PARLIAMENTARY.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume VIII, Issue 229, 23 September 1873, Page 4

PARLIAMENTARY.

(Wellington Independent, Sept. 20.) MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. Mr Yogel said he would centinue the Ministerial statement of Wednesday night. He spoke under a grave sense of responsibility, as the question affected not only the financial policy of ibe Gdvernment, but the relations between the two Houses, The bill involved three distinct points. First, whether Provincial works should be constructed out of borrowed money. 2nd Whether such money should be expended by the authority of the Councils. 3rd. Who should borrow the money. Besides thi>, there was now the question of the relations between the two Houßep. It could not be denied tbat these relations were at present unsatisfactory. (Hear, hear,) He referred to the bill that had been introduced info the Council for the reconstruction of that body. It was in accordance with Parliamentary etiquette tbat the hill should have been introduced there. It was a very conaiderale one to the feelings of these gentlemen, yet they had refused to consider it. Though it might be considered a stretch of the prerogatives of the House to initiate a measure for the reform of the Upper House, it would cor, he thought, be such a stretch to pass a resolution asking the Secretary of State to review the question with a view to legislation in the Imperial Parliament. (Hear, hear.) There waa no.analogy between the position of the House of Lords at home and the position of the Legislative Council here. The Lords were the representatives of the great landlords of the country; the Councillors were the representatives of the great tenants. (Laughter.) He thought if the Council were continued as at present, provieioo should be made for bringing the two Houses together so that the majority of the one should bo backed up by the minority of the other. He referred to a resolution passed some days ago by the Upper House to the effect tbat the financial condition of the colony was such as to call for serious ronsideration. The resolution, be considered, was calculated, if it chanced (o get into the London papers, to do immense damage to the credit of the colony. Mr Stafford rose to a point of order. The hon member was introducing debateable matter while there was no opportunity of replying to him. Mr Yogel wonld move the adjournment of the debate. Mr Stafford should not get excited (laughter). He had made an incendiary speech against the Upper House some years ago. Mr Stafford denied tbis. Mr Yogel continued. He (Mr Stafford) bad threatened ths introduction of the Armed Constabulary. The financial condition of the colony was not such as it had been represented to be. He thought the course pursued by the Council in throwing out the Provincial Loans Empowering Bill justified something more. The Government, however, di<J not think there was any occasion for stretching fhe codstitutional powers fhey possessed by swamping the Upper House. He thought, however, that they should use all constitutional means to carry out the policy decided on. What he proposed was that the particular bills brought in to bs worked under the Provincial Loans Bill should be sent up to the Council modified in some respects. They should have provisions for giving security on fifteen per cent of the land revenue, and on tolls and dues on the wor&s constructed. To do this without affecting the credit of the colony, it would be necessary to provide a special branch of revenue, and tbis would have to be provided by a property tax (hear, hear). This, however, was only a contingency. It was not, he believed, necessary. If it were introduced it would be a tax on all kinds of property, with a minimum limitation. In the bills as Bent up the, rating clauses would be omitted. It was found they wera not necessary. Borrowing on security of rates was provided for in an Act of 1871. If the Upper House refused to meet the question in a conciliatory manner, it would then be necessary to ask them to consider the main bill. This would require to be done in a fresh session. The fresh session might, without anything unconstitutional being done, be held after a very brief interval after prorogation. Mr Stafford said he must make some reference to Mr Vogel's statements in regard to himself. He had referred to him as taking up the quarrel of the other branch of the Legislature. He denied that there was any quarrel. The Upper House had acted in a perfectly Constitutional manner. Many depreciatory remarks bad been made In regard to the personnel of the Upper House. Mr Yogel had not made such remarks. Mr Stafford did not refer to the honorable member. He found that tbirtyliz of them had been members either of the House or Provincial Councils; six of them were past Superintendents. It was quite untrue to represent them all or nearly all as stock-owners. Only a very email proportion of them were so. It was improper to decry the class of stockowners. Mr Yogel had staled that he (Mr Stafford) bad intended to swamp the Council. He spoke of his intending to introduce the Armed Constabulary. At the time when differences of opinion took place between the Houses when he was in power there was no Armed Constabulary. (Hear, hear.) He had been strongly urged

to Bwamp (lie Council in 1865, but hsid stead fastiy refused. Mr Yogel had aptly described Ibe reconstruction bill brought into the Council ns a namby-pamby measure. Had it been a well-considered one it would probably hrive received better treatment in the Council. He felt grent pleasure in coming to the next part of Mr Vogel's observations — that in regard to the property tax. Ho bad always regarded that as a necessary part of the policy (Hear, hear). He did not think that there was an insuperable objection to such a policy. They would probably, however, have fulure occasions of considering the subject (Applause). CONSTITUTION OF THE CABINET. The report of the select committee appointed to consider the question of Ministers' salaries was brought up and read. Mr Yogel rose fo a point of order. The committee, which had been appointed without notice, had much exceeded its functions in making a recommendation on a point which was strictly speaking, a Ministerial one. They recommended that the number of Ministers should be reduced to six, and that there should be only one Meori member. Mr Yogel said that of course such a proposition would not be entertained by the Ministry for a moment. To suppose that he would favor it, was to suppose that he would be ready to shake off his colleagues with the view of increasing his own remuneration. If the question of a reconstruction was raised, the Government would resist it to the utmost. The Speaker remarked that the committee merely said that when the Ministry was reduced to six, the increase in remuneration should take effect, and there should be only one Maori Minister. Mr Yogel hoped »ho repoit would be brought before them ill some form in which it could be debated. Mr Tolmie gave notice of motion for Monday that the House should resolve itself into a committee of the whole, with the view of amending the Civil List Act, in the direction recommended.