been resident in, and who was well acquainted with, the circumstances and condition of the country, to accept, as the rule for bis guidance, the ''judgment and recommendation" of a gentleman but recently arrived in the colony, and who, however high may be his public character and private worth, yet as the agent of a private at>uv?.;i«uon, is an I officer unknown to the constitution of the colony ; who I has no official responsibility, who has no fixed interest j in the colony, acd for whose continued residence in it there is not the slightest guarantee. Such sir, are the attempts of the Association to interfere with the government of the state. Whether they have made the like atlempta to interfere in tho government of the Church I am not prepared to state. Whether they have mo?ed the Archbishop of Canterbury to move the Bishop of New Zealand to abdicate his Episcopal functions, and to put his cot icience into commission ; or whether — waving ceremony — they have taken the readier course, and themselves created their own bishops, priests, deans, chapters, and archdeacons, perhaps some other honourable member may be able to inform the Council ; but if they have taken the foimer course, I may venture to affirm they have found that they have attempted to move what will prove to be very immovable materials. Not longer then, to trespass on the patience of the Council, but entertaining great respect for many of the leading members of the late New Zealand Company, entertaining the like respect for some of the active members of the Canterbury Association, allowing to the New Zealand Company all the credit which may be due to them for having founded three settlements in this country at no inconsiderable cost of energy, enterprize, capital, and •ufFering, on the part of the colonists ; admitting also that the Canterbury Association will be the means of founding what will ultimately prove a valuable and important settlement, 1 would nevertheless contend, Sir, so f<ir as the experiment has been tiied in Npw Zealand, that the work of colonization cannot, consistently with the honour of the Crown, the character of the nation, the rights of aborigines, the interests of settlers, 1 and the welfare of the colony ot large, be safely enI trusted to an irresponsible body of private individuals, associated together for the purpose of buying, selling, and making a profit by the sale of tho waste lands of the Crown. The Colonial Secretaiiy or New Munster said he had listened with some surprise to the speech of the lion, member, If the address he had had the honour to propose to Council was to be adopted in the spirit which dictated the hon. member's speech, he would withdraw it, and propose himself that it be rejected at once. Fiotn almost every opinion expressed by the hon. member Le entirely dissented. With rpspect to the Treaty of Waitaugi, he had a hundred times expressed his utter contempt for that transaction in speech and in print ; and at that moment he felt as strong a contempt for it as he had ever given utterance to. But the principle on which it was based, that of acknowledging the natives' title to the waste lands, however absurd in the abstract, had now been acted on so long and so generally, that it would be unwise as well as impracticable to meddle with it. It would, he believed not be difficult to answer the whole statement of the hon. member, by counter statements which would throw most of the blame of the proceedings he attacked the Company 1 for, upon the Government. But he (the Colonial Secretary) could see no possible good to be got from ripping up these old quarrels and giievances, and evoking once more tho ghost of the Treaty of Waitangi, which he thought had been so long hud and got rid of. lie could see no public benefit to be attained by such a discussion, and had no piivate feeling whatever which could make him desirous of joining in it. He believed everything was before the public that was necessary to enable it to foim a just judgment of the jespcclive merits and demerits of the Company and the Government, and that ample justice would be done without any further agitation of the quet>tion to all paities concerned in the transactions tho hon. member had detailed. Mr. Bell observed that, having been referred to by his learned fiiend in his very able speech to correct any statement ho had advanced, it he were to enter into detail he should object to the greater part of what his learned fnend had said. He could not, however, rofrain horn referring to his expression of opinion on a gentleman now dead, whose memoiy was held in lespect by nil paities, he alluded to the late Charles Buller. The expiessions relating to the treaty of Waitangi, a'ludcd to by his Iparned fiiend, had been deliberately written by that gentleman, and the treaty had also been characterised by the present Spcrelary of State for the Colonies as " that thing the treaty of Waitangi," thus treating it, as f.ir as his expression of opinion went, with the greatest contempt. If he (Mr. hell) weie to take advantage of his learned fneml's invitation, ho thought he could

effectually coiiect the greater part of what he bad advanced, but such a course would tire the Council without any good result. The ArronNET GrNrnAL of New Zcai \nd — In reply to the remaiks of the mover of the address, said I have to state that, ao far was it from my intention to raise angry feeling, or to revive forgotten disputes, that I spoke most carefully ond guardedly; making no statements of my own, but in all cases quoting, in their own words, the admissions and the statements of the parties concerned ; my sole object being 1 to bring p.ist experience to bear on the consideration of a question of present practical importance. On the subject of the Treaty of Waitangi, I have been entirely misunderstood by lion, members who have spoken on the subject. It wag not my intention to maintain, and I did not maintain, the policy of entering into that treaty ; but that treaty, as I took some pains to shew, having; been mide in the name of the Crown — by the authority of the Crown — and having been recognised and acted on by the Crown — I for one, whatever others may do, am not prepared to approve a suggestion for its violation on the ground of aome meie legal defect or technical informality. If, however, I have said anything which, in the opinion of the Council, I ought not to have said j or if 1 have said anything in a manner in which I ought not to have said it, I am quite willing to be corrected, and wish to be informed. The address was unanimously adopted.