The Mines Commission.

Maoriland Worker, Volume 2, Issue 36, 10 November 1911, Page 6

The Mines Commission.

EV!D£?*3GE AT DENNISTON.

The Mines Commission sat at Denniston on October 12, and heard evidence from the Miners' Union.

James Scott, coal-miner, said he considered that every miner should have 150 cubic feet of air provided at the face, and that when the sections were large the air should be split so that the men would not be inhaling the same air. Communication should not be more than seven yards from the face, and both stentons and bords should be blinded so as to make the air full. Apparently it was a case of each stenton running level and half the air escaping, while half the colliers were suffocated. Regarding the extraction of pillars and prevention of accidents, he thought that under the present system of grab it was no wonder so many accidents occurred. When taking out a pillar with 22-yard centres, the miner might be ordered to drive through the pillar, which left a very small stump on both sides. The consequence was that the collier held his life in his hands. Pillars should not be split- more than 12 feet, and all bords and stentons should be broken away 12 feet wide, which would give the pillar a good hold at the corner. If the day-wage system were introduced it would stop the rush and tendency to grab, and the colliers would take time.to put in props, and thus secure their own safety.

Is that a matter of the system or the price?—The system, not the price at all. The same thing would be carried on if you were> getting 10s. or ss. a ton.

Mr. Dowgray: What is your opinion about men starting coal without having any previous experience ?—When I started I had to have two years' experience in Newcastle before I dared to ask for work on the coal.

How does the system of pillar extraction here compare with that in other places?—lt is very different. Do you- consider the pillars far too ■ small ? —Yes, though under tlie . tonnage rate system they have to be : small. The management fixes that. Robert Leonard Knight said he corroborated everything that had been brought forward. In regard to .the general safety of the men, he said that no bords should be broken away more than 12 feet wide, and no pillar should : be split more than 12 feet wide and 8 feet high. He would also* recommend a .sigle shift throughout the mine except at headings. Mr. Dowgray: Do you think the double shift in pillars is a source cf danger ?—Yes. ; Would you explain to the Commission i your reason for doing so? I —In double shifts in"* pillars when a '. man leaves his pillar in the .afternoon ! it might be. all working, and- if another ] man has to follow him in the same pillar he is running his head into danger ; ' but if the pillar is left it will quieten ( down. And then if it is worked on a \ single shift the man would know hou f he set his timber.

What is the system of breaking-'away bords just now? —Some of" them arc -broken away 12 feet wide and then widened out, and some -are broken away. 18 feet wide. According -to the agreement, the management can decide that. It is not customary to break them away 12 feet?— No. You suggest that it should be made compulsory? —Yes. Mr.. Parry : What is your opinion of men who depend upon the amount of material got being allowed to _ use or handle dynamite?—l am of- opinion that if a man has to depend upon the tonnage he ought to be allowed to use the dynamite himself. He has had enough experience, and ought to be allowed to fire the shots.

James Fisher. President-of the Denniston Coal-miners' Union, said he considered that check inspectors should be paid by the Government, and they should have the power to stop a place if they considered it necessary to do so.

What do you think of the examination question? —I would not listen to that at all. <•

If you want them to be paid by the Government —and be practically Government servants in the pay of the State. —why should they not qualify themselves by examination? —I do not go much on a ticket myself. There are some who have tickets whom I Avould be very sorry to make check inspectors.

_ But the miners would still have the right to appoint their check inspectors. Supposing it was arranged so that before the Government paid the check •inspectors they must pass an exam-ination-equivalent, say, to the deputy's examination ? —No ; I would not have that at all. Have you anything further to advance? —We have'had to stop a place before. We had no power to do so. but we did, because it was unsafe. Mr. Dowgray: You said that yon have had occasion to stop a place—for what reason? —Because it was dangerous. The roof was dangerous?— Yes. Did the company have any objection to your stopping it? —No. It closed shortly after we stopped it. So that your views were accepted on that occasion ? —Yes. Mr. Fletcher: Did you report that dangerous place to the manager?— Yes : the check inspectors did so on two or three occasions. * The Chairman : Have you anything to say on prevention of accidents? —J. think the whole mine should be'on shift work. Mr. Dowgray: Have you ,an;y idea iO-f. •the .number of -minor -accielt-nts that /occur in this.colliery ?-—1 could not tell you offhand, but the Mines Department has the reports on 'them. If you compare tlie -accidents now with those of 14 or 15 years .ago, you -will find there are ,a jgreat many -more' nowadays. ? ana ..judging .from.the payments, out ,o£ the medical fund. It used to be £4 or

£5 a fortnight, and now it goes up to £40 or £SP" a fortnight. The Chairman: You are taking the accidents which put the men on the books of the benefit society?;— Yes. Mr. Dowgrny: How does the numberi of men employed compare?—lt is about! the same.

To what do you attribute the increase in accidents ? —The men had more experience then.

You think it is the unskilled labor, which is the cause ? —lt is partly the cause, though Our fatal'accidents have, happened mostly to skilled men—that is tht -insult of the rush in the work.

Is iii; customary miners to endeavour to make, a certain amount each day?— Yes; they have, to make a living, and with the pillars it has to be a bit dangerous before they can make anything out of it.

So that under the present system the hard, safe working does not pay?— No.

Mr. Fletcher : Were you working here when the Compensation Act was passed?— Yes.

Have you any idea how much money was paid out for accidents prior to that? —No, I could not say. Of course, it was a great deal less than now. We do not attribute, tlie accidents to the Compensation Act. Do you know how much -" T 7.L paid out of the accident fund then ? —No ; but it was smaller 14 or 15 years ago. I could not give you the exact figures.

Mr. Fletcher: At Millerton it was about £40 a year 10 years ago, and -as soon as the Compensation Act came into force it rose to £40 a month.

Mr. Fisher: Do you think they 'get hurt on purpose ?

Mr. Parry: Do you think the conditions have improved this last six months? —No, they are abou the same. They have improved this last week or two, though.

Mr. Dowgray: The Commission has accomplished something? —Yes. John -Chapelhow said he thought every miner should be supplied with 150 cubic feet of .air at his working face, and that each section should get its own fresh air and have its own return, so that the air should 'not pass through another section. It was absolutely necessary that the truck system should be provided. Each mine should be provided with bath-house?*, and each man with a separate bath.

Have you any suggestions to- make in regard, to the prevention of accidents ?—I would suggets that the whole of the men be on the day-wage system.

How would that minimise accidents? —They would not have to rush their work to make a living.

You blame the contract system for the rush, and, consequently, for accidents. Is that to be attributed to the system or the price, supposing they got a higher price ?—-There -would lie the same mccnth-e for the men to rush.

Well, how do you think the change to the wage system' would affect the earning capacity of the workmen or tire output of the mine? —The output might be .a little less for a while until they got properly into the working cf the system. They may get more coal out of the mine in a given time under the •present system, but it probably ruins the section, whereas if they had the day-wage system it might take longer, but they would get more coal out of the same section.

They would get more coal out, though it would be spread over a longer period? —-Yes, probably. Then"do you-think the average daily output under the* wage-system would ho equal to that under the contract system ?—No ; the rush' would not be there.

Now have you any other suggestion to offer in regard to the roi'icos cf danger in connection with methods of working?— Yes; in regard to- pillar work, I think no place should be wider than 12 feet and not higher than 8 feet. We have a practical illustration of that, which I had intended to show the Commissioners this morning" had they visited the mine.

What is the average size of the pillars now? —About 15 or 16-yards.

And the average height?— Between 9 and 10 feet. In some places it is Less where it is heavily timbered.

Well, in some places we have had recommendations that a layer of coal-be left overhead, and in others that.it should be taken down to the stone. — If the coal was of such a height to .allow of this being done, it would be much better to have coal as a roof.

What would be a safe quantity of coal to be left up ? —lt would depend upon the seam. The coal will give better warning than any stone. There is no doubt, it would be better to leave tlie coal up if the height of the seam would allow that to be done. • Is there anything further you wish to deal with? —There is one thing that •should be looked into, and that is the robbing of a section back to its main haulage road. What is the danger?—lf you rob a place back and a fire starts, you .have only one road into the section. It is much safer to keep two roads. I also think the communication .between t*.\o headings should not be more than 1-J pillar-lengths apart. There should be a. cut-through every 1% pillar-lengths, not only for ventilation purposes, but fo„r communication between' the tv.o headings. . . Mr. Dowgray: What is your c;nnion f the law .as it relates to check inspectors? —Well, they seem to have io standing whatever. . •Have"you any suggestions to-make m regard to check inspectors?—l shculd say that they should have more power. I think the Inspector of Mines si ovdd have the power to prosecute on the recommendation of the check, inspector, or where there was a dispute. What powers do you think the .check inspectors should liave?—They should •ha-ve the power to call in.the Inspector of mines, and cfchey should *a : Jfid liave tihe power rto <go into ithe mine at juiy timer ' ' ■ ' ' It has been suggested at«other,peaces that they. Should have, tthtf cower to

stop places.—Yes, I agree with thafH* where they consider the places unsafe Has the matter of attendance of fan* cropped up here? —No; wo have nevetf heard of a,fan stopping. It has never "caused any inconvenfc ence? —Not that- I am aware of. ■

You do not think a fan left without an attendant is a- source of danger?—< It might be; the engine could be going without the fan going. I think thero should be an attendant at them, be* cause the whole of .the mine depends upon the fans. In- regard to the fireman's when the men are proceeding to their work in the morning what intimation do they get that their places are safe ft —Weill, they see the fireman come out* and he signs the board when he comeS out, and if there were danger in anj*, man's place he would stop it. How would he tell him ?—He would 1 tell the man, and put up a board across the place. - I think that ever - man should ask the fireman before h<S goes. in whether his place is safe or, not.

A suggestion has been made to us li£ other places about bells on jigs. Eavtf you bells on all jigs have bells on a lot of them—on the majority, i_ fact. Ido not think there are belbj on the short jigs. •

Do you think it would be an imw provement on the- present system?—-* Yes, except for the face jigs, and per* haps even then it would be better.

In connection with face jigs, it has been suggested that an anchor chain should be added.—Yes, that should h$ 'done.

From your experience in New Zealand, what is your opinion of men '.starting on the coal without any previous experience?.—l think that a man ishould have two years' experience in a' mine before starting on.the coal at all f - and before he gets a place to himself! he .should have, .say, six months with! an experienced miner.

Mr. Parry: Have you had any experience of taking temperatures in a mine?—No, not personally. I have worked in a place where the tempera* >ture was taken

Have the temperatures been takeii in these mines" by the check inspect bors? —No, not by us.

In which, part, of the inine do. yott consider most accidents take pGace— -> drivings, headings, or- extracting -pillars? —It would be hard to say froj_ memory.

It has been suggestel that pillar extraction he done on day-wage .system. Do you contend that the whole of the mine be worked on' that system, with, ■a view to minimising accidents?— Yea*

With regard to the extended powers for check inspectors, would you be in favour of their submitting thenigelvea to examination ?—No. s "I think if theyi have a good' general knowledge and' plenty of -practical experience that should serve the purpose.

But you ask" for power to stop sal place, and in stopping that place yoii take on yourself the responsibility ofdeciding that it is dangerous.: Do you not think that if you want power that it is only fair that you hjr, passing, an -examihatiosi that you are qu-aTfied to decide the thinki the>:check inspector would show thai! he-is qualified by being 'appointed.

Well, a deputy or fireman has to un«< dergo an examination. What' you want, practically, is to put the check; inspector against .the fireman. Do yon! think he. should pass some examina* tion and be on the same level from dl technical point of view as the maai against whom he is pitted?—-Not ne* cessarily. Because-the fireman or de«« puty has a certificate it is not to sajj that he is the cleverest. .There is no: time specified that he shall, have. serv* eel before he applies for a ticket,, and! the other man might have a good .gen* oral knowledge in any wori; abVat the. mine. But may not the, deputy have the* same practical knowledge as the other! man, but have the certificate as well to show that he is competent? Well',: I would not exchange' views witih : ai lot of them. But you are one of the -check inspect Lors. and if that power is given to ail check inspectors, what is going to shoWi •that they have., technical jknowledge?- —I think it should be- left ttf tlie^men— they would not appoint'check! inspectors who were not competent.

The witness further'stated tihat .H<s considered tlie re should be.a-hack tray-* elling road independent, of the imaia haulage road, and that there should Jbo a speed limit for haulage ropes. .With' tlie present Hate of running a laid might lose his hand or fingers.