GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Auckland, Friday, November 17, 1848.

New Zealander, Volume 4, Issue 259, 22 November 1848, Page 3

GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Auckland, Friday, November 17, 1848.

Present: His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief, and all the members. TUe minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed. Robert Clapliam Barstow, Esq , took the necessary oaths, and his seal as a member of the Council. Mr. Merriman presented a petition from several inhabitants of Auckland praying for postponement of fiulher consideration of the " Provincial Councils Bill," which, on the motion of Mr. Merriman, seconded by Mr. Kennedy, was read as follows : — To His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief of New Zealand and the Elonourable the Menbers of the Legislative Council in Council assembled. The Humble Petition of the undersigned Inhabitants of Auckland, Humbly Shewelh, That your Petitioner!, in common with their fellow Coloniiti in the Southern Division, have long and anxious'y looked forward to some amelioration of their political condition with reference to the want of representation of the people in the Legislative Council of this Territory ; and had hoped that it was your Excellency's intention, with the advice and consent of your honourable Council, to confer this piivilege upon them at the parliest opportunity. That your Petitioners have read the draft of a Bill to be willed the •' Provincial Council* Bill," which has been submitted by his Excellency to the Legislative Council, with feelings of the deepest disappointment, feeling assured that a Council formed upon the principles of that Bill could never give satisfaction to the great bulk of the Colonists generally, nor work to the a 1 vantage of either the governing or the governed. , Your Peti'ioners, therefore, humbly pray that your Excellency and your Honourable Council will be pleased to postpone any further consideration of this Bill, until your Petitioners shall have had time to lay hefore your Excellency and your Ilonrtuiable Council, their wants and wishei, as far as tho same may be justly conceded to them, and also until such time aB your Petitioners' fellow Colonists in the South may have been able to make known their feelings on this all-important subject. And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray, &c., &c. [Here follow the signature*.] Mr. Merriman said that the petition had been but a short time in his hands, and, he had not had time to consider it, but now, having heard it read, ho could not lmt concur in the prayer of it. He thought that the bill should not be pressed through the Council with haste; it was most desirable that the opinions of the colonists in the other province should be expressed upon it, before that it were finally adopted ; he would raise no objection to i*s first or even its second reading, but he would feel himself bound to oppose tbe council going into committee upon it until our fellow colonists in the Southern Province had time to consider and express their sentiments upon it He would pro* jHjse that the petition just read be punted. Mr. Kennedy in seconding the motion, said that he fully concurred in the views thathadjust been expressed by his honourable friend ; he thought that this bill should not be hurried through without due consideration The Governor-in Chief said that the question really before the Council was that the bill should be printed Honorable members could reserve their observations until the second reading was proposed, when they would have an opportunity of expressing their views upon the merits of the bill. Petition ordered to be printed. On the motion of the Attorney General bill read a first time. The Attorney General said, that, before proceed, ing to move the second reading of the Bill, he would ask the indulgence of the Council while he briefly re- *** — f^jl ti\ rl«» nifniitwatnunil Übllff*n l^ff in ft IP (\YOr§tf\l9Ht tf\Y\

the new and almost unprecedented powers which ha^ recently been entrusted to it. For he thought that tteh c Council would notdischarge their duty the lets faithfully' or the less efficiently, for having; clearly hefore their minds the responsible nature of those duties, Or the liberal spirit iv which they had been confided to them, frothing, he (the Attorney General) thought, had, for many years, occurred, so cheering to those who had a neir interest in the prosperity of our Colonies, as the course of Imperial Legislation for New Zealand during the last two years. In the year 184'», it would be remembered that a measuie was framed, having, for its object, to give to this country a new constitution : that measure was framed by those who were understood to possess the greatest ability— the greatest knowledge — the greatest experience— and, he verily believed, by those who took the deepest interest in the management of colonial affairs : by those, too, who had access to all the information on the subject of New Zealand which the official lecords of the Colonial Office could afford— that measure came into operation unaltered, and unopposed, and precisely in the form and shape in which it came from the hands of its makers. And yet, that measure, framed under circumstances apparently so favoutable, had no sooner been made known to the local authorities in tins country, than it was at once Seen and admitted at home to be unfit for the time the place — and the circumstance*, fur which it had been enacted. It was then seen that the unfitness of that measure arose from tlie want of precise and accu« rate local knowledge on the part of its framers— and it had since been universally admitted that a measure so important, for a country so distant, and in a condition so peculiar as the colony of New Zealand, ought t» have been I ramed on the suggestion— or, at least, with the advice and assistance— oi those possessing that local knowledge and expeiience. And he thought it was not too sanguine an inierence for JJritMi Col mists now to draw, that no large measure of Colonial interest would in future be enacted until the opinions of those who possessed the belt means of forming a sound judgment had fir*t been heard upon the subject. la the early part of the present year, an Act of Parliament was passed, suspending, for five years, the new constitution. By the provisions of that Act the ordinal Legislative Council was again called into existence— with power to the Governor-in-Chief to add such new membm as he might be pleased to appoint. To the Council so constituted, and which Coumcil they themselves were, the power was given to constitute, within any of the Prounr.es into which New Zealand might be divided, a Pro incial Legislative Council, to be appointed or elected, or appointed and elected, and with such rights, powers, jurisdiction and authority, as the Supreme Legislative Council might prescribe. Hence, then, the Council would see that there had been delegated to them a power which the Imperial Parliament itself had abstained from exercising, for want of the necessary local knowledge. Thus the Council could not conceal from themselves the fact that, on the prudent exercise, on their pait, of the powers to conferred upon them, would depend, not only the welfare of the Colony of New Zealand, but the importance in future to be attached to the value of Colonial experience as it affected the whole of Her Majesty's Colonial posiessions. — Thence the deep responsibility of their present proceedintf*. Although the New Constitution had been suspended only, he (the Attorney General) believed thut the opinions which might then be expressed by the Council would hare some influence in determining whether or not that Constitution would ever come into operation in the Colony. And if it should be determined that it never should come into actual operation ; then, he believed, that the views expressed by the Council would have some influence in determining the nature and character of the Constitution to be ultimate')' conferred upon the Colony. Believing, as he did, that the suspended Constitution contained within itself grave elements of obj j ction— objections which ought to be kept in view in the consideration of the meaiures then beiore them —he tuought he should not be tr iveiling out of the question before the Council if he refer ed briefly to the objections which had been raised to that measure. It had been objected to the suspended Constitution, that looking to the actual condition and circumstances of New Zealand, it was cumbrous and complicated in its machinery. He, hi rut elf, had always thought, and still thought, that th fit was the least important of all the objections. In legislating for a new and growing Colony, as in shaping clothes for a young and growing child, it wag no great ground of objection that ample room was left for expansion. True it «as that the New Constitution was at first unfit for the Colony — but it was not too sanguine an expectation that the Colony would, at no distant time, become fit for the Constitution. It had been objected, also, to the Constitution, that it provided for a system of double voting and election. Upon that point, he (the Attorney General) would offer no opinion : in the firit placo, because the question had no immediate bearing upon the measure then before them— and, secondly, bet ause it was in itself an abstract question ; on which, a residence in New Zealand, or an intimate knowledge of its aflairsi gave to no man any peculiar means of arriving af a sound conclusion. He then came to an objec 1 ion, almost the greatest of all, viz : that the suspended Constitution conferred upon the several Provinces into which the Colony might be divided, legislative powers almost without limit as to their jurisdiction. The effect of which might have been, that, on the subject of marriage — legitimacy — real property law — criminal law — the law of contracts and of bills of exchange — and a score of other important subjects— theie might, In the one Colony of New Zealand, have been as many different laws as Provinces into which the Colony might he divided. It was true that provision had been made for the establishment of a General Assembly, but that Aisembly was not intended to possess supreme power of legislation on all subjects like the present Legislative Council: but was limited in its jurisdiction to six or eight subjects ; and those, not of the greatest importance. Such, then, he conceived io be a fatal blot on the intended system : and he besought the Council, and ail who might i future have the power of guiding the course of legislation for this country, not to fall into an error which he believed to be injurious to the welfare of the Colony. He now came to the greatest objection of all, viz. :— that the suspended Constitution, whi c it purported to give to the people of this country a system of representative self-government, would, in effect, have given to a small European minority the power of governing, not themselves only, but the wht c of Her Majesty's subjects in New Zealand. If New Zealand had been originally an unoccupied country — colonised by fifteen thousand British bom subjects, and all occupying the same district— it would have been no great tax on the ingenuity of Parliament to have framed a Constitution which, while it gave to the Colonists the amplest powers of governing themselves, might at the same time have secured the interests of the mother country in New Zealand as a field of emigration for her superabundant population. But such were not the simple elements with which the Legislator in this case ha I to deal. Those who re. sided in this country, and especially those who had any share in its government, were reminded almost every day of their lives that New Zealand was

people whose independence had recently been recognised in the most formal manner by the British Crown— a people intelligent— of aa independent spirit and jenlous to a degree of their rights— a people brave and warlike— and outnumbering, by five times, our , own fellow countrymen— a people who by treaty had become British subjects— and who had ceded their independence to the faith and honour of the British Crown— a people too who were the acknowledged owners of the larger portion of the soil. Such were the complicated elements with which the Council had to deal. If then it were propoied to give to Her Majesty's subjects in this country, without diitinction of rare, a fair and equal system of representative government, it would be found that whether the elective franch/se should be based Upon numbers, intelligence, or property, the remit would be, to throw the balance of political power, into the hands of Her Majesty's native subjects— a reiuit, which he believed no man in the country would deiire to see realized. But, for himself, he would take his objection to a complete system of representative government, at present, for both races, on totally different grounds. They might differ amongst themselves, as to the best means of promoting; the object, but he (the AttnrneyGeneial) would yield to no one in a sincere desire for the welfare and advancement of the native race. But he fimily believed and he would take that opportunity of declaring in the most unequivocal terms and in the most public manuer, his belief, that the native people of New Zealand had no desire at present, to obtain such political power — that, not having been accustomed to the possession of such power, they were at present unfit for its exercise— and that we should be doing nothing for their real benefit and improvement* by thrusting upon them duties and responsibilities which would subject them to all the evils of bribery, drunkenness, peijury, and corruption which so disgraced the representative system in the mother country. And further, that relying on their own power, and on the faith and honour of the Crown, the Natives of this country were content to be governed by its justice and wisdom. Such, then, werp some of the difficulties of giving, at preient, to her Majesty's subjects in this country a general system of representative government. But it might be askpd by our own countrymen settled in this colony — "Were they to be denied all power* of self-government because they happened to bo a minority in a country in which the majority were indifferent to, or unfit for, the exeroine of such powen ?" He. the Attorney-General, would answer — most assuredly not. Let the amplest powers of self-government be given to the British cojoniits in New Zealand, as freely as the windi of heaven. But let care be taken in conferring upon them that power, not to give them, at the same time, the powrr of imposing taxes, duties, penaltiei, and restrictions upon their native fellow-iubject*, who, by treaty, had yielded their own independent powers of self- overnment, in order to be governed, not by an inferior number of stranger* who had colonised their native country, but in order to be governed by the immediate authority of the Britiih Crown. Such, aftain, were some of the difficulties of giving to New Zealand a partial system of representative government. Having brought under the observation of the Council the difficulty and delicacy that then, and for a long period would continue to attend all constitutional legislation for this country ; lie would proceed to the more immediate consideration of the measure then bc f ore the Council. Before they could foim a true estimate of the fitneit of that measure, they should keep before their minds the exact extent und meaiure of the additional powers which had recently been coniened upon them, and the precist state of circum•tances with which they had to deal. They could not, then, too clearly bear in mind that, great and unutunl as thoie powers were, there had not been given to them the power of enacting do novo a new and complete constitution for the colony, but only of adding to, and fi ling up, a system already existing ; that by the recent Act of Parliament, the root of their authority, their power wai confined to constituting within any of the Provinces into vhich New Zealand might be divided, a Provincial Legislative Council to be appointed or elected, or appointed and elected, a» they might prescribe, together with such rights, power, jurisdiction, and authority as the Supreme Legislative Council might appoint. Such then were the poweisof the Council. What were the circumstances with which they had to deal ? They would find alrrady in existence a Supreme Legislative Council for the whole colony, with whose jurisdiction they had no power in any way to interfere — a Council, in the constitution of which there was not the smallest element of the representative principle — a Council which would have an unlimited controlling power over any legislative council which might be constituted for the Provinces. They would aUo find in existence a constitutional system for the government of the municipalities into which the colony might be divided, based upon the most liberal principle of representation, and with the fullcU powers of legislation on the most important subjects of local interest— a Constitution which every British settlement in New Zealand might have for the asking. In prospect, too, they would find that, after the short interval of four years, the suspended Constitution of 1846, as the law then stood, wai to come into operation— a Council differing altogether from that now in operation, and which wou d entirely abrogate any system of government which this present Council nrght call into existence. They would find, too, that a great and sudden emergency had arisen in the South which would seem to render it desirable that the local authorities of the Province of New Muniter should immediately be invested with the power of legislating for the local re« quirements of that Province. It appeared, therefore, to him, the Attorney« General, that the real practical question (or their consideration was, whether, looking at the circumstances as they found them, and considering the »hoi t time that they had for deliberation, it was in fact safe and expedient for the Council to go beyond the measure propostd for their assent. Let that measuie be considered in its true character— and as what it truly professes to be— not a fin»l mea»ure— not a measure of representative government— but simply as a temporary extension to the Provinces, with a view to local convenience, of the principle of the existing Supieme Council. Let it be considered that any alterations that it contained, were alterations in the right direction — that it increased the number and proportian of unofficial members— that it secured the tenure of their office — that it provided for the attendance of members from various and distant parts ot ttie coun< try — and that it secured to ev«iy Province the exjien' diture within itself of its own revenues; and bethought that the Bill then before them would recommend itself to their favorable consideration. Under all the circumstances of the case, he (the Attorney-General) wai himself prepared to give it his unqualified asuent ; and with many apologies for trespassing so long, and he feared tediously, on the time of the Council, he would conclude by moving that the Bill be then read a second time. Mr. Merriman said that as he before observed he was not going to ofl'cr any opposition to the second reading _/* il - IMI TJ „ _ *™ M^ I .„. !n ,« 4« „«/. n 1,111 **.aaaa/T

that would establish Provincial Councils iti New Zealand, but he thought that the one now proposed by His Excellency was not such a measure as would give satisfaction to the colonists North or South ; and, therefore, although he was not about to oppose the second reading, yet he could not give the measure now before the Council his unqualified assent. The Council should well consider the effects of the bill and pause beloie they gave a hasty assent to it. It was h measure which deeply involved the future destinies of New Zealand ; and the Council, in allowing it hastily to become law, might be, as it were, tying a stone around the neck of their fellow colonists, which could not be so icadily removed— they might be hoisting upon their shoulders, as ttinbad did th« Old Man of the Sea, an act which might ride oppressively updn the energies of the colony. \ This me isure hud only been put into the hands ot the members on the day before the assembly of the Council, and how could they give it that consideration which its importance demands. It was purported to be passed •' with the advice and consent" of that Council, but how could it be expected that the Council could advise with deliberation and effect upon a meastne of such importance which had only been two days in their hands t Mr. Kennedy said that, while he agreed with all that had fallen from the honourable member who had just sat down, he could not concur in some of the obseivations of the hoHorab'e the Attorney General. He took a very different view from that gentlemen of the result of that part of the bill which gave a greater number of non official members over official in the provincial councils. It was true that the bill made such provision} still it did not provide against the nominee members being persons who might not be in some way or other under government influence. What guarantee therefore have ihe colonists that their interests will be represented in those Councils. His views were so fully expressed by his honorable friend Mr. Merriman, that he would reserve any further obseiyations on the bill until its details should come before the Council. The Governor in-Cbief said that perhaps it would be> becoming in him, after What had fallen from the honorable members, to say a word or two on the bill that he had introduced to them, the merits of which they were then considering. He felt this to be his duty, although he coud not see the force of the objections raised ; indeed he could hardly appreciate them in proportion to the stress which the honorable members seemed to haves laid upon them. The preparation of this bill had oc* cupied his attention for a consideiable time. It had been a matter of the deepest and mo-»t anxious concern to him to frame such a measure as would be suitable to the present circumstances of New Zealand. The result of his careful and lengthened deliberation, after conversing with, and having the opinions of the leading men in various parts of the country, he had presented to the Council in this bill— and he could now tell them that he hardly knew how he could have acted to have done better, or produced a measure better adapted to> the state of the country. He believed that many oF the settlers at the south, from conversations he had held with them, were aware of the nature of this measure, and expected such an one to be enacted. The* honorable member was anxious to ascertain the opinions of the settlers of the Southern province, and he (the Governor) had taken the only means in his power to* acquire a knowledge of the opinions of the settlers there yb conversing with some of the leading men amongst them— but he believed that the best way to ascertain the feelings of the people at the South upou public questions, wan to give them without delay what had been so long enjoyed by the settlers at the North — Legislative Counci's. What is proposed by this hill is to giv& them complete control over their own affairs, and toenable them to 1 confer with the general government on matters not entirely local upon which they may wish to express their sentiments. At present he found it difficult to ascertain the feelings of the colonists ; deputations from the people, it is true, had been in communication with him, but nmongst the persons composing such bod.es were often to be found some who would not be the very best to advise with. He believed that many of the southern settlers had complete and perfect knowledge of what was going to be done by this bill. If their views could be gleaned from their local papers certainly they seemed to be aware of what he was going to introduce, and even in the Sydney piperf he had seen nearly a full exposition of his views on this subject, and of the steps tint he was about to take. With regard to the short time that members have had to consider the bill— they were all aware of the necessity that existed at the present juncture for promptitudein giving the Government of the Southern province power to asbemble a Legislative body. He had intended that the bill should have been introduced to this council when formed by a larger number of members, some of whom should have been gentlemen from the South— but circumstances had transpired that prevented him from taking that step, however deiirable it might have been. Nevertheless, he believed that in justice to the other Province he could not delay any longer introducing a measure to give them Legislative powers ; that measure he be« lieved to be one that would confer a boon upon them, inasmuch us it was a step in advance, which by degrcei might still be modified as circumstances altered. It was not one that must of necessity continue in fore* under its present provision during the five years that the Constitution was suspended j a* the circumstancett of the colony changed, the bill might be so amended as to be adapted to the improved conditioa of the colony. After a few observations from the Attorney-General, in reply to the objections raised by Mr. Merriman and Mr. Kennedy, the bill was read a second time. On the motion of the Attorney-General, that the Council do go into committee on the bill, Mr. Merriman said, that the bill had now proceeded ns fjr as, in his opinion, it should, until the Council and the Colonist* had due time to consider its tendency and prqbable effects. For Ins own part, he thought that if the bill was now passed, the colonists would be bound to the old nominee system, for a time that might be inconveniently perpetuated. He would therefore move, as an amendment, " That the further consideration of this bill be postponed until the sentiments of the colonists can be ascertained on the subject." Mr. Kennedy seconded the amendment, because he believed that the bill did not give the colonists those institutions that they desired and expected; and although the bill provided for a larger number of nonofficial members than hi&erto had seats in the Legis- \ lativo Council, yet as^those members were to be- | nominees of the Crown, the colonilts had no guarantee I of their independence. The Attorney-General said, that the serious calamity that had lately occurred in ihs Southern Province rendered it necessary tbstt some measure should be passed at once to give them the powers of legislation. An emergency had ari.en, and it would be unwise to admit of any delay in giving to their fellow settler"; : power to oonsder and adopt such measures as they would ' deem expedient under their present exigency. Ih« Council had met to pass some measure to remove the disabilities under which the other province laboured ; and what would be the use of delaying until their „■_.< u_._j t. t... n J m >tt»A Miif «iinhi

delay now would be inconvenient to the tettlers them • selves. Mr. Merriman believed that the delay would not be Inconvenient, but satisfactory to the colonists at the South. He believed that the settlers there were most anxious (or representative institutions. He thought that their newspaper* took a very different view of the subject from what hit Excellency had gathered from them ; indeed they were inceisant in their demandi for representative institutions. This was one reason why he should desire that the bill should not now be pressed. His Excellency, no doubt, had better opportunities of knowing the sentiments of the people at the South than had any of the honorable members. Indeed, he seemed to be the only one in the Council who was acquainted with their opinions ; but it was highly necenary that the sentiments of the colonisti on this bill should be fully understood by every j member of that Council before they rushed hastily on to its enactment. The Colonial Secretary thought that the bill would give the Colonists of the Southern Province the same opportunity of legislation as wis formerly only enjoyed at the North. It would place thrm at least upon a limilar footing with this part of New Zealand as regardi legislative powers. He would like to nee representative inktitutions granted to the colony, hut believed that such a transition should be gradually brought about. A change, and an important one, in the number of non-official members of the provincial councils, had been introduced into this bill, and, by degrees, others might, with a view to the altered state of the circumstances of the country, also be beneficially introduced ; but in the transition from the one extreme of the old system, to that new one which was now demanded, great care and discretion should be exercised, considering the peculiar character of the population* Representative institutions, under ecrtaiu circumstances, were, no doubt, desirable ; and the spirit of this bill, which advanced a step beyond the old system, might be taken at an earnest that that which was most desirable would be gradually introduced. The Governor-in-Chief then rose and said, that the principal and only decided objection to the bill, raised by the honorable members, was its exclusion of the principle of legislative representation. Now, he was prepared to meet this objection as f. illy and as decidedly ; And he would be candid with the council — for be was persuaded that was the best course,— and tell them, that after the most mature consideration, he had arrived ut the conclusion, that under its present circumstances New Zealand was not prepared for the exercise of representative powers. This conclusion had not been arrived at hurriedly. These views were held by him during the last twelve months, md he felt more throughly convinced that his views were correct, after Be had given the subject his most earnest attention and deepest consideration. He would not recommend nor assent to the introduction of a principle which, he could say before God and man, he believed to be so unsafe aad dangeious to this country under its existing circumstances— a system that he believed would be at tended with the most direful consequences, in arraying against each other two races of people, one of which was the original inhabitants of the country, a people powerful ia numbers, jealous of their rights, and watchful to an extreme degree of any encroachment on their privileges. In endeavouring to rule New Zealand he was determined to be guided by his conscience, so as to be able to stand before his country, in future, dear from the stain and odium of having participated in or given countenance to any act that would endanger the interests and safety of the Colony.— His fixed determination, therefore, was, not to introduce representative institutions, at present. — What he intended to do, would be effected by degrees. He was prepared to advance slowly, but surely, step by step ; he would not burthen his conscience by the knowledge of having brought about calamitous •consequences, by introducing a system of legislation that he felt was premature, in order to satisfy the demands of parties who had net perhaps given the subject sufficiently disinterested consideration. No; he was determined to move with caution in this direction until the European population of New Zealand should be further advanced. There was no colony on a parallel with this where representative institutions were enjoyed. The early colonies of America have been brought into question on this subject, but from all that he had read, and gathered from others with whom he bad conversed concerning them, this colony differed very much from them. This colony has not been formed, in the first place as many of those were.— Large bodies of persons migrated to those colonies md settled down, carrying with them all the institutions of their native land, and governing themselves according to the spirit of the laws to which they had been accustomed— regulating their own expenditure and providing for their own protection. Widely different has been the case with regard to New Zealand. Individuals from all quarters htd flocked promiscoutly to these shores before rule was established or the sovereignty ceded to the British Crown. Immense blocks of land lad been acquired ftom the natives, the claims to which have given rise to much litigation and jealousy between the races. The colonists are the minority, and are protected at the expense of England against a brave, warlike, and intelligent race. So long as this state of things exist there are no reasonable grounds for placing in the hands of the Colonists the powers of self government. It would be clearly just that the colony should be able to protect and support itself befoie it should have complete control over its own government. Holding these views, he could not accede to demands which he believed to be unreasonable. It is very easy for people residing at Auckland, who have no cause to leave the precincts of its sheltered garrison, to talk of self-legislation ; but let such persons go into the distant interior and observe the close intimacy upon which the settlers and the natives must stand to each other, and tbea say would it be prudent to endanger the safety of the settlers by provoking jealousy in the minds of the aborigines. Parties in security may look vary superficially at our position in this country, but let responsibility, such as rested upon his (the Governor's) shoulders, be placed upon their own, and they would feel the great weight and importance of such responsibility. He believed that the people at the South would be pleased with the bill in its preeent shape ; but if he was asked if it were all that they desired, he should say — no. He was aware that they wanted further powers, but he questioned whether they were right in demanding them. His honorable friend, the Attorney-General, had stated very clearly, for which he thanked him, the views which he, the Governor, held upon the system of | legislation that had been prepared for the colony., Against that proposed system he felt it his duty to appeal, for the reasons ajready stated to the Council. The only safe system that he could see for the rule of this colony, at ita present stage, was embodied in the bill now before them. He would have felt inclined to go farther, had his conscience permitted htm. The principle of the bill was the only one that he believed adapted to th? state of New Zealand ; and with this conviction be could not go beyond it at present*. Mr. Mrrriman then Dressed his amendment, when

merit, and the official against it. The amendment was lost. The Council then resolved in committee on the bill. On the third clause being read, which provides for the nomination of Members of the Councils by the Governor, Mr. KcnneJy proposed the following amendmentIt »hall be lawful for the Governor or LieutenantGovernor of the Province, by letter* patent under the Great Seal of the Province, from time to time, to issue writi for the election of surh other periom, by the houieholders of the Province, to be Members of the t-aid Legislative Council ; provided that the number of Members of the said Council who shall be so elected, shall always exceed the number who hold any office under the Crown or under the Colonial Government. Mr. Merriman said, that notwithstanding what had fallen from his Excellency, he found it necessary to raise hit voice once more, although he knew it wai all in vain, against the impetuosity manifested to pass this bill through committee. He had given the amendment which he rose to second no thought; he did not know whether its provision was the best way to amend the bill ; what he was about to support was the principle it embodied. This matter required consideration, but time to deliberate wns denied to the Council. His fexcfllency had informed members that he had maturely considered the bill ; but yet he tumid not allow the same privilege to the members of his Council, His Excellency would not allow himself to be hurried into any incautioutneis, but he would expect his Council to rush headlong on, whilst he would only udvance with cautious step-. Mr. Merrinmn calleJ upon his Excellency to give the Council that time for deliberation which he demanded for himself, and concluded by seconding the amendment, but could not bind himself to the plan it proposed. The Govrrnor-in-Chief, in replyt said, that he did not at>k the Council to ruth into any rash act ; what he asked of the Council was to give that to other places which had been long ago given to themselves ; to enable other Provinces to manage their own affairs, which had hitherto been managed in Auckland. He asked nothing, more than what was justice towards other settlements, while he was asked to ruth into the adoption of a principle that he was prepared to show the Colony was unfit to receive. Aft^ several observations by the Attornry General, Mr. Merriman, and his Excellency, strangers were again ordered to withdraw, when the Council divided on tb.3 amendment. For the amendment— Messrs. Kennedy, Merrimau, and Barstow. Against it — the Govemor-in»Chief, and the Officia Member. Th« third clause was therefore carried without amendment. Tbe other clauses then passed through committee, with but slight alterations.

Supreme Court Amendment Bill. On the motion of Mr. Merriman, this bill was re a^ a first and second time, and agreed to in committte.

Postage Bill. On the motion of the Colonial Secretary, this biO was read a firtt and second time, and committed, when several amendments were introduced. The Governor then laid on the table, a bill for the Naturalization of the Rev. Mr. Kissliug and family. He apologized for not introducing it formally to their notice on the day previous, but hoped the Council would not object to proceed with it, as they would be conferring a favour upon a very amiable gentleman, «nd a valuable citizen of the community. Several noticei of motion were given for (he following day, and the Council adjourned until four o'clock on Saturday.

Saturday. Nov. 18. Preient— Hii Exce Hency the Governor-in-Chief and all the Member*— except Mr. Kennedy.

Provincial Councils Bill. The Attorney General moved the third reading of this bill. Mr. Merriman suid that he was not about to make any specific motion to oppose the third reading of this bill, but he would again call upon the Council to pause before pasting it, and give time for its consideration. The Attorney- General then said that he had henrd no argument brought against the Bill— none of its clauses had been painted out ai mischievous — the only thing complained of was that it did not go far enough. If this was really a fault in it, what was to hinder i's amendment at a future time, when iti working I, ad beeu tested. He could gee no reason for the delay called for by the honorable member. The Governor being desirous to bring the powers of legislation, with the lemt poisible delay, into the southern province, could see no reaion why the Council should pauie before pasting this Bill. It was his sincere desire that other portions of New Zealand should have the benefit of Legis'ntive Councils ; and although the constitution of the Councils provided by the Bill might not be all that was desired, yet he believed that the system would be found to be the one bust suited to the emergency of the timei, and that it would be considered as a step in the right direction. A pause at this time would be simply to keep the powers of legislation for New Zealand altogether at Auckland. Ht did not wish to be debarred from meeting a legislative body elsewhere, where his presence was immediately required, and therefore he could not desira that any pause should take place. The Bill was then read a third time and passed.

Naturalization Bill. On the motion of the Attorney General this hill was read a first and «econd time, and while in committee, on the motion of the Colonial Treasurer, the name of Mr. Henry Keeling, lenior, wis added to the Schedule. The bill was then read a third time, and pasted. On the motion of the Colonial Secretary, the Pottage Bi ll wai read a third time and pasted. On the motion of Mr. Merritnan the Supreme Court Amendment Bill was read a third time and pa-sed. The Governor-in-Chief then said that the business before the Council having been brought to a dote he had to thank the honorable gentlemen for their attendance, and the attention they had giren to the few measures that he found it most urgent to bring under their notice. It was necessary fur him to proceed without delay to the Southern Province, and assist in bringing into operation one of the Acts that had just been passed. He believed that a third Province would almost immediately be formed in these itlands, and it would give him unfeigned pleasure to meet the General Council in an enlarged form as toon at practicable, when it would be composed of members from each of the Provinces. There was no man in New Zealand who would be more desirous than himself to see measures adopted calculated to establish the Colony on a secure and prosperous footing ; and he trusted that, with the assistance of the geneial Council, he would be enabled to bring about such satisfactory changes from time to