FOXTON-SANDON TRAMWAY EXTENSION.

Manawatu Herald, Volume XXXII, Issue 899, 1 October 1910, Page 4

FOXTON-SANDON TRAMWAY EXTENSION.

The following is a continuation of the debate in the House on the proposed tramway extension petition. In our two previous issues Mr Craigie’s motion that the petition do lie on the table and receive the favourable consideration of the Government, and Mr Newman’s amendment that the evidence be printed together with the Hon. Mr Millar’s evidence before the Committee, also Messrs Newman’s and Feild’s speeches, and a portion of the Hon. Millar’s reply, were recorded. The following is a continuation of the reply; — The Hon. Mr Millar said he was not interfering with the tramway ; but when they wanted : o connect their tramway with t ie Main Trunk Hue of railway, what was their object ? Was it not to divert the traffic to Foxton that went over that line ? An Hon. Member: It goes to Wanganui. The Hon. Mr Millar said he knew what went to Wanganui, and what would go to Foxton. He knew what was at the back of the whole agitation, and that was why he said that it was the duty of the Minister of Railways, whoever occupied that position, to see that the public interest was conserved and not the private interests of any particular section. This tramway had been in existence for years, and for the last ten years, he thought, they had been agitating for this, though not to the same extent as since the Main Trunk line had been opened. From that time they had been more urgent in their representations, because they could see a really good thing in it. An Hon. Member : They want the timber. The Hon, Mr Millar said, “What was the 830,000 ft. of timber?” “About ten truckloads a year.” An Hon. Member ; A lot more.

The Hon. Mr Millar said there could not be a lot more. The honourable member knew very well that the whole of the laud there was very closely settled now. There were, probably, not many men in that district who held four hundred acres in one farm. So there was not much room for closer settlement, and there was not an everlasting demand for timber. He believed there was a dairy factory or something of the kind built there that required a certain quantity of timber carried down to it. As he had said, the honourable member need not think that he worried about the evidence being laid on the table. He did not care if the honourable gentleman published it in every newspaper in the country, because what he (Hon. Mr Millar) had expressed his evidence was his opinion ; and the intention of the Government was to prevent the tramway being connected up with the main line of railway, for the reason that he had given to the Committee and to the House and was prepared to give to the people of the country. Mr Hogan (Wanganui) desired to say a word or two, as one who knew the district, on these tramway and railway lines. He quite agreed with the Minister that if this connection were made the tramway would take traffic from the Government railways, and, with all due deference to the honourable member for Manawatu, he could not imagine that there was any other object in view than that of taking trade from the Main Trunk line to the Port of Foxton. He had no objection to this. He believed that healthy rivalry between ports was good for trade ; but if a State Department was to suffer from the construction of a line of railway by a local body, it was the duty of the Minister and the members of this House to prevent that sort of thing from happening, because it meant that the general taxpayer would be called upon to make up any loss resulting from this competition. If this were a railway that was really wanted, he would be one of the first to support the honourable member for Manawatu; but he considered the district was very well served at present, and that if this railway were constructed it would, especially in the near future when the Port of P'oxton was deepened, come into keen competition with the railway, and would take the trade from the Main Trunk line and prevent its passing along the Government lines as at present. If the railways were returning a handsome profit and could stand much competition it would be all very well. If the district was one that urgently required such a railway it would again be all very well. It had been said that if the railway came, into competition with the Government lines the Government could take it over. That appeared at first sight a reasonable proposal ; but what did it mean? It meant that the Railway Department was to be compelled to take over a line they did not want because it competed with it, and which it did not want to construct at present. It virtually meant that the Government was to be compelled to construct —'lor taking over at the capital cost meant construction of another line—a line that was not urgently required.

Mr Newman : We offer to do it ourselves.

Mr Hogan had nothing to say with regard to the offer of the local body to construct the line ; but when the Government were offered the line he could only say that taking it over would be equivalent to constructing another Government line. There were other lines that were more urgently required, and that should be constructed instead of purchasing this one—-

at any rate, tor the present. He was surprised that the honourable member for Palmerston had not yet said a word on this subject. Mr Buick : Reave me to myself. Mr Hogan did not propose to leave the honourable gentleman to himself, but wished to remind him of the position as it affected Palmerston. If this line were constructed Palmerston would be sidetracked, and the trade from the Main Trunk line which at present passed through Palmerston would pass clear of Palmerston and down the coast at Foxton. Then the Town of Palmerston would be transferred to Foxton, and Palmerston would cease to exist. Therefore he was surprised at the honourable gentleman’s silence.

An Hon. Member: Pie would be interested if it were the dairy school.

Mr Hogan said that might be so ; but when it was a question of the construction of an important railway that would side-track Palmerston the honourable gentleman did not deem it necessary to say a word. If this line were constructed the trade which a present went north from Marton would not do so, neither would the trade that went south from Marton to Palmerston do so any longer. If the people of Foxton were progressive enough, and he believed they were progressive and farseeing, this trade would go down to Foxton, and the line from lyongburn to Foxton would be a non-paying concern to the Government. From this the House would be able to understand why the Minister of Railways objected to this line, and anybody who was conversant with the details of the scheme as they were placed before the Committee must realise that the railway could not possibly be constructed without coming into competition with the Government railway- If it would benefit anybody, or if it would return a rate of interest that would compensate for the loss on the other line, he would heartly approve of the proposal, but under the circumstances he failed to see that it was necessary. An Hon , Member: You did not vote against it.

Mr Hogan replied that, as a matter of fact, the honourable gentleman was mistaken ; he had voted against it on the Committee. There was another point in connection with the Government taking over this line, and it was that the rails were 401 b. rails, and that the track was not what it ought to be for carrying the Main Trunk train. If the Government took it over it would be at once brought face to face with an increased expenditure. A better track and heavier rails would have to be put down —yolb. rails ; so that in addition to having to pay the capital cost they would immediately have to put it in proper order to carry the trains down to Foxtou. This was not the kind of line the Government should take over. To say that the line could be taken over would cause many people to think that it was a reasonable proposition, but the reasonableness of it ceased to exist when one analysed the position and went into details, as ,he had done. Honourable members would now realise why the Minister thought this was not a railway that should receive the support the honourable member for Manawatu thought it should receive. To allow the line to be connected at Greatford or Martou with the Government line would mean the drainage of business from our State-owned railways. As he was sure the honourable member for Palmerston was anxious to say a word or two, he hoped when he did so he would take the opportunity of telling the House how he proposed to prevent the sidetracking of Palmerston. Mr Guthrie (Oroua) said that as one of the representatives of a district that was to a certain extent interested in th .s line, he desired to say a few wcrds, especially as he had had a very intimate knowledge of the whole matter from its inception. It seemed to him that the advantage of the settlers at large was put on one side by the Minister of Railways in favour of the question of making the railways pay. It was nonsense to say that it was only the district through which the tramway now ran that would benefit by the proposed extension. There was a very large district that would be served by it —the district all round Martou, which was closely settled the whole way to Foxton. When the line was first made it was a wonder to many that the people had the courage to build the tramline on their own responsibility, because it was a district composed of very large holdings ; but since then these estates had been cut up into small areas, and the country was now closely settled and fully cultivated. It was coming to the front in many particular lines, such as grass-seed, grain, butter, and fat stock. Then, they had dairy factories at Bull’s, Rongotea, and Glen Oroua, and he did not know how many creameries in connection therewith. The whole district was very closely settled for dairying and agricultural purposes from Martou down to the port. Now, it seemed that the Minister was afraid to allow the port to connect with the main line, and thus he was inflicting a dire injustice upon a large and important district. In regard to the remarks of the honourable member who had just spoken, it was quite patent to anybody who knew anything of the circumstances why he took the trouble to speak that afternoon. The reason the honourable member spoke was this: '.hat, as the representative of the port of Wanganui, he feared a competitor of that port he feared the competition of Foxtou. From Marton Junction a great

deal of produce was sent to Wanganui—a great deal of wool was sent there, and was shipped from there. The honourable member was frightened lest this trade should be diverted to Foxton; and, of course, he thought he was only doing his duty in taking up the position he had done —in trying to throw cold water on the scheme.

Mr Hogan : I did not refer to Wanganui. Mr Guthrie said he knew the honourable member did not meutiou the name “Wanganui,” but the whole trend of his argument was quite clear. The honourable member alluded to the honourable member for Palmerston, and taunted the member from that district for his silence on this subject, and made some reference to the completion ot this tramway as sidetracking Palmerston North, He (Mr Guthrie) desired to point out thar Palmerston North was a geographical centre of the railway system in that part of the Dominion ; it was the junction of the east and west coast railway services, and it could vever be affected to any appreciable extent by this tramway. It was, however, naturally the aim of the settlers in the district served by the tramway to get their produce carried by the cheapest method. If the Minister of Railways would remember his argument in connection with the North of Auckland railway he would admit this —at least, it was quite patent from his remarks that he was frightened of the competition of water carriage. The honourable gentleman made no secret of that. He did not agree with the honourable gentleman in one respect, for he declared that if he found that the trade was being diverted to Foxton he would cut the railway-freight rates so as to make shipment to that port unpayable. He (Mr Guthrie) said this was not a good or sound policy for a Ministry to adopt. The aim of the Government should be to assist the producer as much as possible. If the Government did so it would be doing what was best for the settlers and what was best for the country. The district which the proposed extension of the tramway would serve was an exceedingly large and fertile one, and the amount of produce it exported was very great. The importance of the proposed line was not to be measured by the length of line —eighteen miles —between Bulls and Foxton. There was this question also that had to be considered: that the settlers who first built this line did so with their own money, and for many years the traffic on the line was carried on at a serious monetary loss. That was the position at first; year after year they lost money by it. But the line was paying now, and it had been paying for a good many years back. The line had been much improved in respect to both the permanentway and the rolling-stock, etc. The district had done so much in building and improving the line that he thought it would not be too much for the Government to give them the facilities that they now asked for. If the line had been constructed and connected with Greatford it would have served the township ot Bulls —and Bull’s people all wanted it—and the Sand on and Rongotea people, who all wanted this work carried out, as also did the people of the township of Foxton. He thought, under the circumstances, it was a one-sided policy on the part of the Government to say to these people that they should not have this public convenience. Now, coming to his (Mr Guthrie’s) own district. Feilding was now getting a good deal of its goods via Foxton. Was the Government going to penalise the whole ot that district for the sake of increasing the railway rates there ? The Minister of Railways said that this work would not be sanctioned by the Government because it would decrease the earning power of the Main Trunk line. He quite agreed with the principle that the railways should be run on good sound business lines. But if they were going to make the railways pay by penalising a large section of the community in this way, he (Mr Guthrie) did not agree with the honourable gentleman. He could not allow this matter to pass without expressing his views on the question. He intended to support the amendment, so that the whole of the facts should be made perfectly clear, and that the public should be made aware of the Minister’s policy. {To be continued in our next issue.)