THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEBATE.

Manawatu Herald, Volume III, Issue 86, 28 June 1881, Page 3

THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEBATE.

(From the N. Z. Times of Friday.) Mr Murray moved " That, in the opinion of this House, local government is conducted under great disadvantages: (1) from defects in the system ; (2) from the local funds for the payment of rates to effect local improvements being absorbed by General Government taxation ; (3) from the counties having been deprived of the 20 per cent, of Land Fund (except in the case of New Plymouth) ; and that the Government be requested to bring in a Bill this session to remedy the above causes of complaint, and others which may be established during the debate upon this resolution." Mr Murray stated he had given notice of the motion according to the expressed wishes of the Bruce Council. He believed that the present Parliament could prepare a scheme of local self-government which the) might lay before the various constituencies, as he did not think it would be wise to pass such a measure during the present session. Tha abolition of the proav^inces had led to a disastrous result, whilst appropriation of three-eighths of the Customs revenue was fraught with great inconvenience, as also was the endeavour to appropriate the land fund. In addition to the Government taking away the rev.enne from local bodies they had taxed the people heavily through a property tax. The colony had to face a great difficulty ; many of the bodies were dependent upon the dole they might obtain from the Legislature, which system he condemned as demoralising and unjust. They required a system with which a maximum of work might be obtained by a minimum' of officialdom. They demanded that a part of the price of the land should be returned to the local bodies. The cities which returned two or more members should have the power to govern themselves, and those boroughs whioh did not return members should become wards of these cities. These and other reforms which might be effected would raise the members of that House above the level of provincial delegates, and would have the effect of making the Chamber the pride of colonial Parliaments. Mr Ormond was one of those who considered that hon. members should take the first opportunity afforded them of discussing the all important question of local self-government. He had been exceedingly disappointed that the question had not been more fully dealt with in the Governor's Speech. There were grave questions connected with the motion— reform of local self-government, revision of taxation, and consideration of the public works. What had the country got in the shape of local government, and did the provisions meet the requirements of the country? They hadmunicipalities,Road Boards and County Councils, \yith regard to municipalities he did hot intend to touch on them on the present occasion. The functions of Road Boards and Counties were confined to road making principally, but their functions and ■. interests clashed,, and in six counties the Councils tried to absord the Road Boards. There were cases in which Councils had announced that they would not continue to maintain the main trunk roads, thus abrogating their special features. Thiswas evidence that these councils were not performing their work properly, and this appeared to be the view entertained by the majority of the people. Our firat step towards reform would be decentralisation from the General Government, and, in addition, they must provide means whereby the local bodies might govern themselves. His idea to make the scheme effective -would be that revenues arising from taxation were to be used for the support of local bodies. But how were they to become decentralised, and what powers were they to ponfer upon the looal bodies ? The first »tep*wonld be to encourage the leading men of the country and the districts tdlcome forward and take part in the governing of these local bodies. With regard to the title these bodies should assume, he thought that that of counties should not be used, as in consequence of their unpopularity the new bodies would be heavily handicapped by using this came. He thought that the local governments should assume the. direction and control of the "Waste Lands Boards, an#. he would suggest that all these bodies should be abolished and their functions handed over to the local governments. The people at njcMant h*d no power at all, bo voice in 4be«fcWaate Lands Boards. ,J^ bis opinion the 'powers of. .the nominees ef the Waste Lands Boards should be transferred to local governing bodies, and thus the people woald have a voice on the sub. foot which they were all deeply interested inT Everywhere complain** were made that that was sot done and this was not done, or that whioh Was done was done improperly. He did not blame the Hon. the • Mfajirtwibc'l^andspfrhowaenot responsible Bormtfokaß, WM;.the system. There were B©ad~Boaidp and Education Boards; in $he oountry, and he was not one to say that the isttorinamedJ^MdsdW^o^do^e^^iitj^ beHbe twetbodiosto control the Education Roatds. /Jtrbere'wtae school boards whose antiai might be relegated to ttie }6eil bodies, who /wight aUio hay* control of the charitable aid fontf, &o. Railway control wot • moeb more difficult matter to deal *itb than any of the other questfeu be

had alluded to, but this he would say, that local requirements in regard to railway matters would be more advantaeeou»ly supervised by looal governments than by the General Government in Wellington. At present the boundaries of n Road Board could not be amended except by this House. Should a Road Board require a piece of land on the confines of another Road Board, application would have to be mnde to the Government, who, after makinsr inquiries from the other board interested, wonld probably return an answer declining to alter the boundaries. Under the present

•eAßtratfroventateDt-tfiere was no-«banee ofo ifi^jii'M' fp^ T> ""°ffn' : any grieyance. *$-t 'Wiv'S'yj^lf "DdMptJflJ. old 6yßt9m br^jfjtoa to.put in a conqifitfroim the question ol»^Rr'y«^[^'q ADBJimmj, his sutjiict ws^reßfent,™or*>irdea a .letter to thel Government;* Vho -4»- the* > c'oarß© of -time' returned an answer that the letter had bwn received and thus the matter ended, unless the a^ioanfeirewt,<«»^u han<ltb'tll6LMin. ist^r of the "day. The objection which '♦■ be made " How are you jroing to •Aj. "' r lobal ■■pttwnments 1" then jrrovidd *1_ " ti the Qovemment brought! Councils limited powers t» levy ft Wte lie itfaintaioed that the taxes raised by r local government* and spent in the cKstrfot?: in which they were levied would bo far better HiaiaK6.>m<frbtß'pi?>vi4e£ ***& f^ c™e ™ ' Government. Closely connected with local colony, which may 6e said «*' be nearly at a ; 8 6an«i-BtilL -at oreaent. He thought the j P^'Wokr W fairfylrfttd be fleali with 1 by Ib6al ! gdf effiWcnts. He no came io #e'^sifrnV wartit ttkelr 1 that thb pr« atenf Parliamterili Would deal sfttislactoti'v Hitb^'es^/gfeat ftuenticraß ? Let t^emiook at the onfc'oinfe . of last (r ssiwn. Was it VVtisfuctory;? (>p,;,jW'.)j f Tftis;.bD^ so, hj ihouglit it would be fin' use to attempt reform of local government tfyg ses3\ou l^oV ■{ndeea ! wnsit right that tn* F*ri«a-' ment should so deal with the matter. It #«ild be iar better to 1«b8 the necessary Bills, grant supplies, and tlirn prorogue. The Premier asked the House to allow him to say why he did not speak upon the question upon th? i present; oocijsion. Ho did not think that it would be right or fair to expert- thp-Gosiesnme^t to.t^ply ■,in r thjp face of the stateiaestof the Treasurer thaj; he would announce the views of the (»ovornment when he brougM down ! tho Financial Statement. (Hear, feear.) Hr BroWP thought that, the statement made by ,the. Premier wbb the moat estraordinars oao he had ever ? heiird full from the lips of any Minister, who thereby practically said be had not yet concocted a scheme of local self-goy^rniiient. 'J ho hon» m£fia« ber,, at length, advjocatcd a flyst.ejn of, local iolf.gevernuieat. . • Sir Gteorge stated that his district w&fl m favor of the abolition of tbo counties and the extension of powers to road boards,and the maintenance of ; niain .roads by thfl Government. Ho was quite at one with the views .expressed by \hiß joofls«it«e*t». m , He suggested .rf»at the House ,s|ionM adjoi|rn< for a week, which would givo tno Government time to matUre their Bill and enable hon. members to visit the Dunodin Exbjbi-. tion< : • •• -;■ ' !.•': ' : - ; ; ■■ : j ■ . Mr Bunny moved the ad journmeat of the . debate, in- order to enable the Treasurer- to bring do.wn his measure for local self-go-vernmenf, which was the *• burning '■• question of the day. The present system was a mistake, a return to Provincialism wus impossible, and the Government bad to deal with the matter without delay. ; Mr Moss said, that he considered that the conclusions arrived at by the hon. member for Olive were la me and impotent. UQ, hoped ,that the ion would not be left over for the consideration of the next Parliament, but tn&t some substantial scheme of a concrete character would he put hpfore the ronnfcry. The Measurer liad laughed nt the proposition that the Government should undertake the maintenance of main roads. It was no laughing mafc'er, jand it was one that should be undertaken by the GQVerninent. He did not thinK that tho re-distribution of seats should be delayed till the question of local government had been settled, for if the Locel Government Bill wore passed sixty members for both Houses would be a«nply sufficient, and, in addition, an enormous saving would ba effected in the General Government, sni the Treasurer would be able to come down with his Budget by which he would hare no difficulty in dpaling with the question of fi. nance. Mr Sutton did not altogether agree with the statement of tho hon. member for Clive that the County Councils had been a. failure. So far as the Hawke's Bay Council was concerned, ho -would assert that tho general opinion was that 'the county syatd^was an improvement upon provincial - ism. I?he new system, as proposed, would compel the retention of Highway Boards, and he believed that any new system would prove more costly than the one at present in force. He did not think it would be advisable to hand over the entire manag> - ment of the Waste Lands Boards to local governments — indeed, under the j resent system the people were more satisfied than they were under the old one of mar aging the wastelands of the colony. He thought that it would be better to amalgato ltoad Boards and County Councils', whosa interests at present clashed. He thought both Crown lands and native lands should be ! rated just the same ai private lands, and if this were dons he considered that local bodies could, in a measure, be recouped for the outlay they were put to. Mr Reader Wood thought that there was no other course for the Government to pursue than to ad journ for a time The htn. gentleman who moved the motion had neglected to give them particulars. The speeoh of the seconder was like " Hamlet " with tho Prince of Denmark left out. The whole question was one of finance. They had beautiful machinery which would not go ; beautiful wheels, but no motive power. It was money which was required, and;unless they obtained the money they could not solve the question. They might turn the present Ministry ont, and others would succeed,' bat unless they found out from whence they could obtain the money,' they could effect no lasting good. The Treasurer had stated that he intended shortly bring ing down his scheme, when probably he (Mr Wood) would oritioiae it, but thU he. would 4ay|. that unless the Treasurer stated where ho proposed the local bodies should obtain their money from, tha scheme would be fqtile. The money required was the entire question of the progress or the decadenqe of the country, and it was no use urging party or electioneering cries. The fact was that the people wanted roads. They asked the legislature for bread, and they gave them stones; they asked for mon«y,and they gave them dry debates and institutions. It was the business of the Legislature to crack tnls bard nut. It was not for them to go back to their constituents and say, they could not devise a scheme, for }f they did they deserved to be sent back again. They .might,, however, say that they bad tried and tuat they had failed. , H«re ther« were 120 or. 130 men assembled for » fortnight, and during that time they, had listened to nothing but dry, dreary f frivolous teetotal lectures. The Government had not acted' fairly with -the. Honsc^in opt bringing down some praotical measures. -The session would be frittered away, till at length the Bi|ls on the Order Paper would be .laughed out of the House, Mr Waiefi.ldhopwi the debaU would be adjournef Jao tbiit it might b> placed *t the bottom, oi the . nducefptper, and when, it was^Msiim^a other hon. members would be in a.pqntloi^ to «ddress tatnuvlvos to the DrVWallit'spolt* to tbo motion for the adjeturoment pi the debate, and ocrapied tho nlfM'ol w« Souse till diaatr bonr ( wben the woMon laplsto, .y.crhv.i ''/ • v ■ ■