Vital Workers' Problems.

Maoriland Worker, Volume 2, Issue 19, 14 July 1911, Page 6

Vital Workers' Problems.

This writer first became, acquainted with Walter Thomas Mills and his work through "The Comrade,' probably the most artistic magazine the Socialist movement of the world has produced. It was edited by John Sparge. Alas, it died in infancy. In tho first vol. (1902) there appeared an account of Professor Mills' scholastic enterprise on behalf of a college of Socialist students. Since, the Professor has been to the forefront in the United States movement, and has won world-wide celebrity as author of the"The Struggle for Existence," a book introduced to mc by Will A. Jones, the first editor of "Barrier Daily Truth," and the one man who did most to actually establish the paper. Jones used to swear by the "Struggle." When Mr. Mills' recent tour of the world was heralded, I began to look forward to meeting the distinguished speaker in Melbourne. Then I was summoned to New Zealand, and on tho very day I left Melbourne Mr Mills arrived in Melbourne 1 I met him in rather remarkable fashion. Saying »aod-byo to a number of comrades on th© wharf, we suddenly heard a roar from the ship of "Hullo, R—O—S—S," and the Professor was saluting us, alongside of H. H. Champion, with whom he had been "hunting" the ship for our party after coming straight from the train. Later on some local comrades, Mrs. Dora B. Montofiore, and the Professor held a meeting, the M soa-p-box" being bags of potatoes. Didn't the people stare, and didn't I blush! I carried with mc on the voyage a picture of the genially quaint and, shall I say, bizarre-looking little Professor talking Internationalism to the astonished Marama's crew and passengers and to the wharf workers and wharf visitors. Naturally, one was giad to renew the acquaintance in Wellington. And we talked—Lord! how we did talk. Follow the words of the Professor, for not the argument but Mills' viewpoint is the essential matter of this interview. Before beginning the reader may be interested in knowing that Walter Thomas Mills endured mental agony in "getting through" to Socialism and really read Socialist literature to prove he wasn't a Socialist as alleged by foes. Now, he sees that if he hadn t discovered Socialism as Way Out he might liave gone mad what of the intensity he felt. As you talk with W.T.M. you will find him readiest of the ready in meeting difficulties. Among other things .you may glean is that he gave lots of study and practice to learning to "talk" and writes "by dictating." He also mentioned to this scribe that lie landed in Chicago for the first timo on the day of the hanging of the Chicago martyrs. Which leads mc to say that Mills ought to write his memoirs. And now to it- The Professor knew something of the revolt against compueory arbitration and I knew something of has opinions upon arbitration. ARBITRATION AND THE STRIKE. Then you would advise the trade unions to stick to the Arbitration Court? I asked. "Yes, not necessarily to submit to conditions imposed by the Court, but to fight for such a reconstruction of the Court and control of it as shall make it an instrument of progress and not of oppression—and at the same time to continue an active propaganda that will always make possible a reversion to the strike, even though the strike may be forbidden .by law.'* You do not favour surrendering the right to strike? "No. I'd fight for the law which forbids a strike rather than have a worse law, but I'd break the law. The only way laws can be observed is by making laws just. The ideal is such an administration of society as will give to the producers the totality of their product. If the Arbitration Court is not an instrument to this end, it should not be abandoned, but disobeyed, and the fight continued for its improvement until it becomes an instrument for that purpose." But, Mr. Mills, would you advocate arbitration in America? "So far as I know there isn't a trade union in America that has supported the application of arbitration. Tho controlling power of the Government of America is hold by trades unionists to be so completely under the thumb of the exploiter that any court established at this* time would .become at once so serious an instrument of oppression, that for the time being the organisations of labor' are in a better position without an arbitration court than they could possibly be with a court obtained at this juncture. Nevertheless, I a.m convinced that as the political movement on the part of organised labor in America grows, efforts at

Walter Thomas Mills Yarns with the Editor.

arbitration, or court®, to determine conditions of employment in certain industries will precede in many instances the public ownership of such industries. If they do not precede public ownership they will necessarily come with tho coming of public ownership. OF PUBLIC OWNERSHIP. Which means that you support Public Ownership? "Yes, but in saying this I am always anxious to havo it understood that Public Ownership is not Socialism, and cannot be until it is extended to all industries subject to monopoly and is accompanied with democratic manage-

Effigy of his Satanic Majesty erected in Detroit, Michigan, U.S.A.

Hermann Menz, a stonemason, of Detroit, Michigan, has erected the above monument to the devil, much to the horror of his neighbours, who threaten the statue and its owner with uemolition. Menz is a believer in the Darwinian theory ? and the monument bears th.c insciption: ' 'Homo non est Creatio, sed Evolutio; Deus non Fecit Hominen, sed Homo Fecit Deos," which is: "ivlan is not a creation, but an evolution. God did not make man, out man made gods."

ment and with equal opportunity and advantages for all the people. However, the principal opponent to Socialism is Private Ownership and the Ifrincipal battle in my judgment will bo fought for Public Ownership as against Private Ownership. Public Ownership once secured in the larger portion of the monopolies the rest of the programme must speedily follow and practically without opposition." AUSTRALASIAN LABOR ISM. Do I rightly gather that this attitude implies your endorsement of the Australasian Labor platforms? "Tho programmes of the Labor parties necessarily deal with two lines of action not always kept free from confusion with each other. The one covers the field of what can be done while capitalism still obtains as the dominant form of industrial and commercial activity. The other deals with the ideals of what may be possible not only when Labor shall control the government, but industrial and commercial development has been carried under government promotion and protection into the co-oper-ative as distinguished from the capitalistic method of production. Socialist platforms as well as Labox platforms find it difficult to make statements covering thes9 two fields in such a way as to be satisfactory even to the conventions which adopt them. Having these considerations in mind, I'm not only pleased with the Labor platforms of tho Australian and New Zealand Labor parties—and I want to say the same thing for the similar documents of the Socialist organisations in these countries— but. I have been surprised in each case tiiat they have come so near to what I might have. written had I been undertaking the task in their behalf. As a

matter of fact, Labor platforms and programmes are rarely logical, never scientific, and the most that can be hoped from them is that they shall answer the piirposo of enabling the work-' ers to unite in such numbers as will f;ive them power to do what will be ound to be practicable when the actual power of the State is in their own hands. The co-operative commonwealth, is not to be secured as the result oft conquest, but by a process of construction—and in this constructive work, the Labor unions as well as the Labor party can only operate as builders, and the most that could be expected from a Labor Government is protection froM private interests and the use of the public credit in the growth of the new institutions." SOCIALISM AND LABORISM. And consequently you wish to see Socialists and Laborites working m harmony ? "The practical thing in this connection is to devise some, scheme by which Socialists, without compromising their convictions or abandoning their propaganda may be able to co-operate with all those ready to help do any of those things which all agree ought to be done. At the same time, the Labor bodies cannot afford to do with-, out the enthusiasm and devotion which comes only with the convictiooi characteristic of the convicted and active Socialists. There are many things which all of the useful people in New Zealand are now ready and anxious to have done. The Labor Party cannot afford to stand apart from these basks —neither can the Socialists. Acting together in doing these things a political party will come into existence so related to the responsibilities of government that it must undertake one thing after another in the direction of the Co-op-erative CommonwealtTi as rapidly as the unhindered Socialist propaganda can convince the majority of the people of their wisdom; and further than this it is impossible to go." .-J ,: DOES NEW ZEALAND LEAD? n Would you consider the contention as sound that New Zealand leads the wdrTd in working-class ascendency,, and might establish Socialism before anywhere else ? "I think so. When opportunity has offered of speaking at length I have included all Australasia, and especially New Zealand, as leading the world in social legislation. I have made particular reference to the larger public ownership here, and the complete enfranchisement of the people; together with old age pensions and the conditions incidental to the undeveloped natural resources of a new country— and have always emphasised the fact that this leadership can only be retained by moving rapidly towards a complete co-operative Commonwealth. Socialism is nearer here than in Amer-J ica or anywhere else so .far as Socialism can be established within a British Dependency without the cooperation of the whole Empire. For two reasons—first, because of what has already been accomplished; secondly, because of 'Bhe ■comparatively small number of people, the uniformity of institutions, and the fact that practically only the traditions, the* language and the institutions of Eng-lish-speaking people need to be dealt! with. And thus is Australasia the chosen ground for the sociological laboratory of the world." But what of our attempts at antitrust legislation ? "Let mc say that the only anti-trust legislation that can be effective or worth while—aside from the legislation which should fix the conditions and employment of labor in monopolised industries—the only legislation worth while is that which seeks to make publicly-owned enterprises out of private monopolies. All else is failure and disappointment." INDUSTRIAL UNIONISM. What have you to say respecting Industrial Unionism ? "The whole trend of Labor organisation in America, and in Great Britain and Australia, is in the direction of bringing into a single union all of those employed in an industry, and next bringing them together in a single federation of industries. When this organisation is complete in countries, and an international alliance ia consummated, the ideal of universal labor organisation I would say, will have been realised; <and I believe all the effective activities of the Labor movement are in this direction. This is true of the miners of America (including both precious metal and coal), of the Typographical Union (including all the printing trades) >and the brewery workers. In Great Britain, the last Trade Union Congress decided to

extend the effort to realise this result in British trades unionism) and for some months now a standing committee of the Trades Council in Melbourne has been wrestling with the same problem. It is quite possible that there was a time when separate action from the old unionists on the (pari of industrialists was inevitable in order to make a b«einning and to emphasise the necessity of closer organisation. I am convinced, however, that within the unions themselves the importance of the new development is becoming so widely understood and so jgenerally approved that the beginning of the end of dissension within the unions on this account is already in sight." ADMINISTRATION. Yes, he believed in local governmental activity. Said he: "Go after the smallest subdivision of the body politic first, and win confidence to the movement. Lack of confidence in Labor is the drawback to Labor's acceptance. Fitness must be demonstrated." I instanced Broken Ball as a city for years under Labor control, yet hampered at every step my State legislation. This was to b© overcome, the Professor thought, by trying while doing things to gain increased power. And again the Upper House was in the way. The I/aboi" jParty would jnever lattain to Big ■Things unless it got rid of the Upper House. He kept harking back to the importance of administration. '*The most urgent tiling needed in the Labor movement is training in ad.ministrative work. The Labor roembers in the House of Commons got their experience in municipal work. The object of municipal action is to control the State as part of the iState.'* Then palliatives were worth Ifighting for ? "Palliation is always * worthy fight. A fight for anything we are able to do is better than doing nothing- The greatest <way to get everything is by doing something." SOCIAL REVOLUTION. We discussed many other points of ' working-class interest. Milwaukee and militarism—and these legat promises of full treatment in separate articles: one has appeared, the other will appear. Asked about "Dogmatist's" contribution on the Social Revolution and its attitude upon palliatives the Professor said the article was notable. Nevertheless, "the Social Revolution is a process of constructive work. We escape from the old by building the new- And the master "builder must have experience in building before he can be entrusted with the greatest of structures." We still had survivals of other systems within capitalism. And in the future there would be a rudimentary survival of organs no longer serving any purpose "in the body politic much mm they remained in the human body.'* And here for the tame we leave the ouestion.