Proceedings of the Kohimarama Conference.

Maori Messenger : Te Karere Maori, Volume VII, Issue 14, 31 July 1860, Page 3

Proceedings of the Kohimarama Conference.

{Continued from our last.)

Monday, 16th July, 1860. The Native Secretary (Mr. McLean) opened to-day's proceedings by announcing that a message from His Excellency the Governor had been received. He informed the chiefs that it is cusioinary with the Pakehas, when a message from the Governor is sent down to their Council, for the members thereof to receive it standing. The chiefs of the Conference, together with the European visitors, forthwith rose up and the following message was read:— {Message No. I.) Thomas Goi-e Browne, Governor. The Governor sends some " Rules for the proper administration of Justice" to the Chiefs assembled at Kohimarama for their consideration. These Rules have been carefully prepared by their friend. Dr. Martin, late Chief Justice of New Zealand. Government House, July 16th, 1860. Rules for the proper Administration op Justice. If the whole tribe agree to the rules here written, they will thenceforward be followed iu all proceedings between one Native and another. I. OFFICERS TO GONDUCT PROCEEDINGS. t. Where a Kai-whakawa has not been already appointed, one shall be recommended by thetribefor the approval of iheGovernor. 11. The runanga is to be chosen by the tribe, and the names certified by the Kaiwhakawa to the Governor. Let not the runanga consist of very many persons, not

fewer than five, and from that up to six, seven, &c., even np to twenty, bnt not beyond that. This will depend on the number of intelligent men in the tribe. 111. Two assistants to the Magistrate shall be recommended by the runanga, and approved by the Governor. IV. The work of the Magistrate is the work of a chief. Let him not ask or take money from the people. The Governor and the : .runanga will provide money for his support. * 11. OFFENCES AND PENALTIES. V. The offences to be punished by the Magistrate are the following 4. Assault: The penalty not to be less than five shillings, nor more than five pounds. SSTfyeft: One part of the penalty is the value of the stolen goods; the other part is the fine for the offence. The fine for the offence not to be less than five shillings, nor more than ten pounds. If the stolen goods are restored to the owner, then the fine for the offence is the wholeof: the penalty. 3. Any Malicious Act by which the house or clothing, or property, or food of another person is injured. One part of the penalty is the value ol the property injured. If growing crops be Injured, the value of snch crops at harvest time is to be considered. The other part is the fine for the offence—not less than twenty shillings, nor more than ten pounds, j In the foregoing, cases the penalty may go entirely to the plaintiff or entirely to the Queen, or. partly to the plaintiff and parily to the Queen, according as the Magistrate may direct. The value of the stolen goods, or injured property, should be paid over to the owner thereof.

VI. Other offences to be punished by the Magistrate are these:—

1. Drinking Spirits, or giving spirits to another person to drink. The penalty to be not less than five shillings, nor more than twenty shillings. 2. Eating rotton food, rotton corn or potatoes fcc.; causing another person .to eat such food; making, pits for steeping and preparing such food. The penalty not less than five shillings, or more than twenty shillings. And upon conviction of the offence the Kai-whakawa shall certify to the riinanga, and the runanga shall cause such food or the pits for making the same lo be destroyed. 5. Adultery: The penalty not less than twenty pounds. In cases where the woman has been regularly married, the penalty not less than thirty pounds. As to th p se offences, the penalty goes altogether to the Queen. Formerly the rule was otherwise in case of adultery. The husband recovered compensation in money. But this was seen to be evil. For it is an evil thing that the wife's infidelity should be a means of making money for the husband. Accordingly that rule has been altered. VII. The amount of money to be paid by the offender in each case, up to five pounds, may be fixed by the Magistrate. But above five pounds let the assistants be called in, to sit with the Magistrate and decide the case jointly with him. Let not a heavy penalty depend on the word of one man, but let three agree. VIII. The Magistrate and bis assistants must keep strictly to the rules here written—these offences and these penalties only. Let them not swerve from them to follow their own liking. Wait till more rules are laid down, and then act upon such new rules. IX. Heinous offences, homicide, and grievous bodily injuries and the like, have to be disposed of by the Pakeha. But the Magistrate and his assistants will endeavour to apprehend such offenders, and cause! them to be conveyed to one of the English settlements for trial.

111. CIVIL PROCEEDINGS. X. There are other matters also to be settled by the Magistrate,, thai is to say:Proceedings to recover money or property. These proceedings take a great variety of shapes, for example: - 4. A man'works for another, and the wages are not paid. A man sells goods to another a~hd the price is not paid, c., *c., &c. All proceedings of this sort are founded on some contract between two parties. One of them has not performed bis part of the contract, and so the action is brought. 2. Another source of such proceedings is the wrongful act of some person without any malice, or the negligence of some person without any malice, whereby the crops or properly ofanolherare injured or destroyed. The cause ofaction in such cases is not spoken of as a crime or offence. They are civil disputes, in which each party contends that he is in the right. In dealing with any case of this kind, if it is seen that the plaintiff is in the wrong, there is an end of the matter, but if the defendant be in the wrong, the money or property is to be paid or restored to the plaintiff, and, over and above that, a sum of money not exceeding two shillings in the pound, as damages for the defendant's wrongful witholding of the same. IT. ENFORCING JUDGMENT. XI. If the defendant be very poor, be not severe in exacting the penally, but wait for the lime when be shall get in his props, or even for the next year. Let not tbe man be plundered. If, however, it be seen that he is slack in paying, aud a considerable time has elapsed without payment being made : in that case let the Kai-whakawa cause some of bis food to be taken quietly aud sold publicly before Ihe whole tribe, that the penalty may be taken in the form of money : and let the excess, if any, be returned to him. The man's spade, axe, &c., the means whereby he raises his food, shall not be taken. Also his garments and his bedding shall not be taken. Y. APPEAL TO THE GOVERNOR. XII. If the defendant be distressed by the burden of the penalty imposed by the Magistrate or by him and his assistants, and believe it to be excessive, he may appeal to

the Governor. An English Magistrate will be sent through the district, from time to time, by the Governor to hear such appeals, and report to him. If the Governor think fit be will reduce the amount. But if he sees that the sentence was right, and the appeal groundless, a sum not exceeding five pounds will be added 10 the amount of the sentence. The defendant must uot withhold payment of the money pending the appeal to the Governor. Where the money to be paid does not exceed ten pounds, no appeal will be allowed. i j VI. BOOK OF RECORDS. XIII. A Book of Record shall be kept, wherein the Kai-whakawa shall cause to be written, all the cases brought before him* or 1 before him and bis assistants, the decision j given in each case and the money paid. | This book shall be carefully kept, and shewn to the English Magistrate who is sent by the Governor to visit the district. VII. THE BUSINESS OF THE RUNANGA. XIV. The penalties which are paid to the Queen are to be deposited with such persons as the runanga shall appoint for safe keeping until the end of the year. At the end of each year the runanga will assemble to appropriate the money. Part shall be for ilie Magistrate, part for the assistants, part for ihe Church, Mill, School bouse, &c., or whatever object they shall think b'*st. But let not the money be actually paid away until the Governor shall have assented to the proposal of the rununga. For the Governor's assent is the assent.of the Queen. XV. No business shall be done by ilie runanga unless more than one half of its members are present.

It is also the business of the runanga to watch all evil practices as they grow up amongst the people, and to devise plans whereby such evil practices may be suppressed, arid the people may advance to wards good. . Every such plan, should, be put in writing, and laid before the: Governor. If be. approves of it, it shall thenceforward became a rule to be. followed in the same manner as those which are here written. The end. : r The audience having resumed their seats, : 4he Native Secretary continued thus:— <•"' Thesie rules have been put forth by the Governor for the guidance of those ' tribes swhd have not yet been accustomed to the - administration of English law;: They have rbeeri" carefully prepared by your friend Dr. Martin; with a view to assist the native tribes in outlying districts in administering justice amongst themselves. ' T|iey are not here English law is regularly administered, as, for instance, Ibe Bay of Islands and Port Nicholson. ' Sdme-of the chiefs have expressed a wish that there 1 should be but one law. This is much to be desired by all but is not so? eaisily attained. A child does not grow to man's estate in a day. It took the English ttiny generations before they brbugbt their system of law io its present state. While such a difference exists in the usages and custonis of; the two races in. this country, it is necessary that some of you should be gradually initiated into the elementary principles of law before you can appreciate ill With this object, and with a View of superseding some of the objectionable customs to which n>an\ of your old people still cling, your friend Dr. Martin has taken much pains to prepare these rules. They are simple and easy of comprehension by all. They are not put forth as law, but merely as a set of plain rules to guide your assessors in dealing with cases referred to iheiri where access cannot be had to an Englishcourt. Where it is possible to refer lo an English magistrate, it will always be proper to do .so. The Conference is invited to j eiamine these rules carefully for a few days, and having done so to" offer any j suggestions it may think proper. Should I the chiefs wish to Recommend any addition! qr alteration, they will be able to do so;] and any suggestions made will be submitted ! to the Governor for his consideration. The Native Secretary then read Rules 1, : 2, 3, and 4, making short explanatory | observations on each. !

Ngamoni, (Ngatiwhakaue) Rotorua:— Mr. McLean, give heed to my word. I am thinking about the papers of the past day, and I desire that an expression of opinion (or a throwing of light upon) the papers I handed in to-day may be given, in order that I may be clear on the subject to which they refer. It is not right to reply now to the new words (or message) of the Governor. Rather should you say they are right (the replies to the Governor's opening speech) that my heart may be light: or say that they are wrong, it would be well to know that: or say that the way is made clear, that I may be satisfied. < Native Secretary:—The replies have not yet been received from all the tribes. When they have been sent in, I will read them to you, if you wish it; but it will be proper that the Governor to whom they are addressed should first see them. Te Keene (Ngatiwhatua) Orakei —The idea which originated this pamphlet (alluding to Dr. Martin's Rules), was mine. I have spoken about it already. I did so at Waikato. The husband of the woman will not be content that the money should be given to the Queen. The fine inflicted is not to be handed to the husband, this is wrong*; if it be not so the paramour will be killed (or severely punished). My reason for saying that the adulterer will be killed is this: if the husband of the woman is a chief he will fall back upon the customs of Maori law, and the slave man who has committed adultry with his wife will perish by his hand. Let, therefore, this rule be modified, lest there be nothing to quiet the heart of the husband. This is another point which I do not clearly understand. Two assessors are here spoken of. When I spoke to Mr. McLean on the subject at Waikato, he said, "When we return to the office, this matter shall be considered." Up to the present time I stand alone. Paora stands on his own authority: he is not of your appointment. I am also grieved with the rule which requires that no a&sessor should demand a fee. I have been performing the duties of my office for one whole year and two half years. It is said that the Governor

and the council will grant money for his support. I entered upon this office in 1858, and so on to 1859, and now we have reached the year 1860 this law is publish-ed,-"Let no man receive a fee." I am grieved at this. I will say no more. Paora, T uhaere, (Ngatiwhatua, Orakei) —My word is the same. What I look at is a want of clearness in those rules ; the obscurity is in the fines for offences. The fines for great and small offences are mingled together in such a manner that it is impossible to distinguish the fine for the greater offence from that for the less. There is a want of clearness in those rules. I think that the rule for small offences and for greater ones should be clearly set forth. When the offence is of magnitude, let the fine be great. Sudden outbursts of passion are a great offence: therefore let the punishment be great. The offence of murder is easily managed—that is taken to the Supreme Court. My disapproval is directed against the rule by which greater and : lesser offences are punished by a fine of equal amount. That which I deem a great offence, is the sin connected with women. It is not right that the fine should go to the Queen, and that they should not be divided. There is anger in that: there is evil in that: because the lack of compensation added t:o the sin of that woman will greatly increase the grief of his (the husband's) heart. Therefore I say let J that rule be expunged; let it be rubbed out; let the rule be made, clear, lest men do evil. This also I say: let the Maori enter the Pakeha's Councils for the purpose of laying down laws. The Maories are an impertinent people; they will not heed the reproof of their chiefs; when reprimanded their eyes flash with rage upon the chiefs. These are the faults which appear to me; other rules will do for they are good. I except only those twoi: the great and small offences, and the sin of women. Makarini, (Ngatiawa, Te Awa-o-te-Atua): —There are the replies which have been prepared to-day. It is my opinion that the laws should be considered at some future time: or perhaps they may be read over by each tribe individually. Let these come first: the laws by and bye.

Tango Hikuwai, (Ngapuhi, Kerikeri) —Natives and Europeans, this is my word to you. I am going to my own place. lam going, I am returning, my father is dead, my sister is dead, and I have also to accompany my sick friend Wi Hau. Enough, do not enquire for me Mr. Mc Lean. This is my word, all my thoughts are expressed: that word is ended. If my words are approved by the Governor, let them be printed that the tribes may see them. It would not be right to print them immediately: let them appear in the newspaper. With reference to what that man said about the payment of assessors, this is my opinion. Each work brings its own reward. If a man is appointed to the office of an assessor, let him receive his reward. lam an assessor, and have been such for three years. I received for two years, for one year I received £5. I think that if the salary had been £SO it would have been right. Consider the meetings that assemble at my place: all my money is expended for the purchase ofnour: and at Wi Hau's place it is the same. Therefore I say let the salary be a proper one. I will say no more on that subject. O people of the South! listen to what I now say to you. If the Governor and his friend quarrel, let us sleep. Let us not be stirred up. If one of us takes part with Teßangitake, this Council will be disgraced. We should rather honour God, the Queen, and the Governor, and all the people: thus shall be said of us that we act according to the law. Those words are ended. So also if a man commit an offence, and kill a European, or if he kill a Maori, let him be punished by the law; if he is withheld from Justice it will be said that he is not a child of the law. I refer to the great offences ; the lesser offences can be considered by the assessors. It is true that the laws have been laid down in all places. Do not let my friends enquire after me. lam now going to my own place. Be ye loving towards the Queen, the Governor, and the Europeans. If any man takes upon himself to side with Te Rangitake, then it it will not be said of this Council that it is a true one. Rather let us sleep upon the earth: they will settle the point at issue between them: let us continue to sleep on. I have no more to say. j

Let us unite ourselves to the Governor. I will not forget the side of the Europeans. For five years will I consider these things, then will I enter into the English Council. I wish to express my views to this Council. It may be that the Governor will send down a proposal that some of us should assist him in the Taranaki war. I do not know what the Council will say to such a proposal, therefore I wish to leave my word here before I go away, and to say if the Governor should ask me I amreadytogo. Hone Ropiha Tamalia, (Ngatikinohaku, Kawhia): —Now then, let me answer your speech, because you are returning home. If you were remaining to the close of our proceedings it would have been well, whereas now that you are going away, let me address you. Let your words be true because you belong to Ngapuhi. I know the works of Ngapuhi. They may be true, or they may be false. When you go back, 1 admonish your people not to touch evil, i You are returning immediately; that is j why I say to you, take these things that Ngapuhi may hear about them, because, the old man Te Waka, is absent. We cannot tell now whether it will be good or whether it will be evil, because I know Ngapuhi that they are a disorderly people. Let it not be heard by the tribes after your departure that you have gone wrong. Let your course be a just one, and let it be clear. What you say in this house is as sacred as an oath, therefore consider your words and what you have pledged the Ngapuhi to you have spoken on behalf of them all. This meeting will hold you to your words. Tango Hikuwai:—lt is true I have given an oath. I will reply to your speech. My word refers only to the tribes connected with me, that of Kingi Wiremu Tareha, that of Wiremu Hau, that of Riwhi Hongi; the feelings of the inland tribes I cannot express: my words refer to my own side only. Te Waka Te Ruki, (Ngatimahanga, Whaingaroa):—l have not yet spoken, though Wiremu Nero, is absent, and Potatau dead. Let me give expression to their words. Let me speak the, words of Wiremu. When the Gospel was introduced Wiremu grasped it.

Waikato was waging war against Taranaki; the Gospel was conveyed thither and Taranaki was saved. Wiremu returned home, Waikato was fighting against Rotorua; they would not entertain proposals of peace; he returned home. Then he went to Te Rauparaha, to Kapiti} when he came back, and Potatau had seen him, he also went to Te Rauparaha. The result was that peace was made on the Maori side. Then he directed his attention to the Pakehas. The thought with reference to the first Governor was Wiremu Nero's. They two were married : to the second Governor they were married: to the third Governor they were married: to the fourth Governor they were married. The thoughts of Potaitau were closely united to those of the Governor, even until his death. This was his word: "Be loving to the European people, and to the Maori people. No more on that subject. This is another. Some Europeans speak well, others speak evil, some speak proudly ; one of them said.to Tamihana Tarapipipi, " The So-.. yereignty of the land has been. your patlT Ts ~ under my thighs." Potatau is dead. Tarapipipi lives, and the parent, Te Heuheu. It is my opinion that this evil is with me, with Waikato. There is no Waikato now to Wiremu Nero, because Waikato has gone to Te Rangitake. I will return to my previous words, that is the impertinence of the Europeans to Tarapipipi. [By the Native Secretary: What is the European's name ? The words are heard, the name is not mentioned.] The Pakehas say " the Maori men are as dirt under the feet of the white men." These are the words which grieved the heart of Tamihana. Hoani Ropiha Tamaha, (Ngatikinohaku, Whaingaroa) : Look here all of you. This is mine, the white one, the other is the Governor's (referring to two books which he held in his hand). Listen all ye people of the runanga—Te Rauparaha, Hohepa, Matene, —because we are one and the same now; we have all become one. Listen all of you. This white book represents me. If you do not understand me, I will explain myself. Commencing at Waikato, and including Te Akaii, Whangaroa, Aotea, Kawhia, Marokopa,

Mokau, Urenui, and Waitara, I will make that my boundary. I am white (or blameless) as regards my people Westwards, within the Waikato. Look! There is no stain from the earth on me. lam wearing no garment of my tribe. lam white (or blameless) for those are all my people. As this whiteness so let your light be, that it may shine in the sight of the people, for the Governor said "earnestly praying that God may grant His blessing on your deliberations and guide you in the right path; I leave you to the free discussion of the subjects I have indicated, and of any others you may think likely to promote the welfare of your race." ; USrQSKs, (addressing the Revd. Mr. Burrows who was present) you understand the meaning of that word, " Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." I say this because of the Governor's words, "I pray earnestly, &c." lam blameless as regards my people; but I will explain it to our Minister. It is on this account that I remain here. Had I been black (evil) then I should have been driven away, ;i^) Qv^io. ; thfe. I Treat^.,Qf. : Wai« tangi :lt was In' Governor Hokson's time. In the days of Governor Fitzroy it was violated, because it was misunderstood. One hand was crooked, the other was straight. The crooked or left hand stirred up evils; I mean wars. Thus came the war at Kororareka. The crooked hand was Hone Heke; the straight hand was Te Waaka. You, the Southern tribes, said that Te Waaka was foolish and that Heke was right, and you said so to the very end. Let me say to you, Te Waaka was right, and Heke was wrong, even to the present time. Thus it is that he is still Te Waaka, that his name still lives; the Governor now regards the whole people with favor. Let me also speak about Paora's matter. Paora knows all about it, because he is a land seller. He knows more about it than I do, for it was he who sold Taurarua. I now know for the first time, that there is a difficulty or dispute respecting Taurarua; I had supposed that Taurarua must belong to the Queen, and if so, Paora has nothing to do with that land; houses have long stood there, the place is covered with Pakeha houses. It is well for me to speak thus, because lam speaking before Paora's

face. Those houses are carved houses; the carvings are in stone. This is all I have to say. Matene Te Whiwhi, (Ngatiraukawa) Otaki:—Now, Mr McLean, there is nothing more to be said. The word of the Governor has gone forth, that the Maori chiefs should assemble here, to express their opinion on the message of the Governor, that the wishes of the Native people should be uttered in his presence. They have said that we must dwell for ever under the shadow of the Queen. I have but one thing to say : this, O Mr. McLean, is what I think, there is no turning back. I cannot speak for the intentions of this tribe or that tribe ; but I speak for my own. We are pledged and will take care that the pledge shall be redeemed. No more on that, subject. Let this plan (the assembling of Native chiefs) be made permanent by the Governor and yourself; my reason for urging this is, that it may be to us a means of realizing the advantages of our position as subjects of the Queen, and as a means of cementing our attachment and making firm our loyalty to the Queen, that we may truly dwell under the shadow of the Queen; that we may recognize the Governor as our father, and that we may feel the warmth emanating from the Law as our protector. We hear the Queen's name mentioned, but we desire also to feel her warmth. By this plan only will the union of the two races be confirmed; by this will they grow together. I will not assume the possession of much knowledge at the present time; in future years, perhaps I may attain to some knowledge of the civilized institutions of the Pakeha, but let this plan be continued and made permanent. This is my reason for saying so. If the sun shines upon the vegetation of the earth's surface, the herb springs under its genial warmth, the plants grow and produce fruit; so also in incubation, if warmth of the mother be constantly imparted to the eggs, they are hatched, and the young chickens come forth, but the egg which slips out of the nest (or from under the warm feathers of the mother) dies. It is for our parent to take thought for us. Takihaumene,(Ngatiwhakaue) RotorUa: Tam not a fool. Tam a Queen's man

and on this account you trampled on my words. There is no other word one way or the other way; it is the Queen alone. What Matene has said is good. This world is full of evils. I shall have nothing to do with those things. What have we to do with those evils ? I commenced the speeches the other day, saying, "only the Queen, only the Governor (for us)." I now ask for the papers (referring to the replies to His Excellency's address) that they may be read. What are those other matters that are being discussed? Who shall say that evil will not grow ? Evil will grow. The Maories will cherish it. The main points are the Queen and the Governor. lam now fully satisfied, because I have heard Te Whareheihei (Taiapo) consent to the Queen. Now my people have fully consented to this " tikanga." Tomika Te Mutu, (Ngaiterangi,) TaurangaListen, that I may express my disapprobation of the proceedings of this runanga (alluding to the Waikato league). My land has been written (handed over) to the King; it was a piece of impertinence. The name of this land is Tapatai. It commences at Kumikumi, thence to Kahutakiwaru, to Pawhakahorohoro, to Kaikakaroro, to Ohiriro, thence to Te Maunga, and thence out to Arapowhatu. If it had been taken by my ancestor (there might be some ground). The object of the writing was that I should be put down, and that he should be exalted. I shallpresently be troublesome about this matter. In my opinion the ' mana' of the land is with myself. Kotorerua was the name of my ancestor. HoromonaToremi,(Ngatiaukawa,) Otaki:—We have not written a reply to the Governor's address. What explanation j have we to seek ? seeing that we have entered (on che Queen's side) long since. I have nothing to ask about; because i these tribes, Ngatitoa and Ngatiraukawa, have sided with the Government. The Missionaries came first and the Governor came afterwards. I have cast in my lot there. I shall not turn backwards. Why should I seek for any explanation ? With you, with the Pakehas, shall be the thought for us; you shall confirm us. There shall be no turning away (from you), because your wisdom came from God. As to us, we are a foolish people,

a people void of understanding. I have one word to say: —The Lord commanded John (the Apostle), saying : —" This is my commandment, that ye love one another." lam reminded that it is through the Law that we love one another. Another thought of mine is, that our language has become yours. It will be for you, for the Pakelia, to inter- j pret it. Here is another matter, Mr. | McLean. It is my desire that we should I participate in, and be protected by your power (mana). I am not in any doubt about the matter, for it was the first Governor who appointed, and Governor Grey who confirmed Matene, as our Magistrate. All I have to do is to support him. Te Ahukaramu, (Ngatiraukawa,) Otaki: —The Christianity which I have adopted came in its completeness from England,' and landed at Otaki. There are the commandments—ten of them. I am a stranger in this town ; but I know that at Otaki there are ten commandments, and at Wellington there are ten commandments. Ido not understand these things hat all are speaking about. All I have to say is this God comes first, secondly, the Queen, thirdly, the Governor. I cannot see the thoughts of Te Rangitake. I shall continue faithful to these three (viz., God, the Queen, and the Governor). My friend Potatau respected the Queen, and the Government. You say let the Queen's men be separate. If any of the tribes should set up a Maori King, then let them be separated from the Queen's £ mana.' Te Manihera, (Ngapuhi,) Wangarei:— Pakehe gentlemen resident in New Zealand, Maori chiefs of New Zealand also, listen that I may speak to you about what I have seen in the paper (Dr. Martin's Rules). It is directed that when a payment has to be made by one man for the seduction of another's wife, one part shall go to the Queen, and the other part to the runanga, leaving nothing for the husband of the seduced. Under this law, I (supposing me to be the offender) should be killed by the woman's husband. It would be better to divide the payment, and to letthe husband have one part, and the Queen the other ; thus I should escape the anger of the injured party. If, however, he receives no part of the payment, then the husband will

be dissatisfied, and evil will result; therefore, I say let it "be divided, tliat the man's anger may be pacified. If he is not pacified, he will be troublesome; let him be quieted with a part of it- His anger, would be real, and he would probably commit some act of violence, therefore, I say again, let him be pacified. Enough about that. European Gentlemen and Maori Chiefs of New Zealand, here is another subject. Although I am a Magistrate (Native Assessor) if I should do wrong let me be punished by the law. If my sinbe a great one, then let my punishment be severe, but if trivial, then let my punishment be proportionate. I do not say that lam a good man. There is no knowing what day I may offend ; but there is the law to punish me. I speak for my side (or tribe). Let each tribe take its own course. Native Secretary: What I have to say is this;—you have been requested to take these rules (Dr. Martin's) under consideration. If you should think it desirable that the payment be divided, then state your views on the subject to the Governor. But consider the matter carefully and turn it over in your minds. These matters having been dealt with by the assessors, they are more familiar with them than the people generally, and are betterpreparedto forman opinion. These are not absolute laws: they are only a commencement. You should take them home with you to your houses, and then let each tribe consider them, and suggest any alterations they may think desirable. Eruera Kahawai, (Ngatirangiwewehi,) Rotorua:—l wish to propose that the written replies to the Governor's address should now be read. We have accepted the Governor's views, and we have tied them up in our bundle to carry away with us. I mean the words of the Governor made known to usin the midst of this conference. We will look into the meaning of the address in the days that are to come; I assume that the Governor's thoughts are all finished, that there is nothing remaining. It has been said that he shall be pur father. His words have been accepted, and they have been packed up to be carried home with us. His words are like one's pipe; the heart never forgets the pipe j even though it

sleeps, it does not forget the pipe. Iji like manner, we shall never forget the Governor's words. Now, for the first .time I see these old men—Tnkihaumene, -T aiapo, and N gahuruhu.ru,—enteringthis " tikanga," and siding with the laws of the Queen. We,the younger men,have already learnt to distinguish between right and wrong. I have finished on that subject. With respect to the rules relating to the women, we, the young men, think that in the case of married women it is a serious matter, because man and wife are joined according to the holy ordinance of God; as to the case of unmarried women, we do not look upon these cases as serious; cases of this kind can be arranged without much difficulty. Wi Waka, (Ngatikahungunu,) Waira.rapa:—My speech (word) "is one of . not much importance—a Maori speech. The subjects relating to the Queen arc understood. In former times, in the days of mv ancestors, I was in sin,—l was sitting in filth. I was like the progeny of Rangi and Papa, namely, Tane Tuturu, Tane Pepeke, Tane TJetika, Tane Neha, Tane Te Waiora and Tane Nuiarangi. Those beings lay hidden in the womb of their parent without life. Tane Nuiarangi first saw the light of day. He saw it through the armpit of Rangi, and he saw that that would be a place for them to live in. Then Tane Nuiarangi said Let us turn and kill our parents. They then cut two poles, known as Tokohurunuku and Tokohururangi, or Rakau-tuke and Rakau-koki. Then Paia with his back thrust up Rangi crying, "Tane i titokona, titokona—Tane i hapainga—hapainga Rangi was lifted up on high, and Papa lay beneath. Then the light of day became manifest and nlan had a dwelling place. I was in the mire, Christianity came and I lived. The Government of the Queen is for the body. The (teachings of the) Missionaries are for the soul. Here is another matter. The Governor is like ; when Tamatea burnt up the weeds and brambles from the surface of Rangi, man then became possessed of iand, and lived. Now let the Governor do the same ; let him burn up the evils, if ; This is another subject. Do not have saotber Gs-;af?rg3s§ fcersj hi ,

ference be at Wellington. Your kaingas are your own; let me have it (the Conference) next time, that the people at the head of the fish (the South) may be known. (This refers to the old tradition of New Zealand having been fished out of the sea by Maui.) Through its being here the Chiefs from the South are not present, but let it be held at Wellington next time, that the opinion of those at the head of the fish may be elicited. Come to Wellington that we may find out what things require setting right, and that we may ascertain who are the Queen's men. This is the unanimous desire of the Head of. the Fish. Let the Queen have her men, and let the King have his. Let the Queen secure her men. If you disapprove, lam speaking in the presence of the Governor. What I say is this, let Port Nicholson be the place for the discussion of these matters, that the hidden things may be brought to light. As to the intentions of the Queen, they are known. Henare Pukuatua, (Ngatiwhakaue) Rotorua:—This is my speech. We do not consider ourselves competent to make suggestions for the promotion of the cause of allegiance to the Queen ; we say that we are an ignorant people. Let u» talk this matter over amongst ourselves that we may get light upon it. My heart is now glad because the old men have consented to the Queen's Government. These are the fathers of Rotorua who shall uphold the laws of the Queen. Now, O Governor, make known to us the law about married women; lay down the law for small offences, and the law for great offences. 4-Native Secretary :—Think these matters over ! Consider them well! Search them thoroughly,—and then give utterance to your thoughts thai the Governor may hear them. The Governor has not yet read all that you have said. This week we shall take under consideration some of the subjects that brought us together. The Governor has perhaps some other matter to bring before you. We will now close to-day's proceedings. Wi Te Tete, (Kapotai), Bay of Islands:— Let me have the last word Listen ye Pakehas, and ye Maori Chiefs ! Listen to my speech ! We have now become one people under the Queen. Listen to what I have to say about Wiremu Kingi's war. I ask, How shall we testify our adherence to the Go-

vernment ? If we do love the Governor, we shall have met to good purpose. Listen all of you ! If the Governor gives the word that lamtogo to Taranaki, then I go. If not, then Ido not go there. We shall not be deaf to the words of the Governor. Meeting adjourned to 17th July.

Tuesday, Jdlt \7, 1860. The Chiefs having assembled, the Native Secretary opened the proceedings with the following remarks:— Yesterday you gave your atlention to the message of the Governor submitting for your consideration a code of Rules. Do not be hasty in forming an opinion for or against tbem, but consider carefully whether they are adapted to your wants. Some of you now present are invalids, and have now for the first time taken part in this runanga; others, again, have only recently arrived, and have not yet spoken. Let those chiefs speak first that we may hear their opinions. 1 bate just received two letters which I will now read to you.—(Letters from Katipa and Hikaka read accordingly.) These letters contain the latest information. We will postpone the discussion commenced yesterday on the subject of the rules till you have further considered them. Hira Kingi (Ngatinaho) of Aolea, then rose and said: I shall now speak to you on the first (of Dr. Martin's rules), namely, "Where an assessor has not been already appointed, one shall be recommended by the tribe for the approval of the Governor." In the year 1859, in the month of May, a large meeting was held at Makaka, one hundred and seventy persons being present. Mr. Skinner presided at that meeting. When the meeting was over we sen i a letter to the Governor and Mr. McLean, but we did not receive any answer. The meeting assembled again in December, with Mr. Wallis as president. After the meeting a message (or letter) was dispatched. The Minister and the people waited, but no answer came back. In the month of January we came to Kaoroa. Mr. Wallis was our president. After that meeting too we sent a messenger, and we wailed, but no word came back. Now, we have ceased waiting. You have sent us the Laws, but there is no one now to administer those Laws. Had some explanation reached us, it would be clear now. By Mr. McLean : You may be correct in what you say. The Governor's rule \yith

respect to the appointment of Assessors, is, not to act hastily. When someone has been recommended to him for the office of Assessor, he waits for a year or two, in order to be satisfied of . bis qualifications before appointing. liim permanently. For this reason, the request of the Aotea . Natives was not immediately complied with. Your complaint about not having received any answer id your letters may. be just. If your letters'were received arid not answered, ~ yfe are to blame. However, when T was at Whaingaroa, the Aotea Natives intimated to their wish that you should be appointed an Assessor-for them, and I at ~ once;wrote to the Governor, suggesting your : appointment to that office. .!=. Hira Kkigi then proceededl shall now i, speak of the srd head under the 6th rule, relating to adultery, which requires that the amount of the penally should be not less than Twenty pounds. In cases where the woman has been regularly married, the i penalty to be riot less than Thirty pounds. ...As to these offences, the penalty goes . altogether to the Queen, that is, to the runanga. lam perplexed about this paragraph; which states that the One should go to the Queen and to the runanga, and no portion of it to the husband. If the rule is .to. be that the penalty must go to the Queen and the runanga only, it will be wrong. If no part of it is to be given to me, to the man who has been properly 1 to his wife, then Ishall be grieved, and shall take vengeance on the mail who bas seduced my wife. Tamihana Te Rauparaha, (Ngatiioa,)Otaki: —My friends, my heart rejoices on account of this arrangement (the conference) . Perhaps it will not be fully understood by us, yet you will have manifested, in the sight of us all, your good sense, and furnished an example for your friends to imitate, and we, 100, in like manner, shall set an example to our friends. The customs of former days have been abandoned, and will, in future, betrampled under our feet. We are now following a new path, and a right one. It is this which causes the heart to rejoice. The fathers have disappeared. We are their children, who now meet to discuss questions; therefore, I say, let us not be inactive in this Council. I am grieved about ibis new thing. I mean this new name—the Maori Us tendency is to cause division and ill feeling between the Mjtories and the Europeans*

Its tendency is to lower both Maories. I say let this move pressed. Did the idea origi Maories themselves, or ha\ instrueted in this mischievc Europeans? At all events, name be suppressed, and lei and the Maories live together Let the Queen be Queen for and New Zealand. It was noi ground that the title of Queei and of New Zealand was assu let our views be clear. Let ii posed that the Pakehas wis (oppress) the Maories. It is Pakeha wishes to raise the 3 therefore very much grieved 01 this movement. Our old Maoi at the bottom of it, and it has t attract our younger brothers changed our clothing, and cau skin mat to be laid aside? Th will lead to our debasement; say, let it be suppressed. IfW be angry because of the suppr< new name let us not be afraid. Tukihaumene and the Ngatiw Lei this King he put down, coming divided amongst oursel of this King. It therefore ap we shall be of this opinion, C Conference, that we must Governor, and that we should a of advantages offered to us arii in the superiority of the Paket Let us abandon Maori custon the superior condition of the Pa is not slavery. down. Even thougKthe Kin. been hoisted at our place 'Otak cut down, it shall never be alio 1 It is calculated to produce ill-vi sion, and if the Maori is sep; the Pakeha, he (the Maori himself wrong. The Queen's s only flag. We will hold our the protection of the Queen. I account of this Conference; al Kararnu has taken part in it. that others, the chiefs of this pla here, that we might be unitei Pakehas resident here are theirs since that the Pakeha settled at * 1 name of King. Did it originate Pakeha or with the Maori? opinion is that it was the P originated it/ I believe that it i | Ol Charles Davis's. The fault li<

Pakehas. I think that Pakeha ought to be tried. He is probably still here. (This should be done) so that the Maori be not charged when it is the fault of the Pakeha. Now, friends, that you have come forward to make things clear, let our path be cleared that our way may be open before us. Matene Te Whiwhi, (Ngat'itoa), Otaki : What I have to say is not very important and will require few words. I have on previous occasions expressed my views. I have been thinking that as the Governor has united the two races, and has said that the Maori and the Pakehashall be brought close together; when a Pakeha kills a Maori the Maories should take part with the Pakehas in dealing with the offence; if a Maori kill a Pakeha, then let the Maories and Pakehas be associated together (to try the case); let them be bound together as in one bundle. (Th'is refers to mixed Juries). Hakitara, ' Ngapuhi,) Bay of Islands: This is my speech. I speak of the proceedings of the present time. Enough. I came from the extremity of the land. I have two or three tribes, namely: Ngapuhi, Te Rarawa, and Aupouri. You, Mr. McLean, are my friend. "May the Holy Spirit biess and protect you for ever and ever !" This is all I have to say. t Te Makarini, (Ngatiawa,) Te Awa-o-te-\\tua: Tamihana! What you and Matene have said is correct. I lay the blame upon our parent the Governor. You, Tamihana, lhqJting. I find fault with our parent. laactivity ! inactivity! was the fault. It was because they were left to themselves that Waikato was led to seek some means of protection for their lands and properly. This is where we find fault with our parent. Had he called us together, as at present, at an earlier period, it would have been well; the tree has now grown to maturity, and it cannot be broken. I am in doubt as to whether tlie movement originated with us or with the Pakehas themselves. What can we do in the matter? Ngamoni, (Ngatiwhakaue,) Maketu: (Addressing the last speaker): You have found out the Governor's error. You alone see where the Governor is wrong. (Addressing Mr. McLean:) I have given you my goods —the treasures of my ancestors—namely, the [.atupoummu, and the kurutongarereica. My treasures are not of to-day; they are from the day of Tuhourangi (his ancestor) by whom they were left to Uenuku-kopako (his son), and by him to Whakaue. Let these meres be split, that you may find out I

their quality. It: is necessary to cut the pounamu (block of green stone) to ascertain whether the grain be a bad one, or a kahurangi (first quality). If my treasures be regarded as of little value, still let them be sent to the Queen ; and if they are rejected by her she may return them. I have withheld : nothing. Now, my friends, Mr. Mc Lean and Mr. Smith, I have banded all my treasures over to you. Whether they be good or whether they be bad, let my words reach the Queen; for my great treasures are in my words. Mr. McLean interposed: Do you refer to your letter (reply, to the Governor's Address)? All the ; replies will be placed together and forwarded to the Governor for his perusal. When he has seen them they will be returned to us. Ngamoni replied: Now that you have said that, nothing more remains to be spoken. Te Karamu Kahukoti, (Ngatipaoa,) Hauraki: Salutations to you men of the East! and away to the South! Listen to the words that I shall utter in the hearing of this assembly. This land is mine. When the Pakeha came here I did not tell him to depart. I laid hold of him and drew him ashore. It was my friendly feeling towards the Pakeha that led me to do this. I make this precious treasure (the Pakeha) fast. Deny the truth of my words if you can; even though he swear at me, yet it was I who pulled the Pakeha ashore and enabled him to land. Say not that lam standing without. Will one garment suffice as a covering? Let there be three garments, then there will be warmth. If one be taken away, or if there be left only the garment next to the skin, then cold will be felt. My hands are clean. this have your altentiou. lam quite clean. It was not my proposal to have a King for this land; for I had become incorporated with the Pakeha. The crj. fpr lbis King came from the South. "Te fieiiheu look it up and brought it to Maungatautari. It then obtained fooling in the centre (of the Island). Had it proceeded from us here in in the North, it would be our concern. I mean, had it been true that I was favorable to the King Movement. It was you people from a distance who set it afoot. 1 am sitting under the Queen's wings {protection). We have one style of dress (i.e. identity of customs). lam here alone. Had there been two or three of us (of my tribe) here, then we should have something to say. Wiremu Pohe, (Ngapuhi,) Whangarei: Maori Chiefs and Pakehas! What Te Karamu has said is correct. So is your speech

Matene, and yours Tamihana! Heke's conduct was parti-colored. Robinson's case had been long made clear. Maketu suffered. (Referring toMaketu's execution for the murder of Robinson's family.) We are bound with one girdle. It is not a Maori girdle but a golden one; therefore it will not part asunder. In other words, we are surrounded by a fence, onstructed not with puriri and totara posts, but of iron. If a person attempts to leap over the rail of this fence we know what the result will be. Let us keep within this fence for ever and ever. Now, there is a practice which causes us much trouble. We have " tauas" for curses. This is following up Maori custom. We have " tauas" on account of the desecration of sacred places ; this too is Maori custom. And on account of the violation of women we have "tauas." This is Maori custom. Now that we have entered this new order of things, and have been bound in this golden girdle of the Queen we should all consent to abandon all these customs. Here is another matter. Let not the words of this Conference be directed to this movement,We know not whether it will increase, or whether it will decrease. (Holding out a stick:) lam bending this slick to and fro in order to straighten it. In my opinion the Governor must straighten the stick, then it will be straight. Himiona, (Tuhourangi,) Tarawera: It is now the turn of the strangers to speak. We arrived here in the middle of your proceedings. We were not here when they commenced. Now it is not well to commence when a meal is half over; for when the meal is concluded, those who were present at the commencement are satisfied, whereas those who arrived later are still hungry. The proper way is to commence together and to finish together. If this Conference is to be prolonged, we will leave our speeches for to-morrow, because we are new arrivals, and lest words be spoken by us without due consideration. I have finished. Pauro (Tawera,): The proceedings of this Conference go upon one leg. I mean by this expression, the younger brother is with the and the elder is with the Government. The Arawa tribes jump together (are united). Ngapuhi go into it hands and feet (thoroughly). I saw in the newspaper where the Governor was wrong; the Governor was sent here to cherish, not to fight. I will not say at present that I shall enter on the Queen's side. I shall remain neutral, holding only to Good-will Christianity, and the Church of Home. '

Wiremu Paiene, (Ngaiterangi,)Tauranga: Wehavehadour say. Now let the new arrivals speak. I have one word to say about the rule for adultery (in Dr. Martin's rules). In my opinion, if this be acted upon, men's lives will be taken, because it does not allow the husband any portion of the fine, and there is nothing to appease him. The saying is a just one; —"Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due." I have another word to say. One of the rules relates lo steeped corn and other putrid food ; but perhaps that may be the favorite food of some one, and who, if deprived of it, may feel himself aggrieved. Toinika TeMutu, (Ngaiterangi,)Tauranga: What both of you(TamihanaandMatene) have said is true. Tills, agair will be big or littfelis*we choose to rifate it; indeed the King will disappear. Let them (Waikato) carry out their own scheme. Do not let us support it. I am an orphan. I am a remnant escaped from his weapon. His mark is on my shoulder. It was the pakeha's coming to my place, which enabled me to shew my nose. Powder and firearms became plentiful, and I was saved. I have opened ray budget. I have nothing more to say.

Parakaia tePouepa,(Ngatiraukawa,) Otaki: lam not yet satisfied. The grievance I brought with nie still exists. We have heard nothing but fair speeches; but the remedy which I have sought for my grievance I have not yet found. I had supposed that the combined influences of Christianity and the Queen's authority had made the ocean between us and England a smooth highway upon which women and children might travel in safety. On the contrary the mischief has been contrived by Auckland. This evil is the work of the Council of Auckland. As to rho KiiftS nm iv; * hrmt • the Governor said it was child's play and would soon come to a.i end. Instead of that, it has brought trouble upon me, for the life of Christianity has been undermined. In this very year, 1860, the evil came from Auckland. It was not you, Mr. McLean, for you were away at the time. This is the second wrong. On the 25th day of January (last), a proclamation by the Governor was written in Auckland, and sent to Taranaki. Shall I repeat it? (Mr. McLean replied "Go on."A, " Governor's soldiers are about to begin their work, fighting with the Maories at Taranaki. Now therefore, I, the Governor, do hereby proclaim and publicly declare that the fighting law shall be in force inTaranaki. Given by my hand and put forth under the Great

Seal of the Colony of New Zealand." In the month of February it reached us at Otaki. On the 27th of March.we learnt that men had fallen in battle at Taranaki. Three pakehas brough tus these papers; there weie three copies of the proclamation. It was read aloud in the hearing of all the people. The Ngatiraukawa cast it about in their minds..; Some said Why ! the Governor is fighting!" And they asked " What is the cause of his going to war?" It was this p^ use d a division amongst us, which remains to this day. Let me address myself Jo the people here present. We have long since talked about good things, and during these years now past, but we have never been called upon, to take these subjects undtr our consideration. Let us get through this trouble (the Taranaki war), then I will give my attention to the Governor's good words. 9fr* McLean, let this evil be cleared away What is death to you ? (alluding to losses in fi e ld) but our death (is a serious matter). W you expect me to bring it to an end? I Md imagined that it was for you to put an fendtoit. Let this evil be removed out of yay. Work cannot proceed If the throat is constantly affected by a speech will not be clear; rather Jet the obstruction be removed.

Ngapomate, (Ngatiwkakaue,) Hotorua • Listen you of the Conference, the new comers, and you others! t will hold up to you my grievance that the Conference may cpfiSider it. The grievance is between RoJpfua arid Taupo. Now observe : this is Tutukau, and there is Rotokafcahi. Henare Te . "ukuatua is a party concerned in this grievance. There was a piece of land which Henare considered to belong to his mother a?™* wept to survey it (to mark boundanes). This resulted in the death of fortv petsons. By placing ourselves under the Queeii s protection we shall get this grievance -il l % ueen administers a reThat disease exanainvolving Kangihinea; se«5 e « we of the . frawa suffered aid one hunmen perished. The healer who should Tarawera, but I was not made whole. Land at Te Ariki was another of f he death of those people, this sort of thing is constantly going on. There was a healer at Hotorua who should have restored me, put I was not made whole. I therefore bring my grievance here in order that the Queen may find a remedy. [Here the speaker was interrupted bv Tukihauwene and others <uid sat down.]

Te Irimana, (Ngatiporou,) Wharekahika: Friends, I will repeat to you an anecdote which has become a proverb. There is a place in my district called Waimahuru. The natives: of that place never hear any news. News which is heard in all the other settlements this year will not reach that place for the next four or five years. The reason is this: the highroad passes the village a long way inland; the other way is by sea in canoes. It is only when the inhabitants, of that village visit other places that they get news. Enough about that. This illustrates our position in our district. : Long after the pakehas had come into most pf.tbe native districts,: and the people of those districts bad heard; all about the pakehas, my district was still uninformed. My younger brother happened to go to the Bay of Islands in a pakeha vessel; then for the first time did he seethe pakehas and heard their to Ik. He brought back with him Te Wiremu Parata (the present Bishop Williams) who is still residing with us. The Governor has visited every district but mine. The inhabitants of every other place have seen the and have heard his words, but we have not seen the Governor nor heard his word. It is his invitation to the Chiefs to come and listen to his words which has brought us here, and now we have both seen him and heard him speak. We now hear his words, and we shall carry them home with us as something to be acted upon now and henceforth. Meeting adjourned to the 18lh instant.

Wednesday, July 18, 1860 . Tlie Native Secretary announced the receipt of a message from His Excellency the Governor, and proceeded to read; — Message No 2. Thomas Gore Browne, Governor.— - In his opening speech the Governor assured the Chiefs assembled at Kohiwarama, that the will be maintained invToiateH)y Her Majesty's Government. He now invites them to consider the difficulties and complications attending the ownership of land, and trusts they will be able to devise some plan for removing or simplifying them. - It is well known that nearly all the feuds and wars between different tribes in New Zealand have originated in the uncertain tenure by which land is uow held. Very many disagreements would in future be avoided if the possession ot land from any

fixed date—say, 20 years,—-were recognised as giving the possessor a good title, Such a limitation would be in accordance witlvthe law which prevails in England. It is very desirable that some general principles regulating the boundaries of land belonging to different tribes should be generally received and adopted ; for, until the rights of property are clearly defined, progress in civilisation must be both slow >m<l uncertain When disputes arise between different tribes in reference to land, they might be referred fc» a committee of disinterested and influential chiefs,' selected at a conference similar to the one now held at Kohimarama* w There is also a simpler plan universally adopted in Hindostan, which appears well suited to the circumstances of New Zealand, viz., when men cannot agree as to their respective rights, each party chooses two persons-—and these four choose a chief of another tribe having no interest in the matter disputed. Then the five sit in judgment, and decide who is right and who is wrong ; but before they pronounce judgment, both the contending parties solemnly engage to abide by it

"' The Governor earnestly desites lo see the chiefs and people of New Zealand in secure possession of land, "which they cun transmit to tbeii children, and about which there could be ro dispute. Some land might be held in common for tribal purposes; but he would like to see every c hief and every member of

his tribe in possession of a Crown Grant, for as much land as they could possibly desire or use. When a dispute arises about a Crown the proprieter need neither g 0 to war nor appeal to the Goveinraent: he can go at once to the proper Court, and, if he is right, the Judge will give him possession, and the Law will protect him in it. ~ Tribal jealousies and disputes, however, interfere to prevent individuals from obtaining Crown Grants; and they will continue to do bo, and cause quarrels and bloodshed, until men jgrow wiser, and learn that the rights of an individual should be as carefully guarded as those of a community It is essential to the peace and prosperity of the Maori people that some plan for settling disputes about land should be adopted ; the Governor therefore hopes that the Chiefs will consider the subject carefully and dispassionately, and assures them that he will gladly co-operate with them in earrying into effect any system that tliey can recommend, provided it will really attain the desired end. Government House, July 18, iB6O.

In introducing this Message* the Native Secretary observed That the Governor was most anxious that some means should be devised by the Chiefs of the Conference to define!''tribal boundaries,. and make such a subdivision of property among , tribes, families,' and individuals, as would secure to them their landed rights; oil. a more certain foundation than now Existed. The' Chief* present were all'aWarfe that -land; wSs"the main' source of. matiy pf thdr-fifficuilties ; occasioning loss of life, arid affecting the property of both races, i No fixed law bnthe subject could Tie ; said to exist; except the truev various customs relating to Native tenure existed; hut these were not in any : way permanent; and the endless ! complications of such customs were eventually resolved into the-lairof might. Baora, one ot the Ngatiwhatua Chiefs present, had stated that one law did not: exist with the Europeans and Natives about land. This was true, inasmuch as the Native has no: fixed law to regulate the rights of property. How, therefore, could it be expected that one law should pie vail ? The European has a law to guide him on thiis subject ; the Native has no well-defined law. ! The Governor had. long thought .of this subject, and; he availed himself of the present Conference of Chiefs to place his own views before tfcem, .in, the hope that they would co-operate with him to devise such a measure as would simplify. Native, tenure, and epable them to leave the land, they- inherit in the quiet and undisturbed possession of their chidren. Scarcely a year passed without; our hearing of war about land in some part of New Zealand. At, Tauranga the Natives had been fighting very lately. Also at Whakatane, Tunapahore, Upper Wanganuij Hawkes'Bay, Ngupuhi, Te Ihutaroa, and now at Taranaku It was. asserted by some that these wars had been" occasioned by Goverrimient land purchasers. This was untrue. The Government used ievery endeavour to prevent quarrels in conducting tbe : purchase of land j and it those districts ttooughout New Zealand where no land had been such as Te Ihutaroa and other places with which the Govern men i did not interfere', bloody feuds were carried on between the different tribes from time to time. Powerful tribes took possession of land by driving off or exterminating : the original inhabitants. Those in theiir turn drove -off other less powerful itribes. The conqueror enjoyed thie property I while.'he had the power ofkeeping it. None were certain 4iow;l6rjg' they could occupy the land in: peace. truethat.Christianity introduced adiffereff Estate of things. By its influences the conquered were permitted to re-establish themselves on

the lands of their ancestors. In process of time, however, the conquered encroached too far on the formerly recognised rights of the conqueror, occasioning up to the present day, much bitterness of feeling between these two classes of claimants. Tribes vary in their customs about land, but after all, their various customs are liable to be superseded by the Law of Might. He would not detain them longer, but wished them to consider this message well before they expressed an opinion on it. If any felt anxious to express their opinion at once, he invited them to do so. Tukihaumene (Ngatiwhakaue, Rotorua): — You have put aside Uie first words. After two days speaking you have changed the subject to the land. What you say is right, your speech is conect. When this point is settled then perhaps land will be surrendered to the Queen.- I have no land. What causes evil in the world ? For what purpose are guns, powder, and ball made ? It was the possession of these which enabled Hongi Hika to subdue the land. Cease to (alk of (finding a remedy for all) evils. Rather let the question for this Conference be the recognition of the authority of the Queen and the Governor. Will the subdivision of their lands save the people? I think this subject (the land) may be let alone. I have no land. Tamihana Te Rauparaha (Ngalitoa, Otaki) : —This is a matter quite clear to my understanding : This message of the Governor's which has just been read. My desire is that it should be printed in order that this Conference may consider it. Parakaia Tararoa (Tuhourangi, Tarawera): —I have nothing to say. I came to state my views. 1 have acknowledged the Queen. It was j Te Arawa's (tribe) that desired to acknowledge the Queen's authority ; (addressing the Runanga) you have already decided the course you intend to follow, and all that remains for me is to consent. Te Arawa, if you do wrong, I will myself take you to prison. Matenga (Tuhourangi, Tarawera): —I will just address Te Arawa. The Arawa have said that this is the house most secure against the weather (union with the Government). We, who come after, have only to enter and avail ourselves of the shelter. Let your oath be true: swear not falsely before God. I will speak a word, and put forth my idea as to where the Governor's proceedings were wrong (referring to Wiremu Kingi). It was in

Governor Grey'* time lhat I first recognized the authority of the Government. I did not see any fault then or since up to the time of Governor Browne. Governor Browne had not resided here many years when his quarrel commenced , with Te Rangitake: this is where I blame him. tie is a parent. Te Rangitake is a child. Viewing it in this light, when he saw his child committing a fault, why did he not rebuke him and say to bim " you are wrong in hastening into •war"? But you were both hasty in proceeding to hostilities. If you had administered this rebuke in love, the minds of all men would have been clear. Wherefore I say let the oath be truly kept. This is my only complaint against the Governor. His good acts I have seen. He has explained the laws to us: they are understood by all the people. I say, therefore, nothing has been withheld : all the people are informed. Do you listen to what I have to say about my true oath. A man of our tribe was killed in the midst of the Ngatitematera. It it had been dealt -with according to Maori Custom, no one could say what would have been done. But the law constrained me and it was settled according to law. According to your view the case was not one of murder but death by accident. I accepted this view, and so it was settled, \¥ilh respect to the King, and the. land.—According tor ray idea this King is like a crying, fretful child. You brought your good things: they were eagerly sought after by the Maori, but he could not attain tbe standing of the Pakeha; he then parted with his lands to the pakeha in order to become possessed of money, because he and the Governor were friends —for Polalau was your loving friend. He understood the system of the Queen's Government, that it rested upon the principle of having one Chief. He perceived the means by which the Queen became great: by her councils and by money. As soon as he had acquired this knowledge he separated himself from the shadow of the Governor, and set up a king for himself. If the Governor has a desire to bring this to nought, this is my opinion: slop all the channels of money and clothing throughout New Zealand, and prevent the Europeans living in Native districts from giving money to any of the King's followers. In order that you may distinguish your people let them bear a mark on their forehead. If the King's men should came to sell wheat or pigs, do not buy them, lest that King become possessed of money. If you adopt this plan this King will not become great; it will not be Jong before the scheme dies away according to the words orScripture " the works of man shall be brought to nought." This is all I have to suggest in reference to the King (movement). This is about the land. It is in accordance with my opinion that it should be divided, lhat each man should have a certain number atacres, -that he-may be able to sell his portion tirihe Earcpeiuis "without creating confusion. My speech istmded.

Himiona (Tuhourangi, Tarawera): —Listen ; lam a slranger to the practices of years gone t>y. 'I he first thing you introduced was the faith (Christianity). 1 stretched forth my hand and grasped it firmly, fori saw by adopting this, I should save both my body and my soul. After Ihis came the law. I saw its benefit, and adopted il forthwith. 'J he reason why I approved of it was, it was a means of correcting all that went wrong. After this, you showed us the magistrates and the runanga. We adopted these. Our reason for so doing was that by these the law would be upheld—the Hag of the Queen to overshadow all these. Within this present year, for the first time, you have introduced the killing of men. At this I stood erect. I thought within myself, this an error of the Governor's. He did not show us this before. The only thing he shewed us was the chastening of God. ''The Lord chasteneth whom he lovelh." This is the chastening of which I approve for those who persist in doing evil. The requirements of Christianity I understand ; but the law Ido not fully understand. My thoughts concerning the law are not mature; nevertheless, I entirely accept the Queen's Government, whether you introduce things evil or things goo Respecting the King: we are unanimously agreed in one opinion respecting that. Stop the money and all kind 9 of property, because they are derived from you. Regarding this war (Taranaki), our earnest desire is that peace should be made. Should the Governor say il is out of his power, let this runanga petition the Queen. Tohi Te Ururangi (Ngatiwhakaue,Maketu):— Listen ! Where is the error of the Governor's proceedings ? Is il in the correctness of the statements of the Government ? The bane of this country, New Zealand, is as the Governor has staled, the land. There is life sacrificed at Tauranga. The cause is land. The same at Wha- i katane, Torere, Rotorua, and Tarawera. Friends, listen! The words of Ihe Governor are I quite correct, and I approve of them. Now let us adopt the suggestions of the Governor respecting our lands, and gel them all surveyed, lest perplexities should hereafter arise; that land mine may avoid the chance of a dispute with my younger brother ; that I may leave my piece of land unencumbered to my child in the event of my death. If a man surveys his own piece (of land) there are no future grounds for ano-' ther'o interference. Let our lands be settled according to law ; that we may rest in peace. Let us consent; give it into my hand, that I may present il lo the Governor.

Kihirini (Tuhourangi, Tarawera) :—The ground for our first recognizing the Queen's authority was our own quarrels. We were but few in number; we reclined upon the Queen's Government as upon a pillow. Our acquiescence now is as it was then. "We shall not turn backwards, for we are gone to return no more. That is all on that subject; My opinion respecting the King: I do not approve of the Ring movement; no good will come of it, node whatever. If this had been a system handed down from oar ancestors, we might .have rested upon it; but it is an idea snatched from you. Nothing good will ever proceed from it. He did not save us. It was the Queen that preserved us. We have no desire to return to our former way of living. Our floor "was fern root; our bread was hinau. We have abandoned all those things. Another remark (I have to make). The laws the Governor has given us are good. Bat one side is good and the other evil. Let peace be firmly established; then give us the good laws; yours are the good customs; but you have acted contrary to the good principles which you yourselves introduced. (Song.) Perenara (Tuhourangi, Tarawera): —We are a part of the people who have been united as one in this Conference. We have come to bring our thoughts which we have turned over in our minds both by day and night. The first is respecting the evil of Te Rangitake. The war is his only ; but the perplexity is spread over the minds of all. My desire is that peace should be established on the earth, "and goodwill toward men." But it rests with you to carry out this object in order that the peaceful tendency of these laws which we are now considering may rest upon us. The second subject is the Maori King. This is my opinion :—Stop a portion of the supply of property or at least of money; pinch him in this way, for he wished to separate himself and have two heads in this Island; and let us see whether he will not retrograde to bis former condition. I have no sympathy with this Maori King : there is no advantage to be gained, none whatever. The Ihird subject, unity under the Queen's flag. You know how ducklings are reared; they are brought up by a strange parent—a hen. The hen covers the eggs, and they are hatched ; they have no desire to return to their former mother, but to their adopted one (the mother who fed them). This is the case with us. We are sprung from a different parent, but have now adopted another one, even the gracious Queen. There is no going backwards to evil. We are now united to Christianity, and to the Law. We are enlightened by the good news (Gospel) which has beep to the world. My speech is ended.

Hori Kerei Te Kotuku (Tuhouratigi. Tarawera): —-Friends, lislen to our ideas, for Te Rauparaha hassaid we are the last canoe to be launched." Now, friends, listen and I will tell you my thoughts. Life and knowledge are wilh you (Ihe Pakeha). But, according lo Native customs, lara a prey-to all evil. You made your appearance and saved the inhabitants of New Zealand; you arrived here and I (the Maori) was saved. You (aught me good things. Now 1 have no fear. I have no fear of men under this law. Formerly I was in constant fear, now I have none. (When we left home) we thought we were the only voyagers, but you have assembled people from all parts of this Island ; from the further end up to this place. Even Taiaroa is here. (Song.) You have made me great. If you make me little it is well, as I owe my greatness to you. ff you deprive me of it I cannot complain, because you gave it to me. But I will liken it lo what Paul says " not as fools but as wise, redeeming the lime." When you arrived we were dwelling in ignorance, we were blind. First came Christianity, after that the Law. I saw that there was salvation for me. You appointed magistrates. We received them. It was during the time of Governor Grey that we first recognized the Queen's authority. He said there is no other Sovereign for us but the Queen. I did not receive the Law without consideration. I sought it carefully in the pages of Scripture. I did not search in ignorance. I saw its benefits, and then 1 embraced it. Now the Queen is my Sovereign. Property was stolen by one of the tribes (referring to a robbery which took place at the South), I recovered the goods and returned them lo the owner. I did this because I was -under the Queen's Law. (Another song.) Te Raramu (Ngatipaoa, Hauraki)Listen you. These remarks that lam about to make are known also lo my friend who is sitting at my side (Paora Tuhaere). When the pakehas arrived, and where still at sea I took bold of the cable and drew him to land. All things are not known, lam not concerned to know Ihe opinions of Ihis person or that person: each man has his own thoughts. All that I know is, that

formerly we had but one kind of garment. 1 had not then received this which now covers me. Remember your oaths lest they be violated. Paora Tihaere (Ngatiwhatua, Orakei): —Respecting the Message of the Governor. lam impatient that the Message of the Governor be printed, that we may carefully consider it, and then give our opinions upon the subject. Hukiki (Ngatiraukawa, Otaki): —Listen, people of the Ngaliraukawa, Ngaliloa, and Ngatiawa tribes. This is the word which we have been in search of in years that are past. The Governor has' now revealed that word to us, about surveying our land, but when will it be put into' effect % This has been shown us; three years have we waited for it; but when will the lands be surveyed ? Pigs have been marked., cattle and horses have been branded. My name is Hukiki, the brand on my cattle is HU, but the land has not been branded (referring to Crown Grants). According to my opinion the land should be marked. Because the Chiefs are giasping at great quantities of land, leaving none for the poorer people. The Governor has now offered it to us. Now therefore I say we have indeed become children of the Governor. Because I have a great deal of land, therefore I have said let the land be given to the Governor and Mr. McLean ; this land shall pass into the hands of the Queen. I have declared these words in order that all the tribes may hear that this land has been surrendered to the Queen. The offer of Ohau has reached England. Ihakara (Ngatiraukawa, Manawatu): — Hearken my Pakeha and Maori kinsmen. I will point you out two tribes oflow standing in this Assembly of influential men. The reason why I say these two tribes are of low standing is because we are floating about on the earth. We have no land. The influential men in this Assembly do not derive their influence from anything in, themselves, but from their land. Hearken! when the good news (Christianity) first arrived, thatiswhen (Archdeacon H.) Williams visited us he asked, "do you renounce the devil and all his woiks, the pomps and vanities of this wicked world and all the sinful lusts of the flesh?"' We answered "we renounce them all." After this the Governor came. He introduced the subject of the law for the body. I consented to this also; after this again the Assembly at Auckland. I have consented to this also. The Governor called for Native Assessors to assist the European Magistrates. I assented to this also. I will now refer to the rules which were being considered yesterday. For the adulterous woman: according to the words of the rule before

mentioned, the fine for a woman committing adultery goes to the Queen and the Runanga. My opinion is that this should be left in abeyance. Now hearken you to the rule of our land (Manawatu). If my wife be taken in adultery in my own house, and she does not raise an alarm we do not entertain the case. If my wife is forced in my own house, and gives an alarm so as to be heard by the people, cognizance is taken of that; second offence is not entertained; third offence, no notice whatever is taken. If I commit that crime and ray wife hears of it and goes and does likewise, no notice is taken of it because the fault is my own. If a man has two wives and one of them commits adultery no notice is taken of it. These are the things which cause trouble amongst the Natives. I am showing you the rule of our lands: enough about that. I will now remark upon the Governors Message. It is good: I wish our lands to be defined. That is our desire, in order that each individual may have his portion clearly defined. Because (now) the Uhiefs alone have the land, the poor people simply living on the produce of the soil. According to my idea no time should be lost. Upon our return yoa must send some officer. Wiremu Tamihana Te Neke (Ngatiawa) I will speak on this subject: We agree to the Message of the Governor. We are desirous that our pieces (of land) should be surveyed, and that each individual should receive a Crown Grant for his particular portion, so that when a desire springs up in an individual to part with his portion, he can do so, and the evil consequence will rest with himself. The evil is this, he will be without land. Now we know that the Governor is indeed a friend to the Maori, because he has consented that our lands shall be surveyed ; for this reason I say let the plan be quickly carried out. Mr. McLean, you have heard the desire expressed by myself and Riwai that our lands should be surveyed. You agreed with us. Make haste and send some workmen on some future day. Tamihana Te Rauparaha (Ngatitoa, Otaki): —This is my speech on the Message of the Governor. We (Ngatitoa) and Ngitiraukawa will carry this into effect—our tribes are quick in taking up European customs. We are constantly adopting Pakeha customs.

Good has resulted from them. The root of these perplexities is that the land has not been settled. We have adopted European customs. We have erected houses like the Pakeha's. ■Our town has been established. We are Pakehas now: for this reason I say let us seek to attain this plan also. We were the first to have ministers. Rota and Riwai were from our district. Let the head (the Southern part of the Island) commence it. Ropata Hurumutu (Ngatitoa, Wellington): I have nothing fresh to urge. Mr. McLean, we laid the matter before you and Governor Grey; subsequently before you and Governor Browne (referring to Crown Grants). We have no place where we can establish ourselves. The fault is not with the Pakeha: the fault is our own. Parakaia Te Pouepa (Ngatiraukawa, Otaki): —I speak in support of the statement of Hukiki and Ropata, lam the opponent of these men. My opposition arises from a desire to prevent quarrelling. My wish is not to hold the land but to prevent evil arising. My opposition to the sale of laud is broken through—there is an end of it. The sition for the speedy out of this object 1 oppose. Rather wait till this perplexity is passed, then consider those lands. It has been laid before this Runanga. Friends, the Native chiefs, we have ceased to condemn the cause of the war with Rangitake. We have identified ourselves with the Governor—this war is ours. Should this war cease, we shall then be clear to consider the good suggestions which the Governor has declared in our hearing. That it may be clearly seen from one end of New Zealand to the other. Should this war be ended, why take any notice of that King movement ? What can this Maori King do ? Will he (the Maori King) be able to overcome the power of God % The Gospel from God will never be extinguished—never ! Let the Maories lament over their byegone customs. If our proceedings be right, what have »ve to do with Maori Law ? Let them go on lamenting because (according to the old song) " E tangi ana, Ki tona whenua, Ka tupuria nei E te Maheuheu. Tangi kau ana Te Mapu, e !" Our plan shall not be superseded by that of the King —never ! Meeting adjourned to 19th instant.

Thursday, July 19, 1860. The Native Secretary opened the proceedings of the day with a statement of circumstances connetced with the Waitara purchase, and the <;rig-in of the War at Taranaki. He Spoke as follows : Chiefs of this Conference: Yesterday some of you took occasion to animadvert on the war at Taranaki. Your remarks were sentto the Governor that His Excellency might, if he thought proper to do so, direct that a statement of the circumstances connected with the differences existing between himself and William King should be laid before you. The Governor's explanation of this matter has been this day sent to you, that you may be correctly informed with reference to it; that you may neither shape a judgment in the dark, nor take a rash view under the influence of mere suspicion, or through the false reports and exaggerated statements which have been in circulation throughout the country. Before reading the Governor's message, I will state to.you a portion of what has come under my own knowledge in connexion with this place (Taranaki). I will not go back to the invasion of the Ngapuhi, but will commence with the first sale to Colonel Wakefield at Aropaoa, in 1839, by the Atiawa residing on the opposite shores of the country, better known to you as Kapiti. Their names are in the deed transferring the land. Here are the names of Te Awe, of William King, of Rauponga, Ngarewa, Manurau, Mare and others of the Ngatiawa. I will not detain you by reading all the names. These are the principal chiefs who transferred the land. The name of William King Te Rangitake is the first of the signatures to the deed. The whole district was alienated at that time. No portion of it was excepted, for the Ngatiawa looked upon it as territory which they had left, abandoned and forsaken for ever; to which they had bidden a fiual farewell, and which had passed into the hands of the Waikatos. At that time they did not expect ever to return to it. This was the reason why the Atiawas wished to sell it to the Pakehas: hence the sale to Colonel Wakefield. The arrangement was made by William King himself, and the payment was received. On Colonel Wakefield's return to Wellington the chiefs of the Ngatiawa residing there deputed Tuarau, and another of their Chiefs to go to the people who were living at Ngamotu (Taranaki) to inform them of the sale of the land. Tuarau accordingly went, and on arriving assembled the people and told them what had taken place. They expressed their satisfaction: they were delighted at the prospect of Pakehas coming to live among them as friends. Now would they come forth to life and the light of heaven.

secure from Waikato. The assent of Awatea, Eruera Te Puke, of Ngahirahira, Karoro, Poharama, Te Whiti, Tangutu and others, 79 in number, was given. These were all the people living upon the land at that time whose names appear on this Deed of Sale. This was the second purchase. This sale included Taranaki and Waitara. This territory was purchased, and the payment ivas given to the men who ■were at that time residing upon the land. It ■was then surveyed, and afterwards Europeans carne to settle upon it. I shall not speak of William King's visit to Ngapuhi, and of what passed between him and Potatau's younger brother; they had a difference about that land, j Ivati said to William King, " That land will' be sokMo the Governor." William Kino-re-' plied, " Then T will sell the Waipa Valley asa payment for my skin." (Alluding to an encounter which took place'between the the Nga-j Taranaki and the people of Waipa.) On lvati s return from the .North he repeated "what had passed between himself and Wi Kingi to the old Chief Potatau, just now deceased. Soon after, Potatau went to Kapiti with Governor Ilobson. Afterwards, he said to the Governor, " JFriend, listen to me, Taranaki is mWV ,: han . d holtiiS 1 wish to sell it to you." The windo wof the room-in which this conversation took place happened to be open, iukl some papers which had been lying on the table were scattered by the wind. The old Chief collected them and, replacing them on the table, put a weight upon them and addressing the Governor, said,' "This is like I arauaki: if I. press the Taranaki people, they will remain quiet. See, 0 Governor, when I put a weight upon them they are still: they cannot move." Time passed on, Governor Hobson considered the matter, and after having done so, consented to the purchase from Waikato. Here is the deed of transfer : " Know all men by this book, we Chiefs of Waikato, do let go and sell these lands of ours to George Clarke, the Protector of Natives, for Her Majesty Victoria, Queen of England, her heirs and successors whether male or female. Ihe land and all things that are on or under this land we sell to George Clarke, the Protector of Natives, for an estate for the Queen, her heirs .and successors whether male or female' for ever. ' "The beginning.of the Northern boundary is at Tongapouiutu, the Western boundary is along the sea shore between Tongapourutu and Waitotara and goiug inland to Piraunui. We receive these payments on behalf of our tribes of Waikato, for their interest in the said land I —one hundred and fifty pounds money, two

horses, two saddles, two bridles, and one hundred red blankets. " Witness our names and signs written in Auckland, on the thirty-first of January, in the year of our Lrml one thousaud eight hundred" andl forty; t wo." (Signed) Te Kati, " T.E WjHEROWIIERO. Witnesses, (.Signed). J: Coates, " George Clarke, Sub: Protr. True. Translation, (Signed) Thomas S. FOiisaitii. * The signatures t0.,, this ■ deed are those of Te Kati, who lies buried at Mangere, and of Te Wherowhero, just now deceased, at his own place-at Waikato... Now, in accordance with your customs, this land was completely forfeited and goner of the men who. once possessed .it, some had' been brought as slaves to Waikato;,some had gone to ICapiti. It was a complete abandonment of a conquered "territory. When the first payment was made, a portion of the goods was brought from Kapiti" to Waikato. Te Pakaru received a share, as also Te Awaitaia; but neither Potatau-nor Kati got any. These two - Chiefs were therefore dispfeased'and applied to the Governor, urging him to give them a payment. After the transactions to which I' have referred, the Europeans supposed that the land had finally passed'into their possession. Accordingly it'was surveyed and portions were all6tted to individual settlers;-some were also set apart for the Maories, within the European boundaries. Settlers came from England with the plans of their sections in their hands, expecting to find them ready for occupation. The Natives who had been permitted to return from Waikato, came and interfered with the Europeans who had settled upon the land,: claiming it as their own y the former also maintaining their claims. Animosities thus sprung up between the Europeans .aud the Maories. During this state of affairs, some o£ the Waikato Chiefs interfered and admonished, the Maories to dwell in .peace, and to treat the Europeans with kindness, threatening them with another invasion if. they refused to listen. Such were the sentiments of Waikato at that time. Nuitona .Te Pakaru of Kawhia and other Waikato Chiefs went there, and thus admonished the Taranaki people. Mr. Spain, the Commissioner appointed for the purpose of inquiring, into questions of

land claims, had, previous to this, given a decision on this question. He did not award the whole of the land sold: he restricted the extent of the Europeans' claim to what he considered a? fair equivalent for the payment given by Colonel Wakefield, and fixed the Northern boundary at Te Taniwha, thence to Paritutu, and thence inland. The claim which Colonel Wakefield put in for the whole of the land was not allowed by Mr. Spain, a small portion of the land only being retained. Captain Fitzßoy was Governor at this time, which was also the time of my going to Taranaki, He looked at the unsatisfactory state of affairs at Taranaki, and out of consideration for the claims of the residents—of those who were living at Kapiti, and of those still in slavery in various parts of the island—he made a different arrangement from Mr. Spain's and decided that a fresh payment should be given for the land, whether as included in Colonel Wakefield's purchase or in Mr. Spain's award, in order that the Pakehas might occupy their land with a clear and undisputed title. The Governor instructed me to give this payment, that the Maories might dwell in peace with the Europeans. The Europeans were angry with this new arrangement of Governor Fitz Roy's and one of the Queen's Ministers in England also condemned it.' But when the matter came before the Queen, Her Majesty would not allow the word of her Governor to be set aside. Payments were accordingly made at Taranaki, and divided among the claimants to the land. In Governor Fitzroy's time land purchasing was again commenced in that district. The pur chases of the Government during that period down to the arrival of Governor Grey at Taranaki are shewn upon this map which I hold in my hand. When Governor Grey came, he considered what had been done by Governor Fitzßoy in reference to Mr. Spain's award, and then said to me, " It is well for you to continue to make further payments for the land although it has been long since acquired by the Government, but in doing so you must cause the Natives distinctly to understand that ample provision will be made for them out of the land required by the Government; and that those who refuse to come into this arrangement cannot be recognised as the true owners of the land." Some of them have recently thought proper to occupy. The Governor also authorised a small payment to the absentees at Kapiti in the South. In all future purchases these two principles were to be recognized. Such were the instructions which I received from Governor Grey, whose letter, containing them, I now hold in my hand. In the year 1547, Waitara was offered for sale. Claims were duly investigated. This

was before the return of the people from Kapiti. The Natives residing on the land, said," It will not be right to entertain the claims of those absentees who forsook the land, and took no part in defending it against the Waikatos: let the whole payment be given to us." The Government did not, however, accept this view, and when any payment was made, it was divided, and a portion was sent to Kapiti. The purchase of the Waitara was kept in abeyance until the claims should be clearly ascertained. In 1848 I went to Kapiti, and there was a large gathering at Waikanae at which Wtn. King Te Rangitake proposed to return to his place at Waitara. When he was informed that the Waitara was under offer to the Government he said, " Let me return thither, and I will then consider the matter. When I get there, one side of the river shall be yours and the North side shall be mine, whence I can look out for the Waikatos, in case that tribe should meditate an attack upon us." That was his word which is retained in the memories of myself and others here present who heard what passed between us. William King was allowed quietly to locate himself at Waitara, and nothing was said by us about Waitara: there was no attempt to press the matter hastily. When William King returned with his people, the sanction of the Governor to his doing so had been given, though the act was on his part intended as one of defiance. On his way he heard that the sale of Mangati was under negotiation. He met me on this side of Whanganui, and said to me, " Do not give the payment for Mangati. lam willing that it should be sold, but I have a claim on it; let the payment be kept back until I arrive there. I am there then it may be given." I replied, "It is well, William." Some months afterwards I called together all the people of Puketapu and other places to receive the payment. William King was also invited to be present, to witness the payment. He came, and when the goods had been apportioned out among the several divisions of tribes, I looked to see what portion was asassigned for William King. None appeared: he got nothing. I, therefore, came to the con-1 elusion that William King had no claim at Mangati. Tfi Keene here asked Mr. McLean: How many payments did the one of which you speak make? Native Secretary: This was the third or fourth payment for some of the Taranaki land. Chiefs of the Conference, perhaps I am weary- 1 ing you with this long account of a matter in which many of you feel little interest. j From the Council: No, no, Mr. McLean, ] speak on, speak on. 1

Native Secretakt: I will not detain you very long on this subject. You have heard of the first purchase; and of the many subsequent paymen'ts. No payment was given for Waitara at this time; the payments to which I lately referred were given for land then bought for the occupation of the Europeans. The Taranaki people are now asserting a claim to territory which has become the property of the Government.. Waikato-has taken up arms to hold that which their own Chiefs gave to the spreading it. forth for their acceptance in the- light ,of day and under the* shining sun of heaven. Had it been territory not previously touched or broken into, the case would have been different, but it was not so.. The land has been consumed;,-it cannot return.to its original state any more than, the ashes of a dead fire can be rekindled. Let the Chiefs of the Council look, at the facts of case and consider them w-ell.. This- statement i 3 not a new one; it was made by me at Waikato, and the old Chief who hasjust died fully admitted its truth. Referring to it he said,. "It is correct." Why is -it that by some,.contrary views are now expressed, instead o£pains being taken, to ascertain the- real merits of the question?; Does it indicate an inclination to return to the customs of the days gone by ?. There are two things which, in my opinion,, have been the main causes oi the present, state of affairs; one is the land-holding league, the other the Maori-King project. When William King lived.at ICapiti" he was a. well disposed.chief, and behaved well on various occasions, as became the son of Reretawhangawhanga.. When he returned to .the land which formerly belonged to Ms tribe an alteration took place'in him; he displayed both good and evil, and confusion arose.. The Taranald Natives had previously lived at peace! with each other.- Humau life had" been safe, i but after his coming blood began to be spilt, murders to be committed, and there was a return to old customs. Not a year passed without our hearing of some evil at Taranaki. Some of you have said if the Governor had requested us to go to Taranaki the present evil would not have grown. You do not know what those people are. I have had long experience of their ways. Te Waka, who-is here present, has seen what they are. Potatau knew them also. Te Pakaru, Te Awaitaia, Te Anaua, Hipango, Takerei, and Te Rauangaanga; we all have seen and known them-. Those who have visited that place of quarrels and murders know that that people will not listen to reason* Some of you, perhaps,, think that it was urgency on the part of the- Govemor to

obtain land, or a desire for war, which caused evils to grow at Taranaki. On the contrary, the Governor was constantly urging those people to cease destroying each other, and to put an end to their feuds and fighting which were being carried on before the very doors of the Europeansettlers'houses, and in which, there was reason to expect, the Europeans might eventually become involved. In March 1859 Governor Browne went there and the Atiawa with William King and the man of Puketapu and Nga Mota assembled to meet him. Te Tahana spoke first, and professed sentiments similar to those which have been here expressed by yourselves, and his desire to live quietly under the protection of the Queen and the laws of the Pakeha. The Governor then stated the object of his visit. Ilis words were to the same effect as those which were addressed to you on the opening of this Conference. He then warned the people that murders and other like evils must be made to cease in that place. Some assented, others wished to retain their old customs. Some said there is no security under the Maori law, let us dwell under the laws of the Pakehas. The Governor again cautioued the people respecting murder and theft and other crimes. He also spoke to them about the land as a separate matter. He said that each man should be at liberty to sell or retain his own piece, as he might think proper, and that no one should be allowed to interfere with the rightful owner in -either ease. The people of this island know that the proceedings of the Governor were not sudden nor hasty; matter had been long before him. His determination to follow this course was the result of the experience of years past; had it been otherwise it might be spoken of as hastily adopted. A year passed before any action was taken. Possibly the people thought the Governor would not keep his word. They thought rather to set it aside as a word that would not be made good. The only law they cared to maintain was their law of holding the land. A man transgressing this law by offering to sell land was to be punished with death, though the land offered might be his own. At this time, some who had heard the Governer's declaration and saw its justice wished to sell a portion of their land to the Government. The offer was accepted in the presence of the assembled people and of William King also. Te Teira on behalf of the Ngatihinga and Ngatituaho that he wished to cede a small portion of his land to the Government, leaving the greater part of it untouched. He said to the assembled people " Listen, it is only my own land that I shall give." He then asked the Governor whether he would consent that

his land should be bought. He repeated his question a second and a third time before the Governor replied. The Governor then turning to me said " If it is right and that he is really the owner, assent." The assent having been given Te Teira brought a parawai mat and placed it at the feet of the Governor. It lay there for some time, and was at last taken possession of for the Governor. Others got up to offer their pieces, but their offers were not ac - cepted as the title did not appear clear. These were accordingly rejected. William King then rose and without attempting to impugn Teira's title or right to sell, he merely spoke a few words to the effect that Waitara should be held, and then returned to his place. Before leaving Taranaki I instructed the Land Purchase Commissioner there to investigate carefully the claims to this piece of land and not to proceed hastily in the matter. He has since been constantly engaged in inquiring into the question of title, William King also being present at the meetings and admitting that the land belonged to the sellers, but refusing his consent to its being sold. If he or any other person had shewn that any portion of the land belonged to him such a claim would have been respected. No land would be taken from its owner without his consent. His attempt to hold the land is connected with the land league and was encouraged by the Maori King movement, otherwise he would not have ventured, as he has repeatedly done, to forbid the sale of land to which he never had any claim, not only at Waitara but at Mokau, at Taranaki, and at other places. Had this been land over which the Native title existed in its original state there might have been some excuse. After the talk (about the Waitara land) I crossed the straits to Aropaoa, and saw that section of the tribe which is with Ropoama Te Ore. I mentioned that a portion of the Waitara had been offered. I recited the boundaries and asked, Does that land belong to William King? This I said merely to bring out information on the subject. The reply was, " No: if it was on the other side of Waitara, his claim would be just, but this side belongs to us; let us have the payment." I said it will not be right to give it to you now, wait until the matter is clear ; let the claims be investigated on the spot, ar.d then the payment may be given. They pressed the matter, and a third time thev urged me to give them the payment. I replied, Wait until the question is properly settled. Afterwards they agreed to this. The names of these A.ropaoa people who have claims at Waitara are Ropoama Te Ore, Ripeka, Ngawheua, Te Herewini, Ihaka, Te Timoti, Anaru, Haimona, Henare Rupuha,

Arapere, Hamiora, Tohi, Pirihira Neta, Rakira, Eruera Te Rangi, Whiroa, Te Rei (at Port Nicholson,) and others. Tbese people consented to the sale. It was I who delayed the matter, wishing that the claims should be investigated upon the land of their forefathers. I went to Heretaunga, and when I returned I was unable to give further attention to the matter. You know very well that no man's land is taken unjustly from him. The Ngatituahu and Ngatihinga in times past claimed the totaras, and the produce of the Waitara river. Ngatikura and Ngatituiti recognised their right andsometimes exchanged other produce with them for totaras and lampreys. Karewa was chief of the first named tribes. Ropoama who lives at Aropaoa is descended from the same ancestors and represents these tribes. Patukakariki, son of Karewa and brother of Ruatokaaruku, may also have a claim on the land. It has always been left open to him to assert it, but he has not done so hitherto. The Governor has never refused to listen to any just claims if properly brought forward. Do not pretend to say that Te Teira alone received payment for the land at Waitara. He was; not even the largest claimant but merely the spokesman of the sellers. This is the Deed of the sale of the Waitara land, which I shall now read to you:— " Know all men by this Deed, executed on the twenty-fourth day of February, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty (1860): We, Chiefs and Men of New Zealand, whose names are hereunto subscribed, in consideration of the sum of six hundred pounds (£600) paid to us by Parris, on behalf of Queen Victoria (and we hereby acknowledge the receipt of the said moneys): We all and each of us by this Deed consent to sell, surrender, and convey to Queen Victoria, and to all the Kings and Queens Her Successors, and to Her Assigns, all that piece of land called Pekapeka. " The Boundaries of which are—- " Commencing on the beach at Onatiki, running inland in a straight line to Kohia, to the high road to Mamaku, from thence running in a Northerly direction along the cart road to Pukeruru, descending thence to Maungahakaia to the stream called Mangahinau, from thence seaward to Opatito to a Kahikatea (tree) standing there, continuing thence to Arakauere, from thence in a Northerly direction to Puke&ohe to the flat on.the land side of the Pa; from thence to the steep towards the North, running along said steep seaward to the <litch fence to Matawhitu, running in a Northerly direction to

the river Waitara, following down such stream to its mouth at the beach; from thence running in a Southerly direction along the beach to Onatiki, the starting point. " Together with all right to the things appertaining thereto, with all our right, title, interest, claim, and demand, which all and each of us have in the said land, and all thereunto belonging, to the Queen and Her Assigns forever. " In testimony of our surrender, we hereunto subscribe our names. (Signedj Tamati x (his mark) Raru .Rawiri x (his mark) Raupongo Te Teira Manuka Hemi Watikingi Pataka Paranihi Epiha te Hoko "Weterere HoriTeKokako Rawiri x (his mark) Kauiri Eruera Raurongo More x (his mark) Whatu Hera x (her mark) Hita Tupoki Ripeka Hira Rakira x (her mark) Te Ringa M akareta x (her mark) Te Motu Rameri x (her mark) Wikitoria x (her mark) Te Watene x (his mark) x> Written in the presence of Robert P arris, District Commissioner John L. Newman, Settler IS. W, Stockman."

The inland boundary has not been cut. It was left thus on account of differences, and has xemained uncut until the present time. And yet some of you and other chiefs talk about hasty measures as having caused a feeling of dissatisfaction among you. According to Waikato, no force can be justly employed against any tribe except with their concurrence and approval. They do not bear in mind that this question has been a subject of discussion during many'years. Ko rash haste marked the Go- . vernor's proceedings when he went to Taranaki. He -wrote to William King and invited him to a friendly conference, but the latter refused to come. When the surveyors went peaceably to survey the land he opposed them with force, and compelled them to retire. The soldiers .then went to protect the survey. William King . waited, hoping that one of his men might be killed, and so furnish a pretext for fighting,

and that it might be said that the Europeans had commenced it. Then apa was set up on the land. The Officer commanding the Troops sent a letter to William King in the hope of dissuading him from compelling hostilities, but it was treated with contempt. Thus did he wrongly provoke the war which has been carried on since that time to the present. It was then that the pa was fired upon by the soldiers. After this followed the acts of the Ngatiruanui and Taranaki. I shall not speak of these as you are well acquainted with the particulars. Enough. You have now heard the causes out of which the war at Taranaki has sprung. I shall proceed to read the Governor's Message to you : (Message No. 3.) " Thomas Gore Browne, Governor,- . " Many of the Chiefs assembled at Ivohimarama having expressed a wish to be correctly informed of the events at Taranaki, the Governor has instructed Mr. McLean to relate truly all that has occurred. " The Chiefs will learn from him that many of the Maories in that district had earnestly desired the Governor to put an end to their bloody and disgraceful feuds which constantly endangered the peace of the district, destroying many of their own lives and endangering those of the Europeans. "In compliance with their urgent request, the Governor declared his intentions at the meeting at which William King was present in March, 1859; but William King, supported by men opposed to the sale of land, trampled upon his word, and assumed to himself the right of forbidding other chiefs to do what they please with their own. William King was present when Teira made the offer and described the boundaries, also when the money was paid to Teira, and did not urge any claim to share in it. But he drove away the surveyors, and when asked ti meet the Governor and declare what claim he had upon the land or what right he had to interfere, he refused to come ; and when the land was occupied by the Queen's troops he built a pa upon it and obstructed the road. Even then he was allowed to go in peace, the pa being destroyed. Not satisfied with this, he built a second pa which was destroyed, and now he has built others, and remains in arms against Her Majesty. " The Chiefs will therefore see that it was not the Governor who commenced the war, or desired it, but William King ; all this, however, will be related in full and explained by Mr. McLean. " Government House, July 19th, I860."

Friday, July 20th, 1860. In opening to-day's proceedings the Native Secretary suggested that Tamati Waka should commence the speeches; and that he should be followed by Nopera, and Te Awaiahi, and other chiefs who had only recently arrived and had not yet addressed the Conference. ' Nene, (Ngapuhi,) Bay of Islands These are my woids. I shall now s ° raet hing to say. What has been said before was unimportant, merely a first attempt. We have hot arrived at any thing definite. For a fortnight past we have been talking. To me the time has seemed two months. Our first speeches were correct. I stand partly in doubt of you the Chiefs of this Conference : it is well that you should speak your sentiments; you are from the South, lam from the North from the tail end of oar Island. The reason I now stand up to speak is that I see strangers here who have newly arrived. I am searchingfor the cause which has brought us hfcre. Is it Te Rarigitake, or is it the king movement ? Te-^hettwheto. was. my friend 2"f 6 paßt * 1 ato here » Wherowhero there. My friend has been taken from our midst, and from the presence of the Governor. What is it I that has taken away my friend who is now gone Was it you who took him or who ?My m Vas taken awa y and called a king. When Te Rangitake heard this, he thought, I have now a king, I will join this. Accordingly he proceeded with bis work. I bad thought that amongst all our tribes Waikato was the only one which held an independent position. tribes have lost their position. All fond of European goods have been taken into Waikato; there is nothing that has not found its way there. Ploughs and all kinds of useful things have through the Governor been introduced into Waikato; there is nothing which he has not sent to the Chiefs of this land. When the Governor came we began to cast about and to think, perhaps we shall lose our lands, but no, the pakeha said, Friends, let a portion of your lands be for us. The land has not been !- r shi P s and carried away. It Oftv r7" h US - Perha P s the away P en \ c u n i leclea lvith this - If they (the Europeans) had gone and fetched Tamati

Waaka, or Porutu, to clear the land for them, then I would have said this is an evil Governor. But the pakeha came with his own spade, therefore I say no wrong has been done to us. According to my notion, now that Potatau is dead, the work of Waikato should be put an end to. He uttered no evil words, nor any words about fighting. His only word was, good will and kindness. This was his word, wash me that I may be clean : hence I say let that name be washed out, let each tribe cherish its own pakehas. You say the the Governor is doing wrong in taking the land ; my opinion is that it is Te Rangitake who was wrong. He desired the things which were given as a payment for Taranaki. You talk about the Governor's wrong. Listen, all of you, the payment given for my lands was scissors and pipes. These lands(at Taranaki) I hear were paid for in silver. Perhapsthis conference is now thinking, pshaw ! his talk indeed, what is the talk of this man brought here for ? This is the way I propose to destroy evil, —by kindness, —kindn ss to the pakehas, even to the end, even as I cherish my pakehas. That is all I shall say. my words are but desultory. Nopera, (Ngatiwhatua,) Kaipara:—Listen ye to the purport of my speech. lam about to speak of my pakehas, of my parents, my elder brothers, and my younger brothers. They were dead and are restored, they were lost and are returned.. These are my parents who drew me forth to life. Here is the cause of my being able to look forth upon the mountains and plains. Tt is through my pakehas. Listen, my words appear in the Governor's newspapers. If a Maori be killed by a pakeha, let the pakeha be given up as payment for his offence. If a pakeha should be killed by a maori, let the Maori be given up as payment for his offence : the two are thus treated alike, and peace and unity will continue. Here is no cause of division; the murderer is himself the payment—he expiates his crime. If the Maori steal the goods of the pakeha let him be the payment, for his sin is his own; if he drink rum in the town the payment for his transgression should be himself : whether he be a chief or of inferior rank, he should be given up to the law of the pakeha. If these are carried out, then our union will be a reality. If a pakeha wantonly commits an act of violence upon the people of any tribe, let the matter be arranged between themselves; if the act should be done to myself or tribe it will be for me to arrange about it, if we act upon this principle we shall dwell in peace. I have committed myself to the direction of the Governor. We shall not be separated from the Governor. To the first, to the second, to the third, and to the fourth Governor my

words have been and remain the same. We will not part for ever, and ever, Amen ! Katipa Te Awarahi, (Ngatiteata) Waiuku:— Listen, Te Waka, both you and Mr. McLean. It is true that I have acted presumptously with regard to this namejof King. It was not we, however, who oYigitmeTit; it was Taupo, and Whanganui who set up the name of King. These were its supporters, Te Moananui. (Win, Thompson Tarapipipi), Te Heuheu, and Tamihana. Potatau never desired the name of King; he preferred the name of Father. Te Waka says he condemns this (King movement) and lie is quite right. I said the same to Te Heuheu, to Turoa, and to Te Moananui. I asked them what good is there in the name of King ? Potatau was altogether misled; he did not enter the King project or favor it in any way. He said, Wash me, I shall die; this people have compassed my death. This was spoken at the Waiuku meeting. He said also, let not the Maories quarrel with the Pakeba. Such were his sentiments. I now say the Governor has been very good. I have nothing to say against him. But, I ask, Who will wash the blood from the hand of Te Rangitake ? who shall wash the blood from the hand of the Governor ? It must be done by themselves. There is also this word, Let not the gnat be strained at "while the camel i 3 swallowed. Te A.o-o-te-rangi, (Tainui,) WaiukuAs for me, I know nothing about this work at Waikato; lam in ignorance respecting it. I have not understood the object of that work. I should say that this name of Waikato is merely a name. Te Katipa has named the tribes who set this project on foot. It came from the interior and from the South. Potatau's wish was, that the name of parent should be adopted. You have heard what I said, that this name of Waikato is but a name. I now, for the first time, see what has been going on in the South. Waikato has only come in at the completion of the design. You say, the King must be put down beeause Potatau is dead. I say, the intentions of the Waikato cannot be stolen from them. I cannot pretend to state them. I live on the sea coast; Waikato is inland. I was left by you in ignorance respecting this matter, and therefore Ido not understand it. Listen, the Pakeha is not of to-day; it is long since he came here. The ministers came ; this was one great benefit. Afterwards came another system, and I continued to observe. This is what I have to say to you Mr. McLean and Te Waka. Be kind to the Maories of New Zealand, to the dark-skins. If 1 (the Maori) turn upon you to injure you, then you and 1 will act in concert. If the Governor becomes the aggressor and does wrong to me (the

Maori), then I shall turn away. The main thing which we are told to regard is the law. As to Te Rangitake's affair ; it is not understood, nor do we know the thoughts of Te Rangitake. Waikato is the only .independent tribe now As" Waikato, who knows what they may be ? ? Petaera Wharerahi, Taupo:—l have come from among the King party. X belong to the Arawa ; through ray mother lam connected with Tarawera, Rotokakahi, and Te Rotoiti; these are my people. I became detached through ray father. The word which Tukihaumene and Parakaia have spoken I confirm, they have spoken my sentiments. I refer to what they said (about allegiance) to the Queen. It was through a slave that I saw Ngapuhi. I applied to the ministers and obtained (my wish). My object was to prevent Te Wakafrom coming back to destroy us. Afterwatds ministers came and lived among us. All the other tribes have parted with their lands ; I have not parted with my land, and my thoughts have remained clear (no cause of dissatisfaction). There was evil with Heke, evil at Port Nicholson, and evil at Whanganui, while I continued to dwell in peace. There is now evil with Te Rangitake, hut I shall not go astray. The Maories desire to sell their lands, and the Pakehas desire (to buy them). After the money has been received, an attempt is made to take the land back again. If it be a case where blood has been shed, I shall not take up the quarrel. If it be that you wrongfully take my land without payment, I shall have to consider that. Mete Kingi, (Ngatiapa,) Whangauui:— The "words of the Governor have been read by this Conference ; but some of them have not been replied to. The Governor has sent down three Messages to the Conference ; I have them but shall not attempt to answer them now. I will take them to my house and there consider them. Mr. McLeau, these were prepared by the Governor and you in your houses, and in this way you found your good thoughts. Enough on that subject. This refers to what was said by Te Awarahi about Turoa. How many years have you been waiting for the return of those first concerned in the project. Three years probably. It was a lad who came to us about it, this childish affair, and as young men when they see the haka must join in it, so this attracted some. This youth returned up the Whanganui to Pehi (Turoa) but he did not come back. We said to him, —Sonfthere is a bird called the Huia, and there is another called the Kokako. The leathers of the Kokako were stolen by the Huia. This Maori King project most probably will fail, for the; name is-harrowed from tlie pakeha. It was

thia which caused that young man to remain away ; he did not return again to agitate the KiDg question. Enough on that subject. Listen, Mr. McLean, if the Governor and you should think of convening another meeting, let it be at Whanganui. Mr. McLean let your second Conference be held at Whanganui: this word is "from Turoa and the old men from whom we have come. It is also Hori's (Te Anaua) and, indeed, that of all the people. This is in token of our appreciation and desire to meet the views, of the Governor and yourself. Mr. McLean, let your work be like that of the Bishop. He carries on the-work of instruction year by year until his pupils attain to knowledge are fitted to become Ministers. In like manner let the Governor and you be constantly teaching.. Let your second Conference be at Whanganui. The Governor and you are known by the Ngapuhi, the Ngatipaoa, the Ngatiraaru, and Waikato. I see> the Governor only as a breeze that passes by and is gone, but these people see him continually. Tamihana te Rauparaha, (Ngatitoa,) Otakx: —My heart is glad. Te Waka was the friend of my father. If Te Rauparaha were alive they would be of the same mind and both would be with the Governor. These Waikato difficulties are still present. Will not the people, consent that this jVlaoti King project should be put an end to, so that we may live'together as brethren * - In days gone by the Maori knew no greater delicacy than that which a cannibal feast furnished. This practice dates from the emigration from Hawaiki. By whom have we been induced to abandon this practice of cannibalism? By the Pakeha. We are now Fakehas. Look at the Maori dog-skin mats, at the flax garments, at the ornamental feathers worn, by the Maoides. These are not considered superior to the European clothing now worn by the Maories. We have received and become possessed of the good things of. the European, and one of us here present has been ordained a Minister, and you have seen his efficiency. Let us look and see which is the best, our system or that of the pakeha. So also with regard to this invention of ours which is said to have originated in the South. Is this a thing to be preferred to the system of the Pakeha ? Tamati Waka is a man of consistency, and he says that the King project shoutd be given, up. As to the flag that was brought to my place at Kapiti, I said, Take it back to Maungatautari, to the . place of your forefathers' boundary, and if the people there say Set it tip, then erect it there; if they say, Cast it aside, then take it where you like. Potatau was a Chief, and my idea is, that if he had lived he would have been the fiiend of Te Waka and of the Governor •, and he would have

been made an officer of the Queen. You may be right (addressing Te-Ao-o-te-rangi) you are enumerating the faults of the Pakehas, of the Ministers, and of the Governor; but let those faults be distinctly staled, that they may be clearly seen. (To Mete Kinyi:} It will be better that the Confeience be at Port Nicholson, which is the elder biother; I mean the next Conference. It will be well that it should be in the summer or early autumn, that there may be food. Your word, Mele Kingi, is correct, that we should be always under'instruction. The Bishop carries on his work by. instruction *, let the Governor carry on his by the same means ; let us not listen to what may be told us by anybody ,but what is spoken here may be received as correct. I think that on? eause of trouble and difficulty in this Island is the land. l am- trying to find out some good system of dealing with the land ; but it will be proper that theGovei nor should have the arrangement of whatever plan may be tried amongst the Maori people. Let the Governor appoint the persons to direct and carry it out. Thi3 Conference is now set up as a light for both races ; let this Conference beck-on to the tribes who are going astray in following the old Maori customs, that they may return into the good way. My thought is that the Governor should select a European gentleman and a Native chief, to assist him in carrying, out a system with reference to the lands sold by the Maories to the Governor. Their duty should be to supervise and to negotiate purchases,, also to'investigate and explain. By some such plan, in my opinion, a clear system might be carried out with respect to lands sold to the Government. There is much more which I have thought of, and which I have written down in the paper which I hold in my hand. 1 do not think It nas been devised by the elderly men, but by the young men. Te Heuheu is the only old chief, but he is foolish ; he is not like his elder bxoiher. He came to us, and said to me, The great name of Te Rauparaha will be lost. I said to him, You are ambitious (I am not so), for you did not hesitate to carry the corpse of your elder brother to the summit of Tongariro. Return to your place, and eccupy yourself with snaring tuis to set before your visitors. i Porutu, (Ngatiawa.) Wellington: All the "Words of this Conference have proceeded in. the direction towards what is good. Yours also, Tamihana, are good. The Bishop does not stay always in one place, but he carries the Gospel to every place. As to what you say about (the meeting) being at Whanganui, I say it is for the Pakehas to say where it is

to be. Mete Kingi's word is, however, rigiii when he says let it be taken to his place thai his people may see it. There are three places (where his people live), viz.,— Waitotara, Whanganui, and Rangitikei; for my part, I am going in darkness, theiefore, I say, it is not through the Governor, but through Mr. McLean, that evil will befal us —through the Land Purchaser; he will prevent us from increasing,—he alone. There is no more to be said. All I say is we shall not thrive, —Mr. McLean will prevent our doing so. Notuniil we see light and the sun shining shall we prosper. 1 return to what I said. He will be the weans of preventing nur thriving. Why does he not look behind him? With whom is the fault? The fault is with Mr. McLean* The cause of my darkness is that I left my people in the South dark wheal came away, and it is 1 alone who nm now enlightened. Tukihaumewe (Ngaiiuhakauc;, Rotorua—addressing Waikaio : Welcome, my son. Come with vour difficulty which involves the great ones. II*» was not a small one in the Maori world, but he followed this scheme as a means of making himself greater. Welcome hiiher. Yon do not agree to the King; cease to uphold it. Let the promotion of this scheme be left to Te lleuheu, Turoa, and Te«»loananui, —they are enough. [Addressing the Native Secretary:] There is nothing wrong in what 1 say, though they say lam wrong. Perhaps you are in doubt as to the purport of my words. lam carrying myself like a dog (in subjection). That word is right. At home it will be the same. Th<* King's word came to me to ihis effect; it is your word only that we arc "wailing for. I said, I will not agree to the King, not at all! If this setting up of a King bad been from the Queen, it would be right. Paora Tuhaere,(Ngatiwhatua,) Orakei: I rise to speak to what tamihana has said about the land. I agree to his speech. It is a thought which I have in my heart that I should give my lands to the Governor, and that the Governor should send a proper person to survey them, and I will cut the boundaries when surveyed. Let a notice be published in the newspaper that the Europeans, and also the Maories, may see. Let it be published for three or four months, and when it is seen that there is nothing wrong in the notice (no protest or objection), then Set the Governor give a document for that land, which will enable me to sell it to the European. If it should fee seen that- the

map (or notice) describing the land is wrong j (if the claim is disputed), then let a Committee settle it (by arbitration). But my thought, Mr. McLean, is that you should be the committee to look into the question. That is one of my thoughts. This is another, j I refer to the Crown Grant; that is one of j tbe things I very much wish to see given to the Miories, that is if the Governor should be willing to give us those documents. If the Governor grants this, then only will I say there is but one law. Hapurona Tohikura (Ngaliapa\ Wanganui: I will hoi withstand the Governor's words. I will cherish them as my vitals and put them in my heart. This is another of my words I wish others also to see. Even as the work of a minister is lo instruct, the Bishop instructs (his flock\ so now the Governor must cause instruction to be constantly given. But let a conference meet at Whanganui, t'.iat our relations who are living there may also ee ii. Pehimana (Ngarauru\ Waitotara: When the Ngatiawas sold their land from Tongaporutu to Ngarnotu, Taranaki shared in the payment. When Colonel Wakefield's payment was given, the boundary was at Katikara, and on to Kaoa. When it (the payment) was taken lo Taranaki, the boundary went on to Paiea. The Ngaiiruanui were excluded. From Patea on to Wheuuakura, and onto Waiiotara, is with me. My thoughts are busy about my land being sold by Potatau. lam living upon <t, and it is drawn from under me by Potatau. The Ngaiiawa migrated lo Kapiti"; Taranaki also and Ngaiiruanui. I(Ng;iraimrdidnol migrate; I remained upon my own land, and havedonesouplothisday. In the yea r .1839,1 with my land, stood in "the presence of the Governor and Mr. McLean. The arrangement was not concluded,—it still remains unsettled. 1 agree lo the word of Mete Kingi where he says let the conference be held at Whanganui as a means of disposing of my difficulties. Do not let this be convened once only. Let us be continually taught. Ihakara Ngariri Mete Kingi's word is not his own. Listen, 0 Governor, and this Conference. This word is from God: "Go ye and leach all nations." The Governor cannot altogether neglect that word. Let it be made known in all the places living in darkness. Lei ihe Governor see my faults, and all about me. For lhe Proposal

about a King was his,—llo doubt it is correct. Let the Governor go-and see those glares. Hone Wiremu Hipango, (Ngatilumango) Whanganui:: Listen, ye pebpleof the South, from Waitotara on to Port Nicholson. Listen all or you, This is my word. I wish you lo consent to the word put forth by Mete Kingi that a Conference shbuld be held at Whanganui. Bui lam thinking if Whanganui is the body, there is one wing long and one wing short: the Ngatiruanui side is the short wing—that is from them to Whanganui; iiie wing which is long is the wing towards Port Nicholson, including the Ngatikahungumi. Listen, my friends ! The thing which I like is that ihe Governor call a Conference, .1 agree to this, and say ii is good. When our gatherings for the administration of the Sacrament arp railed by the minister,and the people nssemb'e :U Whanganui, all the people come from Otaki and as fur as Poiima, Ihis is very good ; ihfie is no confusion, or difficulty. The majority agree to this arrangement and say—Yes, it is right. Listen, Mr. McLean, lei a Conference be bold at Whanganui. If it were a call from Maories to attend a Maori gathering, I would not agree (o tli;u. I should look upon that as coming from the mountains, jiikl not from the < taeari. Listen, if I -should hear any evil words or of any evil deeds, ! would stop my ears lest 1 should hear. But I will unstop my ears to hear good things. Listen, men of Waikato. I have a word respecting the name of Whanganui and of Pehi furoa which has been brought forward hero. It is a tree which others have reared, and the consequences fall upon Waikato, for you say that Taupo and Whanganui have brought you into trouble. No, it was yourself, To rs a,t Q. j $,, lbe only independent tribe, and is above all the others? But no, I also am a man at my own place (have a standing of my own). Do not seek to be like the sparrow-hawk or the great hawk which prey on all the other birds. That will be wrong. I sland firmly upon my own land. Let this'tribe and that tribe and the other tribe have their own thoughts. Say not that you are ihe greatest tribe, and above every other. No! no! That young lad who came to you acts as a child, and he sees some new game or dance, or something-else, and at once joins in the thing, lie is a child! ? you listen and " a ltfß*naaie "of that young lad is Te Mutu Muiu [Mutu, Maori for cease); And when be returned lie ceased, ceased, eettsed, for ever. Another was Pakait (Pa,

Maori for loucli); and he touched, touched and joined outright. Listen, another thing which is wrong is this: you Waikato are scheming to set yourselves high above others; Do not thus. My way is to make all level. Let me live as it were under the sole of the foot. sellers); the name of the men with you is Pupuri-Whenua (Land-holders). It is not my plan to withhold land anywhere. If the Governor call a Conference at Port Nicholson, to Port Nicholson I go; if it is called at Otaki, I! will go to Otaki; if ihe Governor call it at! Whanganui, it is well, Whanganui belongs ! to the Governor, so does Otaki, so does Port j Nicholson: these places are all his. But if] it is to be at Whanganui, I do not say make ! haste; it will depend upon whether fatness j or leanness be found. 1, 0 Governor, am j with you to lift up your hands. Enough :! bpad, Q? Chairman of. oifT Council at Whanganui. Hori Kerei (Ngatirauaka), Whanganui: I wish to speak about Crown Grants. I said to you at Whanganui—Give me a Crown i Grant for Whiritoa, for the place which is within the European boundaries. This also I desire, that the word spoken by Mete Kingi be fulfilled, and that the second of these Conferences be held at Whanganui. When j Christianity was first brought to us, I embraced and this also I desire to i embrace. Listen to me, let there be a | Conference at Whanganui; bm if you prefer j Port Nicholson, I shall say yes to "that. j Parakaia Te Pourpa, (Ngatiraukawa,) | Otaki:—Listen, Te Waka, I will follow upon what you have now said. What is the cause which has brought you here? Is it the Maori King? or is it Te Rangiiake's affair? What you say is right; those two things are the cause of our coming to this Conference. We have thoroughly mashed up (discussed) the subject of Te Rangitake during these many days past; the bits that yet stick in my throat the Governor will clear away, and I will carry them to my place to do the some. There is nothing else which troubles me besides these two things.—There is Potatau; he sells Auckland to the Government, and then leaves the Europeans to themselves. He goes off to Waikato and sets himself up as a King; still his word is good. We have heard from Te Waka that his word was. Be kind to the SETS' that Waikato is setting up a King; Potatau s professions at- the same lime are good. This

is also another word of his " Wash me, that I may be clean." My opiuion is, that this Conference should take up Poiatau's good words, that is, ihey should be written in a book, so that they may not be effaced. I rejoice at Te Waka's word, and therefore I say, Let ibis Conference take Bp (adopt) Potatau's word, that it may be on high, lifted up. I have been brought into trouble by this error. Wi Tako brought the flag to my land, and I then, for the first time, saw this evil thing. I have been brought into trouble through this thing; of yours, 0 Kaiipa, my relative. I have been made the subject of a song for my adherence to the Queen- % "Who is thy friend, 0 Parakaia? That you vainly wander about among your dreams? A fool thou art!" This has caused me no slight pain. I have felt it deeply. But. I say to this Conference, I will wait. If the Queen's system come to nought, then lam wrong; but if the system of the Maori come to nought through the means of the gospel and the Queen's authority, then they (ray opponents) will be found in the wrong in lime to come. Meeting adjourned to 23rd ins ant.