Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume X, Issue 622, 23 October 1858, Page 3

Provincial Council.

Tuesday, Oct. 19.

The Council mcl at 5 p.m. Present—the Sneaker, Messrs. Ollivier, Cass, Duncan, Dobbs. Fooks, White, Rhodes, Bishop, Mi!n, Ilrmnan, Tern pier. Ward, Ross, Cooksoh, i J;ick<;r, Hall, Thomson, Fyfe, and Wyatt. Prayers being rta:l, and the minutes of the previous meeting recited, the journal and other returns of the inspector of sheen were laid upon the table. Mr. Oi.uvtEit asked leave to postpone the first four notices on the paper, which were—the Reply to the Address; resolutions on the nian-auLiiu-nt of Gaols; the. Suworajre and Dramas Bill; and a Diversion of I lout] s Bill. Leave given. lU.AXTIXO OP FOREST TREKS BILL. Mr. Oi.uviKit then moved for leave to introduce a bill to encourage ths phiming of Purest Trees, th<? details of witi.;h he explained. A tenant of more than ten acres of land inijrht register any trees which he had planted on that land, in a form given in the schedule, a copy oi •vhicli must be sent to the landlord. On notice bein£ {liven by the tenant 12 months before the lense expires, the landlord must decide whether lie will purchase the trees or allow the tenant to cut them ilium, ii' he decides to purchase, the amount most be agreed upon within \4 ' days, or fixed by arbitration. If the trees are not purchased and the tenant cuts them down, he must clear the ground of roots and stumps, and leave it in a tennntable condition, previous to the expiration of hi-j lease. The ordinance would not affect nny e::i-itii ;^ lease, nor would it override a special proviso in aty lease. A list of forest trees within the meaning of the ordinance was annexed, to which additions might be made, if necessary, by the Council. Leave given. Bill brought in, read a first time, and ordered to be printed. IMMIGRANTS' BAI'.IiACKS BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this I biii. j Mr. Bisaor wished to know what ths duties iof the Immigration Otficer to be appointed i under this ordinance would be. It seemed to j him that such an appointment was quite super- | iluous, as the duties to be performed were light ' and only occasional. His object in drawing attention to tnis point was that the redundancy of officers might be kept down, by not appoint- | ing a new one. unless there was plenty of tin- ! pioymer.t for him. He asked for information.

Mr. ■Or.r.ivfKß said that this appointment involved no addition whatever to the staff of officials, for no function-; or duties would have to be performer! more than were already being executed. The new ordinance would simply j clothe the person who now had the work to do j with power to carry out his duties efiecrually; by giving him the authority of law. It was not the intention of the Government to appoint a special salaried officer: and though he did.not say that the extended scheme of immigration in which the province had embarked -would not involve snme. extra expense in the department, it -svnuld be very small; not £50 a-year. The bill, if looked at in its- proper light, was not one giving power to the to appoint a new officer with a salary, but giving authority to an officer whose duties already existed. The bill was then read a second time. TRESPASS OF CATTLE AJIEXMEM BILL. The Council went into committee on this bill. Mr. Ross being moved to the chair. Clause 2 be<ng read, having reference to the penalties to b? enforced for trespass on insufficiently fenced lands ourside towns, at the instance of the Government the amount'of the penalty was left out. a complete scale to be | placed in a. schedule, and uncultivated to he ! placed in the same category as cultivated lands.' j Mr. Hall drew attention to that part of the j section which reduced the rates for night tres- j pass on land not functit within six months after i first cultivation. It would make the law even j nmre difficult to be understood by the public ! than it was at present. The difference between ; one period and another would encumber tiie pro- j ceedings by obliging investigation in every case i as to the date of full cultivation and fencing. ■ He m:>ved as an amendment that that part of I clause be expunged. !

Jlr. Doubs seconded the amendment, and expressed his agreement with the view stated by Mr. Hall. Mr. Mii.x supported that view also •. lie objected further* to the proposed increase oS penalty, instancing cases in which it would have injurion* effects. Mr. TiioMSox suggested that iiistinction should hi drawn between agricultural and pastoral country. Mr. Waisd thouglit the part proposed to be expunged was (lie main part of the clause, in u-hk-h'tlie law was laid down for general cases. The former part, giving heavy penalties for nia'.it trespass during six months after firs: cuTtivntion* was sur.ply a proviso, allowing so much 'arace' to a farmer. To leave out the latter part would be take away the force of the clause, by which it was intended to lay down the rule that damages sustained on crops to which no protection was given by a fence, should not he rmid for at such a rate as would make it worth a man's while to leave his land imfeneed. Mr. Thomson pointed out further that to incr«i<e the penalty to bs recovered for trespass on usi fenced and uncuUivatetl land would increase the injury inflicted by the present law in its operation in the pastoral districts instead of dhnimshin-rit as was desired. Mr. Rhodes did not see the propriety of 'rrivin^lar^t* damages to holders of uncultivated hind T norVicl he see any use in making a distinction for the first six months only, during which time no crop that was worth the damages to 1 c recovered could be raised. Mr. Tumpleu agreed with the la-t speaker, lie lK'iievLHl that he spoke foe general sentiments of fanners tb.emscl.-cs when he said that to grant high penalties for trespass on uncultivated fund was to give a premium upon slovenly 'farmi'iir. IDneouragom^nt of a oareful style of farmiii'i- was c>:«ontial to ibe agricultural prosii(V;Uv of t':ic pr-jvinco. If cave was not taken in iV:v.-ani!i tiu1 hiw. i! vom1:1 bo quite possible to uniko iuore by lines than by cultivation.

Mr, Dobbs thought the way out of the difficulty was to make it a rule that no heavy damages could be recovered on unfenced land ; let the six months provision be left out. Every one was now in a position to fence ns soon as he wanted to cultivate. Mr. Oluviek and several others having spoken to this point,, the amendment propose! w.-.s carried ; and the clause as amended put and pa-scd. ; Om clause 3, proposing fn mnke a distinction in the manner of pounding cattle-beyond live mi:cs from a town, after a.short disscussion, the clause was abont to be withdrawn. Mr Hall suggested.that; Jhe clause should be retained with the omission of the above provision for the purpose of introducing into it another iimt'iHiniuH on the existing law by making it possible to drive cattle trespassing to the pound,in eases where the oy/ner was unknown. At present, it was allowed to keep them twentyfour hours in custody on the premises, then on giving notice to the owner to drive them to the pound; but where the owner was not known, nothing could be dune.

Mr. Fooks coul 1 not assent to this proposal. It gave a great, power to the person trespassed upon, fur there would be no means of ascertaining -.vhet'ner he possessed a knowledge of the owner of the cuttle which he was sending to the X>ouud or not.

Mr. Duxca* could not agree to this proposal either. It opened a v.-idy field for the exercise of ill-wiil on the.part of any one against hisneighbour; for in case of trespass lie would drive the cattle to the pound to the annoyance of the person against whom he might,ha ve'.a spite; and there would be no means nf detecting that he had done so with the knowledge., of who the owner was. Messrs. Thomson, Conkson-. and others spoke in favour of the amendment;-and the question was carried to a division, when there appeared— Ayes: Messrs. Thomson, Hail, Packer, Cookson, Ward. Tern pier, Harumn, Miln, Fyfo, Rhodes, Dubbs, Bowtn.—l2. Nues: Messrs. Bishop, Wyatt, Pocks, Cass f Duncan, Oilivier.—6. Tiie amendment was therefore carried, and the clause as amended put and passed. On clauie 4, Mr. Hall drew the attention of the Government to his former sugges;icn about the offence of pound-breach being made punishable summarily, instead of a misdemeanour cognizable only by inehetment before the Su--pr»-me Court. Mr. Dcscak suggested that it would he in the power of the Council to place a penalty of £50 ou six months' imprisonn e/)t uiea the offence! to be recovered in a summary way, and the clause would be amended in accordance.

The sth clause was carried and progress reported. police ror.CE bill. This bill was gone ;nto in committee, Mr. P.osS in the chair, and most oi' tlie" tUuses were considered, and carried with slight alterations. _ A few clauses were postponed U r further aniideration, and progress was repor;eJ.

Message ISTo. t

Mr. Ollitikk moved that this message be cotislderecl. It enclosed a petition from Samuel ; B:irwell, who had been a corporal-irr the Jiffle Brigade, and having been wounded in the Crii mean war applied for the grant of land which I the regulations allowed in such cases. The circumstances of the case were as follows:—Bar well had first served i.i the Caffre war; then in the C.-imea, obtaining promotion for good conduct an.:l merit<i;i >us "services. At the sharp action before the Ke.lan, he was wounded severely lira ball thri'uuii his foot. He returned to -England in winded," in April, 15,".5, and was discharged, uncurc-d. in the middle of the following month, with a pension. After' this lie was laid up for 12 months, not having recovered the use of his leg. He then came to hear of the clause in our: regulations offering a grant of land to persons in his situation, and on Mr. Fi;z Gerald's arrival,' immediately laid his case before him. He -was recommended to apply to the Waste Lands Board, and he made a written application accordingly.. However, having taken his passage by the Maori in March last,-he did not get to the province till the beginning of July, when he was six weeks too late to apply within the period prescribed by the regulations," viz.,.three years from the time, of discharge. He was thus cut-off from the benefit of the provision, unless he could obtain it by the present application to the Council. He (Mr. <.).) would suggest that his Honor theSuperintendent be "moved to place upon theestimates a sum of .£6l} to be appropriated by the Treasurer in the purchase o:' oi) acres, of. land, the amount allowed in the regulations. The case was a goad one and well supported, and lie thought .one worthy to be made an exception to the general rule. Mr. Hall seconded the motion. He had opportunities of knowing the facts and could say that the applicant was a well conducted man, and that the case was worthy the consideration, of' the Council. The position was one which was practically.contemplated by the regulations, and la- thought that by adopting the suggestion of the Government they would be acting up to. thespirit of the law. The resolution was then put ami passed. WHARF UEGULATION JUhh.

Mr. Oi.uvjku asked leave to brinpr an a bill" with the above title, the object of whielt was to remedy several practical inconveniences which, were felt at present in the managevTieiit of public wharves and jetties. Power was there given to the Superintendent-to make regulations St>r the conduct of business, ami penalties Avers imposed for non-eonfortnance. One great olj;ct would be atta-n.d. viz., the formation of a uniform system of nvina;jenieut wilh that *>f r.ei"! buring provinces, and thereby facilities would be. given to transaction of business by strangers who were accustomed to other ports. : Leave given. Bill brought in, read a first, time, and ordered to-bi printed. LOWER LKCOI.K ROAD. Mr.'Mii,s rose to ask the following questions: v What steps have been taken towards re-, building the bridge over the river Henthcote on the L-nver Lincoln Road, and also in opening the nvad from the sth to 17th miica 'ml joining the ElU'smure Ro.td, by uiuans of culverts aadi bridges?

.*' What steps have been taken towards building a bridge across the Halswell, at the corner ■of Parish's section?

" What has been done towards draining the Xincoln Road Swamp? and if it is the intention ■of the Government to go on with that work?" The Heathcote Bridge was in a very bad state • and the road there during the winter had been 1 almost impassable, lying in places six inches under water. He could not conceive why things had been allowed to go on in this state. The Engineer's report stated that the culverts and bridges necessary had been stopped for want of timber. He would be glad to know whether •there was not neglect to be attributed to the Government for not providing timber.

Mr. Olliviek said that the timber necessary was really not to be had. Even that tor such an important work as the Lyttelton Jetty had only just come to hand. As to the formation of the road, it was the intention of the Government to metal up to the fifth mile as soon as possible. But they did not propose to go on with the regu;lar formation of any part which they were not rable at once to cover with metal, for such a .course would not tend to improve the conamuni- > cation. Only such works as were of pressing ; necessity on the further portions were being •.carried out; and with them progress was being made, not only here and there but in every direction. The works in draining which Mr. Miln referred to would be gone ou with directly. As *o the bridge over the Hals well, at Parish's corner, it was the case that the road there would have to go over private land, and nothing could be done until arrangements could be made with i'ihe owner.

• On ?tl*e motion of Mr. Hall, the petition of TMr. C. E. Sampier was referred to a select committee, to consist of Messrs. Ollivier, Packer, Alport, Harman, Cass, Biakiston, and the mover.

Notices of motion were then given, and the adjourned till next:evening.

The Council met at '5 p.m. . Present—the Speaker, Messrs. Ollivier, Cass, •Duncan, Dobbs, Fooks, Fyfe. Hall, Harman, 'Packer, Ehodes, Thomson, Templer, Miln, Boss, •White, and Wyatt. Prayers being read and the minutes of the previous meeting recited. The' Planting of Forest Trees Bill, and the Wharf- Regulation Bill, were each read a second ;.tinie. 'Mr. OtLrviEE .moved that an address be pre - ■ sented to his Honor the Superintendent praying that he will be .pleased to make the following reserves:— 64ft acres near .-the Arowenua Bush on the northern bank ,of-the Tuinukaka Eiver, for a .township. A spit or tongue of land running out into the -sea opposite section.-2Q7in Pigeon Bay,for shipi building purposes. tlßesolution agreed to. .*-CATTLE-"TRESPASS BILL. The Council went into.committee on this bill, Mr. Fooks being^movedsto ±he chair. Clause 3 was recoasideced and passed, and a schedule of penalties inserted. iThe bill was then-repotted. _ . - ,ASMEB POiICE-H>BCB BILL. The Council went into committee on this bill, .Mr. Fooks being.againin the-chair. Sub-sections £ Tin-dattse 7 were passed amendments. Clauses 9, 10, 11, and :12 .-were (Considered and agreed>to. Thejbill was'then reported. Notices of .motion were given SBd the Council . adjourned till next evening. .Thursday, 0ct..21. ' The: Council met at 5 pjn. Present—the Speaker, Messrsrfiilivier, Duncan, Cass, Dobbs, Fooks, :Thomson, Rhodes, : -Davis, Hanman.Bishop, Ward, White, Studholme ilioss, Packer, ;Hall, .and MUn, After prayer, the minntesof the preceding ; ■ meeting being read, Mr. .Dobbs gave: notice that he weald move Whe recommittal of the Cattle, Trespass BiiL INSPECTION OF SHEEP. "M-rJSldss rose according to notice to wa.sk "*'whether, since the date at which the Isspect'xn* -of She'fip reported the flock of Mr.-Moore to be -'scabby,, any official declaration has *been! made iby tfche Inspector that the flock has beecelfianed ." Ue jrould simply put the question =as at stoo> i, without further comment, Mr. Ollivier replied that;the qaestion hs d been put to the Inspeetorof Sheep, and n state :- raent tad been returned in writing by thst oflice r (which gavethe facts of the case. It-stated ths it on such a day the "flock of Mr. Moore Ir t%spectednnd pronounced scabby, that Mr. Slooi -c was lined on a certain date, and that the flock :had not since been declared clean. This wsas the answer he had to give to the -question. Mr. Eoss: Then the return which was laid on j the table two days ago, purporting to be a statt :- 'tnent of the diseased 'flocks in the frrovinee, bat which does not include Mr. Moore's flock, is net ■to be depended upon! Mr. Ollivier: That return must betafcen by the Council quantum valet. It is evidently incorrect. Mr. Ollivier, -according to desire expressed, *took the last notice on the board, which -was to move a reply to his Honor's address. He laid rthe draft upon the table, having Tead it, and pro--posed to move its consideration on Tuesday aaext. Itds in the following terms:— REPLY TO THE ADDRESS. -" The Provincial Council tbank yoar Honor for the Address with which the Session has beea opened. "It is gratifying to the Council-to find the General Assembly has adopted without mutilation the Legislation of this province ia reference to Waste Lands. "The Council believes that to-'the soundness of the system which prevails in the -sale of these lands is to be attributed much of our provincial ■prosperity, and they concur with yoar Honor in believing that the experience of the past has -tested the wisdom and care with which those regulations were framed, and has -shown ua the almost impossibility of aiEdsinssray other sysijrai wiiich cemia "be^ufcteuSea *ith equal advan-

■tage to the country. The Council cordially reciprocate the hope that any attempt which may be made in the General Assembly to deprive the province of this portion of her power of Local Self Government may be frustrated. "It is a source of satisfaction to the Council to receive from your Honor so favorable a report of the state of the public revenue, as well as to receive your assurance that the public works will be prosecuted with vigour. " The Council are fully convinced of the importance to the commercial interests of the Province, and of the advantages to be derived from the establishment of a secure and expeditious mode of communication between the port town of Lyttelton and Christchurch, and they will give to any proposal you may transmit to them having reference to so important an undertaking the careful consideration it will demand. " The Council will also give to the several bills to be laid before them that attention which their social importance requires; and while they desire gratefully to acknowledge the confidence which your Honor reposes in their deliberations, they cannot but express their hope that their efforts, conjointly with your own, may result in the continued promotion of the happiness and prosperity of the Province." The introduction of an amended IScab and Catarrh Bill, which had been fixed for this evening, was postponed, by consent, till Thursday next. Sir. Thomson, according to notice, moved for a. return of all contracts for surveys entered* into from the beginning of the financial year to the present data —Agreed to. immigrants' barracks bill. This bill was considered in Committee. It was discussed, clause by clause, in an animated conversation of some length. There were two divisions during its progress. On clause 4, giving power to the Immigration Officer to demand from any person coming upon the premises his business there, and on noncompliance with the demand to give him in charge to a police constable to be taken before a Justice of the Peace to be punished according to law, Mr. Thomson moved an amendment, giving the officer power to insist ui>on the withdrawal of any visitor. The wording and general effect of the clause were discussed at length, and finally the amendment was put to a division, when there appeared Axes: —Messrs. Thomson, Hall, Packer, Boss, Studholme, Miln, Davis, Rhodes, and Dobbs—9. Noes; —Messrs. Ward, White, Harman, Bishop, Bowen, Cass, Duncan, and Ollivier—B. The amendment was therefore carried. In clause 7, on the words giving power to the officer to remove from the barracks any immigrant " who may refuse to accept such suitable service proffered to him or her at such remuneration as may, in the opinion of the Iramigratioa Officer, appear fair and reasonable," objection was taken by several members to the power thus proposed to be given to the officer of determining what wages were or were not reasonable. The discussion rose at one time into a debate on the principle of the bill, Tiz., whether its provisions were the fit subject of an. act of Council, or should more properly be contained in regulations to be issued by the Superintendent. On the question that the clause do stand part of the bill, the Committee divided, when there appeared— Ayes:—Messrs. Cass, Duncan, and Ollivier —3. Noes:—Messrs. Thomson, Hall, Packer, Eoss, TFard, Studholme, White, Harman, Bishop, Miln, Davis, Rhodes, Dobbs, and Bo wen—l 4. Mr. Ollivieb then moved that the Chairman report progress, stating that it would be necesi tary for the Government to consider whether they would go on with the bill or not. PLANTING FOREST TB.EES. The Council theh went into Committee on t'bis bill, Mr. Fooks again in the chair. The only two questions upon, ■which discussion arose were upon the means by which the value ctf the timber should be secured to the tenant in (:ase of promised purchase by the landlord. A proposal to oblige paymenjt or security six i nonths before expiry of the lease was put to division, when there were 14 votes for and 3 igainst. The other was upon the proposal to make the provisions of the ordinance binding upon all existing leases, unless notice should be given by the landlord within a specified time from the passing of the ordinance. This also went to division, showing for the amendment 7 rotes; against, 10. The clause was therefore passed as originally worded. The clause enumerating the species of trees was postponed, and progress reported. PUBLIC BOABJDS BILL. On the motion for the 2nd reading of this Me. Ollivieb, went through the provisions of the bill minutely, recapitulating the points as described previously by him, in moving its introduction. The Government had filled up the number of members for a board ; proposing that there should not be more than 8 nor less than 5. He would take occasion to mention that the Sewage and Drainage Bill should be considered supplementary to but distinct from the present one. The former was modelled on the English 'Health of Towns Act.' The duties would be the superintendence of purely local affairs, the expense of which would be met by local rates ; it would therefore be only brought into operation when asked for by the inhabitants. These duties naturally would devolve upon the boards constituted under the present bill; but it should not be forgotten that ! the bill now under consideration contained no power to levy rates or taxes. It simply gave permission to spend the sums voted by the Council. Herein it differed from the bill once i ntroduced to give a corporation to the town of Lyttelton. Mr. Packer hoped that the Government would find as much advantage result from the operation of this ordinance as they expected, but he did not think they would. He had objected to the * Way wardens' bill when it was before the Council in a former Session, and should to this, and for the same reason, that he knew it would fall a dead letter, it would never be acted upon. He would be no party to loading the Statute

book with useless laws ; the only possible good of this one would be to relieve the Provincial Engineer from some of his trouble; but he would prefer to see it done in a simpler way—if assistance was wanted, give it by increasing the strength of the department. Then again, he could not conceive how the business of public works could be performed by a Board whose members were unpaid. It was notorious that in this country men would not work tor nothing; they would not do duty except that duty was paid "for. The Chairman ot the Board would not be a regular official who could be compelled to look after his work; and it the Government thought that they could by this means throw a portion of their burden off their own shoulders on to a set of commissioners, they would find themselves mistaken; for no one would devote his time and energies to work without pay. From his experience of works undertaken "by committees without remuneration, he apprehended the perfect failure of the scheme. Then as to taxation, which the Government were so proud about keeping out of the bill, it was all a bugbear; it was all very well to keep it out of the way for the present and say nothing about it; but any sensible man must see that it would come some day. They might keep it outside the door so long as land kept on being sold at the present rate, but by and bye they would have to open their doors to it. The wants of the place were increasing rapidly, and presently they would become so great that the land fund itself, of which so much -was said, would be insufficient, and would have to be supplemented by taxation of some sort to meet them. Taxation itself was not objectionable. What he complained of was unjust, unequal taxation, such as was levied at the present day in the shape of voluntary contributions, where the same amount to the names of two persons appeared like a liberal contribution from each, whereas, in point of fact to one it was an immense amount, but to the other a mere trifle. He hoped that the present bill would be deferred till something in the shape of a Municipal Corporation Bill had been tried in accordance with the petition from Lyttelton. This form of creating bodies to assist the Government in their work would be the most convenient and successful, for there might be some little dignity attached to the chief officer; if he was not to be called a ' Mayor' perhaps he might have the name of 'High Bailiff,'which would stand instead of pay to some men. He would repeat that an attempt to get the work of the country done by unpaid officers would be hopeless, for it was impossible to get men to attend to business without fair remuneration.

Mr. Dobbs scarcely thought the scheme would work, not only for want of pay but on account of the numerous petty jealousies which would arise between those who belonged to the Board and those who did not. They would be in a more invidious position than an authorised servant of the Government, Then there was the evil of elections of the commissioners, added to all the other elections of the country. In towns it would be constantly, a dodge to get in, to promise that such and such a road should be made; and the partizans of one street .would be up in arms against the partizans of another, but once in office the apathy described by the previous speaker would come over them for want of pay. He would be sorry to oppose the bill if this "were the only way in which public works could be made; but he was of opinion, judging from his own neighbourhood, that simply some officer'like a clerk of the works should be appointed in each district to take charge of the works laid out by the engineer. He would mention another difficulty, rather a serious one, to which this scheme was liable, namely, the difficulty of getting together a Board at all in some places.

Mr. Thomson not only agreed to the objections urged by the.previous speakers, but would mention a more important one; that was, that it was simply a means of throwing off responsibility from the Government. This seemed to be a favourite system of theirs: first they wanted to throw the responsibility of appointing an inspector of sheep upon the stockowners; and now they wanted to throw the management of the public works upon public boards who were hi no shape or form responsible. This system was a very different one from that laid down in theory by the ministry when they took office, and talked about 'Responsible Government.'

Mr. Davis thought the three previous speakers had mistaken the intention of the measure, which was simply to create a means of carrying out authorized expenditure. Something of this kind was very much wanted in the towns; for instance, the town of Lyttelton was in many respects in a most deplorable plight as to its streets, drainage, &c, because the Engineer could not or would not pay it proper attention. And if the duties were to be done by any one but the Engineer, who would be so fully cognizant of the wants and requirements of the place, and so anxious to have the works carried out properly, as those selected from the inhabitants themselves? He was opposed to the movement for a Municipal Board, but he knew that something of the kind was necessary. He could not understand the objection about men not being willing to perform the duties without remuneration, for he was persuaded that in any town men with sufficient public spirit would be found to attend to the affairs of the community. He thought the movement of the Government a good one, and that its working would give satisfaction.

Mr. Bishop opposed the bill as one injurious to the comfort of the residents in any district where it might be brought into operation. The place would be always in a fume with petty elections, always in confusion with this man going out and that man coming in. What possible reason was there for the measure, except to supersede the duties of the Engineer? Jf that officer was incapable, dismiss him; but if the only fault was that he had not sufficient strength give him help in his department. As to the details of the bill, they were aggravating and harrowing to read; if he was to go into the consideration of the offensive passages he would take up the whole evening. The general tendency of the bill was to raise the i>ower of the Superintendent, by allowing him to do this and that through these Boards "if he shall think

fit" entirely taking away responsibility. Then there was a novel system of keeping accounts; payments were to be made first and aftervvard. audited, a system as contrary to good b»«no88 principles as could be devised. He could not but look with horror to the future—such work to get the board constituted—such perpetual excitement—such turmoil and vexation, liut he would ask practically, how would boards deal with contracts, so difficult to manage that at the present moment there was combination instead of competition among workmen on the public works throughout the province? Better drop this bill and give plenty of assistance to the engineer; let him have, for instance, two or three surveyors, and a clerk of the works in each locality. Mr. Ross was in a difficulty as to the board s duties; would they be to execute the works or only to superintend? They would not be engineers themselves but would have to employ some one who was. They would simply give orders to a staff who would perform the works. This staff would be then an addition to the present strength of the public works staff in the province, and might as cheaply be placed upon the department at once. Then, would the Council grant a sum of money for each particular job, thus controlling the action of the board; or in a lump sura, to be spent as the board should choose? Or would the board be called in to advise the Council while the votes were being considered?

Mr. Ollivier thought that not sufficient attention had been paid to the bill by those who objected to it. There was no additional power given to the Superintendent, nor any taken away from the Council which would still be the fountain of all money supplies, and exercise a full control as formerly. The simple object was to supply a great want. The Engineer could not be in everyplace at the same time; and now that public works were becoming so extensive the time was come for placing particular portions under competent surveillance; and who so competent as those on the spot? The first hon. gentleman who had spoken against the bill (Mr. Packer), had used as his argument that men would not work unless they were paid. That gentleman was himself a striking instance to the contrary; for he was always in his place in that house, giving his time and trouble for the welfare of his constituents without a thought of remuneration. That gentleman should give others credit for disinterestedness as well as himself; others might find some honour result from performance of public duties as well as he. He (Mr. O.) would again explain the real provisions of the measure which he had done once or twice before. [The hon. gentleman here went into the various clauses at some length.]

The question was then put and a division taken.

Ayes: Messrs. Ward, Davis, Fooks, Cass, Duncan, Ollivier.—6.

Noes: Messrs. Thomson, Packer, Ross, White, Rhodes, Bishop, Miln, Dobbs.—B. The second reading was accordingly refused. Several notices of motion were then given, among which Mr. Ollivier announced that on Tuesday, he would move the consideration of the reply to the address, take several Bills in committee, and explain the course which the Government would take on public works.

The Council then adjourned till Tuesday next at the usual hour.