HOUSE OF LORDS.—February 4. ABSTRACT OF THE DEBALE ON THE ADDRESS.

New Zealander, Volume 7, Issue 511, 2 July 1851, Page 3

HOUSE OF LORDS.—February 4. A BSTRACT OF THE DEBALE ON THE ADDRESS.

The House resumed nt five o'clock; the bench of bishops wa-. "quite crowded," and severnl ladies were present in the galleries reseived for ihp peeresses. 1 he Earl ot Elfingham, in moving the Addioss, contended rhat the giect body of the people wore in possession of the necessaries and even of the comforts of hfp to an extont which had seldom, if ever, been reached, lie was afraid, however, that " considei able distress existud amongst tlio owners, and especially amongst the farmei s, the occupiers of land "—("" — (" Hear,' from the Protectionist benches). Tlio recent act of the Pope was " an unexampled aggression on the independence of the counliy," and as it would not be submitted to by any Roman Catholic country, a great and independent nation like England ought not to bear with it an hour. Some measure must betaken by Parliament, and he hoped that it would be such a& would do justice to the indignation of the country, " as would bo effectual to its own purpose, and as> would not depuve any of our Roman Catholic countiymen of their just lights and privileges." (Hoar.) Loid Cremorne seconded the address in a speech similar m sentiment to that of the previous speaker. Retiring to Ireland, he remarked that, "So highly did he appreciate the Encumbeied Estates Act, that if, among the legal refoims now contemplated by the Government, it should lie intended to give a similar measure to England"— (loud cries of " No, no," from the Opposition benches.') Lord Stanley waived any opposition to the address, on the ground that that was the most respectful course, unless the speech from tin 1 Throne contained punciples or language which it was impossible to overlook. Taking tlio vauoiid paiagraphs of the speech one by one, the noble loid proceeded to say that thD Foreign Office appeared to have been '' less actively employed than usual," though the termination of the dissentions on the continent was rather to be attributed " to the fnm and dignified attitude which had been assumed by the Emperor of Austria, and also to the foicible representations, backed by the most powerful arguments, urged by the Emperor of Russia." (Hear.) Though he looked with some f.unt hope to the execution of the treaties entered into by Brazil for the suppression of the slave tiade, this country could apply a more powerful engine than any treaties, by the abrogation of the commercial regulations which encouraged that abominable traffic. It was satisfactory, too, to find that the 'ruin of those connected with J.md, whether as owners or occupicis, was tins year heated with some little respect, and that the reasonable natuic of their complaints was acknowledged by the Government ; but his satisfaction would have been more complete if Her Majosty had infouned them that the sufferings of the loyal agricultural interest were about to be alleviated by legislative enactments. There was a large remission of taxation ; would they relieve those inteiests which, according to the statement of tiie Government, were enjoying unparalleled prosppiity, or thai intere.>t which, by the admission of the Government, was suffering under the mostseiious distress — (hrnr, and cheers) ? The Encumbered Estates Act might have been useful to a certain class, but it had substituted a new class of propiietors for those who, with their ancestors, had owned the land for centuries. After an elaborate profession of protectionist faith, the noble lord touched upon the hierarchy question. An insolent agression had been made upon the supremacy of the Crown of England. It was impossible to chalactprise that aggression in stionger terms than those used by the Premier m his celebiated letter, and (he water " could hardly have taken such a step without having dclibpiately calculated the cost and eounlpd the magnitude of the struggle." If it meant anything, it meant tins: "I will vindicate the supremacy of the Ciown ; 1 will vindicate the rights of the bishops and clergy ; I will vindicate the undivided sway of Her Majesty and of Parliament over the domestic concerns of this country; and I will not permit any foreign power to mtei fere with the ndministiation of this realm, and with the authority of the Queen and of Pailiament." He (Lord Stanley) would not consent to deprive his Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen of one jot or tittle of those civil lights which were confeired upon them by the Act of 1829. lie knew not what might be the measure which their lordships would be invited to consider, but, whatoxer it might bo, he nhould approach its consideration with the hope of finding in it the realisation of those eypectations which the Prime Minister had raised, — with the hope of finding that whilst the full exercise of the civil and religious rights of the Roman Catholics might be recognised, there would still be a real and substantial vindication of the supiemecy of the Crown,— and, not in words merely, but in lact, a practical repudiation of foieign interference by a prelate whose infallibility they were told had been deceived by a false representation of the state of affairs in Ireland. Unless this was done, they had better not legislate on the subject at all. The Duke of Richmond wanted to know what was to become of the tenant-farmers of England whilst they were waiting for the return of the promised prosperity? They werp, he was happy to say, at the present moment, loyal, but he declared to Heaven be should wonder if they long remained so. lie highly approved of Lord J. Russell's letter, and he hoped that they would pass practical measures both to restrain the Papal aggression and to relieve the agiiculturists. '' Jle had npent a great deal of money m improvements, but he would never spend another Bhilhng unless protection were lestored, for he was not one who liked sending good money after bad." Loitf Camoys said that he was a Roman Catholic, and his forefathers had been for centuries, but at the same time he was an Englishman, and the rights and liberties of England were as dear to him as to any of their Lordships. He admitted the spiritual eupremacy of the Queen over the Established Church to the fullest extent that the most orthodox member of that Church could desire, and he acknowledged the supremacy of j the Pope orer the Roman Catholic population of this country in npiritual matters ; but as to any other asbumption of power over this country on the part of the Pope, or any undue exercise of his spiritual power over its population, against any such assumption ho felt it to be his duty to protest. The policy of the late hierarchical introductions was most erroneous^ It was fouuded on the most entire ignorance of the religious condition ef the people of this country. He maintained, however, that the law was not violated until the titles of the dignitaries of the Church of England were assumed. He had felt insulted by Lord John Russel's letter, hut had looked upon it as the letter of an individual, and not of a Prime Minister. Cardinal Wiseman ought to have shown the papal letters to Lord John before their publication, and it was natural that the latter should feel annoyed. The Marquis of Lansdowne expressed his admiration of the speech of Lord Camoys, and applied himself to the strictures of Loid Stanley. As to the question of free trade " ho should be quite prepared to meet his noble friends opposite, whenever tbuy should think fit to bring that question deliberately forward." God forbid that they should think of going back to the practical oppression to which the Roman Catholics had been subjected in this country, but no person could persuade him tbat nothing more than spiritual dominion over Roman Catholics was intended to be claimed. lie had no doubt that the proposed measure on the subject would be discussed with all due deliberation by' the House. After some observations from Lord Roden, who expressed his disappointment that the speech had not contained stronger expressions respecting the Protestant religion, the add) ess was agreed to unanimously.

Thursday, FtunuAny 6. Sctrral petitions against the Papal Aggression were presented by the Bishops of Manchester and Oxford, aivd the Marquis of Landsdowne. Soveial petitions were also presented fiom tho colonists of the Cape of Good Hope. LORD MINIO'S MISSION TO ROME. In reply to Earl Fifzwilliam, the Earl of Minto denied that he had made himself a party to the late proceedings of the Pope :—: — " No communication whatover upon the subject of this aggression was ever made or even hinted to me ; and I really am entirely at a loss to guess on what grounds or authority the report on this subject, which

1 certainly hiwidwith consiuVi.iblo Mupuse, lus nn->en. My LorcK, cluiing the period of in} incidence in Homi', in the course of very frequent airl linmiaie communications with tl)o Topp find the Caidinal Secretary of State, no allusion was at any time made to any design of oinanizitt" a Roman Catholic lii aiarchy in tin's country, or'of any jnoasuro such as that of winch wo have lately head so much. I neither leccived any communicatioa upon it fiom these lllustnous individual, noi did it ever foim tlie subject of any conveisation, pubic or privato, of any other individual during my stay. And i assure your lordships that no one of youi loidships could have been moie completely burpnsed at tho arnvnl of the Pap.il document in this country than I was. fl[y lords, 1 trust that thi« assurance will bu satisfac - toij to your loidships." (Hear.)