LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, July 29th, 1847. Present—His Excellency the Governor, and all the Members, except Mr. Domett. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed.

New Zealander, Volume 3, Issue 122, 31 July 1847, Page 2

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, July 29th , 1847. Present — His Excellency the Governor, and all the Members, except Mr. Domett. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed.

Native Force Bill. The Attorney-Genera* saidv that in nioviog the second reading of the Native Force bill, it would not be necessary for him to occupy at any length the time of the council in- introducing it to their notice. The bill simply recited that Her Majesty was about to raise a body of native troops in New Zealand, and then enacted that the troops so to be raised, should be placed under the Mutiny Act and the Articles of War. If the bill had recited' that it was expedient to* raise such a force, or hud it enacted that the force should he_m^'utainoduMit.olXlaLMuaL£unds, it would have been necessary for him, the At-^~ torney -General, to have entered at, length into the consideration of the general question. Doubtless, there were many interesting points connected with the consideration of tlie question 1 of raising a Native foice. How the force should be raised -T- how, disciplined — whether it should be raited from one tribe or from vai ious part* of the country—how far, too, and to what extent, such a force should be relied upon, in lieu of European troops— and on what occasions, were all important subjects, which he. the Attorney General, had no doubt would receive the serious consideration: of those whosejduty it would be to carry into operation the views of He* Ma* jesty's Government. As, however, the simple question raised by the bill was, whether in the event of such a force being raised»before an Officer, being expressly commissioned by the. Queen to command them, should he tent out, this force should not be placed for purposes of discipline, under the operation of the Mutiny Act, and the Articles of War. He thought no argument was necessary to induce the Council to concur in the expediency of the measure, and he would conclude with (moving the second reading of the bill. . " ' Mr. Brown said that he agreed with the learned Attorney General, that the present bill did not admit of discussion upon the expediency or inexpediency of raising a native force, yet that there existed diftetence of opinion on the subject — but although the object of the bill apparently prohibited discussion upon the merits of embodying such a-force,—disconnec-tedly with that difference of opinion upon the matter, he for one, would like to know iipon what grounds the Government would justify the raising of the proposed force. He himself with hit present information and views, could see more reasons against than for the proceeding ; * he bad enquired of others, whom he supposed competent, from their knowledge of the native character, to form an opinion on (he subject, and he had met with uone who approved of what the Government bad in contemplation. He felt that the present bill embarrassed him in offering any remarks upon the subject, he would wish to hear the Government give some explanation of their views on the policy of it. The Governor said that there was nothing in the present bill, to prevent the hun. member from stating to the Council his objections, to the principle of raising a Native Force. Mr. Brown remarked, that in consequence of what had fallen from his Excellency, he would now state the objections which had occurred to him. Tbe first of these was, that the Native mind would be directed to military employments, and to ideas of the pomp and glory of war, instead of to the more useful and more peaceable engagements of agriculture and social improvement? the next objection was, that prices of labour would be very much raised, in consequence of the high pay which- the Government would give the proposed regiments, ana the colonists would thereby suffer loss. The employment of tbe native* by the Government, on the public roads, at the wage* of v, 6d. a day.

had already done "mischief in this way, for he had just received a letter from Hokianga, by which he learned that the nativei even there, would not now work for-lesi than the amount of wages given by government. The third objection he bad to mention was, that the proposed measure would- greatly tend to demoralize the female portion of them, .which appeared evident from what had taken place in the conduct of the native police now enrolled at Auckland. Beside* these objections he might mention the expense of such a force, for he believed that ioldier> could, be maintained iv the colony at a cheaper rate, than the proposed native regjmenti. The desertion of the natives would create a source of quarrel between the two races, for the chiefs to whoie tribes the deserters belonged, would not give them up without a struggle. The deserters, having acquired a knowledge of our mode of discipline, would be able to teach their tribes, and the natives would *lmve all the advantages of our discipline, and their own knowledge of the country to bring against us, in the event of an outbreak. He m ould more particularly rely upon the force of his objections, as to the tendency the system would have to demoralize . the natives, and' to direct their attention from useful industrial pursuits to the vie of arms, and the associations of war. These were some of the objections that occurred to his mind, and which led him to look upon the proposed system as one that was calculated to produce mischievous consequences. Mr. Donnelly agreed with the gentlemen wjio preceded him, in thinking, that tho' they were excluded lrom the formal discussion of several very important subjects connected with the bill before the council, no good objection could be made to such general references to those subjects, ai might elicit information from the government. Unfortunately, the most important oi these subjects, the raising of a Native Regiment for the service of Her Majesty was, it would seem,, already determined upon. He had on a former oocaaion, advocated in the council, the propriety of establiihing a Police Force, partly composed of Natives, and partly of' Europeans, at a measure intimately connected with the accomplishment of two objects, which always seemed to him to be essential to the progress, if not to the existence of the colony, namely, the amalgamation of the races, and the security of life and property in the rural districts. Such a force might be called a colonising regiment, as at once inducing, promoting and protecting colonization, and its utility in this way, was (in his opinion) clearly and decisively established by his Excellency hmisolij upon the occasion to which he just referred. It was well known that English regiments could not be employed with success in service of this nature, without weakening the strict^ ness of military discipline, and impairing their general utility in the ordinary service of Her Majesty. But he (Mr. Donnelly), nevertheless agreed with Mr. Brown in thinking, that a native regiment for the general service of Her Majesty, would be olyeotionable, in every way* The government of a community by arraying one portion of it against another was essentially unjust, tndhe thought that the application of this principle to so insignificant a body as the natives of New Zealand, could hardly be considered to be, even as a piece of policy, very respectable ; neither did he think that the settlers could bo called upon to rely on such a force for protection in the event of war with the native race. The police force was partly native ai.4 partly European, but it would seem, that the new regiment was to be composed entirely of natives. What was the occasion of the change ? The experiment of the police force was certainly instituted under very disadvantageous tircumstances,— in towns, or the vicinity of towns, and without thejippliances necessary for ensuring its success. No provision was made for the instruction and moral discipline of the natives who served in the force, in order to secure them against the temptations', by which they were on every side beset. The experiment was nevertheless, partially successful, it was proved beyond doubt, that the natives were patient of discipline, and continued service, and if other results expected from the experiment, and particularly those expected from the intermixture of the races, did not appear, the failure might perhaps with, reason be as 7 cribed to the unfavourable circumstances under which the experiment was to a certain extent necessarily made. As to tho payment of the Police force when completed, and the new Native Regiment, he could not by any means agree with his Excellency in thinking, that in three or four years the revenue of the colony would be, after satisfaction of the other charges upon it, sufficient for the payment of these forces, or wen one of them, and if other reasons were wanting, the yery announcement of Earl Grey that in three or four years, from the piesent time, one half of the military force now in the colony, would be withdrawn from it, —would sufficiently establish the correctness of his opinion. For, at the very time, a large revenue would be wanting, the source of a considerable portion of it would be removed. The hon. member concluded by observing, that he' touched but very lightly upon the topics connected with the bill, as his object was more to draw the attention of others to them, than to discuss them himself. The Colonial Secretary did not see how the council could oppose the raising of native troops, inasmuch as it was Her Majesty's prerogative to do so from amongst her own subjects. Parliament, or such bodies as th«t council, had nothing, to do with embodying the force $ their duty amounted io lhe providing for their payment when raised. He could see no reason why the bill should not be passed— similar forces had been raised iv other colonies, viz., at Ceylon, Capo, of Good Hope, the West Indies, &c,, and they; have been found better adapted to the duty o( those countries than our own troops, and less expensive, Even in this country, when we were obliged to take the field against the natives, it -was found that our troops could not act eflici* ently without the aid of our native allies. The system, also, was more economical than intro* dncing troop* from England—for it coit Britain jgl2o Tor every soldier sent to India, and a larger •urn per head for those sent to this colony. He, as well as the hon. members, had no doubt of the immoral tendency of the system, but he trusted that proper discipline would in a great measure counteract that evil. He thought, also, that the circumstance of Her Majesty proceeding to raise troops in New Zealand, would prove to the natives that she was desirous to (rent all her subjects alike, and debar none the honor of •erving in her army. The Governor observed that he might be able to remove certain misapprehensions from the minds of bon. members, and he would begin by stating that there was an error committed iv confounding the proposed force with the police foice already partially embodied. He had always held that b police force was indispeniably

necessary in New> Zealand, in. order to enable the Government to keep up communication with thedistant settlements; and the late occurrences at the South proved the usefulness of such a r orcc in this respect. Honorable gentlemen in Air kland, who had only seen the police performing duties in the town) knew little about the valuable services rendered by that body in the South. The most distant military post-fiom Wellington was about 120 or 130 miles oft', and it was necessary to keep open a communication between the extreme out post and head -quarters, in order to curry provisions and ammunition to the troops, as well as to relieve them from time to time by other detachments. This could only be accomplished by opening up a road, and by keeping that road open when once made j and in order to do this, it was intended to station, at intervals along the road, a number of police, to communicate with each other, and convey instructions and commands with despatch and without molestation, to and from the posU occupied by the military. Within two or three months there would be opened up about forty miles of road leading from Wellington towards Wanganui, and if the whole line were once constructed, our positions could bo better maintained, and our military defences become more effective for the security of the settlers,, There could be no adequate idea formed of the great impoitance of a police force in this country, by merely; observing the duties in the,town^-hoi|. gentlemen would require to witness some of the difficulties with which our force had lately to contend at Wanganui, in order that they might learn the great necessity for, the employment of police in the manner he had named — for he was certain that the troops could not keep their position successfully without the aid of the police. lie, therefore,believed for these reasons that it was the boundeu duty of the colonists to raise a police : force, and to maintain it. It had been hinted that he (the Governor), had signified to. Her Majesty's government that the colonists should pay the troops which were proposed to be raised in the colony :be had never done so;— the words which he believed had been alluded to, were those addressed to her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies, as follows — " 1 have, no " doubt that the local revenue will shortly afford " the means of supporting so considerable and " efficient a police force, partly composed of nap " lives, that it will be in the power of the local " government in three or four years to dispense " with the presence of a considerable portion of " the military force which recent occurrences " have rendered it necessary temporarily to sta- " tion here." And such was still his, (the Governor's) opinion. He believed that emigrants would sopu commence to arrive regularly; that our hold in the colony would not be confined to the settlements now formed, but that we should overspread, and progress in developing the resources of the country ; that the revenue would thus increase with our prosperity, and so enable us to maintain an effective police force, tha,t would so act as to obviate the necessity of dispersing the troops in small inefficient detachments over the country. But this police force U far different from the one proposed ; and if Her Majestj thought proper to raise a body of troops from among her New Zealand subjects, it was not the business of that Council to interfere, He d.id not think that such a proceeding was open to all the objections raised against it. The system of raising native troops had succeeded well in other countiiei, for in addition to many other advantages, there were greater facilities afforded for recruiting the force, and preserving its efficiency. Britain has maintained her hold of India hy means of her Sepoy regiments, and in whatever country the natives are thus embodied, the Government have an additional hold upon it. But how could that Council know what might be Her Majesty's design in raising thfa force, — or whether it might not be called upon to serve in other countries, as well as this, it was not a question for that specific council to consider, it was a matter thut concerned the whole empire j for, in the event of a war taking place, the force although raised in this colony, might be oidered elsewhere for active service. As to the objection which was raised about the consequences of desertion, and the probability of the deserters instructing the native population in our mode of warfare,-* why, the sooner that happened all the batter would it be for our chances of success, if obliged to act against them. If our mode of discipline should be observed by them, we would" have little difficulty in overcoming the lebellious. That the system would be attended with evils, he could not deny, fot the example and associations connected with military life did not tend to improve morality, but every country was obli* ged to set apart one part of the community, and support that portion, lor the purpose of protecting the remainder j and until laws could be made and enforced to change the human heart, that stale of things must remain. There was another subject to which he ought to advert, and that was, the payment of these troops when raised, He was very desirous that Ihe Council should dismiss from their minds the idea that the colonists would be obliged to bear this burthen. What 6Um had her Majesty set apart for the purposes of government, in the provisions of the late Charter, which she had graciously granted to this colony f Only the sum of g6OOO,g 6000, from eaoh of the provinces, for the support of a Civil List, placing the whole of the remainder at the disposal of the Legislatuie, to be voted as they thought best for the purpose of the colony. He supposed it not improbable that when the. estimates should come to be considered, much stormy discussion and grumbling might arise t yet he felt sure that ultimately they would feel bound to study their own interests, and provide efficient protection for themselves. The Attorney General observed, that as no opposition had been offered, to the bill itself, among the observations which had fallen from the hon. members, he found it unnecessary to reply, for that there was nothing to be an* swered. Mr. Brown said that he was perfectly aware the principle of the bill wag not open to discus* sion, and that on that account he had abstained from offering objection: that the observations he had made at the commencement were only

for the purpose of eliciting from His Excellency •ome observation* with respect to the policy of the measure. He would still with to. make one observation with respect to what had fallen fiom Flis Excellency, concerning, the tendency which our mode of discipline would have to unfit them to contend with our own troops. It was th|s view of the case which led him to believe that our own troops would be more efficient for our defence and maintenance of power in the country. The bill was then read a second lime, and the council went into committee. At the suggestion of the Governor, the consideration of the title and preamble of the bijl was postponed till Saturday. When the first clause was under consideration, Mr. Brown said that he thought the Natives should have an opportunity of arriving at the knowledge of the Acl» of Parliament and Articles of War, referred to in that clause. He should, therefore, propose this addition to the clause : — " That an Abstract of the provision* of said Acte of Parliament and Articles of War be printed in the M&ori and English language, and published in the Government Gazette' After a few observations, the committee ad* jounied to Saturday. (For want of room, we are obliged- to postpone the remainder of our council reports until Wednesday). Previous to the adjournment of the Counci), his Excellency laid on the Table a Bill for establishing a Paper Currency > the following is an