GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Monday, August 20, 1849.

New Zealander, Volume 5, Issue 345, 23 August 1849, Page 2

GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Monday, August 20, 1849.

Present :-— The Governor in«Chicf, the Coloninl Secretary, the Atlorney-General, the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. Merrini'in, Mr Barstow, Lieut.-Colone.l Hulme. Majnr Matson, and Mr. Kempthorne. Mr. Merrimtn rose to present a memorial from 177 inhabitants of the distiict, and on moving for it to be road, stated that he done so without binding himself to support every expression and faentiment contained in it. It had been but a short time in bis hands, and he had not given it his consideration, Mr. Barstov seconded the proposition. The Governor said the question was, would the Council have a memorial read to them without first being informed of the purport of it. Mr. Kemptborne considered ihat the memorial should be referred to a sub-committee. Mr. Meirimnn should wish to know on what grounds the last suggestion was made ; if the memorialists were worthy of beine; heard at nil, surely it was the Council to whom they addressed themselves that ihould hear them. Why turn them over to a subcommittee ? He believed the memorial embodied no particular prayer, but iti purport vras to draw the attention of the Council to the subject of the natives' lands, in order that the Government might be requested to allow the aborigines to dispose of them to Europeans. Petitnn read, received, and ordered to be prln'ed. Mr. Meriimsui also presented the following petition, which, together with one from Mrs Forbes, of Oneunga, wab read, received, and ordered to be printed. To His Excellency Sir Georok Grky, X.C 8., Governor in Chief of N.-w Zealand, and the Honorable the Members of the General Legislative Council of New Zealand, in Council assembled. The Memorial of the undersigned Purchasers of Land under Governor Fitz Hoy's Proclamation of 10th October, 1844, Shewetl-,— That your memorialists, in pursuance of the Proclamation of Governor Fitz Roy of the 10th October, 1844, became purclmseis of land from the natives under certain pre-emption certificate! issued by Governor Fitz ltoy That al bucli purchases were made openly and fairly, and, as your memorialists believe, •' in stric pursuance of, and within the terms of the said ProclHination.'' That your memorialists, having completed such purchases as aforesaid, made the necessary preparations for the mil it a 1 ion and occupation of the said land, hiving the fullest confidence in the vood faith and honour of the representative of the British Crown, and never suspecting that the nets of one Governor could be open to legal objections b<i his successor, the effect of which has been, in thin instance, in n great measure to stay the induetiinl operatons of your memorialists, and to disarrange all their plans. That the clfiims of your memoiialists to the lands no purchased have now been unsettled for a considerable period of time, entailing upon your memorialists great pecuniary loss,— keeping their minds in a state of great uncertainty, and paralyzing their efforts to cultivate the toil. That your memorialists affirm with great respect that such a state of things has retarded agricultuial operations, created discontent in the minds of the community, and been destructive of the generul prosperity of the Colony. In order, therefore, tliaf » question of to much importance to the community ns the complete adjustment of all unsettled claims to land in this colony may be effected upon some liberal basis, Your memorialists pray that your Excellency and the Honorable the Legislative Council will be pleased to take the matter into your comideration, and adopt such measures for the final setikment of the question as to your Excellency and the Honorable the Legislative Council may seem meet. And your memorialists, as in duty bound, will ever pray.

Crown Titles Bill. On tlie motion of the Attorney-General the Council went into committee on this Bill. On the title being read, Mr. Merriman moved that it should be amended by substitu ing the words " Colony of New Zealand" for " Province of New Ulster." He believed, that unless the operation of the Bill should be thus extended, the Council would leave itself open to the charge of partial legislation ; the only argument of any weight that could be urged against his pioposal, was the absence of gentlemen to represent the Southern Province. He regretted that the other Province wai not represented injihe Council,*' ut thought that Mas one reason why their interests should be propeily attended to in their absence. He could see by the returns that many of the claims had reference to that portion of the Colony, and he thought that members would scarcely be doing their duty, were they not to plead the cause of those colonists who had no representative* in the Council. Mr. Barsiow thought that there were many good nnd sound reasons for extending the Bill to the other Province. His Excellency had referred to an Act of Parliament, by which the Inndt of that Province were vested in the New Zealand Company ; now be thought that one good reason was afforded, by this very fact, why grants that had been isiued by the Crown previous to the passing of that Act, should be, removed from any shadow of a doubt, and declared valfd, by thii bill. Whatever was now about to be dontt in legislating on this long vexed question should be as comprehensive and complete as possible, that no pretext whatever might be left for opening it up again in future. The Attorney-General expressed his surprise at the amendment proposed by the leured member opposite. If he himself winded to prevent the Bill then before the Council from ever becoming the law of the land, the course he would punue, to effect that object, would be to extend its operations to the Southern Province It would enable the various powerful parties at home, interested in that Province, to make out to strong a case upainst the course of proceeding tug ge&ted Ly the learned member, as to render the ultimate disallowance of the Bill absolutely certain. It would enHble them to show to the Colonial Minister that a Council sitting at Auckland, without a tingle member repiesen iig the Province of New Munster, without any knowledge of the facts — suddenly summoned— had undertaken to legislate tor that Province on a question

of gicat importance, and affecting conflicting interests —not only in the absence of every member from the South— but actually when the people of the South were not even aware that the General Legislature had been summoned for diopatch of busmen, and that they, the Council, were at tin's moment engaged in the business of legislating. When to this be added that the amendment proposed would entail upon the Council the responsibility of disposing of land which had been vested in the New Zealand Company by Act of Parliament, the objection to such an amendment appeared to him to bo conclusive. The Governor said, that in addition to the reasons al rady given against what wai now proposed, there was one argument of overwhelming weight, The Council had no knowledge of the state of Crown Ti lea at the South— nor was the Government in possession of sufficient information to guide them hovr to act, for the great miss of the Coummsionors' Reports were at Wellington. But there were peculiar circumstances connected with lilies to land down there that would render it extremely difficult for the Council to interfere. He would mention one case where much difficulties would piescnt i?elf. A body of claimants had sent a ■ c utation to Sir George Gippi, at Sydney while he was Governor of New Zealand, concerning their tldims to land An interview was obtained, audf their ciue was stated, when a guarantee was given that their claim should be respected. Subsequently on Captain Hobson visiting Wellington, shortly after bis arrival the matter was opened up to him, and that Governor recognized it and caused his allowance of it to be published at Wellington, so that the parties looked upon the recognition as jin-t as good as if a Crown grant had been made to them. The land they claimed Was situate in the town of Wellington ; and relying on what had been done by two Governors in reUtiori to their claim, they embarked capital to the amount of mauy thousand pounds in buildings on the property. Yet after all, a Crown Grant was subsequently issued to another person, and the matter hns since been tried in the couns of the country, and he believed wai not finally settled jet. Now how would the Council proceed under such circumstances. His own advice was not to attempt any change in the title, because he believed that the alteration proposed would have the. effect ot utterly and effectually destroying the measure. Aftei several other remarks from the Colonial Seorel tary, the Attorney-General, and Mr. Barstow, 'the Governor enquired whether it was the intention of honourable members to press thu amendment. Mr. Mernman said, that as the sense of the Council numerically, was agaiiut him, he thought that it would be useless to divide, and withdrew his amendment, and the Title was allowed to stand as printed. The other clauses were considered,*several amendments made, and two hew important clauses introduced, one by the Governor and the other by Mr Baritow, which were taken charge of by the AttorneyGcnerali to be drafted into the Bill. The last cluuse, which would postpone the commet cement^ of the operation of the Ordinance until it received ihe Royal Assent, was allowed to stand over until the Governor would see iti what shape the Bill should come out of Committee. Committee adjourned

Approximation Bill. On the motion of the Colonial Treaiurer, Council icsumed in committee on this Bill. Mr. Alcrriman, as the Road Department came on fint for cons deration, moved an adjournment until the leiuins he had moved for should be placed on the table. And that in the absence of the honourable member (Mr. Kempthorne, who had just left the Council) the items of .Schools could hardly be proceeded with, as lie bad evinced a desire to inteiest himself ira (hat item. Ti-eUovcrno- said that the returns were in course of preparation, but the estimates might Ug 4 piocsedcd w tii. Coi lidding the number and the nature ol the returns thai iihd been called for «jnce the Council met, the woniL r should be how they were prepared within the time It look n0 stuail degree of exertion to produce them sa promptly. j\lr. Bur Mow wus also opposed to prrcecding further with the Estimates until tho return relative to Horses, that he had moved tor, was on the table. The Governor said that the return mentioned ihould aUo be produced, although he could hardly see for what purpose it wus wanted. '1 he funds from which the horbcs had been purchased were not fund* belonging to the colony ; and strictly speaking, the Council had no right to interfere with the control of them. A, large amount of money had been placed at his disposal" by i'arliitineiit for special purposes in the Colony, and he alone was responsible for the management of it. The Colony had paid no part of the money expended in the purchase of the hones alluded to ; they were bought out of British funds for the use of the road department; and when it was thought expedient to reduce that establishment, two pair of hones and dray* w( re handed over to the public schools established in the colony, rather than they should be sold for a trifling' c insidei atton. They had been merely transferred from one important public service to another. Mr. Merriman fcaid that, aa lie had been 'charged with rashness on a former occasion when making tooae remarks on the road department, he thought it right that he should have the returns in his hand before he would offer any further obiervatious on the wo-k that bad been performed by that department. The Governor thought that, considering the liberality of the Home Government in placing at the disposal of the Governor ot this Colony, simply at his instigation and by his request, such large sums of money to enable him to undertake an enterprise of such magnitude and importance, it wai a want of generosity on the part of members to lose sight of the greatness 6f that enterprise, aud stoop to the review of mere petty details. He thought that the members of that Council woul pay but very little respect to -their own dignity by descending from the position which they should main* tain in relation to matters of such high importance, to attack the paltry details of the working of it, or by allowing themselves to be made parties to such a scheme. However, the returns which had been called for should be duly pub ished, Mr. iVierrinian said that he thought it was his privilege, as a member of that Council, to express hit opinions upon the working of a department of the public service, the expenses of which, so far from being pe.ty or paltry, ran over nearly as large a sum as the wholrt revtnue of the Province. And although the fundi were provided by Parliament, yet thin conntry was debited with them ; and therefore he conceived it was due to ctery member of that Council to' be permitted to express themselves freely on the manner in which they believed those funds were expended. The Governor said that the funds granted for Neir Zealand were not charged against the colony by Great Britain. The Committee then adjourned until Tuesdsy. Se.eral notices of motion were then given, and the Council adjourned until iwo o'clock on Tuesday.

Tuesday, August 21. Present : — The Governor and eight Members ; absent, Hih Excellency General Pitt and Major Matson. The Colonial Chaplain wai in attendance and read piayen. Minutes of last meeting were read and confirmed.

AftROPRUTION BilA. On the motion of the Colonial Treaiurqr, Council returned in Committee on this bill. The Governor laid on the table the returns relative to roadi. Moved by Meisrs. Merriman and Ban tovr. On thesum of £1706 6s being propoied for the Road Department) Mr, Baratow said that, although His Excellency, at Ihe last sitting of Council, had observed that a want of generosity would be shewn by any retnaik bearing too stringently on the road expenditure, «UU ho could not avoid thinking that pasiinir oter the matter in silence would be both a culpable neglect of his duty, and a violation of that solemn <v.uh which he took when first he became a member of that Council. His Excellency had put it to the Council that, when n grant of money from the British Treasury was in question, not only that members had no right to control the expenditure, but that it would be imlccoroui to comment upon it. Had the benefits alleged to have ariien from this money really existed, had the settlers profited, had the natives lenrned to practice industrywere the roads more paiiable than heretofore, he for one would have acquiesced, with a thankful silence, in the propriety of the Council not refeiring to the matter. But when he taw settlers injured by the excessive hire paid to the natives as the wages of idleness ; when, to every endeavour to procure native labour, the invariable answer was— " No, we prefer the Queen's work — plenty of money, and very little work ;" when he had seen those natives, instead of profiting by thdt extravagance and laying up for the future, only squandering in immorality and dissipation the fruits of their nidcallcd labour; when, on all hands, he had heard the road parties characterised as the best schools (or vice ; and when he found even after the expenditure oi .£22,000,1 the mads to OnehUnga and the Tatnaki not passable for loaded drays,— and that the carters themselves have to make tlie streets even of the capital of the colony passable— -how could he repress the indignation that he felt at such a state of things. Again, ■when he had icen a party obliterating on one day what the same party had constructed on the previous tlay ; when one superintendent diligently effaced all sign of the work of his predecessor ; when in one place vast expense is incurred to remove the clay and form a surface of stone— in another, atiil greater pains taken to remove the htone which naturally lay upon the surface, in order to constrict the road of clay ; when he had seen every tomfoolery that human wit could devise, every absurdity that ingenuity could render practical perpetrated under the pretext of >oadmaking, how could he be expected to sit silent? Further, when, instead of adopting Euclid's definition of a straight line as being the shortest distance hetwecn two points, imagination had been racked to find out what curve or ■spiral could be devised to lengthen to its utmost the distance between two places; when, after great outlay upon a line of road, it hod hern abandoned for no other reason, that he knew of, save that it would, when finished, have been useful ; when those and many other such acts had been observed by him, he thought them bad enough, but the worst of all was to come— for he had even heard such acts defended in that Council. Well, indeed, might it be wished to throw a shield over this worse than Augean •table, and hide from scrutiny the worse than wane of that money which, in being granted for the use, was also intended for the benefit, of New Zealand. There was a story recorded of a King of Spain, who, on (iading that immense sums of money were expended in the construction of a cattle at Calloa, wrote to enquire of his Viceroy whether the building was being erected of silver. It would be well for u% as the Council we»e not permitted to scrutinise this expenditure, that our rulers at home would take ho njuch interest in the colony as to endeuvour to find out what had become of th<> money they had so munificently supplied. To shew that he bad not exaggerated in waking the sate incuts he had just put forth, he would remark that on askig a man — who, from adai'y labourer, had wrought his way to independence with Ins spide — his opinion on the way in which the roads were being made, his answer was, " If I had the making of a mile at the price it costs the Government, I would never do another hands- turn." And another to whom he had put the question how much per chain should the eartluwork cost, replied, " he would gladly have done it at a pound a chain, barring the cuttings." He might tell the Council that these were facts, not fictions. In conversing; about the roads, on one occasion, with a clergyman who has lesided Jmaoy years in the colony, that gen lemun nanated the following: — He was walking one day along the road and met a native from hit own place, and on asking him whether he was working on the roads, he aniwered, " No." " What are you doing , then," was the enquiry. " Living with tie road party," he replied. «• How ; as a lnend?" "Not quite; I stay with them to look out for the overseer, and give them warning when he approaches, so si they may all be at work " The Governor.— To which of the parties wns the Native attached? Wai the honourable gentleman fare that his statement was correct 1 Mr. Baritow could only say that his informant was a gentleman in every way worthy of credit— the Rev. Mr. Burrows. The Governor had alluded fo the accuracy of the Nntire's statement Was the honourable member sure that the native had told the timh? If so, it was a pity that a charge had not been preferred at the time. Mr. Baritow had no doubt but that the Native could he produced; at any rate he would make inquiry. But there was another anomoly that struck himself a» he pawed along two or three times a week by parties of natives nominally at work, and that was. that he hardly ever noticed the men were provided with tools suitable for their labour. He had alio observed that large cuttings had been made and embankments constructed where a detour of a few yards would have given au evenly inclined road ; and those very cuttings, made at the cost of hundreds, were now threatening to fall and bury the road for the want of a single day's abonr. Besides, roads are made to narrow where the traffic is comiderable, that two teams cannot pacs Without difficulty ; but where little used they were wide enough for three. Were these not instance! enough of the gross want of judgment displayed in the socalled road making ; had he not showed very plainly the evili arising to the settlers from this ill-placed profusion, and to the moral injury acciuing to the natives from the want of proper supervision — it would be easy to enumerate case* by the score ; but having occupied the Council iq long, he would conclude by itating, that if his assertions were not credited, he was ready to prove, not only one, but all of them. He would no ir propose the only amendment that he intended to move on the estimate for the road department, which was, that the salaries of overseers should be raised from four to five shillings a day, and that the daily pay to the natives should be one shilling and rations for mx days in the week. Mr. Merriman rose to support the honourable mem. ber who had juit. sat down, and as he had addressed himself more particularly to the principles upon which the road department was conducted, he (Mr. Merriinan) would refer to a few of the details, in order to show itill more fully the piepoiteroui manner in which

this department was conducted. Ke then referred to suml expended on horses. One horse had coit jE7S, and was afterwards sold as uniound at a great reduction; another was sold for fifty-two shillings, and having been afterwards judiciously treated by the person who bought it of the Government, was resold the other day for M2b. He then directed the attention of the Council to the cost of making Princes Street. The work performed in chat street was about ci^lit «ncl a hult chains, the cubt of which was jk J (j2'2, being at the rate of about £b'ooo a mile. But that amount did not take in the wooden curb, the laying oi which alone cost .£B5 18b. 10d., exclusive ot the cost of timber or the cat ting of it. It wa§ hardly reasonable to say tli.it such lavish out by was a fair expenditure of the public money. And although the money was granted by Great Britain, yet it was booked and stands against New Zealand as granted for purp.ues of benefit to tho colony, »»nd lor judicious outlay ; he thcretoie thought that n was cleaily Jwithin the province of the members of the legislature to comment upon the mode in which the money was expended, especially when they vvero conscious that the colony might have derived a greater amount of benefit from it, and in voting sums, for the future, it behoved them to look to the past. II* 1 did not wish to see the sum to be set unari for tnis department curtailed j he would be very glad to iee quadruple the amount appropriated to it; whit be desired was that the future management should not be as the former, but that whutevci amount was to be expended should be judi(iou-ly iindwi.e'y laid out, that the greatest amount of efficient s-rvice that was possible should be obtained for it,— that instead ot roads being made in detached patches, good continuous lines of serviceable roads should be constructed. The lion, member referred to the Epsom Road, which be said was good ai far as the Half-way House, but beyond that it was totally impalpable, and conducted by suggesting that the superintendent's salary should be allowed to iemaiu at ,£2OO, but that a horse and forage for him should not be allowed to that officer in addition to his salary. The Colonial Secretary was sorry to hear such a flow of virtuous indignation preceding from honourable members concurniog a department, on which, if they were fully aware oi the difficulties of it, they would be less disposed to find fault. .Every superintendent of roads that had held office since he came into the colony had been succassively found fault with — and wheie that was constantly the c<ue there must be ■omc lung intrinsically wrong. From the knowledge that he had of the road department, and his position gave him better opportunities than many of the other members had of becoming acquainted with the difficulties that presented themselves, be could say that the department had many impediments to !>urmount in carrying on its operations. Tlie greatest difficulty was experienced in getting labourers, and it must be remembered that the species of work to be performed was altogether new to the native labourcis who bad been engaged upon it. Besides, material was only to be had in detached places and the conveyance of it lo the portions ol work in pi ogress rendered it necessury to be^m the system i" such a way as now made it appeir in patches, but a< the whole woik went on and approached towards its cnt-rety, the service would be better appreciated. As fur «» he had observed, there had been always u great anxiety on ths part of those entrusted wi h the management of tins department to peiform the woik in the most advunttgeom maniur. Mr. Kunpihoine felt compelled tosayih.it on his return, niter an ahssure fiona the colony of nearly two years, he w.is very much struck with the great improvement of the ro-ids. The expensed, no doubt, had been veiy large; but whoever knew wh.Kitwas to employ native fjbour must bo awue that, un'e&s they were well looked after, they are th : dearest class that could he employed, lie was sure that much difficulty was cnroii'itered in setting forw.it d such a great acheme anil undfrt'iUiiis;, but trusted that the experience that hid been gamed would enable those who bad the mail igetn< ut to e fleet considerable saving in the future. The Council, in viewing the undertaking, could hardly I in fairn ss confine themselves to a glance at what h<td been done by way of a beginning, but should rather lookfoiwdul to a longer time for an average result. He wus sony to be.ir suob strong expressions used by honoiable members, but still he would be happy to see their suggestions curried out. The Surveyor-General understood the question before the Council to be, whethei a ceituin sum placed upon the Estimates for public roadi should be voted. ! He believed that no argument had been urged against | the item beinj granted ; but he was sorry to hear so much said in condemnation of the manner in which a department of the public service had been conducted, when he knew so well thnt much that bad been found fuult with arose from the peculiar disadvantages against which that department had to contend. He was well aware that the superintendent of works wag most anxious to do his duty ; instead of the vague chirges that had been made against officers, it would have been better if honourable members had pointed out some specific cause of dereliction of duty. Notwithstanding the difficulty of road making in this country, owing to many circumiUnces, such as the nature of the subsoil, peculiar toughness of the metal rendering it hard to break, the charae'er of the labour only to be procured, and other features, yet there hud been ten and a lulf milei of road from Auckland completed, and two and a half milts were in progress. A. great deal of the expense referred to had been incurred in setting the work on foot, such as in the purchase of horses, drayi, tools, &rj., that would not be required to be laid out again. With respect to the detached manner in which some of the work bad been performed, he might say that it was necessary to carry it on so, owing to the situation of (he volcanic hills from which material must be procured. But then, as the work proceeds, this patchwork will be filled up and united, and the roadi will appear to better advantago. When members looked back over two years, an I remembered the state of the country ro,ids at that time, and compared them with the present, even in their imperfection, and take into consideration, also, the cost of road making here, which at the very least is twice as much as at homo,, they ought to oc convinced that I there was less orr> iion to murmur than what they ■kerned to imagine.' The Colonial Secrotary would suggest that labouring men should be employed m future as oveneers— men who would work along with the natives themselves. This would have a very good effect ; the natives would be stimulated to exertion by the example of a working overseer, rather than by that of one, having more the appearance ol a nvister, walking about with his h<inds idle in his pockets, while they weie working Tins was the only improvement that suggested itself to him. He had consulted men of candour, and competent to give an opinion on the subject, and they had agreed Unit the work could not have been pertormed for lean under all the circumstances. The Governor ros*. and said that perhaps the Coun- ' cil might think, as he did himself, that it was due to him to make some renmrkn upon the subject. And first he would any that be lelt no anxiety lo stop tho

discussion of this question ; what he had laid on a former day, wa« not with that intent, but he had stated specifically that if the hon. gentlemen wished to show a spirit of generosity, they would not attempt to ruin an enterprise of great importance by entering into details of insignificant importance And he still thought that it was beneath the dignity of that Council for its members to attack the minor workings of a great scheme, inconsuleintc of tlie damage they might do to its utility ; neither was it quite in keeping With Uie dignity of members to make their attacks in ouch a way as thry knpw would not We agreeable to the feeling* of one who had taken *>o de«p «n interest in a scheme of such meat importance to the wellare of this Colony, lie found hunsult placed in a position of delicacy by the manner in which this subject hud been treated, fo- it would he remembered that the funds which ha<l been discussed weic such as hud been placed at his disposal by L'arliiiment, t \m\ he alone was responsible for •horn. It could not but be remarked that the Council, in voting away their own revenue, had departed from his estimate in their desiie for greater liberality than what he hud shown ; but in approaching the items to be, supplied from Hritish funds the greatest anxiety wan shewn to guard them. Now, what could he gathered Irom this but that while be wus exercising a watchful care ovet the local revenue, lib wan spending what h<id been committed to liis Bole enre in the most lavUh way imaginable. He might have saved honorable members the necessity of using so many violent expressions, and himself the unpleasantness of listening to them, if lie had only taken the suggestion of his honorable fiiend, the Colonial Treasurer, who, he supposed, from longer official experience than his own, had certainly adv'ml a method whereby he would haVegot over ting very disagreeable dilemma. His honorable friend had recommended that the miscellaneous expenditure shou'd be reduced so that larger salaries might be paid to officers. (Laughter.) Now if he (the Governor) had cut off the item for roads and turned it over to the increase of .salaries, he might have shared in the triumph and applause th.it would have no doubt been fziven to Ins honoinhle friend who had proposed it. Hut whatever effect might he pro. duced here, or whatever impiession would h« made elsewhere by the course that had been taken by members, th're was this antufaction left to him, | that ha attached very little weight to the opinions that had been expressed in depreca>ion of the road department If he wanted an opinion on a point of law, and applied to a lawyer, but afterwards found that lie had given an erroneous opinion, thcie would be cause tor astonishment ; but if he wished for un opinion on the construction of roads, and on going to a lawyer got a wrons opinion on the subject, he should not be at all surprised the result. Now he (the Governor) had got the very best education in this branch of know. lcdt;c, (whatever use he Iml made of it was another thing), and from his own knowledge of the subject, lie could state his opinion to be tint the woik had been originated and cairied out so far upon the beat principles ; and the opinions of engineers of the greatest ability went to the same effect. As to the statement made by the Inborn cr referred to, it was on this question ot very little weight. If it was a question of ploughing, or other such work, he would not wish to look for a be ter opinion than one from a labouring man, but he held that such a class of men were not competent to come to right conclusions upon the principles of constituting roads. As rcgaids the cuse quotid about the horse, bo thought that honomnble members should not advert to such tnJles. and make assertions upon meic nrnour^. Mr. Meiriman. — Your l^ccllencv, I have asserted nothing but what I know to he a hiet. The Go/ernor : At any rn'c ho looked upon the matter as one of too ti illmg importance, to be brought forwaid in the dineussion of the question before the Council. If the horse was sold, he was Bold as unservicable in aceoi dance with the rules of the public service, and if he was bought by a faincr, who, by bestowing care on him since and recruiting his strength, had renlibed a lnrgcr sum than he had paid for him, it was surely not the province of that Council to take notice of it. As to several expressions made use of by member! in their reinnks, such as ••tomfoolery," he thought that they were not calculated to benefit the public service. Such language did not become the dignity of the Council ; but although he felt hurt to hear such expressions used, yet he was glad in one sense, for the language adopted would be n complete refutation of the whole of the charges preferred. He had often publicly stated the great objects he had in view in undertaking the enterprise which wns now a' tempted to be thwarted. He found the natives in a Stale of rebellion, but after some time peace was restored, and he endeavoured to turn their attention to industrial pursuit*, ami to Ihe me of agricultural implement*. The constructing of roads would be at once a benefit to the settlers, and afforded an opportunity of usefully employing the natives. The proposal was approved of at home, and funds readily supplied to carry it out. He could foresee that the land fund, for the purposes of road-making, was completely locked up— for the marketable land? in and about Auckland had been granted away. Roads were necessary to make these lands available to the holders, and the undei taking was commenced, and native labour brought to the v«ry doors of the settlers The natives themselves are brought from a distance into contact with the loboui market, and, by degrees, their services will gradually become of much avail to the agricultural population. Notwithstanding that this scheme had been matter of deep thought to him, how to make it beat serve the interests of both races, yet a great deal of odium had been heaped upon him one time or another by reason of it. It had occurred to him whether it was not due to himself, in order to save him from these persecutions, and also to the people of Great Britain wlio had s>> liberally grunted the money, for to abandon the undertaking. It was in his power to abandon it ; but, conscious of his own integrity in tbc> matter, he li>id again thought that those persecutions were hii only merit — and he felt determined not to bo deterred by any harsh expressions that, might be levelled at him from endeavouiing, m far as in him lay, to furninh this Province with roads that would be requisite for it. He would object to the reduction of the native pay proposed. After a fevr obtcivations in reply from Messrs. Baritow and Menimnn, the motion with respect to the natives pay was withdrawn, and the advance to overseers agreed to. With this addition, the item stood ai printed. The lum of i? 1753 ss. was agreed to for schools. The Governor proposed the sum of i!2,()00, with interest, as compensation claimed for lofeses sustained by Mr. J. S. Polaek at Koromreka, during the sack, ing of that town by rebel natives in 1845. This claim hud been recommended lor tiie consideration of the Council by Lord Grey, owing to Mr. PolnclA statement, in a letter to the C loni.il Office, that his premises hud been destroyed while occupied by the Queen's troops. Colonel Hulmc said that he was Commander of the Forces in New Zealand at the time, and, as it appeared that an impte<tion had been made on the mind ot the Secretary of State (avow abl<* totuis c.aim by the state.

mrnt thut the troops were ia occupation of the premises at the time they were destroyed, he thought ir right to ttate to the Council that be believed that statement to be wrong — the anertion had also bren refuted by Mr. Beckham. There was not a grain of gunpowder belonging to either the army or navy on the premiies at the time— if any was there at all it mu«t have belonged to the volunteers. He could see nojust dfiim for compensation under the circumstances set foith in thf Memorial. The Colonial Smetaty thought that when the colony was in a position to compensUe tin* sulT^n'M for their losi<»« at Koromrrka, on thut nnforlunatu oocanion, they would nil be en titled to it, and t lint Mr. ['cluck's case should then be considered anDiisf the ie-»t. After a lengthened conversation, it win pioposed by Mr- Merriman, and seconded by the Governor, that the consideration, of the claim xhould be entered into on the next d.iy, svhen, if Mr. [\>lack desired it, he would be heard ut the bur ol the Council in sujtpoic of his claim. Thr 2nd and 3rd cluusrs of the Appropriation Bill were then agreed to, a»d tin- Coiinmttce adjourned.

ExiLKS. Mr. Mcrriman then raovsd tbe following resolution*, which were aeeouded by the Colonial Secretary, and supported l>y the Attorney-General, and adopted by the Council — His lixcellency promising to take the eailiest opportunity of forwarding them to the Secretary of State. The Legislative Council of Now Zenlnml, in Committre, having taken into consideration the pinpoint) of Her Majesty'-. Secretary or Suite respecting the introduction into the Colony of " Convicts holding Ticket". t of Leave" under Ci-rtHin conditions and rt»ii!'iii<>ns, <ts explained in Lord Giey'B Deopatch of the tub August, 1848, <ire of opinion — 1. That the system of lending out '* Convir.ts with Tickets of Leave" cannot be extended to New Zealand in jasticc to Her Majcsty'i subjects who have settled in the Colony, on the faith of the pledge given by Her [ Majesty's Secretary of State that it was to be " a fundamental principle of the new Colony, thai no convict t? ever to be sent Ikithor to undergo his punishment." 2. That the inducements and facilities for escaping into the bush, nflforded by the peculiar circumstances of New Zealand, would materially int-ttcre with, if not altogether prevent, the operation ol that part of the system which contemplates securing to Ihu Colony a supply of free labour by means of funds to be recovered from the convicts thenm-Ives niter their nrriv.il in the colony, and equul in amount to the cost ot their own passage out. 3. That Convicis cannot he introduced into New Zealand without impairing ihe security of person ami property which at present exists in the colony s and without prejudice to the moral condition of both races of its inhabitant!. 4. Thut regard being had to the peculiar circumstances of this country, the Council concur in the opinion expressed by Her Majesty's Secretary of Stale during whose administration meusures were tikrit fur erecting it into a .British Colony, that, however mu<h immediate advantage may be derived from convict, labour, the benefit would b« purchased at no heavy a price, that if the welfare of the Colony alone wer". in question, the introduction o f Convicts into New ZenUnd must be regarded as a short. sighted policy. But looking, also, to the probable effects of such a m^asuia on its Native inhabitants, tbia Council, fntruvod with the responsible duty of inaKin^ such l.i'vs ;>s may be necessary lor the. peace, order, and ijood government of. Hit; Colony, feel themselves bound to declare their opinion that such a measure cannot be applied with mlvnntiigc to the Co'ony of New Zealand. 5. That His Excellency tlio Governor in* Chief betequested to communicate tits forpgoing Resolutions to Her Majesty's Secretary of Stale for the Colonies. Mr. Merrimun moved that the Council do go into committee for the puipose of nddreising the Governor to introduce some measure that would finally settle the claims to land arising out of the ten shilling and penny nn acre proclamations. After a lew remarks from ibe Governor and other members, the motion was withdrawn. The Crown Titles Bill was recommitted, and further postponed until Wednesday. Several notices of motions were given, and the Council adjourned until two o'clock on Wednesday.

Benefit of Draining.—The corn harvest of the present year in the northern district of England has; afforded a striking and interesting illustration of the great benefit derivable from draining in almost completely counteracting the effect of weather ungenial to the maturation of corn crops. The past summer hut been characterised by deficiency of heat and sunshine, with unusual wetness. Notwithstanding the prevalence of weather bo unfavourable, to early and complete maturation of cereal crops, especially of wheat, yet oa the most tenacious »oils which had undergone tho process of efficient draining, except in nitutitions so elevated as materially to reduce the temperature of a generally cold summer, the past harvest w«b by no means unusually lute, and the produce of tho wheaj. crop in such cases was not only abundant in quantity, but also of the very finest quality, quite equal in tho laiter respect lo the best wheat of tho two preceding yen is, which were remarkably favourable to the ported maturation of wheut, whilst, on undramed land, the harvest was late, protracted in it< protein, and the produce deficient in quantity and of indifferent quality. On partially drained land the [harvest wag generully latr, and the produce and quality of tho crops assimilated in character to the extremes i.oticed übovc, in proportion to the decree of perfection in. which the dr-uning had been accomplished. The past season has been one in every way favourable for most completely testing by comparison the effect of n aomuwhat costly improvement, and the result Inn been thn most indisputable proof of such improvement being of great benefit both to the proprietor and occupier of the soil, and of vast impo/timce to the nation at large; and that also everywheie in proporiion to the degree of perfection in which the improvement hus been cuiiied out. It is to be hoped that the evidence which the present year has so abundantly afforded of the important results of draining will redouble a sphitlor prosecuting a work 10 pregnant with benefit to mankind, already so extensively in operation thionghoiit the kingdom, and particularly in all p'irts ot the neighbouring; district. —Newcastle Journal.

This I'opk and tub English Lady.—lf the Pope had gone to Main, says the G-noa conospondonr of Ihu Times, or possibly to England, " h« might have nut with his loimer love; tor there is a stop, ■, in rent, that when in his youth, and in the Gu.n ■<' N ioillj ;it, Rome, he fell deeply in love with a Immumlol En^Usb girl. She refuB"d his suit, altlioii'h imndioine, young, and noble—tolur honour t>e it t/Ul —on iicrount of tin* (liU'csicnoii ol religion, lie took the m.i'ter so much lr> heart, thai he retiivd to a oonvont, bi-cauit* an ecclesiastic, md (ivcntii.illy a Pope. 1'

Acjs Passbd hy Paiimamicnt.—A return moved for by Mr. iirotheison, M I., for Snlford, shows that from 184-2 to 18'17-B inclusive, th< re were pi^cil by the Irnpirml Parliament 2 4(i!i bills, of which fi.T'J were punlic,'-3il> private, and 1,907 loail ,»m'. pivwml Act*