House of Commons.

New Zealander, Volume 7, Issue 554, 6 August 1851, Page 3

House of Commons.

Lord Palmer3ton, in reply to an inquiry by Mr. Anstey, stated that her Majesty's Government had addicted remonstrances, not only to the Courts of Vienna and lJSeilm, hut to each and all of the States composing tho Germanic Confederation, upon the subject of measures in contemplation by Austria and Prussia, to fiecure the admission into tho Confederation of tlioir non Guimnn tpmtories, ami that ho had no doubt tb.it the Treaty of Vienna would be obbeived. Sir W. Mouswonm moved lesolutions to the effect that steps bboulcl be t.ikon to relieve tins counciy fiom its picsenl civil andnniitaiy expenditure on account of the colonies ; and that it is expedient to give to the inhabiinnt'3 of the colonies, which aie neither military stations noi convict bultlement.s, amjile poweis for their local self-government. He be^jti by stating "he amount of tho expenditure inclined by the United Kingdom on account of the colonies. According to the la^t return for ltt<lo-<l7, this amount was £3, M0, 000, thecivil expenditum bcMtiy X,>l)O,()OO, the military ,£:> ? ()0U,()0(). This charge had rapidly increased from £1,800,000 in 1153^; and the sum of £3,000,000 did not oovei the whole of the military expoudilure ; to this sum, which repu'sciHod the aciu.il disbitrscmcnls iv the (olonie", must bo added tliose al homo for tho non-eflective service, or a propoi lion of the dead weight, wlncli he took at fiveelevcnlhb of the effective chaise, oi £1,000,000 ; which

made (i tot;il of £1,000,000. The whole question as to the reduction of tins expendihne resolved Hself into the necessity of maintaining 41,000 or <l">,000 men in the colonies. Ho contended that it was only Decenary to garrison oij^ht military sta'ions with 17,000 men, which would cost £1150, 000, not much exceeding the chaige for the Capo of Good Hope nlone, with n Caffre w.ir. The colonies, properly so called, in North America, thu West Id(lh>3, Austialanin, and South Al'nca, toolc 26", 000 men, nt the coat to this country of £2,600,000 n-year, about Bs. 6d. in tho pound of our exports to the colonies, and neaily equal to their local revenue. Tf these colonies were governed as they ought to ho, he contended that no troops would be required there nt the expense of the imperial Treasury, except for the military stations and convict establishments. A military foice demanded for colonial purposes should bo paid by the colony; if for unpeii.il objects, by tho niothor country. Sir William distinguished these seveial objects, and then examined the circumstances of each colony, and thu reduction of impeiial expenditure which might he effected in each. In the North American colonies tho military expenditure for imperial purposes, he thought, could be diminished by .£400,000 a-year. In the West India plantations there might bo reductions to the extent of £250,000. From tho Australian colonies nearly all the (roops could be withdrawn. In approaching tho case of the South African colonies, he took occasion to review the whole subject of the Cntlre war, inquiring first, who wag to puy the cost ? Secondly, the causes which had led to tho war? Thirdly, what stops should be taken to protect the mother country against tho expenso of future frontier wars ? Up assigned reasons why the whole huiden of tho prosmit conflict in British. Caftrana could not he thrown upon tho colonists. His inquiry into its causes embraced a comprehensive sutvey of the policy put sued by tho Local Government towards the native tubes, and a criMcism, by no means fnvouiable, of the proceedings of Sir li. Smith, who, with Lord Grey, he allpged, was responsible for tlm war. Unless wu withdiaw our foicos from the Capo, he feared we must be prepared for a charge of XJ700,000X J 700,000 or £iyooo,oooi y 000,000 a year moio than tho value of the colony, which, having recently set this countiy at defiance, . would be more than a match for Sandilli and all his people. Tn conclusion, Sir William estimated the ultimate having; in the uuhtiuy expenditure for tho colonies at £1,000,000, besides £130,000 out of tho civil expenditure. Mr. Uhqvham, in seconding tho motion, inyeighed against the vices of tho Colonial Department, which woiq exaspeiated, ho said, by tlu> Foreign Department, with which it had become intertwined. Jt tho good senso of the country did not put down the Colonial Department, that department, he was convinced, would, in a fow years, put down our colonial empire. Mr. IJawis, though he could not dissent from many of the observations of Sir W. Molosworth, in a speecli replete with details of great importance, could not adopt the policy he inculcated, which he thought would bo deeply injuiions to the country. lie had based his whole argument upon pecuniary considerations ; on that ground alone he advised the voluntary abandonment of our colonial empire — a sacrifice which no country was ever known to make. lie had excepted his military stations ; but it was difficult to say what were exclusively military stations. Mauritius, for example, was a colony of high military importance for the protection of our Indian tiade. Sir W. Molosworth had, ho thought;, over-Stated the military charges for the colonies; the gross annual amount of the charges, civil and military, was £2,338,000, ftom which £661,000, for military and convict stations, must be deducted ; thoro remain £1,697,000, tho whole of which Sir William proposed to stuke out, thereby giving up a large portion of our colonial empire for any stiong power to seizp. There was no connexion, Mr. ILiwes contended, between sellgovernment and imperial military expenditure for the colonies. The interests of the mother country could not be severed from those of her colonies; and if the courso suggested by Sir W. Moleswoith were puisued, whenever the colonies needed assistance it would be furnished, and then at nn increased e\ pense. Mr. Ilavvos entered upon a vindication of the policy adopted by the, Cape Government and of, the conduct of Sir 11. Smith. Reverting to tho question nvolved in the resolutions— whether the colonies should be surrendered for a saving of £1,600,000— he trusted the house would not adopt such ft policy j but to show that he met the motion in a candid spirit, he merely moved the previous question. Mr. Addirley denied that thia was a proposition to abandon all our civil colonies. Sir W. Moleswoith proposed to do with all our colonies no more than Loid Grey had recently proposed to do with Canada ; tho proposition of the former being based upon a broad and sound principle, whilst that of the Government was a half measure. As a question of retrenchment, the motion could not be resisted, unless it was shown that tho expenditure was absolutely necessaty. It was not, however, a simple question of finnncial reform; the countiy could bear the loss of £2,000,000 ; but if tho bin den upon the country paralysed ths colonies and was creative of war, tho voicu of humanity as well as of patriotism condemned it Mr. Ilawos had argued that we must abandon the colonies, or retain the expenditure; whoioa? Mr. Adderley maintained that this expenditure, which corrupted the social state of the colonies, as well as their local government, and created a fictitious political economy, was more injurious to them than to this countiy. Mr. E. IT. STANrcv declined to onter upon the wide* and complicated questions which Sir W. Molosworth had discussed in his npeech, and should confine himself to bis resolutions, wlich, if they meant anything, meant that wo ought to bo relieved from all civil and military expense on account of our colonies 'properly so called.' Thero was some ambiguity, he observed, in Sir William'a definition of ' military stations;' ho had been led into the fallacy of regarding aa military stations only those that were emphatically so. But even in the caso of Canada, in the event of a war with the United States, it was something to have the command of tho most vulnerable part of her frontier. Sir William, ho said, had laid down broadly and distinctly tho principle that the Imperial Parliament was incompetent or unwilling to legislate for the colonies. These, Mr. Stanley remarked, were common-places of colonial discussions. Ihe records of the debates of tho last two years furnished mcontestible evidence that Parhamont was not indifferent to colonial affairs. To transfer, as Sir William Molosworth proposed, all power to tho colonial assemblies, would place it in the hands of bodies that must he, under all circumstances, more or less democratical. lit* did not say this would not bo a desnablc government, but when such a government was sanctioned in tho colonios, the mother country should retain some means of coercion, some remedy for an inevitable evil. Sir W. Moleaworth and Mr. Addeiley had represented the colonists as crushed and degraded ; whereas the mcreaw! and prospeiity of the Australian colonies had been more rapid and marvellous than those of the Western States of America. Upon the whole, ho came to the same conclusion of Mr. Hawes— -that the object of these resolutions was, to a certain extent, the abandonment of our colonies. Mr. Coddi-n said, the speech of Sir W. Moleswoith had not been answered • Mr. Stanley had altogether overlooked tho inteiest which the English ratepayer had in this question. I Jib argument ns to the value of Canada told m favour of the motion : thero could bo no greater disadvantage than to have l/>OO miles of fiontier to delend. Mr. flawes had condemned Sir W. Molesworth i for treating this as a pecuniary question, and yet he had assumed that the only way in winch wo could keep the colonies was by spending tinsel ,600,000. The reduction of the public expenditure afforded the only means of securing a permanent surplus, and that reduction must be effected by curtailing the colonial expenditure. The colonies would be bound moie strongly to us by common descent, identity of language and of laws, than by the small bribe of military and civil expenditure.! Lord John Uusri u considered this n most important question, for it was not a question of letaining an expense of £1,600,000, but whether the tendency of our policy should be for the muinicnanco oi dissolution of ! the empuc. It was not a question of diminishing tho military establishments, but of taking away the whole of tho null tin y foico fiom those colonies not convict or nnlilary stations. Jt tvns impossible to consider this question without endeavouring to tiace the consequences of such a policy. Mr. Cobdon (bought the colonies would remuin attached to us by ideality of lace; but this consideration would not govern all of them — Canada and the Cape, foi example. It wai> also assumed that there would be pcipetuul pence, but a sudden tuny of events might involve us in sudden hostilities with some powei in ICurope, when tho colonies might become the stations of ho»Mli' fleets and pnvateois. It was quito evident that if the jnojioscd plan wete earned into effect tiny country could not maintain its position and le^utjtion in iho wuild, and that ioreign poweis would ho templed to conceit plain of attacking üb. Reductions wejom gradual progress m some of the colonies, but this was .in attempt to 'apply iho aame mle at once to all. These were que-itions to be decided horn \u\\a to time, under the supL'ivi.Mon and condul of tho Mouse, which he Ousted would bo e\cicivd with a view to maintain the mtegiity of tin-, nullity empiie. Upon the motion of Mi. lluuk 1 , iho debate was adjourned. The House, aflur some fuuher business, adjourned.