GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. (From the "Wellington Spectator," July 26.)

New Zealander, Volume 7, Issue 562, 3 September 1851, Page 2

GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. (From the " Wellington Spectator," July 26.)

posed the item should be struck out, seconded by Mr. Cautley. The Licuievant-Governor intended to vote for the continuance of the Chaplain, who had several duties, ns tbe hospital and g<iol, to attend to. At the tune the appointment was made there was only one minister of the Church of England in Wellington, and if from any cause he was absent it followed, as a matter of couise, that the members of that Church, who constituted the greater portion of this large community, were without any miniatiations of religion. He should be sorry to see the Council refuse to sanction the appointment, as it was necessary a recognized person should he appointed to minister to the spiritual wants of our hospitals and gaols. The Colokial Secretary of New Zealand opposed the amendment. Mr. Bell, while professing the greatest respect for the person holding the office, should support the amendment because he conceived the proposal rested on the propriety or impropriety of supporting one religious denomination at the expense of the State. In reference to visiting the hospitals and gaols, he thought those institutions should be equally visited by ministers of all denominations. Sir George Grey would defend the appointment of the Colonial Chaplain on two grounds. Notwithstanding what had been said by hou. members, he considered the Church of England in New Zealand to be an oppressed church, not a dominant one. Instead of the law protecting the church, it was labouring under peculiar disabilities, and was therefore entitled to the conipt»ssion of the Council. If he (Sir George) turned to the Church of Rome, he found they had the power of appointing bishops, of making districts, of sending priests, and of doing everything required for the constitution and dicipline of a church. The We9leyan Chnrch had a perfect church establishment, in the appointment of their ministers, in collecting subscriptions,, and in everything relating to the internal government, of their body. If he wished to see the Church of England with a complete government, the law prohibited it ; and he would contend that, instead of dominating over other churches, it was by the necessity of the law below every other. The great majority of the community belonged to the Church of England, and it was the bounden duty of the Council to provide for the spiritual wants of the patients in the hospital, of prisoners, &c, and no chnrch embraced so large a number of the inhabitants. He was perfectly satisfied the appointment ought to be made, as the great majority had a clear right to the services of a chaplain. This question appeared to involve no question of religious liberty. The Colonial Secretary of NewMunster confessed his astonishment at the new view of the st.ite of the Colonial Church q£«iEngland put forth by His Excellency. He had certainly been in the habit of looking upon it as a body possessed of more wealth and influence than any other religious sect in tbe country. But if the law as it stood really bore so hardly upon this church, and it actually ww' in such a poor and oppressed condition as toifave a claim upon the compassion of the Council, he thought a pitiful grant of £200 a-year would not go very far to relieve it. He thought a better way to remedy the evil would be Jor it to exert its influence with the church in the mother country of which it was a branch, and whose wealth and power at least were undoubted, to get the laws that oppressed it repealed or amended. Nor could he allow that the line of argument taken by His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor justified the grant. Had His Excellency maintained that the Chaplain was part of his private establishment, one in short of a Governor's staff necessary to his state and dignity, he thought the position would be much more tenable. Then, at least, every Governor would have the right of choosing a cnaplaiu of his own religious persuasion, and something like a fair principle would be gone upon. But as he rested the propriety of the grant on the general benefit te the colony, all the objections to partial encouragement of one religious body over the rest were immediately admitted. Why should not the Wesleyans, the Independents, tbe Primitive Methodists, the Roman Catholics, claim equal assistance from the State ? It was said that by far the majority of settlers belonged to this church. He believed their numbers had been overstated, and that they leally constituted only about one-half of the whole population. But the larger their numbers, and as they contained among them certainly that portion of the community which had most wealth, was not this the very reason why they should be tha last to come for assistance? Again it was said, the grant was to provide for religions ministration to prisoners in gaol and patients in the hospital. But was it not notorious that ministers of other sects gnve their attention gratuitously? Had they not heard' of public complaints, that the ministers of some sects, of one at least in particular, had been too assiduous in these attentions ? Did they ask for payment for these services 1 Then why should all denominations pay for spiritual ministratration which would only be given to the prisoners and patients of one ? If it was necessary that payment should be given to secure such ministration, which he did not acknowledge, why not say so plainly, and pay every one alike for such ministration? If that was to be done, he had rather see a sum fixed, to be paid for each visit of a minister of any persuasion to those of his sect. That at least would be straightforward and fair. He should certainly vote against the grant. After some further discussion the Committee divided. For the amendment 6, against it 7. Amendment lost. In the Item Colonial Bank of Issue the salary of clerk was raised to .£125. The Committee then adjourned, The Council again went into Committee on the estimates. The remaining items of the estimates for Wellington were severally agreed to. In considering the items for Nelson, Mr. Cautley alluded to tbe practice of confining lunatics in gaols, ami regretted no lunatic asylum had been established in New Zealand. Sir George Grey observed on the subject of lunatics, that it was an object of the greatest concern to him there was no luuatic asylum for tbeir reception ; in the early stage of the colony this was one of those wants, arising from so many small settlements which had been formed in these Islands, which it was difficult for the GoTernment to supply. A lunatic asylum was a most expensive buildiug to establish, but nothing would delight him more than to see such an institution foiraed. On the item of £300 for repair of roads at Nelson being proposed. Mr. CAurr.cv expressed great satisfaction in seeing ; the sum of £300 placed on the estimates for the repair ■of roads and bridges in that settlement. The honmember then referred to two memorials he had prej sented in the early part of the session, the one requesting assistance towards tbe repair of the roads, the other for aid towaids the erection of a bridge over tbe Maitai. He would move the sum of ,£7OO be placed on tbe estimates for the repair of roads, &c, and he thought if the roads were once put in a good state of repair the settlers would cheerfully tax themselves to maintain them in that state. Sir George Grey had no difficulty in agreeing to the vote if the Council thought proper. He believed the estimate or the revenue at Nelson was understated,, as the fees of Crown lands and other sums arising from the same source would be added, but were not included in the estimates because the bill authorising them had not yet passed the Council. Of course it was understood if the revenue was not sufficient the sum would not be granted, but he had little doubt there would besufficient funds to meet the amount. The sum of £70 was also voted for improving Nelson harbour. On the items of Resident Magistrate's and Police Departments at Lyttelton being pioposed, Sir Giorge Grly explained that, although a salary was put on the estimates for the Resident Magistrate at Lyttelton, Mr. Godley, the Resident Agent of the Association, who was willing at the beginning of the settlement to unite the two offices, declined at the time of his appointment to receive any salary ; but as it might become necessary, when he found the duties too onerous, to appoint some other person, the amount of the salary of Resident Magistrate had been placed on the estimates. At the time tbe Principal Agent accepted the office of Resident Magistrate, as it became, impossible for him to discharge all its duties, be (Sir George) thought it better, instead of appointing a Serjeant-major of police, to appoint a superior officer as Sub-Inspector, who might offer some assistance to the Resident Magistrate. Sir GtoncE Grky wished to bring 1 before the Council a letter from the Resident Magistrate at Lyttelton enclosing certain resolutions passed at a public meeting, and referring to a memorial which he had not yet received. The resolutions, which were read, sought assistance from the Government fcr laying down moorings for the shipping at Lyttelton. Mr. Bull had some expeiiencc in these matters ana considered £1000 would not cover the expense. The moorings sent out by the New Zealand Qompany to New Plymouth had cost .£l2OO, and required to be taken up every six months, the ships required to lift

them being Iftiger thim those for which they were laid dim n. Sir GronGr Grey thought tlio question had bettor be left for the piesent to the Government and tho Resilient M.igisti ate of that settlement. Ho would see ihe subject was not lost sight of. jll tho estimates for Olago, on tho Supreme Court department being proposed. J\]r. Cauii ly considered a judge at Otago, in » population of 1,600 persons, n most useless appointment, and, if lie stood atone) would divide the committee ou this question. Sii Geokok Gm v coiißidored this a mistaken view of the subject, us although the Judge's snlaiy was clmiged on the estimates o( Otago, it was leally defrayed by the general revenue, and no Council would bo able to interfere with it. He also thought that if tlio appointment was not absolutely necessary at present, a thud Judge would bo shortly lequned. The Judge at Otago was a Judge of the Supreme Couit, and might sit in any part of the country. TlicCoioniai/Slcrktart of Nuvv Munstiu would support Mr. Cautley's nmendmdnt. The Judge having been appointed by the Home Government, it would be difficult to dispose of him ; but ho consideied there wns ■hardly enough work for two judges. Sir Gmmioi Gniv would only state, with reference to this appointment, that the Homo Government were not to blamo, the appointment was m.ido on tlio repieBcntftiion of the officer administrating the Government of this piovince, who had htiongly urged the necessity of such an appointment. The only effect of pressing this motion would ho to call tho attention of the Home Government to the subject, and befoie the representation of the Council con'kl reach them the necessity of the appointment would be appaient. ]\lr. Bill thought that, on the introduction of steam communication, one of the Judges might be dispensed with, and a gioat many other offices might also be suppressed with advantage. Sir Gfouc.k Gum conceived that rapidity of communication would render necessary the appointment of another Judge, as increase of wealth would increase the number of appeals, winch would require tho appointment of a thud Judge. If tho Council wished to do any tiling on a basw likely to be permanent, and to produce a good oflect, they might addiess the Crown, so that it might be perfectly understood that for the future no Judges should be created in New Zealand, until an address to the Crown from, the General Legislative Council of the colony requested their appointment. It was perfectly possible that these Associations in connection with New Zealand might send out their own judges without reference to the people in the colony, until Wow Zealand might be completely ovcrjudged. After some further discussion His Excellency's suggestion was agreed to. On the motion of the Colonial SicntMitY of New Munsii h, the sum of £'228 15s. wus voted for repairs of roads and budges in Dunedin. On a grunt of £200 to the New Zealand Society being proposed, Mr. Cauti.ey objected to the grant as premature, the Society having been but recently formed. 6ir Glorgu Grey was almost inclined to doubt whether New Zealand was not prematnre altogether, when ho heaid objections to the institutions of hospitals, to, the appointment of Judges, and to tho grant to this Society, as being premature. The reason why no sum had been placed on the estimates for the Mechanics' Institute was that it was a local Institution. Jle thought the New Zealand Saciety would piovemost useful to the colony. The Society had been established on principles similar to that of the Van Diemen's Land Society, which had now been in existence four years, and which had boon productive of groat benefit to that colony. The grant to tho Van Diemen's Lnad Society was £400, nnd bo bad proposed half that sum for this Society. The very fact of possessing a moderate share of ability should induce them to nuiture what they had, and endeavour fiom the earliest period of the colony to cultivate and devclope those talents that would be useful to society. In recommending this grant ho thought ho was doing a wise act, and what would be really beneficial to the colony. The vote was opposed by the Colonial Tnixsunin, who wished to divide the committee on this question, but he was not supported. The Colonial Si cm i aky of New Munsi r.it proposed a grant of £<<!(){) to the Mechanics' Institute at Wellington. The motion was seconded by Mr. IJell, and voted on tho understanding that jfclOO was to be applied to the general purposes of the Institution, nnd to be devoted to the puichase of standard woika, to form tho nucleus of a library. The sum of £i,M)O was pieced on the estimates for the erection of a gaol at Wellington. The committee then adjourned.