HOUSE OF LORDS.—March 4.

New Zealander, Volume 7, Issue 546, 9 July 1851, Page 3

HOUSE OF LORDS.— March 4.

Lend Monteacle rose to present a petition from the inhabitants of Vau Diemen's Land, relating, lie said, to ft subject of no common importance. It leferred to the internal condition of that important colony, and stated facts which opened the whole question of the transpoitnt'on of con viols to that island. It was most numerously and respectably signed. In order that their loidships might understand the statements contained in the petition, it was necessary they should bear in mind the fact that some years ago a petition was presented from the same colony very much to the same effect by his noble friend the President of the Council. Redress was then promised, but he was assured that many of the subjects of complaint which at that peiiod existed still remained unredreased. The petitioneis stated that in consequence of the intention expressed by the govern mpnt to adopt a new system of secondary punishment, the colonibts in the years 1840 and 18U encouraged the immigration of many thousands of fiec settlers ; but instead of their expectations that transportation to Van Diemen's Land would cease being realised, an arrangement was subpequently made by which that colony became the sole ?eceptacleof convicts from this country. They therefore complained that the declaration of Her Majesty's Government was not car riod into effect. This, in his (Lord M.'s) judgment was a most material part of the question ; as to the expediency or inexpediency of transporting convicts to Van Diemen's Land, important as that matter certainly was, it was by no means so important as the question whether the government of this country had or had not been guilty of bad frith towards the inhabitants of that colony. The petitioners went on to state that at the opening of the Legislative Council m 1848, Sir William Denison announced that it was the decision of tlio government that transportation to Van Diemen's Land bhould not be resumed at the expiration of the two years which had been fixed by the previous arrangement as the limit for the non-introduction of convicts into tbnt colony. This determination on the pat of the government was in perfect accordance with the wishes of a large portion of the free inhabitants of Van Diemen's Land ; but, said the petitioners, notwithstanding all those pledges, not one of them had been observed. The consequence had been most injurious. The enormous amount of convict population had not only destroyed the best hopes of the colony, but another effect had been that which was anticipated years before, namely, that of driving out of it a large portion of tiie free population and (ree immigrants, and lowering the r.ite of wages as compared with other colonies. The petitioners concluded by stating that they had continually before their eyes the mournful results, both matenal and moral, winch must attend perseverance mthe present system, and that they could no longer place reliance on promisps which to their cost they had found so often disregarded. Such were the complaints of these petitioners ; and in laying them before the House, he felt bound to state that the difficulties of Van Diemen's Land had been augmented as much by the a&tion of Parliament as by any acts cither of the noble eirl (Earl Grey) or of those who had preceded him m office. Parliament not acting upon any definite plan, not considering the consequences which one step would h.ivp upon another, had fiom time to time made such sudden and unexpected alterations of system, that the colonists were always placed at a disadvantage. Indeed, the effects upon the economical and moral condition of the colony had been such as to warrant the loudest compluiiu. The population of Van Diemen's Land was 70,000, of whom 32,173 were frpe, thus showing that considerably moie than one-half were convicts. The House could not but remember the case of the Cape of Good Hope, where an ineffectual attempt wa3 made to introduce a body of convicts sent from this country ; and it was to be feared that the example then set might produce bad results in other cases. Indeed, there was leason to appreheud that the people of Van Diemen's Land might be led to take steps, not following the example of the Cape indeed, but still such steps as would render the future introduction of convicts into any part of that colony utterly impossible. The subject was indeed one of very great importance, and well worthy the most seiious attention of their lordships. (Hear.) Earl Grey said this subject was so fully discussed last year that it would be unnecessary for him to occupy much of the time of their loidships. But as his noble friend, in presenting the petition, had referred to the assertion made last year and then answered by him, that there had been a breach of faith on the part of the government with respect to the colony of Van Diemen's Land, he must again deny, in the most explicit termi, the justice of that allegation. It was most true that an intention existed of putting an end to transportation as it had been previously carried on to Van Diemen's Land. In every despatch laid on the table of that house, and before the legislature of Vtn Diemen's Land for the information of the colonists, it was invariably stated that the intention of the government was not to continue transportation as it had previously existed. He would not deny that it was possible that in writing some of those despatches, and making statements to that house, there might hare been expressions used that, taken by themselves, separate from the statements of which they formed a part, were capable of being represented as announcing an intention of putting an end to tianspoitation altogether; but no man who read those despatches as a whole could fail to perceive that from first to last it had always been the view of the government, that while the greater pait of the sentence of transportation was to be inflicted ia this country, it was always to form part of the system that convicts, alter having undergone a large portion of their punishment here, were afterwards to be removed to the Australian colonies. This view of the case was grounded by him, as well as by his predecessors, on the belief that convicts discharged from prison in this country, where the labour market was well stocked, and where it was difficult for persons not of irreproachable character to get employment, were driven, whether they would or no, back into crime, and that an army of persons (of that kind, such ao existed in France, was an evil of the greatest magnitude ; whereas in the colonies it was found that in the great majority of instances they became once more useful members of society, and last year he had pointed out to their lordships that there were at that time 48,000 persona at work in the different Australian colonies who had been removed from this country as convicts, the vast majority of whom were earning their livelihood by honest industry, and with benefit alike to themielves, the colony, and the j country (hear, hear). It was found that employing i gangs of convicts in our colonies at a great distance from the seat of government, and where it was difficult | to establish a thorough superintendence, was a system liable to abuse, and that, theicfore, that portion of the punishment consisting ot penal labour should be earned on under the immediate control of the government, cither in this country or in the comparatively near stations of Gibraltar and Malta, but that ultimate removal to one of the colonies should take place (hear, hear). Besides, her Majesty's Government were bound to attend to the express opinion of Parliament (hear, hear). He need not remind their lordships thnt this subject was discussed in both Houses of Parliament, and that a stiong opinion was expressed as to the necessity of some modification of the views of the government, and that it was the duty of her Majesty's government, when such a modification was called for, to conform to tlie wishes of parliament (hear, hear). Having so far vindicated himself from the charge of a want of good faith towards the colony, he had little more to add except to concur with the noble loid in what he had said as to the hardship and injustice inflicted upon Van Diemen's Land J>y the course which had been adopted

fr>m 1840 to 184.) (hoar, bear). But for tb.it, neubpr he or Ins predict! -son, \v«ie le&poiihible as much aa Parliament; for the piling of the government were deranged by an addicts to the Crow n adopted by the othi r lljusu of Paihanient, calling upon tbe Ciown lo itiuove iiom tin-, country large numbe-s of convicts (hear, dear). He thought tins measure was adopted by the other House very la-dily and very mconsideiately, and he could not acquit the government of the day ot not having called upon the House of Commons, in adopting- that meabuio, to vote the money that was neci'ssary to make arrangements in Van Diemen's Land for so largo a number of convicts ("bear, bear), lie regretted what then took phco, but all they could now do was to take a lesson from past eirors, and endeavour tocoirrct them for the futuie. He concurred in whrt had been said as to the pi opuety of keeping the convicts as far sppaiated hi possible. He regretted the necessity that existed foi sending so large a number of convicts to Van Diemen's Land, but lie firmly believed that that necessity would not much longer exist ; for, wlnle his noble fnend had spoken of the existence of a s'rong feeling on the part of the colonials of Van Diemen's Land against the introduction of convicts, he did not adveit to tbe pjevalence of different feelings amongst other colonists. In Western Australia there was an unanimous desire on the part of the colonists that we should begin to send convicts theie. In the noithein poition of New South Wales theie was also an unanimous feeling m favour of convictb being sent over, as they had found the services of this class of p-rsons exceedingly useful as stockmen and sbepheuls. lie was. not surpmed that this was the case, as he believed the piospeiity and welfare of tie colony depended on their obtaining a supply of convict labour. He was peisuaded there was no other source fiom which they could get labour of the kind and to the extent | which thr, lequired. The funds by which free cmi- ' grants weio sent out weie limited, and, when they arnved, theiewas no means of enforcing their lesideuco j in those distant and remote parts of the colony where the production of wool was carried on. With regard to ticket-of leave men, however, they possessed the power of requiring them to reside in those districts where they were most wantpd, and that power was exercised. No person with a ticket-of-leave was allowed to go out of the custody of the Government till he had entered into an arrangement to go into the service of some colonist in a distant part of the colony. And what had been the result of this sjstein ? The Governor of New South Wales, after referring to the arrival of a ve&sel with convicts whose piehminary punishment had been cairied on under the improved system used at Portland and Pentonville, and whose conduct on the passage was desciibed as unexceptionable, proceeded to state, that of 1618 convicts sent to New South Wiilei between the Ist of June, 1819, and the 30th of April, 1850, having tickets-of-leave, and most of them baring been a considerable number of months in the colony, there weie only 40 whom it had beeu found necessary to punish for misconduct ; and of those 40 only 10 were for offences of a senous descuption, while of the 10, five were for no more aggravated offences than common larceny. That was a gratifying- result when the number sent out was so large. They had been trained in this country to useful labour, and had proved an acquisition to the colony. The inhabitants of New South Wales, when they calmly viewed the working of the system, would, he was persuaded, see it for their interest that convicts should be sent to parts of that colony. He agreed that convicts ought not to he sent to Sydney, Melbourne, or nn> of tbe more considerable towns, or even moie thickly peopled country districts; but they might be sent with immense advantage to large tiacts which were now becoming covered with sbpep ; and he hoped the legislature of Now South Wales would come to that conclusion. From the accounts of what had pissed in the Legislature of New South Wales, it appeared that in August last there was an eager debate on tbe question whether convicts holding tickets-of-leave should remain in any part of the colony or not. After a lengthened debate, the division was so close that the question being raised in the form of a motion to adjourn the discussion for a month, the numbers were 13 on the one side and 13 on the other. The speaker gave his vote in favour of the adjournment. At the end of the month an addiess to the Crown against receiving convicts was passed. But if such were the feeling- at tho lime, it might be anticipated when the bill of last year came into operation, and the colonies were divided, that the result would be different. The Port Phillip membeis, who wo'ild in future be removed from the Legislature of New South Wales, and sit m thai, of Victoi la, voted as a body against receiving convicts at all, while of the New South Wales representatives a majority weie in favour of the reception of convicts. He (rusted tbe colonists of New South Wales would not be so blind to their own true interests, and the interest of this country, as to refuse receiving convicts. The act of last year contained a clause by which T fur Majesty, on the petition of the northern district of Australia, might be able to separate it into a distinct colony. As he believed every single individual v> ho had property in that part of the colony wished to have the advantage of convict labour again, he had no doubt, if the Legislature of New South Wales refused to open that colony to convict labour, Northern Australia would avail itself of the powers given by the act of last year, and apply for a division of the colony with the view of obtaining the supply of labour they so urgpntly required. With respect to Van Diemen's Land, the latest accounts be had received, while, he was sorry to say, they showed the existence of a strong feeling against the reception of convicts, contained, on the other hand, the clearest evidence that the colony was rising, perhaps slowly, but still beginning- to lise. from the scries of depressions under which it had laboured; that the demand for labour, the revenue, and more especially the land revenue, were increasing ; the commerce was extending ; and that new and important sources of employment were opening. The business of ship-build-ing, in particular, was likely to rise to importance. The natural advantages which the country possessed for the purpose were great, — its magnificent timber, and the favouiable positions in the different harbours for prosecuting that business with success. lie should only add, further, that the improved system of convict discipline was begining to show its effects in the great diminution of convictions before the police courts, and the committals for drunkenness had fallen off in a manner truly surpusing. The petition was ordered to lie on the table ; and their lordships adjourned at ten minutes past six o'clock.