THE EDUCATIION BILL – MR. FOX'S REPLY.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume VI, Issue 221, 18 September 1871, Page 4

THE EDUCATIION BILL - MR. FOX'S REPLY.

;f -„. /fifroJß itfle fyeMingioii Independent.)] Mr. Fex said he was gratified' at the feelings expressed towards himself and the Government;^ ; With regard" to the appointment, of a Minister _of Education, ; it 'was not- 'the intention'of the Goverii"menOoT appoint anew Minister of Education in* addition r to tlie "Ministers who already sat on the" Government benches. °Th^re-woul ! d^be' r ho additional expenses ; the duties^ wpuld : .' , be'''^utfderiß , k'eri by ; a Minister Wadditioii'to the portfolio which he already held. : He altogether demurred to the view that the Minister of Education should, be independent of the Government, and .should hold his office for all time, subject to good conduct. It would place, bim beyond all .control ; such. a course would 1 be opposed to the general "rule "that the responsible administrators should have the control of every officer of the State. ' The next point was tbe r definition of the districts, which, are at conterminous with the provincial boundaries;.! Hon. members were running away with the idea that the provinces were to be set on their legs again by the erectibnof.provincial boards. The Gov- : ernmebtwisbed to : interfere as little ai possible with the existing machinery. T TKey Ihtfo'ght they would, be acting very unwisely by making any violent eruption ; and if they .had to, tate any division, there was none 'Wat ifhey could take so easily as the provincial boundaries. The next point was a. very important one — -the constitution of the boards. He thought, as far. as he had been able to gather from the opinions of hon. members, that the elective was the right one, but he thought he saw advantages, so long as Provincial Governments existed-, in bringing' the boards into communication with the Provincial Executive. Reasons had been given to him which induced bim to believe that the communication would be desirable,. and he proposed that the boards should consist of the Superintendent and the Treasurer of each Province, and so many members, from five to twelve, elected by the school committee. They would be the connecting link between the pulse of the province and "the school board, and he had reason to, believe that such a plan was not an unwise provision. He would favor the idea of a compromised board of .this: sort. Then, as : to „.the."scjipjDi fees. There were many reasons in faypr-pf, tbe s payment of f fees. It interested the parenV in the education of his children, and it was a very considerable source* of school revenue. In framing Mr. Fprster's bill, it was found unwise to "- abandon them, and it had been decided to retain the provision for the payment of fees, ,In America np school fees were charged, bui' he thought, on the whole, they. should adopt them; that either fees should be charged, at such a rate asjtbe board might, appoint, or that the Nelson system, which imposed an annual rate of £1 on; every householder, in addition to a head rate of ss. for each child not exceeding If bort*-. in: any /one family, should be ...adopted. He. would, now approach that very ticklish, and, at the same time, fundamental pointof the bill^tne subject of the aided schools; a point on which he expected as great a, difference 'bf; opinion, arid' as* narrow a majority as on any other portion, of. the hill; still he hoped they woniS have' a 'majority, because it would ~"be~'moßt " unwise to sweep them away; it would be unjust to shut the door: against them to the extent they were provided by the bill. More, than that, it would give „ rise? |p such ' ah .. amount of' opposition among a large section of society, that it wduWrender- the working of their school system as a general, national system almost impracticable., It, was not r a system r that could be' worked in the face of a Violerjt opposition; it must have a very large nbtfail 'topasb through the House.: Thejriajority among the people. On these; grounds he hoped the aided schools clauses would : . next .serief of clauses -was -the conscience ' \ clauses,' and the, necessity; for, .them , would depend on We questiph whether' the aided schools and the Bible clauses passed; if these cbhscience clauses; were/ "thrown out, then there wonld be no necessity for the aided -schools. > If ; the House passed one j tbey would require the other. He would pass th^m over and come to the considera- '"- tion* of "the Bible clause-^the clause which - prescribed that, the Bible should be, read daily. 1 J SeVeral some pf whom he scarcely expected: to do so after f the manner in which they had expressed < -themselves, did object toj the use ; o|*j4fa|e Bible in schools. 7He had endeavorec! . ftjo get, i.ati -the MreasoDS i for objecting to ' !^&^¥^&g^ Ml #Mt en -f the schools, and the reasons, as far as he could understand^" were three: the first,- --• sras ; secondro.Was T thei unreaßoaableneßS f <f . : jock^ac' thing j^Tana - ; ihe :■ ,thijpd : \jwis' ' Ilffo^. A He H r«Hi that it wa/e^

. .:i i\ iri H J '7 « ? fruitless, and unnecessary to attempt to, instil dogmatic ideas into the minds "of children of tender ages, and, as far as tliat object went^e quite concurred thai? it was objectionable, but it did not follow that if the Bible were read in the schools that it should*. con veyf one 'dogmatic" ideai '-- A .thousand passages might "be' permitted to 1 be* read with great - advantage in ' the presence of tbe most innocent minded child. Experience^ proved that there wasvery kittle -fear of-schoolmasters. adopting .dogmatic?; teaching; they^ would %c| found to be . quite. . content . to. .give, the reading merely— -tHey ;were hot in rthe habit of giving, dogmatic' teachingrr-they ;were, not likely to attempt to proselytise. Objection. was made on the ground that there were erroneous translations in the Bible, but he: thought that entirely: fell t6; the ground;! he had read Bisho Colenso's work, and it did not weigh very much- with him.. There were many passages that, would form the staple of a child's education, and he thought the objection a very weak one.. Another objection—and as ; a conscientious .one he regarded it with all respect, particularly if it were used by a father towards his own chiidWwas thaMhere .were passages in the Scripture 'which ought not to meet the ear of a child. But that; was purely a matter of selection; selections might be made that would obviate . that objection altogether. He could riot. help remarking on what he would' not call hypocrisy but a feeling of affected delicacy in such an objection, and he confessed it was with some amazement he heard it urged, by several hon. members od behalf of the children of the working classes; the very persons who insisted on the giving of nothing more than a merely elementary teaching, and opposed anything in the shape of a classical education, and yet were, at the same time, scraping together every farthing for the purpose of giving their children this very classical education they so much object to, or at any rate the Highest education they could afford to pay for. He was sure, and he thorbugly agreed with the hon. member, for the Hutt when he made the statement, that the Bible was the book of books, and he trusted the House would not be a party to pre* scribing that the Bible should not be read in schools. Another point on which 'there was a difference of opinion was as to compulsory education, and the; general opinion of the House seemed to be that it was desirable, if it was possible, to carry it out, yet that in the: present state of society it ; would be i very difficult .to enforce the observance of that portion of the bill. He concurred in the objection, and proposed to follow the course adopted in England, namely, to leave it to the local boards to 1 settle whether, in each particular instance, compulsory education should be decided on or not. If the G-oviernment carried the bill and the feeling of the; country was that it was a good. one,. ne knew of no reason why. they should hot carry it out, so that he hoped the House would allow the., compulsory, clauses to stand. Then came the question of rates. A great difficulty rested on the rfact that the ,- -different . provinces , had different systems. They ' must expect jtbafcl every portion of; the would object, to fresh taxation,; /and. he must confess that' as ' regarded the property rate he was.opposed to .it, because it was i unjust to throw iipon the landed estate the whole burdens of the community ; personally, he would object 'to *its jbeing); levied solely on landed property. This matter "might also ]be left to the local authority in each 1 province, although he 7'wouldi propose that-it. should he - a household rate, because there was the argument in its favor that- two provinces had ; already adopted the household rate— Nelson and Canterbury. Mr. Fox read . frojm (a "return to show what the result of a household rate would be. There were at present in New Zealand 65,129 houses, of which, to use a Hibernian ism, 2014 were„tentß,and tju»tle;ft]s3,|ls,^fte| dedu-Btiijgthe tents,! HaDle io pay : tW -rate, whitefr' a r t £1 per house would •_ produce ;a 7 corresponding amount in money. At present, the total, amount collected for school expenses in alls the proyinees; jwm> -£37,!572.> pOf course in those provinces where the rate was at ;^rese|i ty^id| it vfoufij hot'; touch them;at!allK the--*mdunt of school 1 expenditure in each province -^or the past year, showing thiß^mftui&L^opirdipg^io: population, -which should, have been spent for school maintenance in each province,' Mi Lrai n ?^lA er .f Ah^en^blj ylow,] Marlborough — where there was only one schoolmaster, and that one a lady— havibg ; spent only £40, awhile a head rate wouldynavfel required Ithel expenditure §f over^<k)^rwlnle'olago^which j l)y \Ke same ratio, nefid. s nptia-«e, spent more than returns, Mr. Fox saj&at-wpqhi M.seen that where the pco fi l£||r^|i|n|l^|ax themselves, a sufßoient amount could be raised ifbrtlMiidu«atiD*M^ 4he wlhole colony. Having touched upon -

„the direction, the Grpvernmeht'' would take, . f and the amendments lieyT^wo^d dbnsent in the bill, he would leave'^it-with the House, : and if; it iwere so modelled as . ■ in ' their opinion it wonld be. desirable ; to withdraw it, they would do so, and allow the people ;. of the countryr-to- 4ff CUBS ** i during the recess. -He would- mbve the r House into committee on Friday next, at j half-past .o'clock. \p .The Bill was then -read, a. second time. '