LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

New Zealander, Volume 2, Issue 72, 17 October 1846, Page 3

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Saturpay, October 10, 1846. Present- His Excellency the Governor, Colonial Secretary, Attorney General, Colonial Treasubbr, and W. Donnelly, A. Domett, and A. Kennedy, Esqrs. Mr. Donnelly moved the order of the day for resuming, in committee, the Sheriff's Office Bill, the consideration of which had been postponed from the previous day, that the Governor might examine the Table of Fees. The Governor said, that upon consideration of that ttaxt of the Bill which related to fees, he had come to the conclusion that it would be better to exclude any fixed scale; and leave it open to be arranged from time to tune' as the circumstances of each district required. It would not, he said, be judicious to make one general scale for the entire Colony } and if the Bill was passed without the Table of Fees attached to it, then, the Executive could fix such fees from time to time, as would be found requisite. After some observations from the Attorney General, the 12th Clause, and the Schedule, were struck out oi the Bill; and it was ordered to be read a third time on Mr.^kennedy moved the order of the day for the second reading of the Prisons' Bill, butupon the motion of Mr. Donnelly, it was postponed to Monday, 12th mst. The Colonial Secretary moved the order of the day for the further consideration of the Native Trust Amendment Bill. , The Governor said, that he was desirous to make some remarks upon the bill now before the Council. Since the bill had been under their consideration, he had received a letter from the honorable member, Mr. Donnelly, who had taken such interest in the present measure. He, the Governor, would most readily admit, that with several of the suggestions contained in that letter he could most cordially agree ; but he wished the Council distinctly to understand that in the observations he had made when the bill was last before them, relative to the sale of Native reserves, that he had no intention, to dispose of such lands immediately, even if he had the power to do so. The great object of these reserves, was to raise a fund for the improvement and education ' of the native race. Now, in the present circumstances of the Colony {he reserves were insufficient to produce a competent Mid. And he was unable at present to appropriate funds resulting from them to buch purposes. What he bad iv view was to grant,as he had been doing, a loan onbehalf of the Imperial Government for the objects for which the reserves were set apart; and to be enabled to say that in such reserves existed a security tor that loan being refunded. But so long as the present Native Trust Ordinance remained law, the trustees, by it appointed, had the exclusive power over the reserves, and no portion of the funds arising from them ■was at the disposal of the Government. Great mischief ] had already accrued from this ordinance. The trustees themselves were unable to net efficiently, for how could gentlemen residing at Auckland manage the business of the 'lrust at Otago, and over the vast tracts of country within the Colony? Besides, his own operations intended for the benefit of the natives, would be stopped altogether. He, the Governor, had already granted a loan for such purposes. An hospital was about to be erected at Auckland, and another at Wellington, *nd he had other benficial schemes in contemplation. Now, his intention was, to bring a system of gradual improvement of the aborigines into immediate operation, and for this purpose he called upon the Council to assist lrim by their suggestion and advice in the establishment of lome plan which would operate for the real advantage of the Natives. Under the present trust system nothing

substantial could be done ; there were about forty tenants, he believed, Holding-under the trustees j -but in such a state of confusion were the affairs of the Trust, that the tenanta refused to pay rent— alleging, that they were ignorant of the parties to^whom they were accountable. The Attorney General said that some misunderstanding seemed to exist relative to the power given by the ordinance to the Trustees. The act did not vest the reserve property in any one. The property set apart for the natives was supposed to be vested in the Ciown, and the Ordinance complained of, did nothiug more than appoint Trustees for the management of that property, and for all others which might hereafter be granted or bequeathed for the benefit of the natives.— He considered that there was nothing in the Ordinance which prevented the Governor from making reserves, for their benefit, and of appointing, under the ordinance, trustees for the purpose of managing the property to the best advantage. Mr. Donnelly said, that his sole object in bringing the matter so prominently before His Excellency and the Council, was to urge the commencement of a duty which we owe to the Natives, and which had been neglected too long. He looked upon the property set apart for the Natives, as sacred, and should not like to see them deprived of that which would at present realise but Small returns, but which h«i •after as might be expected, would be to them of great value ; yet he could fall in with the views of His Excellency, in his desire to take an immediate step towards accomplishing such great objects as he had in contemplation. It appeared that the Home Government who had consented to the Ordinance, had looked upon the reserves as productive property, whereas, in reality, the proceeds were not only now incompetent for the objects intended by the Ordinance, but most likely they would continue for many years to be totally insignificant. He would therefore, most gladly support His Excellency in any wise measure he might undertake, for the purpose of promptly providing for the improvement of 'the aborigines of this The Governor, in reply to what had fallen from the Attorney General, said, that he understood the 'Native Trust Ordinance to confer upon the Trustees appointed by it, all control over the reserves, and other property set apart for the Natives; and that the Crown was deprived of any right to interfere. Such, he conceived, was the obvious interpretation of the Act. The Attorney General still thought that the Ordinance was misunderstood. He was one of those who had framed that measure, but, he had taken no particular interest in its origination. Beyond the drafting of the Bill, he had no more to do with it than any other member of the Executive Council. But he could say that by that Act, the framers never intended to exclude the Croivn from the right of overruling the reserves, and appointing Trustees. , The Governor observed, that a distinction had been attempted to be made between the intentions of the Act, and, what he conceived to be, its real meaning; but that distinction was merely theoretical. He contended that when there was no trustlund, there was no necessity for an Ordinance to appoint Trustees. The moiety of 15 per cent, which was set apart for the Natives out of land sales, had been insignificant, and most probably would long remain so; he therefore, was -led to confess that he considered an Ordinance, which held iorth such specious and very plausible professions, but which remained, and must long remain inoperative, was ndthing more than an injurious delusion, and a complete mockery. The Attorney General, on behalf of the Trustees, said, that those gentlemen, who, with himself held that office, would be ready at any time to surrender the authority which was vested in thtm by the Ordinance, into the hands of the Government. Mr. Kennedy wished to know what was really understood by Native Reserves, or in what they consisted in this district? The Governor said, that the honorable memWr had touched, however unconsciously, upon one of the evils «f the existing law. The Government could have no knowledge of the extent of what property was applicable to the objects of the trust. His desire was', that the power should be vested in the Government to deal with such reserves for twelve months, and at the end of that time the Council could call upon the Governor for the result, and then some satisfactory information-could be brought before their notice. With respect to the observations which had fallen from the Attorney General, relative to the resignation of the present board ot Trustees, he the Governor, would wish to be understood that he had found .no fault with the members of the board; and, he would take that public opportunity of stating, that if it should become his duty to appoint Trustees, he knew of no gentlemen to whom he would make the offer before those who now held that office. Mr. Kennedy said that the former Governor was m the habit of granting leases of reserves ; he was unable to give leases of Crown property for a longer period than twelve months, and to enable him to extend the time he had declared Crown Lands to be native reserves, whix'h empowered him then to lease for 99 years. The Colonial Secretary said thfrt no real lease had been granted by Governor Fitz Roy of such property. The Governor said that, notwithstanding, there had been agreements drawn up, copies of whichwerenow in the Colonial Secretary's Office, which bound the Government to grant leases when the Ordinance should be confirmed by the Queen. This was another proof of the evil working of the Ordinance. He found himself placed in an awkward position by this Act. It had now received the confirmation of Her Majesty, and if he refused to act upon it, he might he accused of arbitrary conduct. He had no desire to leave himself open to censure in this measure ; and he would therefore, when bringing tne estimates before the Council, propose, that certain sums should be appropriated for the purposes of the Ordinance, and request the Council to pass such resolutions as would bear him out in the course he had adopted. The further consideration of the bill was adjourned. The Attorney General moved that the third reading of the Supreme Court Amendment Bill be postponeed j till Monday. j Mr. Kennedy moved first reading of the Destitute , Persons Relief Bill. Bill read accordingly. ] The Governor laid on the table a Bill to provide for , the Administration of Justice in certain cases; and promised to lay the Estimates on the table on aa early day. Council adjourned till Monday.

Monday, October 12, 1846. Council met at 12 o'clock. j Present : All the members. i Mu Kennedy moved for the following returns:— " I. A Return of the total number of acres of land, from the commencement of the Colony, sold by the Government in each year, with the gross proceeds of sales. " 2. A Keturn of the total number of acres of land granted by the Government in each year, distinguishing whether to purchasers, by way of exchange to Land Claimants, or to the New Zealand Company. " 3, A Return of the total number qf acres of Crown Land surveyed by the Government. "4th. A Return showing the number of acres of land, within the ' Northern district, which, having been surveyed, and once offered tor sale at Public Auction, are now open to purchaser* at a fixed price.

"5. A Return of the estimated number of-«eres of, land purchased by the Crown in the Northern 'district, i direct from the Natives. "<?. A Return of the total expenditure of the Surrey department for each year, since the establishment ofthe Colony. "7< A Return of the total expenditure for each year in rhaking wharfs, roads, and bridges, in the Northern • district of the Colony, "8. A'Rettfrn of the total Government expenditure for each year in immigration." After some observations from His Excellency, the returns were ordered to'be laid on the table. The Council then went into Committee on the Prisons' Bill. The 4th clause was read, and subjected to discussion ; it was as follows :— •' It shall be lawful for the Sheriff of the District, or the Visiting Justice of any Public Gaol, to order any person who may have been sentenced to imprisonment without being sentenced to hard labor, and who shall not maintain himself, to be set to some work or labor, the same being not severe ; and no such Prisoner who ! has the means of maintaining 'himself, shall have -any | claim to be supported at the Public expence." I Mr. Donnelly thought that the Sheriff should not be empowered to add to the sentence of the Judge ; and that no additional punishment should be inflicted without the concurrence of two Visiting Justices. The honorable member proposed an amendment to that effect. The Colonial Secretary thought that the Justice, visiting once a month would be cognisant of all that would transpire relative to the nature of the work which ,the prisoners would be required to do. He, the Colonial Secretary, had'had some experience in the management of prisoners, and 'he could safely say, that it would i work badly for the Sheriff to be obliged to call ma third party to interfere in the discipline of the Gaol. The Attorney General would certainly hesitate toi agree to the amendment. It was absolutely necessary that a Sheriff should act promptly on the spot, to enforce the strict discipline of the Gaol, without reference to a third party. He should be placed in a similar position to the Captain of a ship, whose commands were imperative, and admitted of no interference. The utmost confusion and disorder would prevail if the Captain of a vessel was not invested with the entire command, or if his orders were liable to be questioned, and cavil* d at by others. In like manner, the Sheriff should have the uncontroul'd management of the inmates of the Gaol. The Governor said, that he thought the tendency of the proposed amendment would be to upset the Bill altogether. The principle of the Bill was as follows : —to place large powers in the hands of the Sheriff that he might be enabled to exert a proper influence over the .prisoners under his control, and the conduct of the Sheriff would be subject to the revision of the Visiting Justices, who would report to the Governor on all abuses ; so that a proper check would be held over the several officers, from the Gaoler upwards. This system had been instituted in other Colonies, and had been approved of at home, not only by the Imperial Government, but also by persons who took an interest in the discipline of Gaols. In England, and in the Colonies it was customary to give the control of Gaols into the hands of " Superintendents," or " Governors js>j 5> but, from what he, the Governor, had observed in, other places, he thought it more desirable to restrict the powers of such officers, and allow no punishment to be inflicted on the prisoner, except such as was ordered by the Sheriffj who would be held responsible to the Executive for the equitable discharge of his duties. The amendment supposed that all Justices of the Peace were good tempered and humane men. Now, he did not wish to cast any imputation upon the Magistrates, but he considered that there were to be found among that body as great a proportion of ill-tempered individuals as there were a,mong the same number of any other cUss ,of men. He agreed with the honorable Colonial Secretary that the greatest possible authority should be exercised over prisoners ; and should the amendment be adopted, he knew not how the business of the Gaols could be, safely conducted, for prisoners might refuse with impunity to obey the orders of the Sheriif, without such orders had the concurrence of two Justices of the Peace. He therefore thought the clause had better stand as read. The Attorney General understood the Bill to provide for Visiting Justices, who, among other things, would receive all complaints preferred by the prisoners in the Gaol. Mr. Donnelly did not wish to destroy the general efficiency of Gaols. The amendment proposed by him only applied to isolated cases, where he thought it desirable to preclude the Sheriff from adding to the sentence of the Judge who had committed the prisoner; he had no wish whatever to interfere in the general discipline of the Gaol. The Colonial Secretary had visited Gaols and Hospitals in most parts of Europe, but he had never known it to be the case that a third party was called in to interfere with the commands of the person having the management After some few observations from the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. Domett, and Mr. Donnelly, it was proposed that the further consideration of the clause should be postponed. The Governor had no objection to the postponement, but, he might remind the Council that they were not called upon to consent to any new system, for the same law existed in other colonies, and had been agreed to at home ; "yet, he would not say, that because such was the case, no alteration should be made to answer this colony : other rules might be required for New Zealand; but he did not wish the members to imagine that he was introducing new or arbitrary measures which were unknown elsewhere. Further consideration of the clause was postponed. Upon the 11th clause being read, which provides that " Such Visiting Justices shall once at least in every quarter of a year, make a Report in writing to His Excellency the Governor,' or to the Superintendent of the Southern Division " &c, the Attorney- General suggested, that as there was a probability of the Colony ■ being divided, the words " Superintendent of the Southern Division " should stand "or other Officer, appointed by the Governor from time to time." Mr. Domett, thought the word "Governor" might as well now be substituted for Superintendent. The Attorney-General's amendment was agreed to, and after some discussion, of no great importance, upon the other clauses, the Bill was postponed till another day. The Supreme Court amendment Ordinance was read a third time and passed. On the third reading of the Sheriffs' Bill, Mr. Donnelly said that any observations he thought necessary to make on this bill, dnring its process, were only of a. general character, and did not apply to any individual personally. Bill passed. The Governor laid on the table a Return of Fees received by the Sheriff an Sheriffs Bailiff. The Attorney-General gave notice of the first reading of a Bill to allow the importation of Wines duty free for the use of the Naval and Military Ofecers serving in the Colony af New Zealand. Mr. Kennedy moved the second reading of the Destitute persons relief bill, and further consideration of Prisons Bill for Tuesday. Council aid'ourned till Tuesday, 12 o'clock.

i Tuesday, Oct. is, 184 a \ Council met at 12 o'clock* Pkesent ; all the Members. Mr. Donnelly moved for a Return, which Hii Excellency suggested might be divided into three, and i stand as follows: " Ist. A return of the total yearly expenditure de« frayed from local funds (excluding the expenditure upon the Protectorate Department) for the purpose of promoting 'Native improvement and education in each district •of the Colony, from the foundation of the Colony up to the 30th June last. " 2nd. A return of the expenditure in each year, for similar purposes, which may have heen defrayed from Imperial funds, shewing the mode in which such funds may have been applied. "3d. A return of all funds which may tinder any laws or regulations whatever, have been applicable to the purpose of promoting Native improvement and education, and of the manner in which such sums have been actually appropriated." Ou the motion of Mr. Kennedy, the Council went, into Committee ou the Prisons Bill, and se\eral improvements in the 4th clause were suggested by Hi« Excellency and the Colonial Treasurer, which were agreed to. The 10th clause was read and stood as follows, *< 10. It shall be lawful for His Excellency the Governor to nomiuate and appoint Justices of the Peace, who shail consent thereto, to be Visitors of each Gaol within the Colony, who, or any two of them shall personally visit such Gaol at least once * mouth, and ofteuer if occasion should require." Mr. Domett thought that the blank should be filed up with not less tan two' justices. The Governor was inclined to think that one would be enough. It might be difficult in some small districts, to get two who could conveniemly visit the Gaol; for he even knew large districts whei'e such difficulty was felt. The only power oue visiting !jui»tice would have by the Sin clause was to place * prisoner for seven days in solitary confinement, for breach "of regulations j aud if a larger punishment was necessary, two might be appealed to. Mr. Domett enquired if it was intended that the visiting justices should publish their report. If not abuses might exist in the gaol, aud the public know nothing of the fact The Governor said that such form as the one named by the Hoir Member would be attended with considerable expense ia printing. He apprehended that there was no probability of Bastiles being set up in New Zealaud. The duty of the justices would be to report periodically the state or tlic gaol to the government. Tins system, he conceived, would prevent ill-tempered gentlemen from inflicting unnecessary puuishineuis upon the prisoners; and the Council, in pa»siug this bill now before them, would act most mercifully towards delinquents. The system set agoing by the bill, was a Wise one, and than, which he knew no better. By it the gaoler was. restricted in his severity, and the sheriff also, to a certaiu/6xtent; aud should the Government be inclined to/couutenance any improper proceedings of these /-officers, they also would be subject to censure from the Home authouties. After some other remarks from the Colonial Secretary and Mr. Domett, the committee adjourned. On the motion of Mr. Kennedy the Council went into committee on the Destitute Persons Relief Bill. Mr. Kennedy enquired why the Bill made no provision lor any destitute individuals but those who bad relations. The Goveruor said that this bill was intended as » first step towards preventing destitution in the ColonyAfter the . act had been in operation some time, th» amount of distress which might exist would be better ascertained, and then the Governor could come before the Council with a totally different measure to provide for destitution. On the 4th -clause being read, which provides that " Every iperson who shall unlawfully desert his wife, or who shall unlawfully desert any of his children," &c. Mr. Domett enquired what was meant by " unlawfully -deserting" a man's wife. He felt a difficulty in arriving at the meaning of the word " unlawful " as here ap,plied. A man should not be compelled to live with « wife of notorious bad character, and if he left her, it should not be termed " unlawfully deserting." The Governor said, one of the first objects of the bill was to relieve the Government from the support of people who had relations competent to sustain them; but if it was proved before a magistrate that a woman had been deserted by her husband owing to her had character, she would have no claim upon the government for support. Mr. Domett proposed that the words " without reasonable cause," be inserted alter " unlawfully deserting." Amendment agreed to. Mr. Domett remarked that the amount of penalty, upon men deserting their wives and families, should not be fixed at too high a rate. Individuals could not be prevented from going away, and if they changed their mind, and wished to return, the thought of having to pay a high penalty, might prevent them. He did not wish the wives to be for ever deprived of their husbands r who, in some cases would return, if the penalty of ten pounds was not hanging over their heads. Mr. Donnelly said, that clear proof of fraternity ought to be given before men should be compelled to support illegitimate children. After some observations from Mr. Domett upon thi* head, The Governor said, that he contemplated throughout this measure, to relieve the public funds, from unnecessary outlay. The mother as well as the father, would be compelled to contribute towards the support of their illegitimate children ; and, why should the mother not bear her part if she was in such circumstances as to admit of it? The Bill was not intended to place a premium on crime, for the mother could not iix fraternity upon any one without the evidence of some two respectable householders ; but the main object was to provide for the maintenance and education of children, whomight be left destitute by their parents. No greater evil could scarcely be imagined, than a race of half-caste children coming within our circle, according as civilization progressed, who, being left without support, would have recourse to every species of impropriety, whichwould entail the greatest possible evil upon the future circumstances of the country. Mr. Domett thought that the care of half-ca»te children should be given to European women, who would see that they were brought up to our habits and usages. And after some other suggestion* and improvement* to the Bill, the committee adjourned. The Attorney-General gave notice for Wednesday, of the second reading of the Naval and Military Officers* Wine Bill, and oi the Coroners' Bill, and first reading of the Customs Amendment Bill. The Governor laid on the table a statement of the assets and liabilities of the Colony up to the 3Cth September last, which upon the motion of Mr. Kennedy, was ordered to be printed. In answer to enquiries from Mr. Domett; His .Excellency stated that tne sum of £8000 had been granted this year for New Zealand by Parliament, for specific purposes, and about £22,000' ; additional to be applied by the Governor ai emergencies might require. , Council adjourned*

Wednesday, October 14th, 1846. Council met at 12 o'clock. Present :— All the members. Mr. Kennedy moved for the further consideration of the Prisons' Bill, which, after having been duly discussed, and a few amendments and alterations introduced, was ordered to be read a third time on the following day. The Attorney General moved the order of the day for the second readiug of the Coroners' Bill. On the motion of the same member, the Bill was committed ; And, after an introduction of a few amendments, the Bill was ordered to be read a third time on the following day. The Attorney General moved the second reading of the Bill for importing Wine duty free for Naval and Military Officers. The Bill was read a second time, and after some revision, was ordered to be read a third time on the following day. On the motion of Mr. Kennedy, the consideration of the Destitute Persons' Relief Bill was resumed. A conversation took place relative to the merits of some of the clauses, and the Bill was further postponed till following day. The Attorney General moved the order of the day for the first reading of the Customs' Amendment Bill, which was read accordingly, and ordered to be read a Becond time on the following day. Mr. Donnelly gave notice that he should move the first reading of the Weights and Measures' Bill on Thursday. The Governor laid on the table four of the Returns xA'oved for, by Mr. Kennedy on Monday. Council adjourned.

Thursday, October 15. Present. — All the Members. The Council resumed in Committee on the Destitute Persons Relief Bill. The Attorney-General suggested that a minimum as well aa a maximum sum should be fixed to be paid byfathers for the support of their illegitimate children, and he proposed three shillings for the former, and ten shillings for the latter sum. The Governor thonght that three shillings was too much ; the sum should not be higher than was charged at the Bishops school, or at the "Wesleyan Native Institution. The sums of two shillings and six-pence, and ten shillings were agreed to. Upon the suggestion of Mr. Domett, a conversation arose aa to the propriety of compounding with parents who were about to leave the Colony. And it was agreed that a clause should be introduced to regulate the amount proper to be paid under such circumstances. Mr. Domett proposed a new clause for the purpose of having half-castee children, of illegitimate birth, placed in the custody of European females, for to be brought up. This he considered essential#n order that the other parts of the bill might operate. The bill provided that at a certain age the children should be bound apprentice to some trade, but who, he would ask, wouldbe willing to take a boy who had been brought up among the natives, and had been bred to all the usages of savage life. The further consideration of the bill was left over till Friday. ' The Attorney-General moved the second reading of the Customs Amendment Bill. He said that the present measure was not intended to alter, but to amend, the existing law. Provision was made by this bill for landing goods at certain places to be appointed by the Governor, and that was the rule in other colonies at the present time. In Auckland such regulation would be necessary, for where the beach extended so far, goods could be landed without the cognizance of the Officers of Customs. With regard to that part of the bill which related to the unlading of Cattle, he would say that some such rule was necessary in order to prevent accidents occurring from cattle being landed in the several bays, where it was often dangerous for females to pass along at the time. He considered that it would be very desirable that a landing place should be appointed, for the lading and unlading of goods, at which the Custom-house officer could conveniently be in constant attendance. The bill was also intended to secure the proper valuation of goods imported into the Colony. The old ordinance was not just so stringent as to prevent defrauds upon the revenue ; but he was happy to say that no instance of the kind had been known in this part of the Colony. The bill also improved the old measure with regard to the means of detecting smuggled goods, and he thought that, altogether it was calculated to have a beneficial effect. With these obseivations he would leave the bill for the consideration of the conncil. Mr. Donnelly admitted that the principle of the Bill was good, and proper ; but he considered that the 28th clause of the old Ordinance should be repealed altogether, if the bill passed as it now stood. lie could see no distinction between clause 4 of the new bill, and the 28th clause of the old, and should they both remain co-existent, the work ng of the measuie would he rendered incomplete, and con* siderable confusion would accrue. The Attorney General replied to Mr. Donnellys objection, and the bill was committed. Mr. Kennedy remarked, upon the first clause, that the word " lading" should be left out. Persons sending off goods to vessels, had to take advantage of the tides, and as there were no regular quays or wharfs yet erected, he thought that the bill should not interfere with the ladiug of vessels. The Colonial Secretary thought that the word might stand, and that the matter could be regulated by the Governors' Proclamation. The Attorney General said, that there should be fixed hours for the discharging of vessels. Mr. Kennedy thought that tbat would also be objectionable, until the public had the facilities of proper wharfs or quays. The Governor said, that New Zealand was unfortunate in not having the advautage of advice from tbe law officers in Englaud, who were well versed in Customs' regulations all over the world. Other colonies had had the benefit of such advice, but here ihe Government was deprived of such guidance in consequence of the frequent changes which had takeu place in the Customs' regulations of the colony. Tbe law officers at home had furnished the various colonies with a letter of instructions how to act, and a very excellent document it was ; but tbe reports which had been sent home from New Zealand of the likelihood of insurrection resulting from tbe inaintainance of Customs' establishments in the Colony, bad led these officeis to believe that their instructions could not be carried out in this couutry ; and hence arose the imperfections of the old ordinances. The first clause was then agreed to. Mr. Donnelly suggested an adjournment of the committee, that tbe Council might have time to consider the measure. The Governor had no objection to an adjournment ; he was also desirous to give tbe bill a little more consideration; but he would remind the Council that the inanageu ent and control of the Customs ] was in the hands of a central board in Euglaml, and that very little authority could be exercised over that department by tbe local Government. In the event of anything occurring, which might be considered unjust, there exiited a oioit impartial tribunal at

home, appointed to receive appeals ; and he believed that a more equitable tribunal did not exist in the world than the law officers appointed to receive such appeals. He therefore considered that no unjust or unfair treatment would be likely to ensue from Customs' officers in the execution of their duty. Mr. Domett enquired if the sth clause had been taken from the English Act. The Attorney-General replied that it was copied from a Van Diemen's Land Ordinanct. Mr. Domett thought that it would be wise to avoid the introducion of the laws of convict colonies into this country. In such colonies it no doubt was advisable to enact very strict laws, but these laws were of too arbitrary a character to be made applicable to free country like New Zealand. Several other clauses were discussed, and the further considration of the bill was postponed. The Coroners Bill, the Naval and Military Officers' "Wines Bill, and the Prisons Bill, were read a third time and passed. The Governor laid on the table two returns, which were moved for by Mr. Donnelly on Tuesday last, Council adjourned.

Friday, October, 16th, Present— AH the Members. The Governor laid on the table, a return, moved for by Mr, Donnelly, which together with others that had been called for by the same honorable member, were ordered to be printed. The Attorney-General, moved the further consideration of the Customs Amendment Bill. In reply to some observations from Mr. Donnelly upon the fourth clause, which refers to the 28th clause of the existing ordinance. The Govefnof said, that by the 28th clause of the Customs Ordinance which provides for the impost of an ad valorem duty upon imported goods, he understood that the goods should be rated according to their value at the port of entry, and not, as had been the practice hitherto, according to their value at the port of exportation, This rule, he believed was observed both in New South Wales and Hobart Town. The Colonial Secrtary agree d wit the Governor. He stated that instances had come to this knowledge of entries having been passed for goods, the declared value of which was below the cost price of the articles in England, Mr. Kennedy objected to the interpretation put upon the ordinance by the Governor. He conceived that His Excellency was in error respecting the practice in New South Wales and Hobart Town. He considered that such an interpretation, if carried out, would entail grievous burdens upon the consumer, The merchants would not suffer but the community at large would be subjected to a very heavy indirect tax. He argued against the view taken by His | Excellency, upon the ground of the instability of the Auckland market, Taking for example the case of an importer of sugar, an article constantly fluctuating in value, he remarked that such persons might be called upon to pay duty upou a consignment of sugar to day, when the article was scarce, and high, hi price; and the next day a large supply might arrive, the price and the duty would fall together, and the unfortunate importer of yesterday would he unable to dispose of his commodity on equal terms with others, in consequence of the high rate of duty that had been exacted from him. He, was much surprised at the observations that had fallen from the Colonial Secretary. The honorable member should recollect, that he was not only casting imputations upon the conduct of the merchants of Auckland, biit also by implication, preferring serious charges against the Collector of Customs. The Attorney General thought that the Colonial Secretary was laboring under some misapprehension. He, the Attorney General, believed that no acts of evasion of the kind alluded to, could have escaped the vigilance of Mr. D'Avch, than whom, a more active and efficient officer was not to be found in Her Majesty's service. The Governor admitted that thete was some weight in the objections raised by Mr. Kennedy on account of the fluctuating value ot goods in this market, but he still thought the present system very unsatisfactory and unequal. He thought that the difficulty might be obviated by publishing weekly m the Government Gazette, a true wholesale price current. Cases might frequently occur, of goods being of less value here than in England, and the importers would naturally seek to avail themselves ot this circumstance when declaring to their entries. He, the Governor, was firmly persuaded that the true intent of the ordinance would not sanction the system at preseut adopted. Mr. Kennedy said, that if such were His Excellency's decided opinion, he would move that the further consideration of this bill be postponed until Monday, 19th inst., which was agreed to. The Weights and Measures Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. The Destitute Persons' Relief Bill was ordered for further consideration also on Monday. Council adjourned till Monday.