HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume XI, Issue 227, 15 September 1876, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington Thursday. •Upon the House meeting this afternoon, Air Wason asked far leave to move without notice, " That the Speaker issues writs for tlie election of the different members of the Miuistry," but was ruled out of order by the Speaker. Sir George Grey moved, as a question of privilege "That no further business be taken until the report of the Disqualifiation Committee be considered." The Premier moved that the report be considered at once. MrDeLatour asked if the members interested in the matter were allowed to remain in the House while the discussion was on, and quoted May. The Speaker oTcrmlcd the objection. "Upon the report being read Sir George Grey moved that the House concur in it. Air G. M'Lean protested agains. the report Leiag summarily adopted. Though legal opinions were given that the Ministry infringed the Disqualification Act, other opinions said -they had uot. In any case they had not infringed the spirit of the Act, and whatever infringement there had been was inadvertently done. He was surprised at the .great proconsul taking advantage of such a paltry quibble to unseat the Ministry, after ■oil his claims to patriotism. Mr Keic. considered the report altogether 4<3<S meagre. It ought to have contained something which would have guided the House in coming to decision. ' A long discussion then ensued upon the nature of the report. Mr Seymour said he tried to get the word •"technically" introdnoed but failedj and

another amendment to make it clear that the infringement related only to travelling allowance, but was defeated by a narrow majority. The Premier said the Act was passed to preserve the purity of the Parliament, and not to entrap members by a technicality. If any of tbe House thought the Act had been violated from corrupt motives, then the point became a constitutional question, and should be argued out fairly but no one thought that. He moved an amendment that it was expedient'to pass an Indemnity Bill forthwith. Mr Rolleston said the better way would be to withdraw the Premier's amendment, and add to the original motion, " That the House concur in the report, but do not think circumstances justify Ministers in vacating their seats." Mr Stout said, no matter what the intention of Ministers, the Act was violated in letter and spirit. He endeavored in Committee to make the report more specific, but those who now complained of its baldness were those who defeated him. Mr Stafford thought that Mr Rolleston's recommendation shonld be accepted. Mr Bowen spoke of a somewhat similar occurrence in the English Parliament, only much stronger, and pointed out that the leader of the Opposition in Great Britain would not resort to such tactics as Sir George Grey now resorted to, as public opinion would not permit of it,— meaning Sir George Grey's taking proceedings in the Supreme Court. Sir George Grey overhearing Mr Pyke use the word "discreditable," raised a point of order. The Speaker rebuked Mr Pyke, who for some time decline to retract the word. He said he did not intend Sir George Grey to hear, and merely uttered it as an ejaculation to himself. The exchange of words soon led Mr Pyke to use these words: "It is discreditable for any member of this House to place himself in the position of a common informer." These words were taken down, and after some warm debate, Mr Pyke expressed regret at having been led into such intemperate expressions, and at being overheard by Sir George Grey. He then withdrew and the House proceeded to discuss the matter. Mr Wason moved that Mr Pyke be censured Mr Montgomery wanted him to apologise to Sir George Grey. Mr Russell said Sir George Grey had hundreds of times used the words "shameful" aud " discreditable," and never was called to order. Mr Wason said they were only used in a Parliamentary sense. Just as it was time for the Speaker to leave the chair, Mr Wason's amendment was negatived by 35 to 22. Further proceedings were interrupted by the hour for rising. Friday. On the House resuming at 7.30, Mr Stout continued the debate on Mr Pyke's expressions, which he deprecated. The Premier objected to singling out this one instance, but at the same time he asked the hon. member to withdraw the expressions. Mr Swanson insisted upon every one who transgressed obeying the Speaker's orders, and Mr Pyke had refused to do that. After further remarks, the motion censuring Mr Pyke was passed, and he reentered the Chamber, and when apologising, said he hoped his martyrdom would be the means of inducing so'iter language in debate than had prevailed hitherto. Mr Bowen resumed his remarks in defence of the position of the Ministry. Mr Rees, who followed, took an opposite view, and argued that the Ministry had lost their seats, and ought to go again before tl eir constituents, and unless they did that, they would go from bad to worse, and entangle themselves in inextricable difficulties. This was what should have been done at once. Mr Whitaker went at some length into the argument, the gist of wh'c'. was that when he gave his opinion on the matter he was positive he was right, and the more he examined the question the more was he convinced that he had .taken the correct view, and he would like nothing better than to fight the ma.ter out. Despite the opinions given to the contrary, he quoted several precedents from the House of Commons to show thai; that House and the New Zealand House also were the sole judges of their own questions of privilege, that it rested with them and not with any committee to decide whether the seat of any member of the House had been vacated. Mr De Latour strongly opposed this view. Mr Sharp said one fallacy underlay all the arguments on the other side, namely, that it was assumed that all the Ministerial seats had been vacated, while the committee only said they were of opinion the seats had been vacated. He did not want the business of the country thrown into confusion, but wanted the Indemnity Act passed. Several members having spoken pro and con, Mr Ballance referred to the sittings of the committee to show that a great divergence of opinion prevailed at that committee, but that the whole tenor of their debate went to show that merely a technical error had been committed, and that the punishment of sending Ministers again before their constituents was too much for the offence. After a good deal of discussion on each side Sir G. Grey asked for an adjournment so that he might be enabled to make a suitable reply to certain attacks made upon him, and explaining that he was too weary then to do so. This was opposed by the Government, and tlie resolution was passed and lost by 36 against 24. The Premier's amendment was then about to be put, when Mr Sheehan moved an amendment that the Indemnity Act would not exempt them from the money penalties, and t .at the committee should be instructed to reconsider their report. The Government opposed this, and after coniderable discussion Mr Ballance moved his amendment which was in substance that none of the Ministerial seats we.c vacant. Mr Stout tr'ed to move an amendment intercepting this, but was ruled out of order. Mr llees then took the floor at 3 o'clock and kept up the debate till 6.10, when the Speaker said he would resume the chair at 10 a.m. During that time there were various interruptions, and several attemps were made io get strangers removed from the body of the House and gallery but unsuccessfully. -•45 p.m. At ten the House resumed, and Mr Rees continued, admittedly speaking against time. There was just a sufficient number of members to form a quorum. Mr Rees or his party will probably speak till 2*30, when another day's sitting is supposed to commence. The Speaker wili then formally open the House by prayers, aud, after the usual preliminary business, it is understood that Ministers will ask the House to dispose of the disqualification resolution, when it will again be competent for the Opposition to continue the discussion, and stave off the division, which, it is said, will result in a considerable majority for the Government.