HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume XII, Issue 215, 11 September 1877, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington, Monday. The House met at 2-30 this afternoon,when the debate ou the Hawke's Bay land transactions was resumed. Sir George Grey gave notice that if a Committee was appointed it should be instructed to enquire into the charges made against himself and Mr Ormond. Mr Cox made a personal explanation. In ISG7 Sir G. Grey first urged him to come North and invest in laud. During the session of 18G8 Mr Henry Russell and himself had several interviews with Sir G. Grey in reference to leasing 250,000 acres south of Taupo. At the first interview he told Sir G. Grey fully their plans; and at the second interview, a few days after, Sir G. Grey asked whether it would interfere with their plans if he joined in the venture. They said there was no objection. Plans were fully discussed, and Sir Q. Grey urged that due provision iiiust be made for the native owners. At the third interview, a few davs after, Sir G. Grey asked to be allowed to withdraw from the matter, as he did not wish to give his enemies any opportunity of accusing him of any improper conduct. After this Mr Russell and himself went on with the negotiations, and Sir G. Grey furnished him with letters to the native owners. Sir G. Grey had no further connection with the matter. He never entertained any fidea of Sir G. Grey being corruptly conuected with the transaction. Any such idea was an entire mistake. Sir G. Grey never knew who were the members of the proposed company, whose project was, for various reasons, abandoned in 1869; and when he heard Sir G. Grey talking about the impropriety of any man holding suo acres of land, he thought him inconsistent, and mentioned the facts to several members. The whole of the letters he had obtained from Mr Locke referred to this transaction, with slight exceptions. He had given Mr Ormond permission to use them with Mr Locke's consent, though had lie been consulted he would have objected to the letters being used iii the way they were; but such charges as had been made against Mr Ormond were calculated to make a man's tongue run away with his reason. Mr Macfarlane thought the Supreme Court the proper tribunal to enquire into the points raised. He therefore moved the previous question. Mr Hursthouse said he had heard from Mr Cox last session what he had now stated. I Mr Stout expressed regret that Mr } Ormond had not withdrawn 'his accusations, winch were completely contradicted by Mr Cox. Mr Ormond considered that all ho had said had been fully confirmed by Mr Cox. He had been blamed for making a bitter speech, but he had suffered frequent and gross provocation, and nothing he had said was so bad as what Sir G. Grey and Mr Ilees had constantly said. He felt bound to reply and retort to the constant repetition of accusations which had killed Sir Douald M'Leau. He objected to the appointment

of a Committee to go behind the Supreme Court, but would like to see a . Coininission appointed. Mr Bunny urged the production of the letters, as Mr Cox's statement failed to bear out the impression arising from Mr Ormoad'3 speech. '• ,<■•-• Mr Ormond agreed with Mr Bunny. Mr BariE defended Mr Rees, aud condemned the intemperate tone of the debate. Mr Luak expressed regret at Mr Ormond not withdrawing his statements, which were proved to be unfounded. He supported the appointment of a Committee. Mr Bowen justified Mr Ormond'a speech by the gross provocation the Government aud himself had received. The House should not interfere with cases pending before a Court of law. Mr Hodgkinson thought the country would believe the charge true if the Government stifled enquiry. Mr Woolcock thought the charges must be inquired into, but not by a Committee. Mr Montgomery thought Mr Cox's statement completely exonerated Sir G. Grey, and that no previous provocation justified Mr Ormond's speech made deliberately in cold blood. The debate was interrupted by 5-30. . Tuesday. On the House resuming Sir G. Grey said that Messrs Cox and Russell's proposal to lease the Taupo land was a perfectly legal and legitimate transaction. He had, at the request of the native ownors, suggested to many people to lease land in the interior for 21 years as runs. . He did not in the least remember the conversation recounted by Mr Cox, but had no doubt that Mr r Cox had correctly stated his impression, but he was equally sure that it was u mistaken one. There was a misunderstanding somewhere. At the most it amounted to his having for a few days contemplated becoming a partner with other gentlemen in a perfectly fair venture, but determining not to do so for fear of his acdons being misconstrued. He had been accused of having extorted a bribe to use his influence, and such a charge demanded an exhaustive enquiry, The letters should be produced, all parties being now quite willing. Pie believed it would be found that the only reference to him was in the words "The Governor, for State reasons, declines to take any part. Some other moneyed men will take his place." He desired to have the charges made against him fully investigated, and the evidence placed on official record. Mr Rees had been surprised at the tone of the debate, and would not imitate it. If Messrs Ormond and Whitaker did not know the falsity of the charge|about his absconding from his creditors they ought to. He denied it absolutely. Through over-speculating in mining, and being made responsible for debts not his own, he had been driven into bankruptcy, but had passed through without loss of credit, and ever since every penny he had made beyond what wa3 absolutely required for his family was devoted to paying off just claims, and he hoped that in another year or so all would be paid. Sir G. Grey wanted none to do dirty work, and would not ask him if he did, and he was not elected for that purpose. He reprobated the attacks made on Mr Henry Russell, and was astonished at the charge of extorting a bribe beiflg made against Sir G. Grey, without the truth being first ascertained. Mr Cox's statement showed it to be absolutely unfounded. He defended his action regarding the native claims to vote in Hawke's Bay. He dwelt at length on the nature of the Hawke's Bay land transactions, and denied that the actions had been withdrawn, although Mr Sheehan'a clients had been bribed to withdraw them. There were plenty of cases for a Committee to enquire into without interfering with those pending in Court. The refusal to grant a Committee would cause general suspicion throughout the colony. The House then divided on the " previous question." Ayes: 34. Noes: 41. The motion therefore dropped. In Committee on the Education Bill, clauses 34 to 38 were passed. A long discussion took place, and numerous amendments were proposed in clause 39, but all were rejected and the clause passed. The House adjourned at I*s a.m.