HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume XII, Issue 269, 13 November 1877, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington, Monday. The House met at 2*30 this afternoon. A new Bill, entitled the Civil List Act Amendment Bill, was introduced by Mr Larnach. Sir G. Grey, moved the adjournment of the House till 7*30, to enable members to .attend the funeral of the iate Mr Alfred Ludlam, a former member of the Houae, and an old colonist who had rendered valuable service to the colony. Mr Stafford seconded the motion, and said he would be glad to see the adjournment made uutii to-morrow as a mark of respect to the memory of the deceased. Sir G. Grey could nofc consent to a longer adjournment at the present stage of the session. The Speaker then left the chair till 7*30. The House resumed afc 7*30. MrSheehan laid ou the table a telegram from Major Te Wbeoro to Sir G. Grey stating that Tawhaio was collecting food for an expected visit from Sir G. Grey. In reply to Major Atkinson, Mr Larnach said he would give notice before bringing down another Imprest Supply Bill. Major Atkinson moy.ed the adjournment of the privileges debate for a week. The whole

argument had been fairly placed before the Governor and replied to; therefore there was no reason for going on with the debate. The question was one of constitutional law not one affectiHg the privileges of the House, and the time of the House would be better occupied in discussiug the Land Bill than in discussing this subject. Mr Stout thought Major Atkinson was treating Mr Travers badly. He was evidently afraid that if the debate went on Mr Travers' motion would be carried, and he would be sent for to form a Ministry instead of Major Atkinson. If the debate was adjourned for a week, the Houso could not reply to what was before it on this case, aud an ex parte statement would go Home by the mail next week. Major Atkinson's anxiety to get on with the business now came rather strangely after his recent threat to obstruct all business till his no-confidence motion was discussed. It was very unkind of Major Atkinson to check Mr 1 ravers' ambition to become a leader of the Opposition.

Mr Gisborne would have supported the adjournment if a mail did not leave for England in the interval; but he objected altogether to the view set forth by the Governor, that the House could not determine the extent to which the Miuistry were responsible to Parliament. He objected to any such question being referred to the Secretary of State. The House was perfectly competent to decide on such a question. Had Mr Travers moved his motion he would have moved an amendment respectfully but firmly asserting the right of the House to determine for itself the constitutional relations of Ministers to Parliament, and objecting to refer to the Secretary of State any such question. The views advanced by the Governor were dangerous to the first principles of Constitutional Government, and if an adjournment wonld interfere with the House asserting these principles he would oppose it.

Mr Reynolds opposed the adjournment. Messrs Wakefield and Wood opposed and Mr Brandon supported the adjournment. Mr Travers defended his conduct as consistent throughout. TheJHouse had asserted its privileges, and the question now was regarding the constitutional position of Ministers. It was this question the Governor wished to refer to the Secretary of State. With the House the Secretary of State could have nothing to do.

Mr Sheehan said the adjournment was sought for because Major Atkinson found his party would not follow Mr Travers. He strongly opposed an ex parte statement of the case being referred home. He condemned Mr Travers' motion as inconsistent. If the House referred its privileges to outside authority to suit party purposes, the first step would be taken to destroy constitutional freedom. He defended the motives of Ministers.

Mr Hodgkinson thought the Governor's proposal to refer the matter to the Secretary of State was a fresh breach of privilege. Sir George Grey strongly condemned the reference to a foreign authority. He would be ashamed to countenance such a proposal. If the Governor was entitled to refuse Ministers' advice because a want of confidence motion was pending, constitutional government was at an end. The Governor contended that he was responsible only to the Secretary of State when he should be so to the Queen and to the laws and constitution of the country he was governing. Of the Secretary of State the House knew nothing. Another unconstitutional act was the Governor's reference to the Governor of New South Wales. Constitutional liberty was in danger if Governors, disregarding their proper advisers, were to consult each other and form an oligarchy, guided by a code of laws aud precedents of their own. The House should assert its own right to determine all questions affecting its privileges, for great principles were at stake. Major Atkinson denied that he was countenancing any appeal to an outside authority, but said that Sh* George Grey had done so. The motion to adjourn the debate was then carried by 38 to 37.

Mr Gisborne then moved that it be resumed on Friday, urging the necessity of the House sending its view of the case home by the same mail as the Governor's memos. This proposal was negatived by 44 to 27. A long debate ensued as to when the debate should be adjourned to. Mr Stout attributed the conduct of the Opposition to a desire to get the Canterbury ruu clauses of the Land Bill passed, aud for this they were bartering their privileges. Maters had now come to a mere faction fight in the House, and the sooner the country was appealed to the better." He strongly condemned the attempt to politically ostracise Sir G. Grey because of his liberal views and opposition to cliques and ranks of all kinds. After considerable further discussion Mr Shrimski moved the adjournment of the House.

The Speaker pointed out'that if this was carried the matter would drop altogether. Mr Travers defended his conduct, and condemned that of Ministers, whose position in retaining office was unconstitutional. He opposed their party now because he had been deceived when he joined them, as it was on an absolute promise that Sir G. Grey should not be Premier. He warmly eulogised Sir G. Grey'a past services to the colony, but objected to him as Premier. He did not intend to move the motion of which he he had given notice because the leader of his party desired him not to.

Mr Stout at great length replied to Mr Travers, pointing out the inconsistencies in his various speeches. He characterised the alleged agreement to banish Sir George Grey from office as a conspiracy. It was evident the only fault alleged was that he had saved his country and deserved well'of it. What Mr Travers had said would show the couutry that the present contest wag not one of priuciple but purely of personal antagonism to a man wbo had rendered distinguished services to the State.

Mi* Rees strongly urged the necessity for at once referring the motion at issue to the decision of the country. After further discussion, in which Messrs Sutton, Gisborne, and Joyce took part, Mr Reid said he thought too much was being made of a* very small matter. Had the privileges of the House been endangered, and Ministers resigned in their defence he would have supported them. He thought Ministers deserved censure for recommending Mr Wilson and publishing the papers. No Secretary of State was likely to attempt to interfere with their privileges and liberties. The House was not in auy way attacked or "inf ringed and the matter should drop. ' At 12*40 the motion for the adjournment of the House was agreed to and the motion therefore lapses.

Ihe following is a list of tlie names in the division for the adjournment of the debate moved by Major Atkinson : —

Opposition, 38: Messrs Atkinson, Bowen, Beetham, Brandon, Burns, Curtis,' Douglas, Fitzroy, Gibbs, Henry, Hunter, Hursthouse, Johnston, Kennedy, Lumsden, Mauders, M'Lean, Moorhouse, Morris, Murray- Aynsley' Ormoud, Reid, Richardson, Rollestoh, Rowe' Russell, Seymour, Sharp, Stafford, Stevens, Sutton, Teschmaker, Travers, Whitaker Wason, Williams, and Woolcock.

Government, 37: Messrs Baigent, Ballance, Banff, Brown, J. C. Bryce, Bunny Delatour, Dignan, Fisher, Gisbourne, Grey! Hamhn, Hislop, Hodgkinson, Joyce, Kelly, Larnach, Lusk, Macandrew, Macfarlane, Montgomery, Murray, Nahe, O'Rorke, Pyke Rees, Reynolds, Seaton, Shcehau, Shrimski, Sto^ Swanson, Takamoana, Thompson, Tole, Wakefield, and W. Wood.