POST-SESSIONAL SPEECHES.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume IX, Issue 240, 9 October 1874, Page 2

POST-SESSIONAL SPEECHES.

MR. : GURTIS AT') 'THE.' iROVTNCIAL ; ; ; :'« - HALL.:.-;!. '',-■' ... In response, to Mr Curtis' irmfatibh r to the electors of the, town there was ,a ' moderately good attendance at the ; Provincial Hall last night,- when the chair was taken; by Mr Hunter Brown. Mr Cortis said that he had asked them to meet that evening in order that he might gire an account of the proceedings during the

{For continuation see fourth page.)

late BesMdn of the General Assembly, and of the part he had taken in them. Some people thought that it was better that a representative should meet his constituents prior to the session in order that he might gather their views upon the measures likely to be introduced, but he thought it preferable that they should meet after the session, as it was impossible to tell what business would be brought forward. Of this the late session afforded a notable example, for no one had any idea that the important measures that had occupied so large an amount of their attention would be introduced. They had been led to believe this both by the utterauces of Ministers during the recess as well as by the Governor's speech in opening Parliament, and yet two measures of the greatest importance had bten laid before the House, .Before proceeding to matters of local interest, he would first of all deal with these. The firsfrwas the State Forests Bill, which provided for the preservation of existing forests, and the planting of new ones. Papers showing the evil consequences of the rapid oisappearance of the forests and the [neglect to replace them were laid upon the table, and their contents met with universal approval. But in the Bill was a special provision which did not find tavor with the majority. This was to the effect that two millions of acres, either of forests or lands suitable for planting, shou.d tie handed over to the Colonial Government. "The quantity was not stated in the aggregate, but put in a less alarming shape^ namely, that three per cent, of the lands should be placed under the control of the General Government. .Now, in Nelson that would mean 2u0,000 acres, and to with- ' draw that amount from Provincial control | would harethel etfdfct of^utterly destroying I all' chauce of deriving any fund from the sale of lands. True, those siles were very small just now, but they would certainly increase us roads and railroads were made. So long as provincial .institutions were to exisc it was desirable that they thould be continued in a state of efficiency, but this would not be the case if they were to be deprived of so large a portion of their best lands. A strong opposition was offered to -this clause, and it was ultimately withdrawn by the Government. The Bill then passed in a comparatively harmless form. It provided for an expenditure of .£lO,OOO W year for the department for keeping up a staff to look after the existing forests, aud to do something towards creating new ones. It was felt generally that the Bill wasintrbduced for the mere purpose of placing larger funds at the disposal ot the General Government, and for that reason was opposed, i Hal a direct proposition for doing this been" brought forward, it would probably have been favorably entertained, but Abe House objected to granting ihcse mnds under the pretence of preserving the forests of the colooy. One clause in particular showed that Ae^reservation'of forests was altogether jgjijbfijdiary to'nhe queston of revenue. That * was the for lading out townships not exceeding 2000 a;:res— or twice the size of Kelson— which were to be offered for sale. Now "anything better calculated to ensure the ' 'rapid destruction of the forests than to pbv-e townships iri : the centre of them it was difficult to conceive. Such a provision could never fore been made with a view to the preservation of forests. The other matter of unpoftanqe, was the. abrtition of the provincial, form, cf Government in the North bland, while no mention was made of what was to be substituted for it, Mr Yogel, in the speech he. made in introducing the resolution, ' only Teferring in a vague manner to Govern""^n'ent'agents'and a system of road Boards. It was the feeling of a considerable number of members that such, a measure should only , _ have,! been- brought forward after great 5 delibejratipn,,*!^ not merely . because the Premier had quarrelled with one of the North Island Superintendents. An amendment to ' the dfect'that it was not desirable to con'„'''aider the question that session was defeated, • 'and the" original resolution carried by a large • The abolition of provinces in the J North Island of course meant a similar fate -for .those in the' South sooner or later, and triat ijrasa question on which the constituencies .certainly had a right to be consulted. For fiis own part he had always been of opinion th»t Provincial institutions were : not to last for ever. Indispensable though they were at •*• first? owing to the manner in which thecoun- : try was settled, they womld 1 cease to be a : # *ecesaitj« as facilities for communication by if steamers, railroads, and telegraphs, increased, • : when ; a ! government such as that of Great Britain <fould be adapted to our wants. But ! 'befoTef'dbing away with the existing state of -'•' thingj he» wanted to know what was to fol- •. J low, and that was a point upon which the resolution gave noliint whaterer. A motion for ,a dissolution was defeated, but the opposition to the measure drew forth from the Government & declaration that they meant to *" establish some lsdrt of form of 'local' Govern--J ' x Hifenfc't6 be endowed with substantial revenues, I :t*ough it was not stated whei c those revenues •>■> *ere ! t6'cbme from. [Mr Curtis then read extract from Mr Vogel's speech in • f »'lB6g, ! just before his joining the Ministry, on '■<• 'the ebolitiori of provinces, in which he spoke : n '-' 'Bfftjng^y! in- favor of Provincial institutions J'»aba pointed out the danger of tampering with - the constitutioo.] With reference to the question of tavingexpensj by having one central Government, he (Mr Curtis; thought •^^thaf it ? waa a great mistake, and that the < * 'additional time that the Assembly would have ' to sit would -cost more than all the Provincial. .Governments pnlrtogether, wbile the expense *" i? df adfninfsfratioa would be greatly increased *° ! *£'*& lHfg« BtafE of officials that would be ** r^tfiredJ" He would have been more disposed '" ! tb'voWfijr the total abolition of provincialism than for doing away with it in one Island only, thereby necessitating two constituencies ■\ t for onecolony, still he should want to know * 'what was to be substituted for it, and thought '* ■*''• the people should require to know it too. He would now ask them to look at the question "I" from* a local point of view Tne first effect ,pf sweeping away the provinces would "' it that the debts of the provinces would be made a colonial debt, »nd the next that 1 i the' Public Works loan would become a colonial charge instead of being charged to the provinces in which the works were carried oat, The total of the provincial debts was ... .Sjr.jnilUoas.out of which Nelson owed only j. : Jsti6jono,and the result of doing away with „ -the provinces would be that we actually should . n Jo'ae £400,000, the liability for which would be added to that we bad already incurred in our -Bmall loan. The interest upon this wbuid be !;.• ,£lO,OOO » year, which Nelson would have to „ ..payforOtagoand Canterbury's debts. For railways £5,575,000 had been voted, of which only £100,000 came to Nelson. Her share of . ; . that amount, whan provincialinatitutioas wtre . t abol^he^ . would be £34u,000, involving ihteresc to the amount of £17,000 a year. TakiDg the two together the people of this „ . province would have to pay at the very least ' ah additional £'25,000 a year without deriving •" toy cdrrespbJiflg advantage. The amount of debt in other parts was £12 a head; here it was £3. The amount expended on public rfw works elsewhere was £20 & liead; here it was <i Mioly £5.' These were considerations that sifpuld.be; well weighed before desiring a change. It might be said thit compensation j', wojiybe granted for thii. but he did not think so. Nelson stood alone ia this matter while, ths other provincea had |borrowed , largely, and very little sympathy would be shown us, nor would there be any hope of compensation or an equitable adjustment of .finance.' He would at ouce say most positive j ' 'Chat; unless some adjustment could be obtained '^■.WwoulA-cOßtiQue t<> oppose the abolition of Q J tKe primaces. He had not referred to the local tendencies of the' measure in the House, J)£c«u4e; hej feit . he should meet with no tympathy, but he thought the people of Nel-

son should be made aware of the ground upon which thiy stood. To thow the determination of the Government to press and hurry on the change, ho would state that they had positively refused to circulate the Bill providing for the new state of things before the next meeting of the Assembly, and in this they were supported by a large majority of the House. In the calculations he had made he had left out the cost of the coal railways now being construct d iv the province as, for these, special security had already been given; and also the £50,0C0 voted for public .works, which of course would make h slight difference. It might be said that the peop'e would not feel this demand upon them, as ie would not assume the f.>»m of direct taxation, but they would feel it in another way, namely, that they would receive no money for educational purples, or for Road Board* mi Public Works, all of which would have to be provided for by rates locally raised. The tax-gatherer would not call for the money for the interest upon loins, but the money would he withdrawn, and he would have to call for ie for other purpoa s. At present, after deducting the interest upon Us small debt, Nelson received £13/ OD a year, which would at once be stopped, ai more ihau double lint amount would be re rt quired from her to pay the interest on other people's debts After touching upon some of tbe measures of minor importance, Mr Curtis said that he should like to reftr to the speech recently made by- Mr Luckie,. who had indulged in some attacks upon him, to some of which he felt bound to reply. Mr Luckie had alluded to the Bill introduced by him (Mr Curtis) for raising a loan of £ 50 0"0 »9a mere cham, and an attempt to deceive the people. • This was equivalent to saying that Nelson had no right to borr >w money, and, coming as it did from one of their own members, was calculated to do the province much harm. For lug part he thought that such an amount could be very .W£ll devoted to public works, and it .was of the more importance that they should get it in face of the possible abolition of the provinces. He had explained to Mr Vogf 1, in an interview he had with him, that he would be satisfied to re eive it at the rate of £50,000 a year, and had reison to suppose that the Premier would not oppose it, but Provincial borrowing was disallowed by the Upper House. He believed that it was owing to that Bill which Mr Luckie had called a sham that Ihey had secured the £50,000 voted, and he saw no reason why a similar sum nhould not be obtained next year. Mr Luckie had also referred to what had fallen from him in the House with regard to hiß position in the Government of the province. He wished to offer some exp anation upon this point. The Provincial Council had, in its last session, passed an Act providing that the • Superintendent should act only with the advice and consent of the Executive. To this, althongh he had the power to veto it, he had assented, as it was carried by a large majority and there was no strong expression of public opinion against it. Hiving done so he felt bound in honor to act up to it and to give it a fair tria'. The intention of the Bill was to establish responsible Government, which meant thattheSuperintendentwastooccupyaposition similar to that of tbe Governor of the colony. He was divested of all responsibility, and was simply to act with the advice and consent of the Executive, »nd to put his hand to the documents required to make their actions legal. With respect to dismissing the Executive because they decided upon measures of which he did not .approve, what would be said if the Governor adopted such a course with the Colonial Executive, and he contended that under the new Act he was in precisely the same position. Had he acted otherwise than. he had done, he would merely have been obtaining for himself a reputation for unfair dealing, in first assenting 10 an Act and then refusing to carry it out. Referring to Mr Luckie's speech again, he wished to state that he was not willing to accept the position laid down by him for the Province of Nelson. He was not prepared to allow that she was a pauper because she wanted to borrow money for public works, any more than that the colony was a pauper because it went into the English money market to raise loans, or that the Koad Boards were paupers because they received money from the General and Provincial Governments It was a most unfounded imputation that Nelson was in the position of a pauper because she wanted to borrow money, and if they wanted reasons for the abolition of theprovinces let them find better ones than that. Mr Lucki'e had stated most emphatically that the land fund should belong to the colony, but he forgot to tell them that three weeks previously he had registered his vote in the House in favor of the compact of 1856 being retained intact, and of Otago and Canterbury continuing to enjoy their land fund. He (Mr Curtis) believed that that compact should be maintained bo long as the provinces it affected continued to exist, but the moment provincial boundaries were done away with the necessity for the compact ceased, and the land iund should be made colonial revenue. That, oi course, would favorably affect the position of Nelson under the new order of things. Mr. Luckie had further attacke 1 tbe mismanagement and mistakes in connei tion with the Ga? and Waterworks, but he was prepared to say that no worlc in the whole colony had proved a greater success than the latter, whilr, as to the Gasworks, he knew of no fault to be found with them. The Wellington Gasworks were not to be compared with ttoae of Ne'son What was there to complain of ? Did the supply fall short ? Was the quality bud ? [A Voice : I beg your Honor's pordon, but how about last Saturday night ?] Mr. Curtis then referred to the large sum of £90,000 lying to the credit of the Timaru and Gladstone Bo r i, as being a strong argume it against the localisation of land revenue, which he regarded as a great mistake. He expressed his approval of the Qualification of Electors Bill, which was to extend the franchise to all ma'e aduits after a residence of six months iv the colony, but thought that one or two years' residence should be required in order that the electors might gain a good knowledge of the affairs of the eclony. Mr. Curtis, having expressed his readiness to answer any questions, eat down amid much applause in reply to Mr Hooper, Mr Curtis said that he could give no farther information than bad already appeared in the newspaper* relative to the West Coast railway. Air Haddow wished to know if there was any probability of a contract being let for. the termination of the Foxhill line at this end. Mr Cobtis believed that everything was in training for extending the railway to the port, but Mr Votjel was certainly carrying out his promise that the line should be pioceeded with leisurely, Mr Haddow proposed: " That the time had arrived for the abolition of Provincial Governments, and that some other simpler and cheaper form of local Government be established in their stead." Some delay ensued before a seconder was forthcoming. Mr Blanche: No one likes to second it without knowing what is to follow. Mr Adam would second it. and chance it. A Voice: Oh I he doesn't know what he's talking about. Air C. .F. Watts proposed, and Mr Blanche seconded as an amendment : — '• That this meeting is of opinion tint it is unwise to I alter the present form of Provincial Govern I ment before knowing what form of Governi ment it is proposed to establish in its place." The amendment was then put, and a few hands were held up for and against it, the Cuairman ruling that it was lost.

The original resolution wrb then put and declared to be carried, the same paucity of hands being observable. Mr Haddow proposed a vote of tlianka to Mr Curtis, which was carried unanimously. A vote of thanks to the Chairman teminated the proceedings.