A CLERGYMAN. WELLINGTON. Legislative Council, Saturday, Deccmbeb 23, 1848, {Continued fram last Saturday's New Zealander)

New Zealander, Volume 4, Issue 278, 27 January 1849, Page 6

A CLERGYMAN. WELLINGTON. Legislative Council, Saturday, Deccmbeb 23, 1848, {Continued fram last Saturday's New Zealander )

The Governor-in-Chief con'inued — He attributed his success in a great measure to the v.irious naval and military officers employed in carrying out his policy. It was his opinion her Majesty had never been better served in any colony than in New Zealand, and to them he would look for completing the development of his plans. What course he proposed to pursue for the. future was contained in the paper which he had read He had no doubt honourable gentKmen would see the objects he had in view were, first, to complete the pacification of these islands, and further, to form those institutions which would be fur her developed when those ends were attained: He had stated to honourable gentlemen that the Representative Assembly would consist of a Legislative Council composed of persons summoned thereto by her Majesty, and of an assembly to be composed of representatives returned by the several provinces into which New Zealand may be divided ; and in another part that the repieaentatives should be

returned by diiect election both to the General As. sembly and the Provincial Legislative Councils. Whai induced him to recommend that the provinces shoulc be all under one Government consisting of two chatn. bers. one nominated by the Crown and the other by the people, was that that form of Government prevailed most extensively and was found to answer best through, out the British colonies, and it might also be desiiable to return to the Provincial Councils persons who would not be suitable for the Assembly. He had toM the Council that he had recommended a Legis] a . tive Council consisting of one chamber in each Pro. vince, to be composed of persons snmmoned thereto by her Majesty, and of representatives elected by the elrc tors of the Province, in which chamber the Governor should not have a seat. He said, in stating the composition ol these Piovincial Councils, have stated the powers conferred on them, which were those ofth» present Council. The reason he had notrecomme*<U ed two Councils in each Province was, first, that there might be groat difficulty in obtaining fit persons for two chambers -secondly, with settlements at so great a distance large poweis should, in the fiist instance, be given to the seperatc Councils. That eventually tn e General Assembly would absorb a great portion of those powers and they would relapse into mere Provincial Councils. He had informed the Council that he did not consider such Pjovincial Legislative Council should be made depr ndant on the district accepting a Municipal Corporation or nor. The reasons were obvious. It might be distasteful to many settlements to have a corporation, and secondly, a person might be an excellent member of a corporation but a very-bad repiesemative of a Piovince. The settlers would pro. bably ra.hei choose lepresentatives themselves than a Council who should e'ect those representatives. He then pioceeded to the question of the franchise He had recommended that the right of voting should be exeicised by such, European subjects of her Maiestr as have cither a small astate of freehold in possession in lands or tenementssi'uated withinthe district forwhichi such vote is given, or are householders within such dis-| trict occupying a dwelling of a small anmnl value. He had not touched on the educational qual ficat.ons contained in Lord Giey's scheme, the only points were that the franchise should be «iven to persons holding small estates or who were small householders. The qualification should be as small as possible, for he had observed that persons of the laboring c)a s s leaving L igland and settling in the colonies were more competent to be trusted wild the powers of election than Hie same class at home This be ascribed to several causes. First, to the activity of the religious bodies and the bhare which each man took in the management of the affiirs of his church. Secondly, the possession of a small landed estate compelled perso .s in looking after their own affai s, to ol«Uin a greater degree of information ; for example, it was seldom that p-raons of that class in England were concerned in the conveyance of an estate, it was almost universally tound that persons poseessed of a small property in a colony took an active interest in its prosperity, and in the management of its affairs, much more so than in England, and it was gene.ally fouud thnt person* of that c ass take just views of public questions, in fact he (the Governor) would rather tluow himself on them than on the inhabitants of seaport towns. For thete leasons, therefore, ha had recommended that ai far as Eu.opeans are concerned, the franchise should be extensive. Next, as to the natives. He had only thrown out a hint, as some natives mi^ht wish to have a share in the legislation, but he would leave that point to the General Assembly; hon. gentlemen would see that tins plan piesented some advanta-es. For some yeais questions of delicacy might arise as to the native,, such questions for the present would be left to the General Assen bly. He believed New Zealand would be divided into four provinces, he knew that it would be divided into three. If into lour, then there would be three of those piovince* iv which there were comparatively few or no natives, and consequent'y iv the chamber there would be a majority who might be supposed to take dispassionate views of the native question. He would also point out, that should the Govtrnor be induced by any extraordinary piessure to give his assent to measures injurious to the natives, such measures must be lent home, where they would be fully discussed in the British papers, and the* negative of the Crown would no doubt prevent their coming into operation. He would add a few other lemnrks. fi.sr, he thought it a Q essential part of his plan that as lar as possible the native question should be adjusted before Representative Institutions were introduced, and for that purpose the Government were making every exertion to arrange the different native questions in this province, and to secure such land as might be required for the use of the settlers. Another point was the t stablishmenl of a complete system of education, and he hoped in the Miinraer to see two colleges established in the southern province. The Council had asked him to give them some guarantee that the plan which he bad recommended should b* adopted at the eailitst period. The Council would see that the form of constitution in New Zealand at the present moment was similar to that propased, with^ the single exception that now the whole Council consisted of persons named by the Government, withOJt reference to those holding office. Secondly, there was at the present moment in each province a Provincial Legislative Council which represented in the extent of its poweis tbuj proposed, and by these an experiment would be tri d to bee if they work well, and bow this form of Government would answer ; further, hon. gentlemen would see that all he could do would be to sketch out a skeleton, leaving the details to be fi led in by other persons ; tl-ese details could only be decided by such a Council as the present, such power could only be exercised by perions of local experience, conducting lluir deliberations in public, aad responsible to the public for the advice they might give to the Government. He thought, therefore, he acted wisely in pursuing that course, and in obtaining the advice of the present Council. He had now answered all their questions, and should be happy at any future time to give them fuither details. He would only mention one othtr point. He had p edged himself to recommend the adoption of niea. sures containing the general principles he had stated ; whether he could recommend any other plan wat another question; but he felt confident that this plan would satisfy a large portion of the community, and that it would work well for the prosperity of the country. Mr. Bell enquired whether the session was to be adjourned, or whether its sittings were to be permax nent. His Excellency stated that he proposed to adjourn the Council sine die, but if the Council wished to enter into any further discussion on this subject they could do so.in hit absence as well as in his presence* He thought he had made himself so far understood, that the Council would not require any further explanation from himself personally. Mr. Bell then moved that his Excellency's reply be printed. The Colon'al Secretary then gave notice of the following motion :— Tint' the Council do reiolve itself into a Cmmittee of the whole Council for the purpose of taking into

consideration the reply of hit Excellences Governorin.Chief to the address of the Legislative Council of tie 22nd instant. Some further discussion ensued, in the course of which hii Excellency stited that the persons composing the Councils of the provinces of Otagp nnd Canterbury, would probably be appointed from home, and would bring wiih them a number of valuable laws, particularly those relating to the conveyance of property, in which they would be assisted by the ablest lawyer*, and it might hereaft r be found deji« rable, to boirow many m«gestions from them. The Council then resumed the consideration of the itanding orders, when the Ku!e* from No. 34 to 46 inclusive were adopted. The Council then udjournea until 2 o'clock Tuesday.

Wellington, Tuesday, Dec. 26, 1848. ■y The Council met at two o'clock. All the membars were present: On the motion of the Colonial Secretary, seconded by the Attorney-Gmerali the Council resolved itsel into a Committee of the whole Council. Mr. Hickson said he wiihed to ask his Excellency two questions. Under the third cl.tuse of his Excel, lenry's reply he stuted that he had recommended that a Legislative Council, consisting of one chamber, should he constituted in each Province into which New Zealand may be divided, to be composed of persons Bummoned thereto by her Majesty, and of representatives elected thereto by ihe electees of the Province, in •which chamber the Governor shall not have a seat. JHe wished to know what wai to regulate thp number of ex ojficio members in this Council ? Und r the fourth he&d his Excellency had itated he hod recommended that the General Asjembly should possess in full the ample powers of legislation which are usually conferred on such assemblies. He wished to ask what would be the powers of»the General Assembly, and whether it would have power to place iis veto on any ; bill passed by the Provincial Counci's ? His excellency, in reply to the first question, stated that it was proposed to establish one Council in each Province into which New Zealand was now, or might hereafter be divided, and that the number of memU-rs would be in proportion to the population of the Piovince } in some it miiht be very small, and in otheis very large ; hs hid therefore recommended to her Majesty's G ivernm nt that the i umber of persons summoned by her M«jef-ty should be one-third ol the whole, but that the Gencial Assembly should have power to alter this point at any future time. To the second que tion he would reply that ihe General Asse.iibly would have full power* on all subjects, exc,»t those relaiing to the general interests of the einpiie. For example, it would never do for them to legislate on Admiralty subjects. It would never d,o for a vessel to leave Eng'and under one code of laws, and to be subject to a differ, nt code on amving in the colonies. Many other examples might be given, so. h for inliance as the laws relating to whaling. On til such subjects the General Assen.b y uou'd have no power, but in other respects they would have full j.owtrs. Secondly, he was a^ked whether the General Assembly could place its veto on the acts of the Provincial Councils. To this he would answtr that he had not made any proposition, but the idea floating in his mind was to this effect; that under the peculiar ciicumstances of Nevr Zealand there might in *onie oases i be separate laws in each Piovinre, *heieas it would be more convenient to have one general law, and in such a ea c the G neral Assembly we uld have power to pass such law, and any contrary \dWi exiting in any Province wou d, on the passiug of such general l&w, become of no effect, and in that way ihe Geneial Assembly would virtually take irom the Piovincial Coimeils tome portion of their pcweis, and tvuvu illy they might u urp, as it weie, almost their whole powers. Mr. Dillon Bell said, 1 c confess d th j explanation given by Irs Excellency ot hi" vi>\\s, were not altoge'her consistent vi h a full system of Representative Governoiei.t. He did n)t consider it necessary that the Government should have ai.y n flu 'nee in the Provincial Counci's. If the uieu.bers ol the ExecuMe Council were to be subject to t lection they mi^ht lose i thnr place*, aud the Government might be put to inconvenience in consequence, liu'. excepting those members who weie acting us ministers, he could sec no reason why all the otheis might not be elected by the people. The Attorney-General taid. it appeared to him that if the Coumil contained a very l«ige number of members, one-third nominated by the Goveinment might be cut of proportion. He thought tl c proportion of nominees should depend very much on the number of members. His Excellency said, he would remind honourable gentlemen that it might be necessary, from the state of the natives in any one Province, that the Governor should have some weight in the Provincial Councils. The Coloninl-Secretary su^efeted that the Council ahould adopt some particular proportion. Pie thought if there were not enough nomiiueis to give the Govern* went a tnajori'y, that it was better that the number should be as small as possible, and in his opinion onefourth would be luffi ieiit. Mr. Dillon Bell said, that with respect to the naive ra^e, he thought the Government *as sufficiently protected by the clause which had reference to the discusB'on of questions lelating to the native race. If a Council shou d be established in a Province of small population, the Government might have the majority a> respects ability. His Excellency said, that he now saw tint the only difference between the honourable member and himself was, that the honourable mmber had such confidence in the success of his measure, tint he thought the Government hid attained every guarantee they could require for their own security. He (the Governor), on the contrary, had more humility. He thought, however, that prudence wai on his side; he hardly hoped at once to malic to perfect a measure as he could wish, aud therefore he had left it open to the means of a remedy. He did not think ore third summoned by her Majesty too many. The Govern* ment could not hope to command the support ot the nominees in nil cases, but in q>i stions of importance, such, for instance, as questions relating to the native race, it might be desua'de that persons of ability should be in the council to speak in their belial f . He ahould, however, be happy to transmit any contrary suggestion the Council might think proper to makeIn reply to a question from the Attorney«Generai, bis Excallency stated that it would be in the power of any settlement to mvre a corpoiation if thty chose to apj \y for it. Mr. Dillon B 11 said, if it w»3 in order for him to propose a motion to the Committee, he should propose the following :~ *• That this Council having considered the 3d clause of his Excellency 1 ! reply, would suggest a mod.fication of that part of it which relates to the nomination o certain persons by the Crown in the Provincial Legislative Councils, so as that the only persons who should be nominated by the Crown shonld be the Official Jtfembers of the Executive Council of the Province." His Excellent;) said, that according to tbecomfoiitioa at present stilted, the Crown possetied a

privilege which he considered very valuable, not on'y of summoning any official member, but also of inmnioning any person of ability whose iervicei they might desire to have, but to prevent increasing of nominees it was necessary to place a limit to the number. Mr. Moore said, he considered one third a very fair proportion, and be thought it gave a sufficient guaran'ee that the Government would not exercise undue influence in the Council. lie did not wish to defend the principle of nomination in what was called Representative Government; out he saw, that in some instances, inconvenience might arise io the Government in having too small a limit on the number to be nominated, — for instance, wh<?ie the number of the whole Council was necessari'y small, a propor ion of on?-lourth might not eveii allow of the admission of the necessary Go vctnment, officials ; still, if one -fourth would da, he should be glad to tee the number limited to that proportion. His Excellency remarked that he ha] endeavoured, as far as he Has üb'e, to make (he plan as complete as possible without mailing it dependent on any thing beyond it. The Execuive Counc'l at present consisted of only four members, but it might be varied at the pleasure of her Majesty, and there would therefore be no guarantee that a fixed constitution existed. He saw so many imonvenieuces that he could uot recoin - mnd the Council to adopt the motion, For instance, as regirds the officer commanding the forces, his proper place woUd he in the General Assembly, whereas this resolution bound the Government to put four particu* lar officpis into the Legislative Council. After some fuither discussion the motion was withdiawn. His Excellency then enquired whether hon. gentlemen wished to move any other queition. Mr. Moore asked whether native qualifications were, or were intended to be, defined ? His Excellency said he had made no sugses'ion ; but considering thai the majority of the natives would ' be to a considerable extent subject to influence, he was anxious to make the qu»lifisation rather high, and he had made it 80 high that it was neces>ary to reserve some power to the Governor-in-Chief, and for the p'pser.t sunn power wcu dbe exercised by him. This was one point which wuuld be left to the General Assembly. The Committep., on the m *t«oii of Mr. Hickion, tben adopted the following report: — "The Committee of the whole Council having takpn into consideration his Excellency's reply to their address of the 22, id m'-tint, beg to report that they ure of opinion, •'That the number of persons pummoned by her Majesty to the Provincial Council, in accoi dance with the third head ot his Excellency's leply, shou'd never exceed five, that being, in their opinion, a sufficient number of persons to represent the Government in the L gitlative Body *' The Committee are not prepared to suggest any ! further alieiahous in the plan proposed by his Ex- I oellency. " They would recommend the Council to reqaest his Excellency to u.ge h.r Majesty's advisers to cause the provisions of such a foim of Representative Government to be embodied in an Act of Parliament, to take effect at the period named, oralmch earlier date as may, for that purpose, be proclaimed by the Gov-ernor-in-Chief, the Committee being convinced that it is of the greitest importance to the Islands of New Zealand, tint Kejuesentaive Ins itutions should be introduc.-u at the tarln»-t piacticable d He." 'i lie Committee adjouuieit, and llieir Report was brought up. On the motion of (he Attorney General, the Council adopted the Report of the Committee. On the motion of Mr. Ilicksun the Council adopted the follown* r«solu'ioi> :—: — " That ibis Council has much pleasure in expressing its satif/a ;tion at th>' exposition, by his Exce.lency the Governor in-Clnet, of his jil ins for the introduction of Represe n ative Institutions into New Z<za\ tnd ' ' His livel'enr^ saitl, lhat all the business being concluded, be li<id only to tliank ho». gcnilcmcp for their attendance. He then adj turned tho Council sine die.

We understand tha* the negoc at'ons Tor purchasing the Wauaiapa dis lict arc procrrd n<* more lavourat.ly lhan could lave b en anticipated from the previ us obstacles, and tlie disinclination atone time evinced by the natives at pa>tms; wUh their la- ds. We have ieason to hope (rom the pre ent state of the tifgiciatiom, that they will be speedily and sa isfactonly cencluded. It is fortunate that the Gjvernor-in-Chlef, with whom rests a portion of the responsibility of selecting the locality of the new Bet f 'enient, should have arrived at this interval, hs the chief difficulty in founding it at the lite originally contrmpl-fted will be removed by th» puicha«e of the d'stnet By carrying out this scheme asoriginßlly intended, the whole of the Southern jiart of rhra Island wi'i he concentrated into one compact, poweiful and flmrishinp settlement, with Canterbury for its metropolis aud Wellington for its commercial port, and from the new settlement colonists would spread over the fertile districts of Ahuriri, the plains at the head of the Muna atu, and the extensive level districts of Rngitikt. If, on the other hand, some other distant locality should be selected, we shall be again exposed to the evils occasioned by anoiher rival seitlement with separate and conflict ng interests, evils which we have so often deprecated, and which perpetuate a spirit of localism and divide the different portions ol NewZei'and into so many different communi- | lies, establishing a tort of Heptuichy, and weakening the resources of i he colony, instead of uniting its efforts, und guid'np; its energies in one common impulse. -.Spectator, Dec G.

The folio w'ng extract from a letter from Wanganui gives an interesting account of the effects of the recent eaithquakt'B id that vicinity:— " You ask me for some particulars relative to the late shocks at Wanganui ; compared with those you have experienced, ours have beeu trifling, none of our fir tunics were thrown down or any of our buildings injured, and it is remarkable that although my chirante« are full thirty feet high, nnd rocked to and fro in a violent manner, there is still not even the trace of a crack, in the plaster to mark the shaking they have had. Our principal shock commenced about half past twd on Monday morniuij ; the movement wai very violent, and from the NW or WNW j it was like a wave rolling on its course, but it left a tremulous lateral t»o« tion, which continued for a long time, arid resembled ihe quivering of a dibh of jelly ; about four minutes after the first we had another violent khock, a d I think f may *tx\ it waß nearly an hour before the movement of the eanh ceased to be perceptible ; on the Tuesday »f ernoon we had another «harp ihock, nnd about five o'c ock on the Thursday morning' a third. We have howevet had a series of minor ones, but too gen le to require n,tice. it is our general opinion that the eaithquakes of 1843 were more severe; this appears to be established by their effects ; then nearly all our chimnies were thrown down, the gable end of the church, which is brick, fell ; the earth opened in fearful rents, emitting noxioui gases, which caused much licknesi ; at Rangitikei alia a cliff overwhelmed a

house with its inmates, the land on the S side of the "VVanganui was elevated, and the channel of the river in placet was deepened. " But these late shocks have likewise occasioned several singular changes which are worth recording; on the S side of the Bluff near the mouth of the Wanganui a rock was thrust up in the deepest part of the channel, which is now 18 inches above the low water maik, a thoal has lisen where thcie was a depth of G feet, and a long ipit of land extends from the Wai Puna to Wil&on's ditch, where formerly thrre wis deep water. The gun-boal wharf also has perceptibly tank, and a row of posts near the gun wharf has b~en thrust out full 3 feet. Several fLsures in the tmr were a'so noticed . her the shocks, which have since been filled up ; the beacons also at the he ids are now much out of the perpendicular, and a large tree whic'i founerly was embsdded in the cliy, and was used as a landing place, was removed seveial yards from its potition, and carried further up the stream. In a recent visit up the river I noticed a great number of landslips but none of nny great size. The teacher of Hopeiiki however had a very narrow escape; he was sleeping at the root of a U\ go rata tree; he whs awoke by the tree moving in an extraordinary manner, and immediately ju-rp-d up and ran away; he had only just time to escape Us falling on him and to carry away his garments with him. 1 hive noticed that all our shocks come fiotn the same quirter, which leads me lo sup* pose they radiate fiom some centre seated in the se.x ; the channels of rivers are evidently fissures formed in the upheavement of (he land, the shocks aie chiefl) felt in their vicinity, frequently they are not perceived at a little distance either on one side or the other ; the entire course of ihe Wanganui p raents a series of thase upheavements, the country la> ing in stages from the sea to the central plains of Taupo ; evtry little stream which falls into the Wanganui is but a lateral fissure maiking the extent of one u,>lm<ivement, the one end of the strata being elevated as much as the other end is depressed, the part lilted up being invariably opposite the point from whence our shocks still proceed." —Spectator, Dec 6.

We have had an opportunity of looking over a file o! New Zealand Journals to July Ut, received by the Bcrnicu. They are ihiifly fil ed, eithci with extracts from New Zealand papers, or articles on colonial subjecti from English journals, motst of which have been republished in the Spectator. There is, however, one ar.icle in the Journal of May Cth, refeirins to the murder of Lieutenant Snow and bis family, which deserves a passing notic ■• It is headed with the following title in lar/?e letters .•—••Deplorable Massacre at Auckland.— A. British Officer and his family murdered, and partially eaten by the Natives."— and the editor designates this atrocity ai "the first fruils of the Bishop's proteit." It would l>e difficult to meet with a greater pi<-ce of gabc-mouchtric than this. The London writer builds his theories on the speculations of the Auckland editor, each drawing an opposite conclusion Jrom the supposed fact, the former imputing 1 the commission or the crime to the Natives, as the first fruits of the Bishop of New Zealand's protest, the latter as the cflect of Lord Givy's instiuciions. Flow entirely f-dse a«d unfounded the tuspicions of boil these writers is perftctly notorious— the cnnie having ; been committed, not by a savage, but by a white (we had almoht 8 id civ.lized) tnin, who paid the penalty with lm forfeit life. We do not know whether the editor of the New Zealand Journal will learn ilisc»tion from tins blunder ', we may at least inform him tha*, from the present disposition nnd rapid impiovement of ihe New Zeilanders he is not likely to have any fu urc opportLn.ty of alarming the goad folks of England with stores o/ cannibalism in New 2J j u'a d unless, as in this instance, he tiinfs to his im guialion for his facts, and that buth life imd property nre more setUie in New Zealind than in man? of the most civilized countries in Europe.— JVelUwjtim Spectator.