MR CURTIS' SPEECH.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume XIII, Issue 257, 6 November 1878, Page 6

MR CURTIS' SPEECH.

(From Hansard.)

Sir, I rise to oppose the second rending of this Bill, and I do so on tho ground that, while it proposes to fix and determine the whole of the railways to be constructed throughout the colony during the next five years, and "while it proposes to appropriate the ■whole of the funds, if not more than the whole, which the honorable gentleman calculates that the colony will have at its disposal from oil possible sources for expenditure upon public "works during that period, it makes no provision whatever for the completion of the main trunk line of railway through the northern part of the South Island, nor for the extension of the railways in Nelson and Maryborough. The Minister for Public Works has stated that during the recess he will make some kind of exploration, with the view of ascertaining whether railway extension ia required in the districts I have referred to, The honorable gentleman has ako told us that the Government are not at the present time m possession of any data which would enable them to form an estimate of the cost of completing the main trunk line. When I first heard the honorable gentleman's Pnblic Works Statement I was under the impression that he was not aware there was any northern part of the South Island of New Zealaud ; he seemed to think that the South Island is bounded on the north by the Hurunui. ; but to-night he appears to have come to the conclusion that there are such places as Nelson and Marlborough in existence, and ho proposes during the recess to send somebody to explore that part of the country, with the view of ascertaining whether any advantage would be gained by making a railway through it. But, Sir, complete surveys of the main line from Nelson to Brunnerton have already been made, as may be seen in the Appendix to the Public Works Statement itself, where Mr Blair, the Engineer in Charge of the South Island, uses.these words : u One line from Nelbou to the Grey was surveyed verv fully by Mr Eocbeforfc." Mr Kocheforfc also gave an estimate of the cost of its construction ; but the Minister for Public Works seemed to have lost sight of that fact. And I would ask him how lie has managed to arrive at the probable cost of the line from Te Awamutu to New Plymouth. Has Bny survey of that line been made ? No, Sir; none whatever. And yet the honorable gentleraaD, in this Bill, uames a sum as the probable cost. Then there is the line from Amberley to Brunnerton, and lha probable coat of that line algo is put down in the Bill, while no survey has yet been made. Under these circumstances, I do not see why the honorable gentleman should con&iler it necessary to explore Nelson and Marlborough before he can give an approximate estimate for the main trunk line. I am very anxious that it should be distinctly understood that I am not pressing the completion of this main trunk line on the House simply with the view of getting money expended on the part of the country from which I come. I have Been statements in tie newspapers to the effect that such was my object; but I will say that I act as i am doing because I consider that the line to which I have referred should be constructed in preference to many of the branch lines named in the schedule of this Bill. I think that line, if constructed, would form an important part of tbe main trunk line, and I am sure that the colony would be benefited by its conatruction. The idea of constructing a railway from Nelson through the centre of the country to the Grey — the boundary of the Province of Westland — is by no means a new one. There is no line which has been so much before tbe Houee and the Public. Long before tbe Public Works system was instituted — before the Public Works proposal of 1870 were even thought of — thiß line was projected. In the year 1863 the Provincial Council of Nelson passed resolutions to the effect that the General | Governmentsbould be asked to empower the Provincial Government to borrow £300,000 wherewith to make a portion of that line — namely, from th>Totvn of Nelson to tbe Buller Valley. Those resolutions were carried in the Provincial Council by a majority of one ; and, in conatquence of the smallness of the majority, the General Government were perhaps justified in refusing to accede to the request of the Provincial Council. At the eame time, I may eay that a large section of tbe people of Nelson have always eet their faces against contracting debts, an i, as they were anxious to pay their way, they did not care to borrow. There were two parties in Nelson in thoae daye a party of progress and a party of prudence — the latter being at the time beaded by a gentleman who is now iu this House, the honorable member for Cheviot. .He held that it was undeeiiable to incur any liability (or ihe pur. pose of cartying on public woiki. Therefore it is uot surprising ihat ilie scheme was cot curried into iffeel; hut I have no hesitation in saying that, if the line had lon corstructeJ at that time, the Province of Nelson would not now be amongst the lees prohperous places in the colony. I believe that if tbe line had been constructed we should not require to impoit coals from New South Wales to lu extent at all events that we now do. I believe thut Country would bave been opened up wfjich would have produced eosl of the

best quality, similar to that which is obtained at Greymouth end other places on tho West Coasf, and »hnt it could have been obtained ia eufll .ient quantities to supply the whole of New Zealand, simply by making a line sixtyfive miles in length ; ami then we should uot have had to depend ou the neighbouring colonies for that article at any rate. When it was found that the money could uot ba obtained for the construction of this firat section of the line, a fresh scheme was proposed in the Provincial Council in 1865, and thiit wa3 to endeavor to gdt the liue constructed by a company in England, on the prin.'iph of granting to them a very large block of land iu consiJeratioa of the cost of (he railway. It was propo3pd to grant to any covnpaoy constructing the line not less thttn 10,000 acres par mile. A Bill, which I myself iuttoluced, was tiien p.issad through this House authorizing the construction of this line on these terms. The necessary instructions were forwarded to the a^ent of the province in London ; and, after negotiations with various persons he crime in contact with Mr Brogden, who was strongly dispose! to take up the line, and, in fact, 60 far entered iuto the matter lhat he undertook to construct one portion of the line; but the deed of agreement was not sij>ued. The Messrs Brogden were prepared to construct that portion of the line on the understanding that they should examine the counfry generally with a view to undertaking the whole of the line. They approved of the drfft agreement, enguged engineers to come out, and actually took their passages in a vessel leaving Lon.ion for the colony. At that time, however, the news arrived of (ha intention of the General Assembly to enter into a large scheme of railway construction, as proposed by Sir Julius Vogel in 1870 The Messrs Brogden at once withdrew their proposal, thinking they would enter into much larger and more remunerative contracts with theGeneral Government, and the consequence was that t^.e scheme which had so nearly approache 1 completion fell through. I may say that before Mr Brogden left the colony he told me himself he would have acted more in the interest of his Qrm if he had taken up the contract for the construction of the line from Nelson to the Grey, instead of entering into arrangements with the General Government. That was hfter he had seen the country and was in a position to judge of the nature of the undertaking. In IS6B, a very good survey 0/ the whole line was made, by order of the Provincial Government, by a gentleman whose abilities wiJI, I think, be recognised in this House —Mr Henry Wrigj. I feel certain members will acknowledge that^his authority would be equal to any that could be obtained with regard to this line. Ho spent m^ny months on the survey, and furnished the Provincial Government with a very elaborate report. That report alone would have been sufficient to enable the Minister for Public Worka ! to have made an estimate as to the coat of tbe line, had he thought proper to put an approximate sum for the purpose in the schedule to his Bill. I will quote a few words from that report to show that there are no engineering difficulties in the way. These are the words of Mr Wrigg : "I have to state that opon this route no real engineering difficulties exist." Again, "For so long a line, the work3 will be remarkably easy to construct, at a very moderate cost." Hi9 estimate of the probable cost of the whole line was £4,210 per mil?. That surely would have been something like a guide for the honorable gentleman. It is true that a subsequent survey, made by order of the General Government by Mr Rochfort, shows a different calculation ; it makes the cost something like double j but that calculation wss made upon a greatly-increaged Co9t of material, and abo upon a considerably-increased prica of labor. Even if the honorable gentleman had taken that calculation, it would, at all event?, have been something to go upon. I should s»y that the ruling gradient according to Mr Wrigg's survey in 1868, was 1 in 60, showing that a jood and cheap line could be made, Mr Rochfort, however, took a different route, and his r u!in" gradient is liu 35. When the Gene° ral Government, however took up the question of railway construction, aud undertook, by the scheme of 1870, to taka the matter into its own hands, tbe proposals made by Nelsen men were necessarily transferred to them. The power of acting iu the matter was left entirely in the hand3 of the Genertsl Government, and they proposed to the House that the scheme should be abandoned : that is to say, that the scheme of giving large blocks of land for the construction of the railway should be abandoned, and that the work should be taken over as a part of the main trunk railway of the Middle Island. In the R.ilways Act of 1873 this line was (lisiiDctly authorised and provided tor. Section 14 of lhat Act stsyg — [Mr Curtis here gives quotations from the Act, which we have already published ] The people of Nelson were satisfied wheD they found they weie included in the general scheme of railways, and t l iey waited with extreme patience, because they thought that the southern parts of the Mi.ldle Island being more ihickly populated and having more immediate uecceesify for railway communication, and there being, moreover, a greater prospect of immediate returns, it was ooly right that railways should

ba commenced thßre firs'. They waited patiently for these reasons, and I because ihey stiil believed that faith would be kept with them, and that, in accordance with the provisions of the Act of this Assembly, their own line woald, a3 aoou ns possible, bo construcied. Tbo Miuister for Public Works now says that in five or six years' time we raay begin to talk about this liue an;ain. That ia what his remit ks amount to. Five years' have already elapsed siaca the Act of 1873 was parsed, «nd yet we are asked to wait another five years before anything ' is even Ulk-id abouf. In the mamtime, while Nelsjn nod Marlborough arejleft entirely destitute of the bare 1 necessities of railway communication,!, other psrfs a c lo be provided, at thai' expense of the whole colony,!; with what I may call luxuries! in the way of railway comaiuut-'jj caiion. Branch Hoes are to be j made in some parta of the South, and, in other cases, even duplicate lines are to be constructed ; while the north part of the Islaud is to bo left absolutely without means of comcuuniwilh the rest of the colony. I do not think it can be reasonably expected that Nelson will ait quiat under a proposal so utterly unjust and so utterly unfair os that. Mot only was the construction of the main line opparently provided for, so far as this House ooiilrf do it, by f " The Railways Act, 1873," but in each Public Woiks Statement of Ministers from time to time the line has beau recognized us one to which the colony is pledged. In th-j succeeding year, 1874, the Minister for Public Works (Mr Kichardson) used these words ; — [Mr Curtis here quotes from the speeches of Mr Richardson aud Mr Ormond, when these two gentlemen respectively occupied the position of Miuiater for Public Works.] In 1873 the Government, sent down Mr Calcutt— a gentleman well known to honorable members from Otago as a good judge of land, and one whose reports could be depended upon — who was sent down toascertnin the quantity of land likely to be available upon this line. His report is in the Appendix to the Journals, aud 1 shell quote a few words from ii. He says, — " Below I append a short statement of roy approximate valua of the bmh an 1 open laud ia its present state, and under present circurastauees as to roads, &c: Say, 150,000 acres forest (after deducting the 6,000 sold or lease i), with the timber now growing thereon, at 15*, £100,000; pay, 22,341 acre3 open (after deducting 5,409 acres sold or leatei), at 203, £22,341; eay, 30,000 acres light soil and shingle, at 10=?, £15,000: total, £137,341." Then ho says that that valuation is of the laud in in then condition, without any means of access; and lie goes on to say, — " Supposing a railway to be in existence, aud running through lha country, I should say thut about twothirds of the forest laud would be increased in value threefod. Tho value of the open land 1 do not — for the reaeonß above mentioned — consider would be materially nltereJ, except, perhaps, in ihe vicinity of the Ahaura." I consider that those 200,000 acres may be fairly (a.'cululed to iiuva a value, as soon rs a railway is made through the country, of &.t least 50s per acre, That will make a sum of £500,000, or half a million of money. Ido not think that ia at all a high calculation. It must be remembered that there is gold-mining at points from one end to the ciher, and that land available for cultivation, and buah land also, assume n much greater value where that is the case than in other parts of the colony. In almost all cases where gold-raining ig pursued laud fit for agricultural purposes is excedingiy scarce, and therefore I think it is no exaggerated calculation to say that when a ralway is made this land will be worth £500,00'J. Then I consider that there would be, in addition, at least 500,000 acres of inferior hill land covered with bush, which would have a value of at least 10s »n acre as soon D8 a jaiiway is made. That makes another £250,000. Altogether I should say that the value of the land rendered accessible by the railway, and which will gradually come to market, ia something like £750,000. Bur, after all, Mr CaleuU'a calculation omitted the greatest part of the value of the country: in fact, he says so himself, in these worde: — " That the country is also very rich in minerals I think admits of no doubt, and, judging from the many observations made to me by the people living in the district, it is in its minerals that the true wealth of the country lies This question, however, formed no part 1 of my duty, nor do I assume any practcal knowledge thereon, anl I merely venture to give the gist of my opinion and observation for what it ia worth." It is in its mineral land that the value of that country really exists. Along the line of railway coal aeams are known to be cropping out — at the Owen, about sixty-five miles from Nelson, and at several other places in the valley of the Buller — not brown coal or lignite, but the best steam coal, of the sauie quality as that found at Grey moii tu aud Weatport. At Reefton, Bgain, algo on the line of the proposed railway, similar eoal occurs, and is used for the supply of the town, and for steam engines employed in working the reefs. Ia going through that country five years ago, I found that one of the 808nd8 bad beoo opened immediately on

the line of railway. A rain was digging it out and sending; if, nvvfi y upon pickhoises for the supply of blacksmiths lit a euull town ' ten cr twelve miles off. Honorable members may ask, if cosil of vr.lua exists why has not, somPthin^ more been done with I- ? But I ask, is it lensonable to expect that men will spend their means on exploring or mining, when ilipre ie no possibility of £jettin<j the material to market ? But, if this line were mrt.le, it would piß3 through a cohl nMd ol larjje extent and j/reat tfulue; an i it. is my belief thai it would ba tha best way of avoiding tho necessity of ijiMiiug coul from Newcastle. The value of the PortofNulson would bo cqnivolont f.o the "renter distance con I a would have to be canitj.l as compared with \Yustp:irt or Greytnouth. In addition | O coa 1 , which I believe woull :.ffaid a lar.^e tralHc for tue rr.il way, there is r. very consiJerubl-i trafiiji.--i co::r,oo(ioii wilh tho gold fields?, which would he lively iucrcas-r-j in the event, of communication buin^ opened. M-n of Ctipiiftl iu other parts of tha colony arc hurdly able to »t;t into tho country in which the greuin- put of the poldmiuhj£ id carried or. At any rutc, they will not tuke the trouble without a special motive. In tho iKi<.'li!;orhood of Reef; on there v.r\> n number of q jurtz reefs now being woiko.l, and the yield last your wn3 36,000 z.. valued r.t £140,000. No reef pavn iu that district at preseut which does not yield hatfanounco to (lie ton, wht-reas in Victoria h reef yielding 3dwt. is m-ide to nay, and is regarded as rich. I nra sure that a great, number of reefs now lying unproductive could ho worked if there were means of conveying men of capital throughout the country, and of transporting machinery nud ordinury supplies for ths miners. Thereare other rniuerulg well known t> exist, but which it is not worth any one's while to expioio as, present, because they are absolutely inaccessible. As the position aud quantity of those minerals are to sone uitt>nt uucrtuD, I shall not insist upon that point. I will rest ray cf.se ou co>l and gold, apart altogether fio:n the lar^e quantity of valuable forest, and open land referred to in Mr Calcutta reporf, and to which I have attach d a value, if the railway is constructed, of three quarl<ra of a millioß. I would point our, (hut there are no lines of railway which pay so well a3 mineral lines. The working expenses are generally at a minimum in comparison with the ! riffle results. The beat-paying line in this colony is the short mineral line betwepu Enii;nerton and Greymouth. That ig H much better paying line tlmu nny of the much-vaunted lines in Ou^o end Canterbury, the cost of woiking find up-keeping being only 51 pi;r ot-n t. of ihe irntHc receipts. I must say ; however, that lam not nt nil prepared to look upon the question of making railways exclusively us a ' coimn.ivial speculation. Wlieu railways are made by companies, 88 they are in England, ot course the oue tiling lo be looked nt is the amount of dividen is they will pay; but, in this count' y, out object is simply to make a better kind ot road for the purpose of opening aud stitllicg tho country, uud when wo make ordinary dray and carriii^e roada we do not expect them to uive any direct return. Of eonrse, in the case of railways, we provide the means of tr»ns- ' port, trucks, &c, and therefore we \ muet expect to be repm'd for tiiat. But, apart from that, it appears to mo thai we might fairly make railways without absolutely expecting them to pay the whole of the working expenses and the interest upon the capital expended; and that we might well be satisfied with the great indirect advantages which increase the revenue, and which inevitably flow from the improvement of means of communication and the cousequent increase of population and settlement, apart, altogether, from the advantages derived from tha sale of Crown lands. I remember that Mr Stafford, in a speech which he delivered upon the Public Works scheme in 1870, said that in his opinion many lines ought to be made ia the colony which probably would not pay working expenses and interest for tho next fifty yenrp. It was his opinion thai lines in many cases should be made simply on the ground of the advantage which would ba derived from diem in the shape of increased population and increased revenue. In 1871 the first section of tho line I urn advocating was agreed to by this House, am! the volo was passed for the line from Nelson to Foxhill. about twenty miles. Many people are under a missppreheesion with regard to thai line. They say that it leads nowhere and en Is twenty miles away from Nelson, in a bush. The reason simply is, that Sir Juliu3 Vogel agreed to aauke the first sectiou of this main line /or n length of twenty miles, and tha end of that twenty miles happened to be at Foxhill. "When the line was under consideration in the House, I stated distinctly thafc I accepted it simply as being the first section of tbe main trunk line, and that I did not thing it would do more than pay working expenses. Well, up to the present time it has paid working expenses, even under special disadvantages, because even tbe section of twenty miles baa not been completed. It has never been carried to the Porfcjof Nelson, which was part of the proposal, and it has never been extended to Foxhill, for it has not been carried over the river ; and this materially interferes with the traffic. The money spent upon that small portion of the main truuk line is tbe only expenditure which lias boon mado upon railways within

the Province of Nelson : that is, out of a sum of seven millions which has been expended on railways in the colony, only £150 000 has beeu expended in Kelson. It is now proposed to expend six millions more, and it is not intended to add ia any degree to the very small minimum of advantage in the shape of railway commenication of which Nelson Province is now possessed. It is true that thero has been a railway constructed in that province, at a cost of £ISO, 000 — the line from West port to Ngakawau. But for that line special security was taken by the Government. One hundred and fourteen thousand acres of conl field was given as security — laud which will be of very great value—as well as a large reserve in the town, for which a considerable reutnl is o' tained. Therefore, a* 1. have said, the only railway that has been constructed iu the Pfoviuciisl District of Nelson at colonial expense is tho first section of the main truukiine, a distance of twenty miles, afc a cost of £120,000. 1 do not expect or hope for a large expenditure on railways within the present year iu the out-districts. All that I urge is, that we shou'd not be shut out altogether from the rest of the colony — that we should not be excluded altogether from railway communication with the other portions of tbe South Island; and that the project of the main trunk line should not be tbrowu overboard. The mere proposal that there may be an extension of the line during the next five or six years is a proposal too much in the clouds: there is nothing of reality about it, and I d > not attach much importance to it. If there had been any real intention to continue the line it would have beeu included in the present proposals, and the Minister for Public Works would have indicated that he intended to go on with some portion of it, at all events, at once. Tliafc is what ought to have been done, and I think it is not to be expected that the people of Nelson will quietly sit down while they are denied advantages such as are given o all other parts of the colony, while at the same time they have to pay the same taxation as do other parts of the colony. They feel that they are, in fact, paying out of their own pockets for railways iu other parts of the colony, which are entirely denied to them. I am sure the House will agree with me that it is not a judicious or polite thin"to leave any portion of tbe population under a feeling of a very heavy and undeserved grievance. In speaking upon this subject I leave it to the representatives of Marlborough to advocate their own cause. I have beeu advocating the cause of the particular district with which I am more distinctly connected, and a portion of which I represent. I feel, and the people of Nelson feel, coneorued for the District of Marlboi'ougli, which has beeu leffc'jn the same positTon as i\ r elson, and we will assist in getting the people of that district; something like equal rights and justice ia this matter. The affording means of communication by railway between the Port of Nelson and the iutorior of the province is a matter of l>fe aud death to the people of that' province. It is impossible that the district can. progress without it. Until that province has railwav communication with other parts of the colony it is impossible that it can progress equally with other pirfcs of the colony. I make these remarks upoa this Bill in the hope that the Minister for Public Worku will reconsider that question, and see that he ought to do something in the direction indicated, and show an absolute intention of going on with the construction- of tbe main trunk liue during the- present year — that he will show, that he is not, at all events, obstinately determined to treat that part of the country with the injustice with which" it is now treated in the Bill as ifc at present stands. I beg to move, That this Bill be read a second tine this day six months.