LATEST TELEGRAMS.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume IX, Issue 202, 26 August 1874, Page 2

LATEST TELEGRAMS.

PARLIAMENTARY. Wbij-isgxon, August 25. i >x ■." -Upon the House resuming, Mr Fitzherbert 'V movidhi.' resolution for the dissolution oi . -Pariianieiit/ - He felt much _is»ppi»iutment '■•■'- l %hat he bad no. been able to (.peak on the ..abolition of Provinces deoate, but did not bring, down .the present resolu ion merely <•' with the' oßj-CO of makiog a speech. He *'; ."wished 'tho House to pause before: taking s ' li another step upon the. resolutions they had .auctioned a few days ago. They had eono- ' ' 'rulcted tii'emsel^e- to the resolution that local ; -_felf-IJ-ver_u_-ent bhould be abolished : (cries "'of 1 o, no) in the JSorth Island, that, in lieu < - =^*TJiereof,'SO__e new machinery should be estiblished, apd that -j. htap of agents should be made use 6rY : Such a -fundamental proposal, 'depriving' 'the people of their rights as _. Tsipctioned under the Constitution Ac, was far too important to be fioally dealt with wi.houc asceit-ining the ""^fritf the people by an appeal to ihe Co .°j_M_H__j_H_R I £ would not be , sufficient for in_SH|^H^erß upon returning home to app^^flH^Bi CoaßL * tuents to confirm., or not inß^^Bßregartiiog this I .ure *ih ' ParitaKHHßft simultaneous ionot'tde peopfe9HH|By, and a full VsgionJpy ; the tioufl^^^Hß^ propased c introduced iv pr_^H^HKfcstit-tioDs it to be abolished. tlie era of the House uQ___Wk\W_\& c was behind it a higher— ait^^B^^Bgver— - ■ •h could make orunmak^BßßßLand was.biongbt ■^BHHKtabe th the paper it was printel^H^^Huo raance with, tbe wishes of theHH|^k ibpt euch a political change W^^BBft ent of the people would be agreq^^^^B der, and no good w.uld come ora^HH ted the House to understand tnfi^Bj _$ clause did not quite express iiß^B it&g,' and 'he asked to be allowed to^^fl following words : — " Aud that any BB Iffls that may be prepared to give effectwa resolution shall be submitted to the Hou_9 re the game shall be passed into law." ' fee -Premier said that if he wanted my SOenee in' bringing down his resolutions, o'uldbave found it in the feeble arguments tagain-t the proposal. When the hon. tletoan who had just eat down tabled bis' orations that ' Parliament ;W„b not commit to deal with the question without rayhkg the degrading position of having i<fcud_. placed before them, the House had gfat to espect something at least from the I. member which would give them s.me!g to pander over when tbey went home, instead of that he had confined himself common-place generalities: ' It 'apred that one moat important feature of the Btion was thflt the powers of Parliament sld .-^maintained., The Parliament was eetty capable to deal with the question chhad beeu opened up, otherwise they one .to ' the' : position of mere sgates with less power abs.lutely than »of members of an annual rarliamti.t. « hon. gentleman then .tad several exis from authorities on - parliamentary procedure, to show that no oonsututiouat quettion was of t«o great importance fur an I awembled Parliament to deal wirb.) Amongst I the instance, cued was that of a jPa.rii_ni.i_I elected ior three years prolonging its existence ■ ior seven years in onier to save the country ■ from anarchy and rebellion. He read there W I° D ? extracts to enable him to finally set ai B rest those devices of the rninorit^to upset th. B deliberate opinion ot the majority, lhe hon. member bad tet himself up us a person wh . been always consi.ieot, ai if be had cev.r HH formed on opinion but\wh.t was right, lie HB had also stated that toe present Parliamm . BB h-tfi been returned wholly with the intention advancii g tbe Puulic\ Work, aud ' Immi.scheme. If ho, recollected aright M^HBe [boa. _ue_ober was returned ia ihe i inter.i.t the grain growers, and those desirous ol ■Hweing tbeir land laws reformed. The H^KuLmember for Port Chalmers had also ' set B^Kffglea that whatever j* is right, ae&yet w _________■-

1861 ne proposed to abolish the p, evinces in the Middle Island It wns absurd to say that the question introduced in the resolutions was new or that it had not engaged the attention of hon. members for years and years previously. Be enumerated the Dames of various members who at different times had expressed themselves strongly against the maintenance of provincialism. Another reason .against this demand for a dissolution was that however distinctly the question might le^nt to the constituencies, it was almost an impossibility to obtain a direct answer, The West Coast or Nelson people would in.ist thnt they wanted « dny road, or the people of Caulerbury that they wanted a tax upon imI orted grain. iie confessed that he had not txpected such a large majority. j lie would be sorry to impute sordid | motives to any members of the House, and hoped that he would not be deemed to I attribute such motives whenJie reminded the House that oi the 16 who voted against the re.e'.utions, eleven were, either Superintendents-, ii embers of Provincial Executive?, or Speakers of Provincial Councils, anda'.thongh. with characteristic modesty, they claimed those who did not vote, they, this great p .rty. were still dependent on thtir bitterest enemies ior support. He had been reminded of his provincial sympathies, aud he was reaiy to admit that he had done his best to maintain the integrity of provincial institutions, but the House could not say that he had no t t given them warning that their race was nearly run, especially in the North leland. In doing _o in 1870 he iob! the House, ii it were fount that Provincial institutions were inconsfcti-nt with the prosecution of public works, then so muoh the worse for provincialism. In 1 872 they had absolutely brought down a Bill to enable Parliament to administer the affairs of tlnse provinces which were unable to administer for ihemselvcs. It was last year which fairly fairly opened his eyes to the obstruction they were daily meeting from the provinces, as when the Government made the most reasonable proposals regarding the making over of some land in connection with public works, the reasonable request was refused. Again, with the Forests scheme they were met by a storm of indignation. He was accused of initiating the bureaucratic system of France in proposiug a resid.nt Minister at Auckland, when it was absolutely something which had been practised in the colony ior years. Strangely enough, the hon. member for Selryn who brought tbe charge against him never thought thus be was carrying out the French system when he was tfce Resident Minister in Canterbury. He was told, fr. o, that the Government were breaking up their party, but the list thowed that only four of the old party toted against them. He then explained now the Government wtre compelled, in consequence ot the misrepresentations of their acts, t. insert ill their resolutions that they did not intend to disturb the Compact of 1856, nor to remove the Sf at of Government, < >n<} Superintendent ran to his followers and said " Oh ! tne Government intend to rob us of our land revenue," »nd another, " Oh! tho Government intend to remove the Seat of Government." It was useless t > raise the cry that the Government intended to sweep awa,y the present machinery without replacing it with something more adapted to present circumstances. They in'ende-t t:> enlarge and to make -üb^tanti.'il local i'orros of government, to give their revenues instead of e'eemosj nary aid, and their sharo of land fund in aid of loc >1 works. It was proposed moreover, to estab- ! lish larger districts capahle of carrying on railway and other large works. It must be distinctly understood that tht y had to look to the land revenue as security for carrying on public works. The/ had recognised, all along, the necessity ior making a landed estaie for the North Island, and he thought that as the North Island became populated, the colony would gladly lend its aid to acquire such land as could profitably.be acquired. Let him remind them that the original proposals of iB7O were for ten mi lions, of which tight millions were to be spent upon railways What was the result at tbe present day? It was this, and it was bitteriy mortifying to know it, that, oi all this amount, only cix and . a half millions were spent jjs originally intended, the other million and a ha'f being given in concessions to the provinces. He did not undervalue the opposition which . might be aroused, and the struggle ..which would be made by interested parties, but he felt a deep conviction that the truth of the idea would gradually loree its way into the minds of the people, and, if it were put to them, that they' would nobly aui boldly affirm the principle advocated by the Government. Was it, he said, when it was in the power of ihe Government, and they hsd the opportunity to confer upon the North Island a pro*perity such as that enjoyed by the , .Suuth, that.they were not to do so? He was happy tb think these proposals haiL hem the means of cementing a strong party, bound together by diitinct ties, 'which must preserve their power for a few years at least.! He concluded by moving, as an amendment, ;that all the words of the original motion commencing with " organic change " to the end of.the resolution be left out, and the following substituted:— "lhe Provincial system of Go- . vernment in the North Inland should, as soon as possible, be followed by an inexpensive but more thorough' iorm of total government, under which the Islmd .hou'd be divided into districts and sub-districts, endowed with ■substantial. revenues, and the residents therein tt ba. enabled to. take a larger and more direct Ksbare in the management of local affairs and Ke expenditure of local revenues' than" is : a. ■ the case. Stafford had great pleasure in second9Hng amendment, which went in the direcBlH&hte sympathies for years and years, be, and many other members, VBHHbsly looked. The horn member for «^B[r. Fitzherbert) had surprised him MH^Bnavbat he did not sjty-as by what c Pegged ,0 reraind the hon. m^___B_E_^____L use s 6wn wor<^ 8 > hon. gennHß^Hfeted ia a more revolutionary maDnW^HßH^kremier, or tba i it was possible Ho^^^^Rhe present forms of the Douse in withdrawing 10,000 of i troopß at a time when the countrj|^Hppfrar ; and, on the same principle, in^Pßyears he was found advocating, the faking away from Canterbury the County of Westland, aod, some time after- i wards, in supporting the establishment of the I Timaru and Gladstone Board of Works. These acts were jits't as decisive, and in the same direction, as those which the hon. gentleman at the head of the Gpvernment now wanted the House to take. (Hear, and cries of No.) Well, it the localisation of revenues, and the eauowtuei.t of Leal districts with local revtnuts, giving them the management of tbeir affairs, were nut in the same direction as the events just alluded to. he was not able o dibcover the prop r meaning of words He had never yet known the lime when it was the proper time to tffe.-t any reform; with some peopje it woi^ld never be the tim 4 He was aware what an invidious aspect the measur,. had in not being universal, and speaking lor himself, he said fe.rlessry that -be would have preferred that the House should have been asked to consider the value of its universal application. He did not pretend to btneve ior a moment tha* this was to be final It was only the beginning of the end, aud, for his part, he did not care how soon the end came, and he believed the country woula I largely re-pond, and say that they would not only accept it, but wishe J that it went a great ' de/tl further Many of the minority voted againßt it because it was not an universal measure. What would >be the pcßition of the minority and what would be its chances of cohesion if, after a short time-/ it Bhould be pjopowd to go the whole length

and to make. the change universal ? The Premier bad nothing to fear if he went to the country to-morrow. There wouH, ho doubt be a great fight in some of the capital tow a of the provinces, for there was a large bread-and-butter interest in question which would be very hard indeed Worcomo, bul the eobner they recognised the wo?k they would have to encounter the better. Lot them all do their best for ihe public good. This was a time when the best men in the country must do their _e*t for lhe country, and if th?y would not do so, be would say, God help the country.' '_'-„ Mr Fitzherbert congratulated the' member for Timaru upon his consistency io hostility to provincial institutions. Tho hon gentleman answered at considerable length the principal points of the Premier's speech. He denied that the quotations reid by him were in any , way applicable to the present case. Mr Fox said it seemed unreasonable and unadvisable to relegate the question to a new Parliament— to new men' who did not know their trade, as against those who hsd strved lor several years. He maintained there would be no such great struggles as that apprehended ; that there would be no struggle outside Auckland City. The Thames would not ohje.t, ror the out-districts ; nor would Taranaki or Hawke's Bay oppose the resolution. He was certain that beyond a few people on. the Wellington beach there would be no opposition. The hon gentleman raa rapid y over the history of provincialism since its foundation to show that it was now useless. The first blow at the provinces was the Native war, when, from 1860 to 1870, colonisation was at a stand-till.. The second cause was the passing of the Naive Lauds Act ; next, the decision that the provinces should cease to borrow; and lastly the Immigration and Public Works scheme. When the time had come that struggle could no longer continue. When the provinces could be no longer of j utility, it was time for every man, regardless of the chsrge of tergiversation or inconsistency, to set his face iv the right direction They might call him inconsistent, but he i gloried in it when, by changes in circumstances, consistency became wrong. They had been told this was a great revolution, but every reform was not revolution. The mere : alteration or the extension of the machinery of government was a greater revolution brought about without the people being consulted (?) When a Ooustitution was given to the colany New Zealand did not fly into a thousand fragments He appreciated Provincial Governments and what ihey had done, but tbey were now effete, and there would certainiy not be less, but more, local krowkdge and action. Under the institutions of district or road boards the localisation of Go vernment would be greater and more intense than ever it had been uader the PiO'.incuil system. Mr. T. L. Shepherd justified himself in tbe eyes of his constituent* by explainiaing that he could not possibl) vote for the coutinunnceof a system which was obligtd to be kept in existence by borrowed money ef the whole colony. } Mr. White wanted to kuow where the substantial revenues referred to lv. the Premier's amendment: were to come frcm ? Mr. Johnston would vote for the amendment jui-t because the Premier had introduced that provision into bit amendment, 'before, his r solutions were purely destructive—now, however, he showe . some indications of replacing that, which he was pulling down. Mr. Rolleston's reason for refraining from taking part in the debate was became all the .speakers had avoided the real question at issue, and amongst these were the re-distribu-tion of representation, the incidence of taxation, and personal Government in the House, and, against' the latter, the country would unmistakably express its opinion. He ventured to predict that the voice of the people would • not be as was expected. A division was then called for upon the original motion, which was negatived by 45 to 19... - •-:... . ...,- The resolution, as amended bv'theJPremier, was then made a substantive motion, and carried on the voices. . . Mr. Swanson moved the addition of the following words :— " Aud that tiie bill to give effect to these resolutions be circulated at, least two months before the meeting of Parliament." A division was called for, the result being : •—For the amendment,.2l-; against it, ,40. The House adjourned «t 1-45 am. On the motion that the House go into Committee upon the report of the Honorarium Committee, Mr Reid opposed it, as he thought the general opinion was against the present allowance being increased. Mr Rolleston also opposed' it.-' ■*< ' The House went into Committee. The essence of the report was that the Committee thought it undesirable to. increase the honoraiums of the other branch of the Legislature, but that they should be subject to the same reductions as tho Lower House, and that it was not necessary to disturb the allowances of members of the Legislature residing within three miles of the Government Buildings. These principles were , embodied in six resolutions. '.' The Premier 'proposed the first resolution that members of the Assembly residing more than three miles from the Assembly buildings should receive their actual fares by coach, railway, or eteambbat once each way to and from their usual residence. Agreed to without discussion. -. . ...Resolution. Np._3; provided that aU allowances during- the sitting days of the session, and that a proportionate reduction be made . for each sitting day during which a member is . absent, provided that if during -th. session a member was not absent more than three sitting days in all no deduction should be made. .; . .... .- Major Atkinson' said that the clause was most unfair, as members who came into the House and then walked out immediately without ; doing any work were treated the same as the members who displayed industry in the affairs of the country. The Premier said they bad this difficulty that when they deducted a guinea per day for non-attlndance, they found that in a hundred days' session, with seventy sitting days, the member who never attended obtained thirty guineas for ; neglecting the business of the country. The Speaker s.id that the great difficulty to contend, with was the keeping of & record of member-' attendance, and he thought the present usage was the best. Mr J. C. Brown opposed the term "allowances to members of Assembly." He objected eutirejyjo/the members of the other branch being paid for their attendance, as they were all rich men, who could afford to give services without remuneration. After a very great deal of discussion and half-a-dozen different amendments, the clause finally passed, being amended ao as to allow five daya'absence to members, and in any dedu< tions that five days be allowed. Clause 4, that no deduction be made for the absence of any member present in Wellington, but absent from the House through illness was agreed to. Clause 5, that no payment be made except upon the certificate of the Speakers of the Legislative Council or Efouse of Representa-, fives was agreed to «. : . . ""' The Premier then introduced a resolution for granting equal .allowances to members -of. both branches of the Legislature, and that after this year the allowances of members of Assembly be regulated by Act, but that during this year the allbwance shaU be 150 ; gnineas to all members of the Assembly residing Iboyond three miles from the place of ' meetmg^of the Assemblyi and 100 guineas to all membere of the Assembly residing within :

that distance. He defended the principle o_ paying the members o: both bra-ches so as to relieve them of the charge of being mere representative* of wealth. ■ •'. Mr Johnston opposed it on the ground that the House was not justified with such large taxation looming in the distance Mr Fox objected solely because he regarded ' it in the light of payment, ar.d not from any fear that the country was precipitately running to ruin. . Mr Stafford did not think the honorariums should be increased- ' Mr M'Glashsn supported. Mr Ormond said that the ; increase was not required, and would not be well received by the country. The present allowance was quite sufficient for all legitimate expenses. Mr Reader Wood opposed any increase. Ifc : would ba time enough to propose au increase I when the House sat four or five months; Mr J. E. Brown supported the resolutions. His experience was different to that of the member for Parnell. 4 Mr White said he always supported payment to members, and recognised the resolution as a step in that direction. Mr Fitzherbert believed greatly in . the payment of members ss the best means of electively filling the House, and also maintained that the other branch of the Legislature should be treatel in common. He would support the proposal, although in the light of remuneration he considered it inadequate. Mr Tribe believed the country would concur in the payment of members. He could point to many instances in the House where the honorarium left a perfect los?. Mr Reid moved aa an amendment that the word " fifty " be struck out. Upon a divisiun being taken, the amendment was negatived by 32 to 23. The resolution was then agreed to. On the resolution being put that none of these provisions be applicable to Speakers, Ministers, and Chairmen of Committees, Mr Fox said, if you are doing this upon the principle that persons already in receipt of public sal Ties should not be paid you include provincial servants, many of whom received very large salaries. Mr O'Conor and Mr Reid explained that • most of the Provincial officers had to pay persons to do their work in their absence. The resolution waa agreed to, and the whole reported and adopted. The Excise Duties Rill was read the first time. Messrs Murray and J. L. Gillies recorded their protest against the Bill to do away with colonial industries for the mere purpose of increasing the revenue. The House adjourned afc 5.30 p m. August 26. Upon tho House resuming, the Excise Bill was read the second time, several members protesting against it on account of its destroying colonial industry, and asserting that if the people would drink alcohol they should be allowed to make it in the colony. The Bill was passed through all Ua stages. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Messrs Murray and Thompson made some lengthy remarks to the effect that our finance and Public Works and Immigration Policy were being carried on in a ruinous manner. The various items on the Supplementary Estimates were passed through Committee, the Premier and Minister for Public Works explaning any new items. A very long discussion occurred upon the amendments made in the Licensing Bill in the Legislative Council, and managers were appointed to wait upon the Council with I reasons for disagreeing with them. The House adjourned at 2.i5 a.m.