PICKINGS FROM “HANSARD.”

Marlborough Express, Volume IV, Issue 197, 2 October 1869, Page 5

PICKINGS FROM “HANSARD.”

Import Duty on Cereals and Flour. Mr. Stafford, in his reply to Mr, Vogel on the question of imposing a duty on cereals and flour, read the following letter which he had received from Mr. J. S. Mill, touching upon the subject: — “ Avignon, Dec. 11th, 1868. “Dear Sie,— 'When I had the honor of receing yours of the 4th, September, my time was so fully occupied with our great electoral struggle, and other things, that I have been obliged to defer answering it till now, “ I have had a rather extensive correspondence with various persons in Australia respecting the sanction supposed to be given by the passage which you quote from my Political Economy to the protectionist doctrines then afloat. One>of my most recent explanatory letters, which was addressed to

Mr. Holden, member of the Legislative Council of Hew South Wales, has been printed in the newspapers of the Colony; and it is not unlikely that, since writing your letter, you may have seen it. “ The protecting duties, which I thought might sometimes be advisable in a young country, for the purpose of ascertaining by experiment the suitability of its circumstances for the naturalization of foreign branches of industry, are duties expressly imposed for a limited time not exceeding a few years—say from five to twelve or thereabouts, according to the case —and to cease peremptorily at the end of the period, unless it could be conclusively shown that the facilities given by the duties had been fairly used, but required some further and still more strictly limited time to make the experiment a fair one. “ Some Australians have assured me that the Australian protectionists do not carry their protectionist proclivities beyond this point. I observe, however, that the protectionist interests which are fostered by the protecting duties are raising up, as they have always done elsewhere, protectionist theories of the old type, and that the most exploded fallacies of the mercantile system are revived with a simple ignorance of all that has been written and proved against them, which is strange to minds accustomed to the subject as usually discussed in Europe. “ There is great danger that the duties, even if imposed ostensibly for a time only, would, at the expiration of the time, or before it, have been made permanent. But they were not, I believe, in every case imposed as temporary duties, but were as permanent as any Acts of the Colonial Parliaments.

“ I am now much shaken in the opinion which has so often been quoted for purposes which it did not warrant; and I am disposed to think that when it is advisable, as it may sometimes be, to subsidise a new industry on its commencement, this had better be done by a direct annual grant, which is far less likely to be continued after the conditions which alone justified it have ceased to exist. —I have, &c., “ J. S. Mill. “Hon. E. W. Stafford, &c.” Over charge to Marlborough by the Stafford Ministry. Mr. Eves wished to put a question to the Government without notice on September 2. The Auditor’s report on the finance accounts for the year 1868-69 showed that the Province of Marlborough had been charged the sum of £954 more than it ought to have been on account of sinking fund and interest on the million loan, in the settlement of accounts between the Province of Nelson and the Province of Marlborough. He was de-irons of knowing whether the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer would see that that mistake was rectified, and the amount paid over to Marlborough as soon as possible ? Mr. Vogel said that if it was found that the mistake had been committed, no doubt the Government would take steps to see that it was rectified. Another over charge discovered. Mr. Hall asked the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer what steps the Government would take to repay to the Province of Marlborough the sum which had been twice charged for interest and sinking fund on the New Zealand Company’s loan during the half-year ending 31st December, 1867, which amounted to about £2,000. Mr, Yogel said, that if the Colony had made an improper charge against the Province of Otago would be in the same position, and that both Provinces had been charged with the same amount twice over. He was not in a position, without consulting the Auditor-General, to say whether the mistake had been made, but, of course, if it was found that an error had been committed, it would have to be rectified. The Marlborough Drainage Act. In the House of Representatives on August 31 during a discussion on the Provincial Acts Validation Act Continuance Bill Mr. Dillon Bell said that he hoped honorable members had now been able to consider the position of this Bill. On a previous occasion he pointed out that although the Legislative Council had struck out a Marlborough Ordinance from the schedule to this Bill, yet the Bill affected so largely other . Provinces,, and especially Canterbury whose Ordinances were included in the schedule for. validation, that it was most important that the Bill should be passed. The honorable member for Wairau, notwithstanding the appeal which he (Mr. Dillon Bell) made to the. House as to the passing of. the Bill, asked that an oppor-. tunity should be given to the Legislative Council for reconsidering its decision;. He (Mr Dillon Bell) stated at the. time that he did not think that there was the least chance of the Legislative Council yielding on the point. It was seen now that, the conference had been fruitless; and- as he did not think the honorable member for

Wairau could now think it wise to interpose further obstacle to the passing of the Bill, he (Mr. Dillon Bell) appealed to the House to support him in the motion. That this house do rescind their resolution disagreeing with the amendments made in the Bill by the Legislstive Council. If that motion was agreed to, he would move, That this house agrees with the amendments made by the Legislative Council, as originally communicated to the House.

Mr. Eyes would move as an amendment, That the House do request a free conference with the Legislative Council on the amendments made in the Bill, and that the previous managers on behalf of the House be re-appointed as managers. There had been scarcely anything that could be called an opportunity affording for arguing in favour of the objections by the House to the amendments made by the Legislative Council. He did not believe that there was any danger of the Bill not being passed through the adoption of the course which he now proposed; for he felt confident that upon reflection the other branch of the Legislature would yield. At all events, he thought that the responsibility in the matter should be thrown upon the Legislative Council rather than that Marlborough, because of its comparatively insignificant representation in the House should be treated as it had been on a matter which was largely important to the Province. After a free conference, if there was no change obtained, he would cease opposition to the amendments made by the Legislative Council.

The Speaker said that a free conference could only be had after two ordinary conferences had been had ineffectually. The House had already been once reminded of its own Standing Orders on the subject by the other branch of the Legislature. Mr. Fox said that after the promise of the honorable member for Wairau, as to withdrawing from opposition if there was no result from the conference now proposed the Government would accede to the honorable member’s proposal. But it was most important that the Validation Bill should be passed. He had during the day received no less than three messages from Canterbury as to the passing of the Bill; and other Provinces also were greatly interested.

Mr. Hale hoped that the House would not yield to the proposal of the honorable member for Wairau. There had already been one ordinary conference, which, although it had been pressed on with expedition, had taken four days for its work ; and there would have to be a second ordinary conference before a free conference could be had. It was hopeless to expect that the two could be got through in less than a week ; and, after taking trouble to ascertain, as far as it was ascertainable, what the result was likely to be, he concluded that there was not the least chance of the Legislative Council yielding. If the Government supported the proposal of the honorable member for Wairau, he (Mr. Hall) hoped that the Government would give a pledge that the House should not be prorogued until the Validation Bill had passed. Mr. Fox.—The Government cannot give such a pledge. We must prorogue on Thursday if possible. Mr. Hall trusted that, such being the position of matters, the House would not allow the passing of so important a Bill to be endangered by adopting the proposal of the honorable member lor Wairau.

Mr Bunny hoped that the honorable member for Wairau would not peril the Bill by pressing his amendment. If the Marlborough Ordinance now struck out of the schedule was so greatly important to the Province, he would suggest to the honorable member that, next session, without waiting for the annual Validation Bill he should bring the question forward at an early period, so that it might be fully considered. Mr. Main supported the view taken by the honorable member for Wairau. He had carefully considered the Marlborough Drainage Bill, and he believed it to be a useful measure. He hoped the House would not be influenced by any parly consideration, but he guided by the merits of the Bill. ,

Mr. Eves had no objection to act upon the proposal just made by the Hon. the Premier' and would undertake to withdraw all opposition should the result of another conference be unfavourable to the Bill. Mr. Fox said the difficulty was that there would be no chance of having another conference before the prorogation. Mr. Dillon Bell said that although he differed very strongly with the Bill, thinking its provisions altogether unreasonable, he should have been most glad if the Legislative Council c uild have seen their way to have it validated this session.

i He knew it was perfectly impossible to hope that the Council would give any further attention to this matter, in view of the early prorogation of Parliament. That being the case they should not interpose any obstacle to the present motion to allow the Ordinances of other Provinces to he continued this year. No harm could be done by the Marlborough Drainage Act being excised from the Validation Act this year, as there could he no very great drainage works carried into effect during the recess. The honorable member next session could have it inserted in a validation Bill, or in a general Bill. Question put, “ That the vote of this House, disagreeing with the first amendment of the Legislative Council, be rescinded,” upon which a division was called for with the following result : Ayes, 32.—-Messrs. Baigent, Ball, Dillon Bell, Bradshaw, Brandon, Burns, Carleton, Clark, Collins, Creighton, Curtis, Fox, H. S. Harrison. W. H. Harrison, Heaphy, Kenny, Kerr, Ludlum, McLean, Munro, O’Neill, ."Stafford, Swan, Tancred, Tavlor, Travers, Wells, Wiliam* son, J. C. Wilson, C. 15, Wood. Toilers, Messrs. Bunny, Hall. Noes, B.—Messrs. Burff, Dignan, Farnall, Kelly, O’Rorke, Parker.—Tellers, Messrs, Fyes, Main. Majority for, 24* The motion was consequently agreed to. Mr, Dillok Bell moved that the amendments made by the Legislative Council be agreed to. Mr. Eyes, before the question was pnt, would make a last appeal to the House on behalf of the interests of the Province of Marlborough, which were of an important nature, and which in this case had been entirely neglected by the House, while questions of a purely local character affecting only a very few people, received much more attention at the hands of honorable members. He hoped the statement of the honorable member for Mataura, that next year he would come down to the House and do its best to get this Bill validated, would be borne in mind, and that he (Mr. Eyes) would not he placed in the same position as he was when he accepted a suggestion made last year not to raise any objection, as he would jeopardize the whole Bill. Now he was,told to wait again until next session, and in the meantime there was the poor Province of Marlborough suffering, and the House did uol care a straw about it as long as the Ordinances of other Provinces were validated.

Mr. Fox desired to sny that no member of the Government had any interest whatever in the question which affected the Marlborough Act; but they did feel greatly interested that Provincial legislation which was effected by the other Acts embraced in this general Act should not break down on account of the particular Act of Marlborough. He would suggest to the honorable member that if he wished to give his Act a fair chance next session, he should make it the subject of a special Bill. Mr. Dillon Bell said he would do his best to introduce a general drainage Bill, and failing that, he would promise the honorable member that if he would bring in a Marlborough Bill, and allow a fair opportunity foramendingthe objectionable clause, he would give him his best assistance to pass it into law. Motion agreed to.