PARLIAMENTARY.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume XVI, Issue 208, 1 September 1881, Page 4

PARLIAMENTARY.

Wellington, Wednesday. Sir G. Grey a.k^d tbat tbey should he allowed till 7 30 tocongider the ruling laid down by the Speaker, tifter which cv o f »portunitv should be given for debating that ruling. In reply to Mr Bryce, the Speaker said that it was quite competebt for members on the question of a( »j OUrD . ment to discuss the position he intended to assume, and if possible to show tbat tbat position wss untenable. He was quite open to correction. Mr Hursthouse gave tbe Government toundereiand his secession from its ran__s, announcing that for the future be held himself free to join whatever party he might think fit. Sir G. Grey contended that if the House had became unmanageable, end the Government desired to punhh the members, tben tbe dnty of the Goverrment was to dissolve Parliament and leave tbe country to settle the dispute. The Standing Orders ought not to be emplojel for coercin- the House or osin? tbe Speaker for such a purpose. Mr Hill called attention to the remaik. The Speaker repu fitted the insinuation that he had been made use of for eny party purpose or object. Sir G Grey continued to cay that he bad not intended to impute any improper motive to the Speaker, nor did he think he h u d done so; all he desired was to prevent the Spe ker being placed in a position whica would countenance tbe impressioo tbat be was •osing his authority to coerce the Housa. If the Government thought itself strong ecouuh iet it attempt to suspend the Stftcdirg Or^prs. or if it co-sidered itself in the right then let it diseolve the Bouse aud appeal to .h«! country. Either course waa open to if. H? repudiated al! intenuon, as la! been imputed to him, of attempting to deprive Otago anj Cart.rbury of what they were honorably entitled to. He proceeded to say that he hed no desire to put the Speiker in a false position, but simply to save him from committing himeelf to a wrong course. He then diacuißed the two Standing Orders quoted by the Speaker, arguing that until a motion for a. journment was decided no otber business could be brought on for th_t d 6 y. Down to the preeent day they had always followed & different couree from the one now proposed, and a great crisis like thia was not a fitting time to import new forms or interpretations into their modes of proceedure. Mr Gisborne urged that the motion for adjournment superseded all other questions. He considered the question befcre the House to be wbetber a oertain imperfect step, gravely effecting the interests of a large proportion of the Colony, should be teken until the matter was relegated for decision by the electors. The Government desired to itflict what be conceived a great wrou-, an] tben leave it to be rectified wben the pereons on whom the wrocg was itfliete.l were wiped out of political existence, and the Bitoation of tba wrong doers greatly strengthened by the consummation of the wrocg ifself. That, he contended, was the fair statement of the case. He blamed tbe Government for allowing itself to be led by the majority. Instead of defying the House, ba fully believed tbat the Nelson men in tbeir action bad the sympathy of ths country. J*ir W. Fox to come extent sympathised with the Nelson men, but he denied tbat tbere was anything noble in their conduct. What tbey had been doiog was to figbt for their own seats with tbe distinct knowledge that they were cure of tbeir scats if they coul.i defend tbem. It wns a purely selfish fight, tbere was tct'-Jing coble in it. Tbey hed Beted ibtir p .rt tolerably ■well, not having shown (oo much temper, beyond v. hat wos sufficient for virtuous indignation purposes. Their Btocewalling proceedings were net dignified, nor did tbey tend to heighten public reepect for Representative Institutions. The (03rci.n spoken of was not for tbe porpose of stifling opinion, but simply to step the superfluities of sp^eeb. When ihey had to eit from 2.30 p.m to 2.30 a.m li.teuiDg to Blow vapid utterances, alt( gather aimless and meaningless, dny after day, then some sort cf cure or coercion became absolutely bectsssry, The moviog of tbe previous question, as practised in tbe Lower House of C- n^re.s, was to bis mind tbe moat effective means for attaining ihe ol ject aimed at. It was thet eny member might move that tbe question i.c now put, and on that tbere could be co further debate, not even on the propriety of the motion, tbat th. qoeeiioD be now put, but a < eoUioo bid to be taken at on.c. If rigbijy u»ed bere it would tend to check the evil to •which they had be»n of l_te exposed. He trusted ihat their late experiences would lead tbem to consider this pciot seriously. Mr Macandrew reminded Sir W. Fox tbat the form of putting the previous quesioo without debate existed in the Assembly until 1863, and he believed it would h-.ve B-'Bin to be reStored to their cr_ ere. He urgea tbe Bonce now to proceed to the real buEineep. He thought the Govertrntnt was to blame for Lot b.intiiig down ite impcr'nnt meeeurfß earlier, but apart frcm th.t he ssk.d the Nc-ison meu.bere to euipend this siouewaliing, and allow the Hoose to proceed wiib the business The Nelson members weie really seeking to perpetrate an icjuctice. Mr Mie h_r, aii « he hid been an interested spectator of recent (-v-uts. He bad net jet taken auy part ia tbo stonewalling, lut he had eocao siolo bnd mortar wbich he tneaot to use at the proper time. He reminded the previous speaker of a similar transaction which he bimstlf tock part in it 1875-76, bud he caw no preet evil in the couree then pursued. They b.d sh.c refused to listen to situilar auvice to sbat Mr Macandrew coy/ gave tbe Neleon members. He thought tfce Nel_.n a-tu d-r. crved every coo-fiderbiiozj io (be efl.rt in wbich ihey were engaged, He reminded Bir W. Fox of truuiactions ot a not very scd_te kind iv whir h ho had taken part before he Ind .fen fit fo tone down to his pre-teu patriarchal propriety. He reminded bim of other performances in which he had taken

part, whicb, although not Btrictly speakiog a stonewalling process, were nevertheless calculated to delay business materially without any good result. He asked Sir W. Fox to recollect these facts in the fatherly advice he now saw fis to bestow upon the Hduse. He went on to argue that the motion for adjournment took precedence of all other motions or business, and contend ed that tbe interpretation of the Standing Orders proposed might not improbably be attended by serious consequences to the liberty of speech. Mr Andrews quoted from the Timaru "Herald's" special correspondent's telegram, where it was stated that he bad taken a petition io tbe proceedings opposed to tbe interests of Chriatchurch. He thought he had a ade himself clear thst he supported the Bill, and how anyone could make suoh a statement as tbat in the telegram referred to he could not possibly understand. He hod all along gone on under the assumption that the principle the NelsoD meo were contending for w«b not a true one They had for a long time eDJoyed what did not belong to them, and now thay complained at being asked to give it up. Mr Wakefleld complained that the metbod adopted by the Nelson members in moving the adjournment precluded members from expressing their views on tbe real question at issue. He bad up to a certain point felt some sympathy for them, but ia view of their new tactics, by which ail business wbs beiog shut out, tbat feeling could be no longer entertained. Their acion prevented tbe Houee fron discussing the real question at issue in a reasonable way. He supported the Speaker's interpretation of the Standing Orders, an 1 upon expressing a similar opinion on * previous occasion he was told the Speaker had considered the point Bnd come io a contrary conclusior, otherwise he sbould himself have raised it. Ha referred to previous instances upon which tha view of tba Order now contended for had been asserted and acted oc. H. controveted the opinion expressed that the Nelson trembera had shown s great amount of moral courage. Had they followed what ha believed ta be their own individual convictions, and, despite the demand made by their constituents, had refused to have anything to do with the stonewalling business, then he would have looked upon hat as true evidence of moral courage. Mr Hail contended that the decision orrived at by the Speaker was a sound onp, and went oo to criticise tbe Standing Orders in support of that view. He cautioned Nelson sgainst committing itself to the tender mercies ol its new found friends and allies, and reminded theaa thit these were the meu who ia the past had proposed to treat tb6m even more harshly. Mr Ballance argued sgainst the Speaker's ruling, and was interrupted by the 5*30 adjournment. On tbe Housa resuming at 7*30 p.m , h? Speaker ord:-red the Clerk to call od Orders of tbe D.y. Mr Rer yes rose and said he had a ceae of privilege to bring forward, but 'be C!e;k bavioj. real the Order of th-? D.y for going into Committee oa the R-prea.niatioa Bill, at once left the chfcir without noticing wbat Mr Reeves was saying. On going into Committee, Mr Sed don novel a new clause that only persons possessing tbe residential qunliGcitiGn? should be entitled to tbe franchise. Mr Reeves moved thafc progress be reported. He complained that the Speaker had left the chair while he waa drawing attention to a matter of privilege, and eaid it was monstrous that members should be choked off in such a way. He bad not intended to move any bogus motion or to delay business, bufc he wanted a Committee of Privileges appointed to consider certain transactions between himself and members of another place as to honorarium. That was a matter seriously affecting himself, and a Committee had been appointed in the Council. Mr Sheehan 'supported, and Mr Hull opposed reporting progress. A long discussion ensued, and the motion to reporfc progress was negatived by 42 to 11. In the discussion which ensued Sir Gr Grey said that if an absolute population basis was agreed to, and provision was made to confine each individual to a single vote in the Colony, he believed tbe Bill would pass that night, aDd he would be glad to expedite its progregp. Mr Hall said he would willingly accept any assistance ol the kind from the hon. member. Mr Sheehan urged tha Committee to fidjourn in order to permit of a grand meeting of the rival leaders on a common platform, and he suggested that the House should vote a Bum to paint an historical picture of tbe event.